Smacking other peoples children

[Guest The Pom Queen]

To be honest I didn't know where to put this thread and it may be better in CTF but as it was in the UK news I thought to add it here first.

I know we had a member on here a while back whose child was smacked in a store, I don't think this is the same case, but really, smacking someones child, I don't even smack my own.

I can't believe the police wouldn't do anything.

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine this, you enter a chemist with your infant son in a pram and your three-year-old daughter beside you. While you are distracted with the sales assistant, your daughter accidentally knocks a bottle of Dettol off the shelf, cracking the lid. EEK! Fluster city, right? Those kind of situations are always awkward and embarrassing. What you need is an older, matriarchal sales woman to step in, smack your child on the bottom and shout, “You naughty girl!” Wait a minute … what?

That is exactly what happened when Angela Cropley entered a Boots Chemist store in the UK. Asking for advice on soy milk after finding out her son was lactose intolerant, Angela was in discussions with the pharmacy assistant on the different brands available when three-year-old Lora, who had been playing some bath toys on the shelf, knocked over the Dettol. Embarrassed, Angela offered to pay for any damage and while she bent down to clean up the mess, the assistant took it upon herself to discipline the child.

 

After the shock wore off, Angela complained to store management who was dismissive, describing the incident as ‘just a tap’. Even the police who were called to the scene claimed they could not take the matter further. A letter of apology was later issued by the store, explaining the staff member’s actions as a gesture of empathy.

[h=3]Some expert advice on disciplining other people’s kids:[/h]We’ve all had experiences where it is very difficult to make that judgement, particularly if your own child is being harassed or bullied by another.

Kidspot’s parenting coach, Dr Justin Coulson, suggests that you shouldn’t ever threaten, hit, or intimidate another person’s child. He stresses that discipline is teaching good ways to act. If a child can be approached and spoken with kindly, and be given appropriate and gentle guidance, it is unlikely that other parents will be offended by our actions.

 

[h=3]What are the laws in Australia when it comes to discipline?[/h]According to the Child Family Community Australia (CFCA) site it is lawful in Australia to use corporal punishment to discipline children as long as the punishment is “reasonable” in the circumstances, especially in regard to :

 

 

• the age of the child;
  
• the method of punishment;
  
• the child’s capacity for reasoning (i.e., whether the child is able to comprehend correction/discipline); and
  
• the harm caused to the child.
  

 

Punishment that is “unreasonable” (e.g., punishment that causes harm to a child that lasts for more than a short period) may be classified as physical abuse and could lead to intervention by police and/or child protection authorities.

[h=3]So, is it ever okay to discipline someone else’s child?[/h]I think to find the answer to this question we need to think about how we would feel if somebody else took it upon themselves to discipline one of ours and how they might go about doing so. When it comes to physical punishment, no, it’s never okay. But if we find ourselves having to intervene with a child who isn’t our own, then remembering Dr Justin’s advice will help.

[Tulip]

If you teach with violence and humiliation, all you will do is teach a child to be violent and humiliate. Never 'okay' in my opinion, and you can shush it away with 'In my day!' and 'I was smacked and it never did *me* any harm' but if we can teach dogs to twirl and sit and pee outdoors, surely we can teach a child without resorting to violence?

 

I was hit as a child and it didn't do me any harm. That doesn't make it ok...

[Tulip]

(Couldn't comment on a sales clerk hurting my child as I don't have any. I realise this is crude but if someone ever took it upon themselves to tell my dog off I would lose my ****. Enough said.)

[Guest Guest66881]

We don't hit our kids so no one else will be, if they did they will be getting a knock on the chin from Mr FISTOFPAUL:wink:

[Xenon4017]

We don't hit our kids so no one else will be, if they did they will be getting a knock on the chin from Mr FISTOFPAUL:wink:

 

Gosh, I can see this thread turning into a hot one.

 

We've got one comment relating bringing up children to training dogs. And now we've got a threat of reciprocal violence to resolve the issue.

