Children - what happens if you/your partner decide to go home.....

[RockDr]

No idea on the visas unless it is because she won't get to keep her spouse visa based on changed circumstances but would get right to abode under another family visa based on your daughter's permanent residency?

 

Whopperdaisy I think you've hit the nail on the head there. the daughter is entitled to a child visa, which would give her PR and eventually citizenship. As a parent, the mother would then be able to apply for a parent visa, which would give her PR, completely independently of the child's father.

 

The spouse visa will only become a PR visa if the couple are still together after two years. The issue here becomes that if they do break up after the mother and child have entered australia to live but before PR is granted, confusedd could stop the mother taking the child home (hague convention) and apply for the child's PR visa. In the meantime, the mother's visa would be cancelled and she might have to leave australia without the child, as she wouldn't be able to apply for a parent visa until the child's visa is granted.

 

Once she is out of the country, unless she has a skill to get herself an independent visa, she would either have to fork out for a contributory parent visa, or get the non-contributory visa, which has a waiting time of many years, during which time, she still has no right to live in australia.

 

The long and short of this is that both parents need to be very careful about how they tread here, as it would be very easy for the other parent to screw them over big time. I would highly recommend going to see an experienced migration agent, and making sure all parties are aware of their options.

[Peach]

The issue here becomes that if they do break up after the mother and child have entered australia to live but before PR is granted, confusedd could stop the mother taking the child home (hague convention) and apply for the child's PR visa. In the meantime, the mother's visa would be cancelled and she might have to leave australia without the child, as she wouldn't be able to apply for a parent visa until the child's visa is granted.

 

This has come up before, providing DIAC are aware of the situation they are very unlikely to cancel a parent's visa (where the child has a right to remain in Australia) if it will effect the parent's access to the child.

[2tigers]

What would also be taken into consideration in a case like this, if it ever went to court for a relocation back to the UK, is a Mothers case against a Fathers in court.

 

In confussedd's case, the mother would obviously have a good paper trail of evidence which shows the Father deliberately trying to get the child into AU, knowing they are not together anymore. It may be seen as deceitful. He would get the H.C part of the case paid for if she did abduct, but would have to pay out $$$ for the relocation case. It could cost a LOT of $$$ to go through the court case, and if the courts knew how this whole process had been performed, then he may also lose his child back to the UK and be left with a lot of debt.

 

In my personal experience, relocation cases in AU are treated as thoroughly as any high profile case, no stone left unturned. Our trial lasted 10 days and cost me & my ex a lot of money, I am not talking 10's of thousands either.

 

Please do not put yourself in this situation.

[Guest Scott in Oz]

It is brilliant that you have brought this to everyones attention!

 

I am thinking of having a baby in Aus with my Australian partner, do you know, can you have a legal document written before the child is born (if both parties can agree) that if anything happens to the marriage who the child will stay with?

 

Its so sad to think that this tears families apart

[2tigers]

It is brilliant that you have brought this to everyones attention!

 

I am thinking of having a baby in Aus with my Australian partner, do you know, can you have a legal document written before the child is born (if both parties can agree) that if anything happens to the marriage who the child will stay with?

 

Its so sad to think that this tears families apart

 

Its awful isn't it, having to think to the future in such a cautious way, but its life, so many people split up and turn into someone they don't even recognise themselves. Empathy kinda goes out of the window in lots of cases, children are torn and both parents lives are put through turmoil. Its not a case of just moving to another state, its an international relationship.

 

If I was you I would speak to your partner about this thread and get his opinion, then seek legal advice to see what can be put in place. Good luck.

[whopperdaisy]

I can only say from my experience that once my child (and the father) were here with an application in the system, my ex was not asked to leave and had to change the visa type sought. I don't think it cost him anything much to change that application either. That is because we were in Australia when we separated though - if she is still in the UK, it would be another matter and the visa could be cancelled.

 

I would strongly recommend against being anything other than completely honest on the DIAC forms. Aside from anything, your ex may be able to claim certain things if she takes you to court on custody matters because you have signed a DIAC form saying so.

[Guest NeilEB]

This is interesting and thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

My wife and I tried to sit down and have a rational conversation, but of course it descended into the "well, I want him" type discussion.

 

I reckon he'd do better with his mother, but having said that, I think there's more opportunity for children in Oz then in the UK.

 

It's really hard to have a rational discussion - we were hoping to agree to a plan that we could get our solicitor to sign, but in reality it's hard.

[2tigers]

So pleased someone read this before they moved. The thing I found was that as a single parent you just want family and friends around for support. Its very difficult being alone on the other side of the world with no-one.

