Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 And where is the money coming to make the move to oz if they cannot pay their debts in the UK? Have you never heard of relocation packages!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Often when I read this kind of thread I can see both sides of the argument - this one is no exception. The problem seems to me that there is in fact a lot of common ground, it's just how people outwork it that the tension lies. Generally speaking, the common ground is as follows: 1) Most of us have at some point borrowed money and therefore we accept that having debt is a normal part of life 2) It seems that most understand that there are circumstances where people through no fault of their own or deliberately can get into the situation where the debt is overwhelming. The point of tension seems to be how different people decide to deal with this when it happens. On the one side there are those who take the view, 'the banks stuffed us so who cares' and on the other there is the view that as a society we should take responsibility for our own choices and not blame others. For me the question is about integrity, now I know in stating that I open myself up to people saying 'well the banks didn't have integrity so why should I?' however the problem with that argument is that we will always up with chaos and 'the lowest common denominator' if no one is willing to stand in their own integrity or use other peoples poor behaviour for a reason in lowering their own. For me, running away is never the answer in any circumstance. As a society we have to raise the moral standard and accept our responsibility in any situation. In the case of debt, the courts are actually very fair, they never ask people to pay more than they can afford or if they can see that the person has no money then they will accept them going bankrupt. Society in the Uk has decided that bankruptcy court is the way that people can legitimately face up to their debt - in most cases people can be free of all their debt in one year and then start afresh. So when people run away from debt they are actually saying "stuff you society! I'm not going to face up to my issues in the way you have decided is best, I'm going to try to get away with things". A previous poster stated that debt to a person is different to an organisation - sorry but I don't agree. Debt to the banks means that individuals suffer, not the so-called fat cats. The people who suffer are the ordinary employees who lose their jobs, the pensioners whose shares are invested in the banks or the general person on the street whose taxes have to go up to bail the banks out. On the whole I won't judge a person for how they got into debt but I will certainly challenge people who do not walk in integrity when they try to get out of it. I don't want to live in a society where the general attitude is "as long as I'm alright" or "well they stuffed you so you should do x or y to them". I want to live in a world where people hold others to account for the way they live their lives but also try to live in such a way that they look to increase integrity in their own lives and not use the worst things in society to justify allowing their own integrity to slip. NWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 And where is the money coming to make the move to oz if they cannot pay their debts in the UK? PB, again with the assuming, you are guessing how they get here.........not all roads to Oz are the yellow brick road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 PB, again with the assuming, you are guessing how they get here.........not all roads to Oz are the yellow brick road. The vast majority have to pay big bucks to settle in oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontePom Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The vast majority have to pay big bucks to settle in oz. But not all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErmintrudeMcMoo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The vast majority have to pay big bucks to settle in oz. Yes but you don`t know what visa they are on and you don`t know how much money they are taking with them to set up - they may have relatives over here who will help them when they arrive, they may have a job offer with relocation included, they may have only $3000 and a couple of suitcases, they may have help from family for air fares , they may already have had the visa before they got in debt, they may be Aussie citizens already, you just don`t know. At the end of the day, the original post seemed to me like they were sizing up their options, looking at worse case scenarios and trying to get facts nothing wrong with that, hell they may even be just thinking out loud, or havinga bit of a panic. From what I can see they haven`t done anything illegal or morally wrong - yet - and if they do then that is for them and their conscience - they`ve not commited murder and we are not in possession of all the facts to give a truly balanced opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontePom Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Yes but you don`t know what visa they are on and you don`t know how much money they are taking with them to set up - they may have relatives over here who will help them when they arrive, they may have a job offer with relocation included, they may have only $3000 and a couple of suitcases, they may have help from family for air fares , they may already have had the visa before they got in debt, they may be Aussie citizens already, you just don`t know. Fantastic point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidden Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Did the OP pay for their visa with borrowed money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Did the OP pay for their visa with borrowed money? No but he murdered 3 kids, robbed the treasury and is responsible for the Iraqi war........:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErmintrudeMcMoo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Did the OP pay for their visa with borrowed money? Who knows and is it really any of our business?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Did the OP pay for their visa with borrowed money? Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 No but he murdered 3 kids, robbed the treasury and is responsible for the Iraqi war........:rolleyes: Well he will probably get a suspended sentence for murdering the kids and maybe a fine for starting the Iraqi war but for robbing the treasury he could be looking at a 50 stretch :daydreaming: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Does it matter? Probably not if you are intending to pay it back, but if you are intending to just f**k off and let others deal with it then yes in m opinion it does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joys of Oz Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The vast majority have to pay big bucks to settle in oz. PB For someone with such a strong opinion, your very ill informed, which again, brings me back to my point of, when you know enough about it you can comment. Until then, WIND YOUR NECK IN!!!! I look forward to hearing you opinion once you know more about it to make an INFORMED decision!! My god, why is this such a difficult thing for you to get lol ***rolling my eyes at the ignorance*** some of us have even agreed with you, why can't you extend the same courtesy and consider that there are people out there that have no choice and stop calling them thieves. That's just rude. Your really not covering yourself in glory here dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 But not all... But most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Often when I read this kind of thread I can see both sides of the argument - this one is no exception. The problem seems to me that there is in fact a lot of common ground, it's just how people outwork it that the tension