[Rupert]

I cannot imagine a situation where I would ever discipline somebody else's child and certainly not smacking, which I don't believe in. I do however give out the occasional "look" to particularly badly behaved ones.

 

:biggrin:

[Kapri]

I don't hit my kids and I would be horrified if someone else hit them.

I was smacked as a child and I remember it as being unjust and humiliating.

My kids have never been smacked and yet they are well behaved and not on course to be out-of-control hooligans.

 

I can understand parents doing it in the heat of the moment during a stressful situation and wouldn't judge others for that if it was a one off, but in my opinion, although smacking may be effective, it does nothing for the relationship and doesn't teach children how to deal with things calmly.

[Lindor]

WTF!!!! I would've knocked her out!

[nic1171]

I'd have gave same 'tap' back!

[JenPen]

I just cannot believe someone would have the audacity to actually smack someone's child that is not their own, no matter what their beliefs are in relation to discipline.

[Lambethlad]

Didn't anyone see the excellent "The Slap" on ABC TV last year. It's about the repercussions following a child being slapped at a backyard BBQ.

Well worth getting a copy from your local ABC shop. Here's the trailer.

 

[flybyknight]

To be honest I didn't know where to put this thread and it may be better in CTF but as it was in the UK news I thought to add it here first.

I know we had a member on here a while back whose child was smacked in a store, I don't think this is the same case, but really, smacking someones child, I don't even smack my own.

I can't believe the police wouldn't do anything.

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine this, you enter a chemist with your infant son in a pram and your three-year-old daughter beside you. While you are distracted with the sales assistant, your daughter accidentally knocks a bottle of Dettol off the shelf, cracking the lid. EEK! Fluster city, right? Those kind of situations are always awkward and embarrassing. What you need is an older, matriarchal sales woman to step in, smack your child on the bottom and shout, “You naughty girl!” Wait a minute … what?

That is exactly what happened when Angela Cropley entered a Boots Chemist store in the UK. Asking for advice on soy milk after finding out her son was lactose intolerant, Angela was in discussions with the pharmacy assistant on the different brands available when three-year-old Lora, who had been playing some bath toys on the shelf, knocked over the Dettol. Embarrassed, Angela offered to pay for any damage and while she bent down to clean up the mess, the assistant took it upon herself to discipline the child.

 

After the shock wore off, Angela complained to store management who was dismissive, describing the incident as ‘just a tap’. Even the police who were called to the scene claimed they could not take the matter further. A letter of apology was later issued by the store, explaining the staff member’s actions as a gesture of empathy.

Some expert advice on disciplining other people’s kids:

 

We’ve all had experiences where it is very difficult to make that judgement, particularly if your own child is being harassed or bullied by another.

Kidspot’s parenting coach, Dr Justin Coulson, suggests that you shouldn’t ever threaten, hit, or intimidate another person’s child. He stresses that discipline is teaching good ways to act. If a child can be approached and spoken with kindly, and be given appropriate and gentle guidance, it is unlikely that other parents will be offended by our actions.

 

What are the laws in Australia when it comes to discipline?

 

According to the Child Family Community Australia (CFCA) site it is lawful in Australia to use corporal punishment to discipline children as long as the punishment is “reasonable” in the circumstances, especially in regard to :

 

 

• the age of the child;

• the method of punishment;

• the child’s capacity for reasoning (i.e., whether the child is able to comprehend correction/discipline); and

• the harm caused to the child.

 

Punishment that is “unreasonable” (e.g., punishment that causes harm to a child that lasts for more than a short period) may be classified as physical abuse and could lead to intervention by police and/or child protection authorities.

So, is it ever okay to discipline someone else’s child?

 

I think to find the answer to this question we need to think about how we would feel if somebody else took it upon themselves to discipline one of ours and how they might go about doing so. When it comes to physical punishment, no, it’s never okay. But if we find ourselves having to intervene with a child who isn’t our own, then remembering Dr Justin’s advice will help.