 

Good luck and I hope you never have to make this decision

[whopperdaisy]

So pleased someone read this before they moved. The thing I found was that as a single parent you just want family and friends around for support. Its very difficult being alone on the other side of the world with no-one.

 

Good luck and I hope you never have to make this decision

 

I agree exactly... any benefits (and of course there are benefits of living in either country) can be lost if you feel isolated without family support when you become a single parent. I think that sometimes courts in their indecision leave children in a worst of both worlds situation. I will say that I don't think their job is easy in making these decisions but sometimes the child's best interests seem to get lost among the red tape.

 

It is very hard to weigh up which things have most value and this is something that can't neatly fit in the court's framework because it doesn't allow for every parent and child being different. Is having a very negative effect by making a custodial parent stay in a country they don't feel settled or supported outweighed by having time with the other parent all the time? What if that parent is for example abusive or a drug user or has personality issues or even (less extreme but quite common) does not have the motivation to really make that relationship a strong one. Does that outweigh having involved and loving extended family. In some cases the answer may be yes and in some no but courts don't really deal well with those grey areas. I'm waffling a bit.

 

Good on you and your wife, Neil, for at least opening the discussion. I hope you'll be able to go back to it again at some point when you've both reflected more. I think it is brave of you to consider your child may be better with his other parent and that statement in itself shows your love.

 

My personal opinion is that most times the child benefits from a well-supported custodial parent more than the debatable opportunities of living in Australia. I'll admit a lot of bias though :cute:

[Guest NeilEB]

Good on you and your wife, Neil, for at least opening the discussion. I hope you'll be able to go back to it again at some point when you've both reflected more. I think it is brave of you to consider your child may be better with his other parent and that statement in itself shows your love.

 

 

 

The problem is though, it's very hard to discuss this decision in the abstract - until it happens (obviously hopefully it never will), nobody knows how they will feel. What happens for example, if I'm really settled in Oz after two years, so is my son, but my wife is unhappy and wants to go home. Is it 'fair' on my son to give up his friends, and his sporty outdoor lifestyle?

 

Meh, at the moment, I'm still waiting for WA to approve State Sponsorship, so it could all be moot anyway....

[whopperdaisy]

You're right and that's a big part of what makes it so tough. I do think even in the abstract it is good that you have opened that conversation. A lot perhaps depends on the age of the child and maybe there are other measures to consider, like committing to making holidays to the UK a priority above other non-essential expenditures. I think that being forced to be here would be a whole lot more bearable if that were an option for me, so maybe that would be a start. I think in any case having a supportive other parent who is understanding of the desire to go back to the UK would be worth a lot, even if there isn't agreement. Or maybe some agreement to spend an amount of years in each country, but depending on your son's interests.

[Quoll]

The problem is though, it's very hard to discuss this decision in the abstract - until it happens (obviously hopefully it never will), nobody knows how they will feel. What happens for example, if I'm really settled in Oz after two years, so is my son, but my wife is unhappy and wants to go home. Is it 'fair' on my son to give up his friends, and his sporty outdoor lifestyle?

 

Meh, at the moment, I'm still waiting for WA to approve State Sponsorship, so it could all be moot anyway....

 

It always seems to be "fair" on the kids to take them away from their UK lives (home, family, friends, school, activities) just because it doesnt suit the parents itch for adventure so I guess the same could be said for taking them from Aus because one parent's mental health may be suffering. It isnt like he would be going to a godforsaken place where nobody played sport (Soccer appears to be much more of a thing in UK than it does here for example) and he could never go out of doors (like Northern Canada in the winter). It's just ludicrous to suggest that you cant have a sporting outdoor life in UK - many kids do, as do many adults. Until you have experienced it, extreme heat is just as big a deterrent to putting your nose outside as is a bit of rain.

[2tigers]

After all these years I have never looked at it like that Quoll -

 

It always seems to be "fair" on the kids to take them away from their UK lives (home, family, friends, school, activities) just because it doesnt suit the parents itch for adventure so I guess the same could be said for taking them from Aus because one parent's mental health may be suffering.

 

Thank you

[Guest NeilEB]

I completely see your point of view Quoll, and although I don't know your personal circumstances I can guess based on your posts.

 

Please let me explain that I am talking in the abstract at this point - my wife and I tried to have this conversation a few days ago.

 

My son is three at the moment, so doesn't really have friends (as such) - it's not like we are dragging him away at the age of 14.

 

My view is by the time we move (if ever), he'll be just starting school, so by the time 2 years have passed, he will be in the age range to know what friends are, and to be able to pick the people he likes.

