Paul1Perth Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Good question. People with ths guys kind of record should be in jail, not out on bail. Lock them up until they are found not guilty, if tey are innocent. People dead, a cop shot in the face, other hostages shot and injured all because we are not tough enough on criminals. They could go around tomorrow and arrest lots of people with the same sort of record as this guy, out on bail. Will they do it though? especially if they are from the same sort of background, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one writing hateful stuff the the dead soldiers families. Do they now go and round them all up and lock them up, just in case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfromdublin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yeah, lock em all up! Anyone who has written hateful letters, anyone who has been violent to their spouse and anyone accused of anything! This approach has been tried and it has failed repeatedly and miserably. Do you know what would be a good approach? Recognising that some people are mentally ill and/or evil and that sometimes bad **** happens. A man was shot trying to attack a cop in Brisbane the other night after a domestic incident. Do we turn around after that and say that he should have been in prison because he had a history of shouting at his wife?? Should we jail every person who's had a speeding fine, because one day they might kill someone on the roads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm sure the police that brought the charges will be feeling sick right now that he wasn't behind bars. I'm pretty sure they will feel let down by the system... The police? I would imagine the victims and their relatives will be feeling rather sicker... I'm not sure the security services have entirely covered themselves in glory in their handling of the siege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The police? I would imagine the victims and their relatives will be feeling rather sicker... I'm not sure the security services have entirely covered themselves in glory in their handling of the siege. Like I said, time for the blame game. I don't know what else the security services and the police could have done to make the outcome better. The guy who is being branded a hero at the moment might have kicked the whole thing off. Who knows if he had just sat there and done nothing for a few hours more they might have all got out. I hope I'm wrong about that and I really hope the guy is a hero and recognised that something was going to happen anyway. Whether we ever get the whole truth about how it went down is another matter and quite honestly I don't think we need to know. Let the guy be a hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yeah, lock em all up! Anyone who has written hateful letters, anyone who has been violent to their spouse and anyone accused of anything! This approach has been tried and it has failed repeatedly and miserably. Do you know what would be a good approach? Recognising that some people are mentally ill and/or evil and that sometimes bad **** happens. A man was shot trying to attack a cop in Brisbane the other night after a domestic incident. Do we turn around after that and say that he should have been in prison because he had a history of shouting at his wife?? Should we jail every person who's had a speeding fine, because one day they might kill someone on the roads? No but someone who has threatened murder or been charged in relation to a murder, like this man should be behind bars. Not on bail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 To be fair PC, he was accused as an accessory and the magistrate stated the case against him was very weak. Should the mere accusation of serious wrong doing mean you are locked up? And before anyone jumps on me - I am not condoning what this guy did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It wasn't a 'mere accusation'. He was charged with accessory to murder by the police - an extremely serious crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Which the magistrate said had a weak case and could not justify him being held on bail. His girlfriend was also charged - with a similar weak case - should she be in prison too. Magistrate stated - alibis existed, conflicting witness statements etc etc. He may well have done it, but he had not been tried and the police did not convince the magistrate of the strength of their case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) His girlfriend was charged with murder. (not accessory). The victim (his ex wife) was stabbed multiple times and then set alight. Quite a horrific crime I am sure even you would acknowledge. So yes I hope she is in jail. In April 2013 the young mother was stabbed multiple times, doused with lighter fluid and set afire in an apartment building stairwell. Edited December 16, 2014 by parleycross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Apologies - a report I read said she too was an accessory. She is on bail. Whether this is right or wrong, the magistrate said "Magistrate Darryl Pearce said there were significant flaws in the Crown's case against the pair."It is a weak case,'' he said. Each of the accused had an alibi, the witness statements varied significantly, they didn't have anywhere else to go and they weren't a threat to the public, the magistrate said. "If there is a threat it was to this woman who was murdered.'' My Italics Obviously he was a danger but he was charged with the lesser crime. People can only act on the facts put in front of them. It also looks like he was on bail due to a change in the law On May 20 2014, the NSW state government introduced sweeping changes to bail laws, removing the decades old presumption against bail for a suite of serious offences. the Baird government announced in August that the laws would be toughened. The changes come into effect on January 28, 2015; they include a revised test under which an accused person who is assessed as an "unacceptable risk" will be refused bail. For serious offences, the onus will be on the accused to "show cause" why their detention in custody is not justified. So it looks like the laws were weakened and that is now being reversed. I wonder why they were changed in the 1st place? Edited December 16, 2014 by mrsdawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfromdublin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Here is a lovely article on Tori Johnson, who was the manager of the cafe and one of the hostages killed. He seems like a top bloke: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nsw/sydney-siege-tori-johnsons-act-of-kindness-left-its-mark-on-wollongong-family-20141216-1288hc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Can we change the title of this thread? He wasnt an ISIS terrorist, he only converted to Sunni Islam very recently. He was a sad loaner that wanted/needed attention and tried to wrap it up in the ISIS propaganda. Lets not give airplay to ISIS by attributing this sad and outrageous act to them.The police have been very careful to call this a hostage situation and a criminal one not a terrorist one. We should follow their lead. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/16/sydney-siege-dont-call-man-haron-monis-a-terrorist-it-only-helps-isis Have to agree, nothing links him to ISIS or any other terrorist organisation, looking more like mental health issue the more I read about him, no terrorist organisations social media have even acknowledged him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The police? I would imagine the victims and their relatives will be feeling rather sicker... I'm not sure the security services have entirely covered themselves in glory in their handling of the siege. Very little the security services could have done in a case like this he hasn't any links to terrorists so it is highly unlikely he was under any form of surveillance, not a lot you can do to stop a lone wolf gunman whatever the motive, just look how often people go on killing sprees in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Whether he's a 'lone wolf' or a member of a terrorist group, I can almost guarantee, that the Fairfax Press will be full of letters tomorrow blaming it on either our involvement in The Middle East, or Tony Abbott, probably both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Definitely more of a lone crack-pot, not 'Isis terrorists'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Definitely more of a lone crack-pot, not 'Isis terrorists'. Yeah the ISIS terrorists will be muttering "too soon, too soon" in their beers! For a crackpot he was doing well with 14k Facebook followers. Dont be lulled, this just the beginning. If he'd been serious of course he would have been wearing a suicide vest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Why is this man's wife out on bail when she is accused of murder? Australia is far too soft on crims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maruska Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Went to the memorial /flower area in Martin Place today when going off work. It was eerie in a way, and very touching. There were all kinds of people form all walks of life, just coming together to honor the victims. Yes, I saw Muslims too . They brought flowers just like everyone else. I think their community doesn`t really need to feel unsafe as most people recognize this attack for what it is - a tragic deed by a lone, mentally unstable ISIS wannabee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) They could go around tomorrow and arrest lots of people with the same sort of record as this guy, out on bail. Will they do it though? especially if they are from the same sort of background, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one writing hateful stuff the the dead soldiers families. Do they now go and round them all up and lock them up, just in case? If someone has a criminal history and then is accused, sorry charged, of being an accessory before and after the fact in a murder investigation, then yes, find them and lock them up. Edited December 16, 2014 by wakeboard1980 added sorry charged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 They were both so brave. It's really sad seeing their faces and reading about them. RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach pig Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 How many shots did the cops fire for gods sake. Would not be surprised if they themselves hit a few hostages I mean talk about trigger happy. One or two srategic shots is all it takes to take him down not emptying a clip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiaUK Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 How many shots did the cops fire for gods sake. Would not be surprised if they themselves hit a few hostages I mean talk about trigger happy. One or two strategic shots is all it takes to take him down not emptying a clip Apparently according to the news report I watched late last night the commandos threw in stun grenades to produce all the flashing of light on the news footage and volley of shots to disorientate the gunman, so not all the shots heard would have been the real thing. Andrew Scipione, police commissioner for the state of New South Wales has said that Police are investigating whether the two hostages were killed by the gunman or died in the crossfire. Whatever the outcome of the investigation, it doesn't change the immensely sad fact that two innocent people lost their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) I hardly think criticism of army action is appropriate. Thank God they are there to help us in situations such as this putting themselves in danger too. This was a no win situation. Casualties were inevitable. Thanks to their quick decisive action they were minimised and the majority escaped with their lives. Edited December 16, 2014 by HappyHeart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 How many shots did the cops fire for gods sake. Would not be surprised if they themselves hit a few hostages I mean talk about trigger happy. One or two srategic shots is all it takes to take him down not emptying a clip FFS leave the police alone, a bloody maniac is responsible for the deaths either way, not the police who risk their lives to save others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I feel really sorry for the police sometimes. They risk their life doing things like this and then if something goes wrong they get the blame too. Didn't a police officer get shot in the face too? It's devastating that two innocent people were killed and others injured too but it could have been a lot worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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