So Brexit now needs parliamentary approval?

[newjez]

 

Okay.

when the greens hijacked the Australian senate, I don't think I would call that democracy

[amibovered]

Tasty

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-08/why-chlorine-chicken-from-america-inspires-dread-in-europe

 

Yuk, lucky they don't put chlorine in the tap water, oh wait.

[amibovered]

when the greens hijacked the Australian senate, I don't think I would call that democracy

Nutters mate.

[Skani]

when the greens hijacked the Australian senate, I don't think I would call that democracy

 

When was that?

[BacktoDemocracy]

Tasty

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-08/why-chlorine-chicken-from-america-inspires-dread-in-europe

 

I did highlight this as an issue earlier, have you looked at beef production, massive use of growth hormones and last resort anti biotics

[newjez]

 

Yuk, lucky they don't put chlorine in the tap water, oh wait.

deep breath and count to ten. It is not the fact that they use chlorine that is the major problem. Although obviously to clean a chicken of salmonella you would need significant concentration. It's the fact that their chickens are full of salmonella due to poor hygiene. Washing with chlorine only cleans the outside. Europe has gone a long way in removing salmonella from poultry.

[Gbye grey sky]

I did highlight this as an issue earlier, have you looked at beef production, massive use of growth hormones and last resort anti biotics

 

All of these things are set to get much much worse as Trump sets about his promise of abolishing most regulations (75% in his words) and shutting down government departments which oversee regulation.

 

And bear in mind this is the country that the UK are prioritising a trade agreement with. Opening the market to the USA will both wipe out British agriculture and close the door on EU export of foodstuffs, processed or otherwise.

[Fisher1]

And to go back to the original question ... Yes, it does!

[newjez]

So, instead of being governed by the EU we will be controlled by the USA. That's sovereign that is.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/25/theresa-may-america-britain-will-lead-together-brexit-election/

[amibovered]

So, instead of being governed by the EU we will be controlled by the USA. That's sovereign that is.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/25/theresa-may-america-britain-will-lead-together-brexit-election/

Controlled how exactly?

[amibovered]

deep breath and count to ten. It is not the fact that they use chlorine that is the major problem. Although obviously to clean a chicken of salmonella you would need significant concentration. It's the fact that their chickens are full of salmonella due to poor hygiene. Washing with chlorine only cleans the outside. Europe has gone a long way in removing salmonella from poultry.

 

There, there, don't panic, nobody will be forced to eat any American food, unless they want to.

[VERYSTORMY]

Erm, people do understand that we already trade a lot with the USA? The USA is the single biggest country for UK exports and it is the third biggest for UK imports. At the moment, the USA has been importing meat into the UK for many years - it is an approved EU nation for supply. But, the UK has not been able to supply meat to the USA and a trade deal would allow that. A big potential growth for British farmers

http://www.imta-uk.org/import-export/importing/countries-approved-to-export-to-the-eu

[BacktoDemocracy]

Erm, people do understand that we already trade a lot with the USA? The USA is the single biggest country for UK exports and it is the third biggest for UK imports. At the moment, the USA has been importing meat into the UK for many years - it is an approved EU nation for supply. But, the UK has not been able to supply meat to the USA and a trade deal would allow that. A big potential growth for British farmers

http://www.imta-uk.org/import-export/importing/countries-approved-to-export-to-the-eu

Yes but under EU regulations the meat exported to the EU has to be hormone free making it too expensive for the USA to produce for the EU, Trump wants to remove that regulation which will mean they can undercut our farmers and the EU, once that meat gets into our food chain we will not be able to export any of our meat products fresh or processed to the EU because of their regulations banning meat from animals fed growth hormones.

And Theresa May has promised a bonfire of EU regs, growth hormones can be present in meat as can anti biotics so who's for becoming a vegan then.

[BacktoDemocracy]

There, there, don't panic, nobody will be forced to eat any American food, unless they want to.

The USA has no recording system for deaths attributable to food poisoning organisms such as chyilobacter , sorry for the spelling, a bacteria which lives in the chickens gut and contaminates the chicken meat during killing and gutting, it is present in about 65% of UK supermarket chicken, if my memory is ok I believe there were about 12 deaths associated with this bacterial infection in recent years and a substantial number of people seriously ill from it, I have not heard of any chicken producer here suggesting dipping chicken carcases in chlorine, they seem to be looking at momentary blast freezing as low temperature kills the bacteria.

