Vickie78 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited)  Our British Passports are arriving this week! Hooray! But...  Considering we are moving to the UK permanently (me going back/kids because British by descent and I have then 100% of the time/dad agrees to us going) do I need to get the kids their extremely expensive Australian Passports just to leave ? Or will our British ones suffice? Given it's one way. Now I have called both the Australian Passport Office (after reading confusing stuff online)  who said "It should (should? Should they not know the actual answer?) be ok to LEAVE Australia on British Passports, as long as no Court Orders etc blah re: kids (there is not, I do have a Letter signed by their Father stating A) He was aware I applied for BPP and B Allowing me to take kids to UK permanently) but to call Immigration and check, she then rambled number and hung up. I did call Immigration, explained scenario (I'm PR, Dad is citizen by birth, they are citizens by birth) again all I got was SHOULD be ok to LEAVE on foreign passport but MAY be asked Questions and of course can't return without RRV (I said at least 10 x not coming back) he was quite a grumpy chap, and APP for them (again said not coming back) .. I'm befuddled how 2 x Government departments can not give me an actual answer.. (Even the websites switch between must and should.. ugh) Given we will have British Passports/Letter from Dad/Birth Certificates and ONE WAY Plane tickets etc am I overthinking it? (Probably, a bad habit of mine). Checked with Airline too, they just require British PP as one way tickets for travel docs (but will have all other stuff on me just in case).  Yes I know there is a slim (relationship not great with their dad/no family here) possibility my kids will want to come to Aus when they are adults (definitely not in the next 5 yrs how long a PP would be valid at their age), but they can just apply then. I however am definitely NOT coming back, nor is my Mother (also travelling with us) . Oh and my other scratch head moment is because I came here in 1993 on Mums passport(no kids ones then), PR Visa with my name on it on her old Passport the sticker (still have that passport, she has new PP) do we need to add both our new PP numbers to this thing called VEVO? I assume I need proof of being allowed to stay in Aus all this time, or that will be the questions when I attempt to leave I imagine? Which won't be linked to my brand new PP currently as this is my first British PP since moving here. I think I need a drink >.< lol Ty  Edited October 20, 2019 by Vickie78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I'm no expert but I really don't think you need to worry about getting Aussie passports for your children.  Stop worrying - have that drink.  Someone else will be along soon to help with your PP/VEVO thing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 Thanks  Bit early still for a drink. DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 There is a legal requirement that Australian citizens enter and leave on Australian passports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaundennis Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 You will save your self stress and worry by getting the passports. It makes life easier, these things are always significantly harder to resolve out of the country. The main issue you will have is when you try to return to Australia the Non aus passport won't have a valid visa attached so the airline may not let you board and/or you will have a long anxious wait while they confirm your citizenship. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-australia/traveling-as-a-dual-citizen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 hours ago, shaundennis said: You will save your self stress and worry by getting the passports. It makes life easier, these things are always significantly harder to resolve out of the country.  The main issue you will have is when you try to return to Australia the Non aus passport won't have a valid visa attached so the airline may not let you board and/or you will have a long anxious wait while they confirm your citizenship. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-australia/traveling-as-a-dual-citizen Vickie  and her family are moving to the UK permanently so do her children really need Australian passports?  If her children do want to come back to Australia in the years ahead they will have plenty of time to sort out Aussie passports  ....................  or am I missing something here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaundennis Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 No not at all, it will just be more difficult to get a passport while in the UK i.e. will involve visiting embassy's etc. The process to renew a passport is a lot easier than the application for a new one. It also protects them from any changes in legislation in the future with regards to criteria for citizenship/passports.  1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, shaundennis said: No not at all, it will just be more difficult to get a passport while in the UK i.e. will involve visiting embassy's etc. The process to renew a passport is a lot easier than the application for a new one. It also protects them from any changes in legislation in the future with regards to criteria for citizenship/passports.  That's what I thought regarding coming back, but it is highly unlikely they will. I'm not going into full personal details here, but they seriously don't have a bond/good relationship with their dad so I wouldn't foresee them wanting to come to Australia, definitely not to see him, a Holiday perhaps who knows, but for the time being spending another $400+ dollars just to get 2 x kids passports just to leave seems ridiculous to me, when I have just forked out over $600 for 3 British passports for a one way trip.  