Graemsay Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If I could make a suggestion, anyone considering doing a runner to escape debt should check out sources for help first, and try to resolve matters that way. There are various helplines and services, and the Motley Fool has a Dealing With Debt forum which offers advice to those seeking to help themselves. (In particular check out this post by Gostevie and follow up the links about how he turned his life around.) If bad spending or saving habits are part of the problem then the chances are someone will get into trouble again in five or ten years time in Australia, Canada or wherever they end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It seems that the OP is already in australia, if you look at their past posts I think they were supposed to of moved in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidden Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If bad spending or saving habits are part of the problem then the chances are someone will get into trouble again in five or ten years time in Australia, Canada or wherever they end up. Couldn't agree more, burning bridges and running away from the problem isn't going to make it disappear. One day it may catch up with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graemsay Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Couldn't agree more, burning bridges and running away from the problem isn't going to make it disappear. One day it may catch up with you. I was thinking of making the same mistakes again. Incidentally, I'd be interested in hearing the OP's story. From previous posts it sounds as though they sold their house, got screwed over by their relatives, and came to Oz sometime last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Im sure if people had the money to pay it back they would. I know a family who, due to her husband being injured and no longer able to work lived off credit cards, they did their food shopping on them, paid bills on them, then they had to use another credit card to pay the other credit card and it all spiralled out of control, in the end they got in to so much debt he tried to take his life. They ended up doing a runner somewhere in Europe. They struggled still but the wife got a job and with no debt to pay back they managed to start a new life. I haven't been in touch with them since coming to AUS, but I'm afraid in their case it was the best thing for them No doubt they'd be classed as absulte reprobates by those who have a higher "moral stance' than they............but hey? there but for the grace of God 'n all that?????? Wait a mo? we didn't get ourselves into that situation, so anyone who did is a lesser person than I, I kid you not. I'm so feckin' good that I didn't get into debt and it's all down to sound management of my finances and has nothing to do with global economics????:wacko: Avoiding debt is "thieving" dontcha know.................and what's worse.................we all have to pay for it.....................as if prices were to decrease if we didn't?????? :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwolst77 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 WOW this thread has been busy since my last post, and this time I was not vilified for giving out some basic facts regarding OP question, unlike the last time. A couple of points... A. It has cost me nothing to emigrate out here as I have a 457 visa and relocation package (apart from borrowing a bit or extra cash from family to use as a buffer whilst my expenses are repaid) and I know more people here who have had the same type of deal as me, than people who have not. So this assumption that everybody spends gazillions getting here, and if they have that type of money they should be clearing their debts instead is clearly wrong. B. Theft - The UK legal definition is “A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly” C. Answer me this - If you owe someone a sum of money and for some reason you cannot pay it back, by the logic of some people here you are morally in the wrong. But if you go to a court and make yourself bankrupt, that’s all right then? The same sum of money is still owed it has not magically vanished overnight or the creditor has been mysteriously repaid by someone else (well they might have if they taken out credit default insurance). All that is different is you have a piece of paper from a court telling the creditor to “Jog On” D. Don’t confuse morals and business they rarely work hand in hand, let alone meet each other sometimes. Financial institutions do not sit around thinking about how they will sleep at night when they decide to pull the plug on a company or refuse finance to an individual, regardless of the repercussions. Such as family breakdown, homelessness, poverty, putting people in serious debt they cannot get out of (oh the irony), even suicide. They make a business decision in their best interests and no one else’s. I have seen this on a professional level first hand numerous times, they frankly don’t give a s*&t about you, all they want is their money (plus whatever extra they can tag on) as fast as possible. If that means you and your kids suffer then tough luck. That does not mean we should all go out to try and shaft the system. But at least understand how the system works, and stop comparing it to you borrowing a hundred quid from a friend and not paying them back. It is disingenuous to the people asking from help and insulting to those who are trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 how can anyone get in that much debt anyway!!!! I think by the time I was about 10k in debt I would be seriously thinking what I could do to sort it out before it got any worse! Some people are not looking for a way to eventually pay it back they just want not to have to pay it at all! Ah....let me think.....mortgage perhaps???:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErmintrudeMcMoo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Actually, he said Please do think of me as a bad person.... so some of us did Freudian slip. Which maybe proves that the person feels uneasy with what he is considering - oh shock horror perhaps he`s not a dolphin eating fluffy bunny murdering reprobate after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 C. Answer me this - If you owe someone a sum of money and for some reason you