 

i think if someone in a store hit my child, i would knock them on their ass.

if the police were called i think i would suggest...

their mental age was in question to me.

i feel the punishment is just, as it is the same as they dished out, but scaled for their stature.

they clearly don't have the capacity to reason, as if they did, they wouldn't have struck my child in the first place.

and the black eye will heal

i think that covers all of the legal reasons, i'm not sure it would cover me for the kicking i'd administer while they are on their ass though??

[fifi69]

Didn't anyone see the excellent "The Slap" on ABC TV last year. It's about the repercussions following a child being slapped at a backyard BBQ.

Well worth getting a copy from your local ABC shop. Here's the trailer.

 

 

i watched it in the UK, I enjoyed it. I believe it was based on a book. Giving a slap to a friends child isn't a good idea for sure.

 

i do wish some parents would control their kids better though....especially when they are in my house

[simmo]

I'd like to smack some of the kids parents.

[jodipodi]

In my eyes this is no less of an 'assault' as it would be if an adult hit an adult. Something very similar happened to me/my child when he was very little, it was under different circumstances however and was a knee jerk reaction from a male who had been whacked in the crown jewels by a flying tv remote which my son was weilding- my boy didn't intend to hit him and I'm sure the man in question didn't intend on the immediate slap that followed- he was very apologetic and I believe the disgust he showed at his reaction was enough to make me think it was enough...however I am older, wiser and not as reserved as I was in my younger years. If this happened now he would have gotten a mouthful as I know I would never react like that personally (I am not male though so I'm fortunate enough never to have experienced the wince of a whack in the crown jewels....:arghh:)

 

In this situation I would not be happy with an apology, I'd expect some sort of police response/action. I wouldn't even like the fact a total stranger touched my child never mind raised a hand...I am very wary of social/personal space and am quite aware of the kind of interaction I make with other people's children as I know we don't all have the same views/boundaries. I am a very touchy/huggy/hair ruffling kind of mam but with other people's kids - nope. So to go so shockingly far over that boundary..I just cant comprehend it. I bet the lady feels like screaming out of frustration and rage at the lack of action and I could only imagine the poor kid is traumatised.

[newjez]

I remember ages ago, there were some older girls hogging a swing, while a group of much younger boys with mine included watched. I gave it ten minutes, until I caught the swing and suggested it was time the boys had a go. About half an hour later when we were having lunch I heard a girl cry out- there's the man who stole our swing daddy. Built like a brick outhouse he was, tats and piercings. Looked like he could pull me apart with his little finger. But he let it go thankfully.

[PeterJa]

I cannot imagine a situation where I would ever discipline somebody else's child

 

I do it all the time, often in front of their useless parents. I don't smack my kids or anyone else's, but I treat other people's children how I'd be happy for someone to treat mine. And if kids are behaving badly, and especially when their parents are standing there saying nothing as their child isn't on the receiving end, then it's simple... I discipline them.

 

I'd recommend it. It's good for society.

[Kapri]

I do it all the time, often in front of their useless parents. I don't smack my kids or anyone else's, but I treat other people's children how I'd be happy for someone to treat mine. And if kids are behaving badly, and especially when their parents are standing there saying nothing as their child isn't on the receiving end, then it's simple... I discipline them.

 

I'd recommend it. It's good for society.

 

I agree with this. I would have no problem with another adult telling my kids off if they were genuinely doing something wrong. As long as it was firm but not aggressive then I think it's perfectly acceptable and as you say, good for society.

 

In the UK, my next door neighbour told my son off for knocking on the door and running away. He didn't do it again after that and my neighbour did it in a calm but firm way. I think it was far more effective than if my neighbour had complained to me.

 

Hitting though, is totally unacceptable IMO.

[Xenon4017]

It's weird that discussions on an internet forum are called "threads". It's as if they are meant to intermingle.

 

Here we've got a thread where people staunchly defend the personal space of their children, to the extent of willfully disproportionately assaulting any transgressor. Then there is the thread about the Bulger killing, where people defend capital punishment for minors.