Edited October 21, 2019 by Vickie78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 On 21/10/2019 at 16:15, shaundennis said: No not at all, it will just be more difficult to get a passport while in the UK i.e. will involve visiting embassy's etc. The process to renew a passport is a lot easier than the application for a new one. It also protects them from any changes in legislation in the future with regards to criteria for citizenship/passports.  Sounds like they are already Australian citizens. The Australian policy/law is you must leave and enter Australia on an Australian passport if you are a citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Parley said: Sounds like they are already Australian citizens. The Australian policy/law is you must leave and enter Australia on an Australian passport if you are a citizen. It’s policy but I think they might have a hard time enforcing it if a person has a passport (the clue is on the name there) of a different country. What are they going to do except give you the third degree and tell you not to do it again as you stagger off to the plane. However, ever the coward, I would most likely suck it up and fork out for the Aussie passports, it’ll be a hell of a lot easier than getting them in Uk, not to mention considerably cheaper!! There is a thread here for people who’ve had it happen https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/7987/leaving-australia-on-a-foreign-passport Edited October 23, 2019 by Quoll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinbjulieb Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 We all got Australian passports to come back on holiday in 2016 (Citizens since 2011 but never got passports) and they wouldn’t scan at the check in desk, luckily we had our British ones with us!! When we left for good in 2017 we came out on our British ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Quoll said: It’s policy but I think they might have a hard time enforcing it if a person has a passport (the clue is on the name there) of a different country. What are they going to do except give you the third degree and tell you not to do it again as you stagger off to the plane. However, ever the coward, I would most likely suck it up and fork out for the Aussie passports, it’ll be a hell of a lot easier than getting them in Uk, not to mention considerably cheaper!! There is a thread here for people who’ve had it happen https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/7987/leaving-australia-on-a-foreign-passport They could stop you from boarding. They will know you are Australian citizrns. Don't know how, but I can't get evisas for my kids, because the system knows they are Australian. I guess you take your chances, and hope you don't get a jobsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, newjez said: They could stop you from boarding. They will know you are Australian citizrns. Don't know how, but I can't get evisas for my kids, because the system knows they are Australian. I guess you take your chances, and hope you don't get a jobsworth. My understanding is that yes if your destination is Australia, which makes sense as Airline can only take people to a country they have a visa or citizenship for, if not the risk a fine. That's why I asked as we are going one way, we are British Citizens, going to the UK on a one way plane ticket to the UK. Seems bonkers to me, that my kids who are only Aussie by birth, would need to buy a passport just to leave Australia. Both the Passport Office and Immigration did say it should be ok too, so it can't be that strict.. immi just mentioned that probably get questioned. Didn't actually say no you cannot leave, as said no court orders, plus I have the letter from their dad allowing me to to take them etc.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Vickie78 said: My understanding is that yes if your destination is Australia, which makes sense as Airline can only take people to a country they have a visa or citizenship for, if not the risk a fine. That's why I asked as we are going one way, we are British Citizens, going to the UK on a one way plane ticket to the UK. Seems bonkers to me, that my kids who are only Aussie by birth, would need to buy a passport just to leave Australia. Both the Passport Office and Immigration did say it should be ok too, so it can't be that strict.. immi just mentioned that probably get questioned. Didn't actually say no you cannot leave, as said no court orders, plus I have the letter from their dad allowing me to to take them etc.  The airline will be fine with you checking in using British passports. The airline just has to be sure the destination country will accept you, and obviously the UK will accept you, travelling on British passports. Its the Immigration officers that will give you a hard time as you leave Australia, expect to be treated like a wicked schoolchild. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, Nemesis said: The airline will be fine with you checking in using British passports. The airline just has to be sure the destination country will accept you, and obviously the UK will accept you, travelling on British passports. Its the Immigration officers that will give you a hard time as you leave Australia, expect to be treated like a wicked schoolchild. LOL. If they are anything like the show Border Security here in Aus, I'll be well prepared, hell even the bloke on the Phone was a grumpy git. Passport office lady was nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Martinbjulieb said: We all got Australian passports to come back on holiday in 2016 (Citizens since 2011 but never got passports) and they wouldn’t scan at the check in desk, luckily we had our British ones with us!! When we left for good in 2017 we came out on our British ones. Did you get the third degree when you left in 2017? (Did you have Aussie passports then too?