cannot pay it back, by the logic of some people here you are morally in the wrong. But if you go to a court and make yourself bankrupt, that’s all right then? The same sum of money is still owed it has not magically vanished overnight or the creditor has been mysteriously repaid by someone else (well they might have if they taken out credit default insurance). All that is different is you have a piece of paper from a court telling the creditor to “Jog On” There is a huge difference IMO, one way is running away and not being accountable to anyone, sticking two fingers at everyone and saying up yours - (I have to say that although i might not call it theft, it is pretty darn close) The other way is allowing an external party to consider the situation and agree a course of action that is the best reasonable thing that can be done in the situation. The outcome may be the same but the process is completely different. NWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 There is a huge difference IMO, one way is running away and not being accountable to anyone, sticking two fingers at everyone and saying up yours - (I have to say that although i might not call it theft, it is pretty darn close) The other way is allowing an external party to consider the situation and agree a course of action that is the best reasonable thing that can be done in the situation. The outcome may be the same but the process is completely different. NWM But there should be more help out there. The family I mentioned earlier tried to get help from the CC companies but they didn't want to know. I would never judge anyone for running from debt because I haven't walked in their shoes. Would I do it myself, at this time I could say no. I don't think anyone should feel so ashamed, scared, worried that they try and take their life, it isn't as though they have murdered anyone, although you would think so after some replies on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 But there should be more help out there. The family I mentioned earlier tried to get help from the CC companies but they didn't want to know. I would never judge anyone for running from debt because I haven't walked in their shoes. Would I do it myself, at this time I could say no. I don't think anyone should feel so ashamed, scared, worried that they try and take their life, it isn't as though they have murdered anyone, although you would think so after some replies on this forum. Please don't think I am judging anyone - I am simply saying that running away may be AN answer but it isn't the RIGHT answer. I think you know I have, for many years, been involved in debt counseling and we have worked with desperate cases and I fully understand the things that drive people to do what they do. I am simply saying that as a society we can't begin to advise that it is (or should be) the answer to run away and not face things. I would say the same thing for people with marriage difficulties (unless abuse was happening), or the same with any issue really. The problem isn't just the big bad banks, it's the way society is beginning to advise how we should deal with any conflict i.e. "sod you, I'm alright Jack". Just imagine what the consequences for the world we live in will be if that becomes our answer! NWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Please don't think I am judging anyone - I am simply saying that running away may be AN answer but it isn't the RIGHT answer. I think you know I have, for many years, been involved in debt counseling and we have worked with desperate cases and I fully understand the things that drive people to do what they do. I am simply saying that as a society we can't begin to advise that it is (or should be) the answer to run away and not face things. I would say the same thing for people with marriage difficulties (unless abuse was happening), or the same with any issue really. The problem isn't just the big bad banks, it's the way society is beginning to advise how we should deal with any conflict i.e. "sod you, I'm alright Jack". Just imagine what the consequences for the world we live in will be if that becomes our answer! NWM I agree with a lot of what you say. I dont think running away is the right answer either if there are other options but the part that annoys me is that some people on here (not you) cant even take a minute to think about what it might be like for the person in this situation. They just instantly jump on them and start calling them a thief etc. Every situation is different. I try not judge because i havent been in this situation but i've saw people close to me go through it. It can happen to anyone. I dont see the point in giving them all this grief, if they're going to do it then they will, no matter what a few strangers think about them. Hopefully the OP will be able to sort something out, even paying a minimum amount that they can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graemsay Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 C. Answer me this - If you owe someone a sum of money and for some reason you cannot pay it back, by the logic of some people here you are morally in the wrong. But if you go to a court and make yourself bankrupt, that’s all right then? The same sum of money is still owed it has not magically vanished overnight or the creditor has been mysteriously repaid by someone else (well they might have if they taken out credit default insurance). All that is different is you have a piece of paper from a court telling the creditor to “Jog On” I think that in some sense both refusing to pay back a loan or bankruptcy are immoral. When you borrow money you're entering into a contract with another party, and in a sense that's a legally binding promise to repay them. Credit is only available to adults, so as I said earlier, we're all big boys and girls and should be willing to bear the consequences of our actions. However, I'd argue that declaring bankruptcy is more moral than absconding. In the former case you're trying to make some amends, and the creditor will probably be paid something, even if it's only pennies in the pound. It's not all black-and-white though. Some of the pay day loans companies charge obscene amounts of interest, and I'm really surprised that the government hasn't regulated the companies out of the market. D. Don’t confuse morals and business they rarely work hand in