 

That's what I was trying to get at - maybe I didn't explain that very well

[Quoll]

I completely see your point of view Quoll, and although I don't know your personal circumstances I can guess based on your posts.

 

Please let me explain that I am talking in the abstract at this point - my wife and I tried to have this conversation a few days ago.

 

My son is three at the moment, so doesn't really have friends (as such) - it's not like we are dragging him away at the age of 14.

 

My view is by the time we move (if ever), he'll be just starting school, so by the time 2 years have passed, he will be in the age range to know what friends are, and to be able to pick the people he likes.

 

That's what I was trying to get at - maybe I didn't explain that very well

 

LOL just playing devils advocate - doesnt matter what age he is, so many parents move their kids here at all ages - you see the ones who drag their 16 year olds kicking and screaming away from all they know and love. Age is, in essence, irrelevant in this case - people do it all the time in reverse and no one bats an eyelid just pats them on the back and tells them to go for it, they are doing it for the better life blah blah blah. There is nothing inherently better about Australia, it is just a parent's itch for adventure that brings them here, usually. Often an opportunity not to be missed but rarely is it about the kids although that is the usual catch cry.

 

At 3 your lad probably has a strong connection to grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever - do you think it is a good move to take him away from them? Attachment is very strong to little kids some times and it can take them a long while to get over that loss. Once they do get over it they can have a real sense of isolation because they dont have grandma to come and see them at school on grandparents day, watch them swim in carnivals, dance in shows, see them win certificates at school, cry with them when their pets die etc It is an isolating life no matter how many acquaintances you have - at least for a generation then they begin to make their own families, the oldies die off and they become the elders with their own kids and you become the grandparents.

 

Would you really condemn someone you love to living in a place which makes them chronically miserable and depressed and deny them the support of extended family if they decide they need it? I sincerely hope not.

 

You are right, I am here against my will, I hate it with a passion because I am trapped but I am a strong woman and have made the least worst choice and got on with it with some semblance of compromise which sees me go home once or twice a year to retain my sanity. Doesnt mean I have to like it and it certainly doesnt mean I stay silent when I see other women being trapped in an even meaner situation ie having their kids used as pawns against them in a nasty little game of power to get their own way (I say women, as it usually is the women although there are occasional chaps who are trapped because of their wife's intransigence - apologies to those blokes who are also doing it tough).

 

So, in a nutshell, saying you wouldnt go back because your 5 year old (for arguments sake) loved his life here just wont fly - most 5 year olds couldnt give a toss if they were in Towcester or Tuggeranong just as long as mum and dad were happy and the people that love them are in their lives.

[Guest NeilEB]

Points well made - we have spoken to our son about how he wont see his cousins or grandparents, but will be able to speak to them on the computer and he seems fine with that (he's more worried about the 'red black spiders'....)

 

It is a very difficult choice, but my wife and I feel we aren't risking much, and there MAY be more opportunity out in OZ. We have promised to give it two years and then re-evaluate - if nothing else it will be a challenge that will help as grow as people and come to appreciate what we have in this country. Neither of us will be too proud to say "it isn't working let's go home" - the only difficulty will come if one wants to stay and the other wants to go.

 

In truth that is a bridge that hopefully we wont need to cross, but if we do then we'll have to make the decision based on information available at the time.

[RockDr]

Neither of us will be too proud to say "it isn't working let's go home" - the only difficulty will come if one wants to stay and the other wants to go.

 

In truth that is a bridge that hopefully we wont need to cross, but if we do then we'll have to make the decision based on information available at the time.

 

My take on this aspect of things. If one wants to stay and the other wants to go home, are you really willing to break up over this? At the end of the day, if one of you finds they really can't cope with the isolation (and it could be either of you, people never really know how they're going to react to a situation until they're in it), there's not much they can do to correct this over in australia, so you're probably better off both heading home. The one who prefers the lifestyle in australia will cope much better with making the effort to build a better lifestyle in the UK, than the one who's stuck in australia for the rest of their life without family and friends. Probably better to make a decision now along the lines of "give it two years and if one of you doesn't like it you all go home", that way it won't tear you apart in the event that it does happen.

 

Might also be worth agreeing now on how often you want to budget to fly home. For me, from experience I know that I need a trip home every 18months or so to keep that feeling of isolation and homesickness at bay, others don't have such close family ties and are happy to never go back.

[veryhopeful]

Well just to add another possible outcome here, I followed this thread with interest whilst going through the courts in the UK to secure permission to leave the UK to come to Australia with my children and I thought I would add my story.