lies. Generally speaking, the common ground is as follows: 1) Most of us have at some point borrowed money and therefore we accept that having debt is a normal part of life 2) It seems that most understand that there are circumstances where people through no fault of their own or deliberately can get into the situation where the debt is overwhelming. The point of tension seems to be how different people decide to deal with this when it happens. On the one side there are those who take the view, 'the banks stuffed us so who cares' and on the other there is the view that as a society we should take responsibility for our own choices and not blame others. For me the question is about integrity, now I know in stating that I open myself up to people saying 'well the banks didn't have integrity so why should I?' however the problem with that argument is that we will always up with chaos and 'the lowest common denominator' if no one is willing to stand in their own integrity or use other peoples poor behaviour for a reason in lowering their own. For me, running away is never the answer in any circumstance. As a society we have to raise the moral standard and accept our responsibility in any situation. In the case of debt, the courts are actually very fair, they never ask people to pay more than they can afford or if they can see that the person has no money then they will accept them going bankrupt. Society in the Uk has decided that bankruptcy court is the way that people can legitimately face up to their debt - in most cases people can be free of all their debt in one year and then start afresh. So when people run away from debt they are actually saying "stuff you society! I'm not going to face up to my issues in the way you have decided is best, I'm going to try to get away with things". A previous poster stated that debt to a person is different to an organisation - sorry but I don't agree. Debt to the banks means that individuals suffer, not the so-called fat cats. The people who suffer are the ordinary employees who lose their jobs, the pensioners whose shares are invested in the banks or the general person on the street whose taxes have to go up to bail the banks out. On the whole I won't judge a person for how they got into debt but I will certainly challenge people who do not walk in integrity when they try to get out of it. I don't want to live in a society where the general attitude is "as long as I'm alright" or "well they stuffed you so you should do x or y to them". I want to live in a world where people hold others to account for the way they live their lives but also try to live in such a way that they look to increase integrity in their own lives and not use the worst things in society to justify allowing their own integrity to slip. NWM Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joys of Oz Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 But most. Lol......like you know enough to comment!!!! judge pb presides!!! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErmintrudeMcMoo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 You know maybe it`s not a case of Im alright Jack , maybe it`s a case of " holy crap Im in over my head and panicking". I`ve heard of people who purposely got loans before emigrating with the sole intent to leave the country and not pay - that to me is wrong, but it`s all down to intent and the OP has done nothing wrong - they have not actually buggered off without paying yet, they have merely come on a forum and asked a question, which thousands in their boat will have thought about but perhaps not asked. TBH he said please don`t judge, he sounds worried and panicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensdad Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Fwiw I was pointing out that owing money to a company is a civil matter and not seen as theft. Facts before posting please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Found this that might help, so if they take legal action the debt is never written off. If a creditor successfully gets the debt repaid, they have a maximum period of 6 years from the last time the debt was acknowledged to recover the money using the legal system. If a creditor has taken legal action, the debt will never be cancelled and can be indefinitely recoverable. Countries such as Canada and Germany have agreements with the UK. This agreement makes it possible to easily locate debtors and issue debt collection services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheArmChairDetective Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Yes but you don`t know what visa they are on and you don`t know how much money they are taking with them to set up - they may have relatives over here who will help them when they arrive, they may have a job offer with relocation included, they may have only $3000 and a couple of suitcases, they may have help from family for air fares , they may already have had the visa before they got in debt, they may be Aussie citizens already, you just don`t know. At the end of the day, the original post seemed to me like they were sizing up their options, looking at worse case scenarios and trying to get facts nothing wrong with that, hell they may even be just thinking out loud, or havinga bit of a panic. From what I can see they haven`t done anything illegal or morally wrong - yet - and if they do then that is for them and their conscience - they`ve not commited murder and we are not in possession of all the facts to give a truly balanced opinion.. Good post, and very relevant. The OP doesn't say he/she is asking for their own benefit, or has any debt at all. What is said is "Don't think bad of me". BINGO, let's crucify the OP. My response was aimed at giving some pointers to answer the question, non judgmental of the reasons for asking as they are not plain, just assumed. I wouldn't ask the OP to give out personal data here but then not having responded to the thread we don't know if they've come back to read the subsequent crucifixion. Well done us, let's all give ourselves a pat on the back ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Found this that might help, so if they take legal action the debt is never written off. If a creditor successfully gets the debt repaid, they have a maximum period of 6 years from the last time the debt was acknowledged to recover the money using the legal system. If a creditor has taken legal action, the debt will never be cancelled and can be indefinitely recoverable. Countries such as Canada and Germany have agreements with the UK. This agreement makes it possible to easily locate debtors and issue debt collection services. [h=1]IHTM28384 - Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts[/h]If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred. Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are in simple contracts, 6 years in contracts under seal, 12 years. If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment. Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made. These instructions do not apply to debts in Scotland. Under Scottish law, if a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred under the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973. (For details of this Act see Gloag and Henderson 12th edition at Chapter4.). These debts are completely extinguished and cannot be enforced. Once the prescriptive period expires the debt cannot be allowed as a deduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 This may make interesting reading http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Actually, he said Please do think of me as a bad person.... so some of us did Freudian slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well I hope none of you guys ever find yourself in the same position. Thats why I try not judge - you just never know when it might happen to you or your loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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