hand, let alone meet each other sometimes. Financial institutions do not sit around thinking about how they will sleep at night when they decide to pull the plug on a company or refuse finance to an individual, regardless of the repercussions. Such as family breakdown, homelessness, poverty, putting people in serious debt they cannot get out of (oh the irony), even suicide. They make a business decision in their best interests and no one else’s. I have seen this on a professional level first hand numerous times, they frankly don’t give a s*&t about you, all they want is their money (plus whatever extra they can tag on) as fast as possible. If that means you and your kids suffer then tough luck. That does not mean we should all go out to try and shaft the system. But at least understand how the system works, and stop comparing it to you borrowing a hundred quid from a friend and not paying them back. It is disingenuous to the people asking from help and insulting to those who are trying to help. Agreed. I've had business dealings with several organisations who have either sought to rip me off, or ignoring my commercial interests as a way of furthering their own, despite being in a relationship where they were allegedly representing me. That doesn't mean you need to act dishonestly yourself, but you do need to be careful. But a business acting in its own best interests is entirely rational. A bank isn't going to lend money if it thinks that there is a good chance it won't get it back. Unfortunately the financial industry has been over-cautious in recent years, and that has caused real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontePom Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If you read all the posts from start to finish I believe it all to be covered I'm not saying that leaving debts is a good thing But for some it might be their only way to possibly start a new life Committing suicide is another option but who would wish that on anyone But it does happen (I know) Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
familybonesinoz Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 I have only today been able to access the internet, since my original post. WOW!!! I was totally amazed, firstly, by the number of people that viewed my post. One could make an assumption that a small but significant percentage of those have similar concerns. To those people I say "Keep Positive" and definitely DO NOT take on board ANY of the EXTREMELY small minded and bigoted replies. To those of you who sent 'good luck' style messages I say a heartfelt "Thank You". (You know who you are.) To those of you who sent practical advice, links to previous discussions and constructive thoughts I say another enormous heartfelt "Thank You". (You know who you are.) To those of you who asked that others 'not judge' me because life sometimes takes you legs away without warning I say another honest and heartfelt "Thank You" (You know who you are.) To those of you who judged me, from afar, and with the total security of remaining just an anonymous avatar with an small minded opinion I send you my PITY. (You probably don't recognise you're in this group!) I have made mistakes in my life. I believed that everybody makes mistakes along their journey. BUT NOW I KNOW THAT THERE ARE PERFECT PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD. AND THEY ALL HAVE ACCOUNTS ON THIS FORUM!!!! If I were a vengeful, jealous, bitter or just plain nasty SOB then I would surely wish upon those small minded and ignorant individuals that they have to take my journey of the past few years. That they and their family HAVE to take a walk, in MY shoes, along MY path. I would wish upon you, that you witness the sights I have seen or found yourselves in the places that I have been. That your sleep be stolen by worrying thoughts. That daybreak only brings another day of fear and mental stress. That your family be threatened by others and that your house (your only asset) become unsellable because of the actions of a violent and unhinged neighbour. And that when you ask for help (banks et al) you are ignored or told that "all we are interested in is getting our money". But I am NOT a vengeful, jealous, bitter or just plain nasty SOB. I am just a man who loves his family and does what he can to protect and provide for them. A man who makes mistakes, gets back up on his feet and accepts them as the opportunity to learn. I have always thought of myself as a 'pretty good bloke', nothing special just a trier who never gives up. As a husband and father who wants only to provide love and protection to his wife and children. I have always avoided comparing myself, against others, for the fear that that I may get a 'too high' opinion of myself. I am now, in the light of the bigoted comments posted by Perthbum and others, reviewing that self imposed rule. For their nasty, self centered, righteous, small minded almost Evangelistic pontifications has shown me that I am a much better person than I had ever thought I could be. By the way Perthbum I see that you average 14 posts a day! You should consider getting out more and getting a social life beyond the internet. Just an opinion. My old mum taught me that "If you have nothing nice or positive to say then say nothing". There are a few on PIO who would do well to consider that before posting again. But as I wrote earlier 'They' wont recognise that they are in need of this advice. I joined PIO to gather information, gain access to questions I hadn't even considered, share my excitement about being able to give my children an opportunity that money can't buy and hopefully share my 'learned knowledge' with those that followed. I seriously wonder the motives behind some peoples decision to join. I am now, sadly but happily, going to close my PIO account. Goodbye to those of you who give of their knowledge and experience and may your lives be everything you hope for. I will give those pityful and ignorant posters 1 week in which to reply to this post, after all they are all PERFECT! Far better they vent off at me than turn their head towards somebody else and start another tyrannical witch hunt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochie Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 ...lots of ensible stuff...... Well said, that man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Good Luck