 

Short version - was married to the father of my children, we got PR visas in 2006, he left me in early 2007 whilst I was pregnant with our twins, after we had validated our visas and delayed coming for family reasons (elderly relatives). He went off with someone else leaving me and three children under 5 including the twins. Anyway once the fog of newborn babies and no sleep wore off, I decided I still wanted to emigrate even without him (brave or stupid not sure!) and I went through court to get permission to come.

 

I got Leave to Remove permission after 18 months, lots of intrusion into my life by Cafcass, and £15000 later - despite his best attempts to stop me from coming. He resorted to lying, stealing, intercepting and recording phone conversations and blackmail but I still got permission and came over in late 2010. It was getting a bit late in the day as the visas nearly expired (Jan 2011) but we made it. I applied as a single mother for the twins' 101 visas and was accepted. I was expecting somewhere along the line that something would go wrong. I waited shaking when we arrived at Sydney airport, expecting that the immigration officer would point out the reason why we should not be coming into the country! Bleary eyed I was waiting for that knock back but it didnt come! We arrived at the end of 2010, are settled and loving it. Its been an uphill struggle but the pleasure of hearing the kids playing out day in day out til the sun goes down makes it all worth while. I am now trying to buy somewhere for us to live so we can set down roots and they can grow up in the sunshine.

 

HOWEVER.

 

Despite trying to stop us from coming, costing me an arm and a leg, trying to dictate my life to me and failing to see how the constant attacks on the mother of his children might actually have an impact on the lives of the children..... their father decided to emigrate as well and followed us out here at the end of 2010.

 

So now, potentially, having already faced a battle and a half to get here, I could, if things dont work out for me or the children any reason (not that I can see one) potentially face a battle to go back to the UK I would have to reapply for Leave to Remove from here which I understand would probably not be granted - I am now where I want to be, but still half way round the world from my support network with my abusive ex living a few k's away. Nothing I can do about it and I am now awaiting him starting a custody battle with me here because he can. So, I thought I had escaped to start a wonderful new life without wondering each day where the next attack was going to come from only to have the fight transferred miles from home.

 

Groundhog day.

[Guest siamsusie]

:hug: Some times posts leave you speechless and this is one of them!

 

You are one brave gutsy lady and I wish you and the children the best that life can offer you, you deserve it.

 

 

love Susie

[Parley]

Well just to add another possible outcome here, I followed this thread with interest whilst going through the courts in the UK to secure permission to leave the UK to come to Australia with my children and I thought I would add my story.

 

Short version - was married to the father of my children, we got PR visas in 2006, he left me in early 2007 whilst I was pregnant with our twins, after we had validated our visas and delayed coming for family reasons (elderly relatives). He went off with someone else leaving me and three children under 5 including the twins. Anyway once the fog of newborn babies and no sleep wore off, I decided I still wanted to emigrate even without him (brave or stupid not sure!) and I went through court to get permission to come.

 

I got Leave to Remove permission after 18 months, lots of intrusion into my life by Cafcass, and £15000 later - despite his best attempts to stop me from coming. He resorted to lying, stealing, intercepting and recording phone conversations and blackmail but I still got permission and came over in late 2010. It was getting a bit late in the day as the visas nearly expired (Jan 2011) but we made it. I applied as a single mother for the twins' 101 visas and was accepted. I was expecting somewhere along the line that something would go wrong. I waited shaking when we arrived at Sydney airport, expecting that the immigration officer would point out the reason why we should not be coming into the country! Bleary eyed I was waiting for that knock back but it didnt come! We arrived at the end of 2010, are settled and loving it. Its been an uphill struggle but the pleasure of hearing the kids playing out day in day out til the sun goes down makes it all worth while. I am now trying to buy somewhere for us to live so we can set down roots and they can grow up in the sunshine.

 

HOWEVER.

 

Despite trying to stop us from coming, costing me an arm and a leg, trying to dictate my life to me and failing to see how the constant attacks on the mother of his children might actually have an impact on the lives of the children..... their father decided to emigrate as well and followed us out here at the end of 2010.

 

So now, potentially, having already faced a battle and a half to get here, I could, if things dont work out for me or the children any reason (not that I can see one) potentially face a battle to go back to the UK I would have to reapply for Leave to Remove from here which I understand would probably not be granted - I am now where I want to be, but still half way round the world from my support network with my abusive ex living a few k's away. Nothing I can do about it and I am now awaiting him starting a custody battle with me here because he can. So, I thought I had escaped to start a wonderful new life without wondering each day where the next attack was going to come from only to have the fight transferred miles from home.