I am guessing that for chlorine wash to be effective it would be at a higher concentration than tap water and would seem to indicate sloppy practice in their factories covered up by the chlorine treatment.

[VERYSTORMY]

Yes but under EU regulations the meat exported to the EU has to be hormone free making it too expensive for the USA to produce for the EU, Trump wants to remove that regulation which will mean they can undercut our farmers and the EU, once that meat gets into our food chain we will not be able to export any of our meat products fresh or processed to the EU because of their regulations banning meat from animals fed growth hormones.

And Theresa May has promised a bonfire of EU regs, growth hormones can be present in meat as can anti biotics so who's for becoming a vegan then.

 

There has been no mention of scrapping these regs, in fact far from it, May has suggested they will be incorporated in to UK law. The only ones mentioned for a bonfire are those relating to British farmers and CAP. In fact in November the government specifically announced that the UK would maintain bans on growth hormones after Brexit. Conversely, the EU could be forced to lift the ban via TTIP.

[BacktoDemocracy]

There has been no mention of scrapping these regs, in fact far from it, May has suggested they will be incorporated in to UK law. The only ones mentioned for a bonfire are those relating to British farmers and CAP. In fact in November the government specifically announced that the UK would maintain bans on growth hormones after Brexit. Conversely, the EU could be forced to lift the ban via TTIP.

 

And where are we going to be outside of the EU and desperate for trade agreements, how long are we going to resist, do a deal on hormone fed meat or wait and do a deal with India and agree to free up immigration for them as part of a trade deal, which one do the Tories choose with Farage snapping at their heels

[VERYSTORMY]

And where are we going to be outside of the EU and desperate for trade agreements, how long are we going to resist, do a deal on hormone fed meat or wait and do a deal with India and agree to free up immigration for them as part of a trade deal, which one do the Tories choose with Farage snapping at their heels

 

You do understand that the majority of the world, for example Australia, are not in the EU and have been able to put together agreements that are not causing them Armageddon?

 

With the USA, personally, I don't think they will be that interested in increasing exports of US meat as we would still be a fairly small market. My guess is it will center around tech, pharma and one or two other industries with a potential allowance for us to export meat to the USA.

 

But, we are all just speculating.

 

With regard India, I think it is very unlikely there will be any relaxation on migration as it is just too much a hot topic. Personally, I wouldn't like to see any trade deal with them as doing trade deals with economies that are less developed is a bad idea and I don't think it would be in our interests

[BacktoDemocracy]

You do understand that the majority of the world, for example Australia, are not in the EU and have been able to put together agreements that are not causing them Armageddon?

 

With the USA, personally, I don't think they will be that interested in increasing exports of US meat as we would still be a fairly small market. My guess is it will center around tech, pharma and one or two other industries with a potential allowance for us to export meat to the USA.

 

But, we are all just speculating.

 

With regard India, I think it is very unlikely there will be any relaxation on migration as it is just too much a hot topic. Personally, I wouldn't like to see any trade deal with them as doing trade deals with economies that are less developed is a bad idea and I don't think it would be in our interests

 

India has a vast population with a potential growth in its middle class booming for the next 20 years,it is taking the same trajectory as China just 15 years behind it, I would think that penetrating its market would be the jewel in the crown for us, but its growing population is going to want access to our market and that is going to be the downside to any trade treaty with a market that will benefit us, that is the reality that nobody had the b*lls to say in the referendum but is now becoming clearer, so we might as well have sucked up the east Europeans as have the problems created by the same number from the Indian sub continent.

 

And all of that will, as you say, become a issue because Trump may want a trade deal but with his protectionist views it may be too one sided for even May to consider it.

 

The problem that we are going to have is that we cannot spend 5,6,7 years squabbling over the fine detail of a treaty, we are going to be in the position of take or leave it and that is something that the likes of Duncan Smith are in complete denial about, strutting around like a puffed up Peacock thinking he's Disraeli and he'll send a couple of gunboats up the Danube"they don't ike it up 'em Mr Mainwaring" and that 'll sort it all out.