familybonesinoz. I hope you and your family have a good life in Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 If I were a vengeful, jealous, bitter or just plain nasty SOB then I would surely wish upon those small minded and ignorant individuals that they have to take my journey of the past few years. That they and their family HAVE to take a walk, in MY shoes, along MY path. I would wish upon you, that you witness the sights I have seen or found yourselves in the places that I have been. That your sleep be stolen by worrying thoughts. That daybreak only brings another day of fear and mental stress. That your family be threatened by others and that your house (your only asset) become unsellable because of the actions of a violent and unhinged neighbour. And that when you ask for help (banks et al) you are ignored or told that "all we are interested in is getting our money". Having personally faced much of what you describe over recent years I really do wish you peace in your days ahead. Unless people have walked through the devastation of financial distress then it really is hard for people to understand what it can do to a person. The sleepless nights, the sickness in the stomach, the not wanting to answer the phone or open mail, the self hatred, the depression, the shame etc etc etc. It's a shame you feel the need to close your account on PIO as there are many who have and are still going through what you describe (I actually think Australia still has a shock in store for many people and hasn't seen the worst of things) Anyway - All the best as you work your way though everything. NWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsitallabout Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I had a friend who started his own business, things were good for a while, then recession hit BIG TIME! He really struggled to get back on his feet. The europeans arrived & were undercutting him big time. He couldn't compete with their prices! He went to the banks asked for help. "Lets lend this man more money that will help him" he has assets. The strain got too much for him & he took his own life. His family lost everything as suicide doesn't pay out. His 3 young children will never know their dad. If his was alive today my advice would be to run away start again. I know all you do gooders at there wouldn't agree with that, but I really couldn't give a t**s. The effect this has had on this family is devastating. Having worked for a major finance institute for many years & seeing 1st hand the treatment of people having finance difficulties has certainly changed my opinion & remember everyone this is MY OPINION. The money wasted on bonuses, corporate functions are too stressful to talk about! These companies have a lot to answer for! & so do the goverment for overunning the population. I really wish you & your family well. Please don't delete from PIO we need real people like you on here look at how many people have read your post. You won't be the 1st & you certainly won't be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Julz Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I work for a large AU Collection Agency (I am not a collector though) and we do not contact people outwith AU and NZ to collect their debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I think everyone has sympathy for someone in genuine financial difficulties who is struggling to pay their debts. I am sympathetic too. However I do know that many people spend $15000 to $20000 to emigrate from UK to Australia what with Visas, Flights, Removalists, Start up expenses etc. I don't think it is heartless to question whether that money should be used for this purpose rather than reducing the debt. I am curious how much is being spent on the move here, but I guess it is non of my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graemsay Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Familybonesinoz, I'm really sorry to hear of your situation, and I hope that you can get some sort of resolution in the near future. I'd suggest speaking to your local Citizens Advice Bureau as a first point of call. If they can't help, then they'll point you in the right direction. But I'd reiterate the point that any voluntary agreement is likely to be a lot easier if you have to return. Also, go and speak to your doctor. You sound stressed and depressed, and being referred to a counselling service could be of benefit. Good luck with whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Dont delete your account, most of us would like to help you as much as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmck Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Couldn't agree more, burning bridges and running away from the problem isn't going to make it disappear. One day it may catch up with you. It gets written off. The scare stories are only for the faint hearted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullso Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Theres the proof of of the pudding!!! If you don't know how this can happen then your certainly in no place to judge! never heard of sponsored jobs? Never heard of relocation packages! One of my closest friends moved with a massive debts caused by the fact he lost his job and couldn't get one in the uk. The wages in oz where just enough for them to get by, no money left over to pay back debts. They basically took the chance to provide for them selves in oz, there's no way the uk was going to give the opportunitys they needed to get by. Are you trying to tell me they should put them selves in a worse position in oz, having come from a knightmere in the uk and pay their debts???!!!! Sometimes, you need to cut your losses and start a fresh. And that's that! By leaving their debts behind, they got their fresh start, live a less stressful (money wise) life in oz. they contribute to Ozzie society and pay their bills and taxes according to their ability. youve clearly never been in such an awful place. I really hope you never do. So my stance on this still stands! Wind your neck in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And please be more considerate of other people's feelings. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure you wouldn't like it! JoZ Nice one JoZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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