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, Nemesis said: Its the Immigration officers that will give you a hard time as you leave Australia, expect to be treated like a wicked schoolchild. LOL if they can speak English! The lady who had a right to at me was barely understandable and she had a real attitude on her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Quoll said: LOL if they can speak English! The lady who had a right to at me was barely understandable and she had a real attitude on her! Ugh  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Regarding the letter from their dad.  If you get a jobsworth, this will be checked.  Better that you get a signed affidavit witnessed by a lawyer. To be fair some people do take children without permission and anyone can write a letter and sign it as the father. Turn up in plenty of time to sort out any issues so you don’t miss your flight.   1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, rammygirl said: Regarding the letter from their dad.  If you get a jobsworth, this will be checked.  Better that you get a signed affidavit witnessed by a lawyer. To be fair some people do take children without permission and anyone can write a letter and sign it as the father. Turn up in plenty of time to sort out any issues so you don’t miss your flight.   Don't need all that, already checked. A letter is fine (It was also accepted by HMPO which I asked as well before applying, and they actually kept that for their records and didn;t send it back with all other original docs)  Aussie Passports require a letter also If both Parents agree/no court orders. If there were Court Orders then I'd have to go to Court to get them to allow me.  If they want to call him when we leave, so be it, it's all legit, we both split amicably and I have the kids 100% of the time. Edited October 24, 2019 by Vickie78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) Interesting, Just read this *Deleted* Incorrect Edited October 24, 2019 by Vickie78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 hours ago, rammygirl said: Regarding the letter from their dad.  If you get a jobsworth, this will be checked.  Better that you get a signed affidavit witnessed by a lawyer. To be fair some people do take children without permission and anyone can write a letter and sign it as the father. Turn up in plenty of time to sort out any issues so you don’t miss your flight.   Funny how we call someone who is following the law a jobsworth. That jobsworth could be the one person preventing a child being abducted (not in this case obviously). Personally I'm happy if our Border Security staff follow the law strictly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Called APO again, they just said Dad needs to sign application as well. I asked do I need a letter of consent as website says 'Written consent' she said no, signing is giving consent. Why can't they make their website consistent with advice on phone? Would save a lot of damn headaches. HMPO did require a letter, which was accepted and they have kept for their records so that's fine. Also I don't understand why Australia requires you to leave on Aussie passport when everywhere else states you must leave and return on the same passport, so people only going one way and not returning, would have their passport stamped on exit no? So if i get the kids Aussie passports, they leave on those and mine British as I'm only PR , mine will have a stamp all good, but theirs will be in Aus passport, and when we get to UK won't the UK be like umm where is your exit stamp on the kids British passports? *Confuzzled* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyNook Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) But passports don't get stamped anywhere these days. Leaving Australia (well, leaving from Sydney airport anyway) using an Australian passport is totally automated. Your passport is scanned by a machine, you look at a machine, the system verifies it's you and it lets you out. You don't get to speak to anyone, and no-one stamps your passport.  All new British passports are machine-readable nowadays so you - as a PR holder - would go through the same procedure as your kids. Scan the passport, look at the machine, system verifies it's you and it lets you go. No people to talk to, no stamps in passports. And UK immigration won't give a rats that your kids won't have an Australian exit stamp in their british passports. Millions of people have dual nationalities and use multiple passports.  It's not an issue.   Edited October 24, 2019 by NickyNook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie78 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 8 hours ago, NickyNook said: But passports don't get stamped anywhere these days. Leaving Australia (well, leaving from Sydney airport anyway) using an Australian passport is totally automated. Your passport is scanned by a machine, you look at a machine, the system verifies it's you and it lets you out. You don't get to speak to anyone, and no-one stamps your passport.  All new British passports are machine-readable nowadays so you - as a PR holder - would go through the same procedure as your kids. Scan the passport, look at the machine, system verifies it's you and it lets you go. No people to talk to, no stamps in passports. And UK immigration won't give a rats that your kids won't have an Australian exit stamp in their british passports. Millions of people have dual nationalities and use multiple passports.  It's not an issue.   Oh ok, you can tell I haven't travelled international since coming to Australia LOL. Also I thought I read kids couldn't use the smart gates  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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