Edited January 26, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy

[VERYSTORMY]

India has a vast population with a potential growth in its middle class booming for the next 20 years,it is taking the same trajectory as China just 15 years behind it, I would think that penetrating its market would be the jewel in the crown for us, but its growing population is going to want access to our market and that is going to be the downside to any trade treaty with a market that will benefit us, that is the reality that nobody had the b*lls to say in the referendum but is now becoming clearer, so we might as well have sucked up the east Europeans as have the problems created by the same number from the Indian sub continent.

 

And all of that will, as you say, become a issue because Trump may want a trade deal but with his protectionist views it may be too one sided for even May to consider it.

 

The problem that we are going to have is that we cannot spend 5,6,7 years squabbling over the fine detail of a treaty, we are going to be in the position of take or leave it and that is something that the likes of Duncan Smith are in complete denial about, strutting around like a puffed up Peacock thinking he's Disraeli and he'll send a couple of gunboats up the Danube"they don't ike it up 'em Mr Mainwaring" and that 'll sort it all out.

 

I have stated many times that I would prefer no trade deals and to rely on WTO instead.

 

India is a classic example of why. Yes, it has a growing middle class. But the vast majority are in poverty. So, the vast majority are not going to be buying our goods. On the flip side, that massive population living in poverty means they can greatly out compete us on price. We have of course already seen this - Leicester used to be a massive textile center but now largely gone as production has moved to India / Bangladesh because it can be done so much cheaper.

[Gbye grey sky]

I have stated many times that I would prefer no trade deals and to rely on WTO instead.

 

India is a classic example of why. Yes, it has a growing middle class. But the vast majority are in poverty. So, the vast majority are not going to be buying our goods. On the flip side, that massive population living in poverty means they can greatly out compete us on price. We have of course already seen this - Leicester used to be a massive textile center but now largely gone as production has moved to India / Bangladesh because it can be done so much cheaper.

 

Presumaby you would favour a trade deal of some type with the EU though in the long run. UK-based buinesses will find increasing problems with exporting to the EU otherwise. Not because of tariffs but due to standardisation and regulatory issues.

[newjez]

Erm, people do understand that we already trade a lot with the USA? The USA is the single biggest country for UK exports and it is the third biggest for UK imports. At the moment, the USA has been importing meat into the UK for many years - it is an approved EU nation for supply. But, the UK has not been able to supply meat to the USA and a trade deal would allow that. A big potential growth for British farmers

http://www.imta-uk.org/import-export/importing/countries-approved-to-export-to-the-eu

never seen food stamped from the USA, other than whiskey and Hershey.

[newjez]

You do understand that the majority of the world, for example Australia, are not in the EU and have been able to put together agreements that are not causing them Armageddon?

 

With the USA, personally, I don't think they will be that interested in increasing exports of US meat as we would still be a fairly small market. My guess is it will center around tech, pharma and one or two other industries with a potential allowance for us to export meat to the USA.

 

But, we are all just speculating.

 

With regard India, I think it is very unlikely there will be any relaxation on migration as it is just too much a hot topic. Personally, I wouldn't like to see any trade deal with them as doing trade deals with economies that are less developed is a bad idea and I don't think it would be in our interests

The problem is the limited time frame. I have no problems with the leaving, but you need agreements in place, and that takes time, and necessitates a transition.

[newjez]

I have stated many times that I would prefer no trade deals and to rely on WTO instead.

 

India is a classic example of why. Yes, it has a growing middle class. But the vast majority are in poverty. So, the vast majority are not going to be buying our goods. On the flip side, that massive population living in poverty means they can greatly out compete us on price. We have of course already seen this - Leicester used to be a massive textile center but now largely gone as production has moved to India / Bangladesh because it can be done so much cheaper.

would you like to see us producing textiles in Leicester again?

[newjez]

Thin edge of the wedge

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-donald-trump-nhs-us-trade-deal-brexit-torture-a7548156.html

[newjez]

http://www.euractiv.com/section/trade-society/news/post-brexit-trade-deal-with-trump-will-take-years-not-days-warns-former-us-ambassador-to-eu/