 

I've got the feeling that the story in the OP was written with sympathy for the mother in order to promote a particular agenda. Here's another story that happened a while back.

 

We were at an outdoor swimming pool and my wife saw a (4, maybe 5 year old) child wandering along the side, eyeing up the water and warming to the idea of taking a dip. She noticed that the mother was sat down some metres away eating an ice-cream and chatting, as we all do from time to time. The boy plucked up enough courage and jumped in. He started flailing about and it became clear that he couldn't swim. So my wife got up and pulled him out by the arm. As she set him down the mother looked over. At that moment, from her perspective, my wife had taken hold of her son by the arm and was holding it up. Her son was obviously very distressed at this time and bawling his eyes out. My wife finished putting him down as the mother ran over.

"What do you think you're doing?" she exclaimed. (Not really aggressively, just worried and puzzled)

"Saving your son from drowning while you finish your ice-cream", replied my wife.

The mother saw that her son was wet (she'd forbade him from going in the pool earlier) and understood that nothing untoward had happened. Her reply?

"There's no need to do it like _that_!"

[Que Sera Sera]

I remember the thread it was at our local Woolies and the lady was new to Australia and was asking if it was normal behaviour in Australia. The little girl had had her hand tapped by a little old lady. We said at the time, no it's not normal here either, in her case though she had not actually seen it happen but was told by her other child. It's never ok to smack someone else's child, but I would say there are times when it's ok to chastise them. If you saw kids out on their own doing something naughty or dangerous for example.

[Bobj]

After being cooped up for nine months @#@%$ smacked me on my bum on my first day out...From memory, I cried like a baby and my Mum only smiled.:wink:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[LKC]

I agree that the smack was wrong, but I don't think that there is anything wrong with other people telling children off. I would certainly be happy if one of my friends felt the need to tell one of my children off, and did so.

 

It did strike me that the piece seemed to be written to garner support for the mother of the child, it was certainly told on her side. The reason that the little girl knocked the dettol off the shelf was that she was playing with some of the bath toys on the next shelf. When I take my children shopping, I have always taught them not to touch, because those things belong to the shop. I allow them to help me put things in the basket/trolly, but I wouldn't allow them to play with things. Maybe I am a bit old-fashioned in that regard?

[Wendy Robinson]

There was a similar incident in Perth last year http://www.news.com.au/national-news/western-australia/the-slap-costs-cottesloe-artist-1000/story-fndo4e3y-1226451843883

 

Personally if my children were being brats then I wouldn't mind someone telling them off. However, I would be extremely pissed off if someone took it upon themselves to smack my child. We do not smack our children, and as far as I'm concerned what ever the child/ren are doing violence is never the answer.

[starlight7]

No- children should never be smacked by anyone other than the parent, including teachers. However, telling a child off is sometimes necessary, particularly if they are bullying another child. Teachers do it every day. This child who knocked the dettol over may, for all we know, have done it on purpose. The mother should have been watching that is what mothers are supposed to do, especially in a shop ( the managers of which were pretty stupid having something like dettol that close to the ground)

[Bobbsy]

No stranger should ever slap another's child. Ever.

 

Let me say that, as a parent I believe in spankings as the last deterrent. Note I said spankings, not lashing out in anger and hitting indiscriminately. The vast majority of the time, the mere threat is enough to make the point and improve behaviour--and it certainly produces a far more balanced and better-mannered child than all the time out corners in the world. Yeah, I'm sixty and was brought up this was in the 1950s...and I also brought up my own children (now 30 and 27) that way in the 1980s and early 90s. Those two turned out to be great children--no neuroses, no psychological problems, well mannered in every situation and doing well in their own lives. Suffice to say that our 8 year old afterthought is being raised exactly the same and has won school awards for his manners and helping others. It's worth saying that he's had maybe 2 spankings in his life...the rest of the time all it takes is to start counting and the deterrent works.

 

But that's for parents. Strangers should NOT discipline others' children except maybe in the very unusual circumstance where the child is in physical danger.