 

Groundhog day.

 

 

Hi, I do feel for you.

Hopefully this could turn out well for all concerned. If you can agree custody arrangements with their father and both try to put your differences aside for the sake of the kids, then hopefully it will be the best outcome for the kids in the circumstances.

 

Good Luck. hope it works out.

[Pumpkin]

Well just to add another possible outcome here, I followed this thread with interest whilst going through the courts in the UK to secure permission to leave the UK to come to Australia with my children and I thought I would add my story.

 

Short version - was married to the father of my children, we got PR visas in 2006, he left me in early 2007 whilst I was pregnant with our twins, after we had validated our visas and delayed coming for family reasons (elderly relatives). He went off with someone else leaving me and three children under 5 including the twins. Anyway once the fog of newborn babies and no sleep wore off, I decided I still wanted to emigrate even without him (brave or stupid not sure!) and I went through court to get permission to come.

 

I got Leave to Remove permission after 18 months, lots of intrusion into my life by Cafcass, and £15000 later - despite his best attempts to stop me from coming. He resorted to lying, stealing, intercepting and recording phone conversations and blackmail but I still got permission and came over in late 2010. It was getting a bit late in the day as the visas nearly expired (Jan 2011) but we made it. I applied as a single mother for the twins' 101 visas and was accepted. I was expecting somewhere along the line that something would go wrong. I waited shaking when we arrived at Sydney airport, expecting that the immigration officer would point out the reason why we should not be coming into the country! Bleary eyed I was waiting for that knock back but it didnt come! We arrived at the end of 2010, are settled and loving it. Its been an uphill struggle but the pleasure of hearing the kids playing out day in day out til the sun goes down makes it all worth while. I am now trying to buy somewhere for us to live so we can set down roots and they can grow up in the sunshine.

 

HOWEVER.

 

Despite trying to stop us from coming, costing me an arm and a leg, trying to dictate my life to me and failing to see how the constant attacks on the mother of his children might actually have an impact on the lives of the children..... their father decided to emigrate as well and followed us out here at the end of 2010.

 

So now, potentially, having already faced a battle and a half to get here, I could, if things dont work out for me or the children any reason (not that I can see one) potentially face a battle to go back to the UK I would have to reapply for Leave to Remove from here which I understand would probably not be granted - I am now where I want to be, but still half way round the world from my support network with my abusive ex living a few k's away. Nothing I can do about it and I am now awaiting him starting a custody battle with me here because he can. So, I thought I had escaped to start a wonderful new life without wondering each day where the next attack was going to come from only to have the fight transferred miles from home.

 

Groundhog day.

 

Ummm is it possible that after he saw he was going to lose the court battle he decided he just needed to be on the same side of the world as his children?

 

If he had custody and brought the children to the other side of the world, and you have a visa, then maybe you would come over as well. Just a thought.

[veryhopeful]

umm pumpkin umm well he was TOLD he was probably going to lose at the begninning of the court case at which point he could have come to an arrangement with me but he decided to force me through four court hearings and untold expense instead. Money that I could have spent on his children instead of lawyers and court fees. Price of a decent car instead of the overpriced shed I am now driving! (Gosh aren't cars expensive here!!)

 

And yes of course he wants to be near his children but hey, he could have done a lot of things a whole lot different instead of winding up / slagging off / cheating on / blackmailing (etc etc shall I go on?) the mother he could have been working with her to come to an arrangement which suited everyone instead of trying to keep me prisoner so I could babysit his children whilst he carried on like nothing happened. If I had a visa and my children were possibly going to be taken to the other side of the world I would leave no stone unturned to make sure I was on the side of the parent leaving. I would want to be as much a part of their life as possible without having to force my way in, but if you refuse to work with the other parent then you are going to get their back up and that is not going to be productive is it? If you have to use force then everyone resents it, and the bully along with it. Personally I wouldnt have done half the things he has done but he cant seem to see how destructive his behaviour is, and indeed continues to be.

 

Mothers are entitled to a life too, they do not exist to facilitate everyone elses life yet we get the short end of the 'life' stick too often because we are only here to be bullied by the system, the fathers, the state, etc etc. I am pleased I stuck through to the end to be here, even miles away from home I am happier than I ever was in the UK even with my amazing friends there.

 

Susie, thank you. xx There were times I was going to give up but I didnt, I had a dream and now we are living it.

Parleycross, thank you I hope it works out too but until he grows up and stops bullying me I am not hopeful.

[2tigers]

Jeepers veryhopeful, what a journey! I admire your strength and I hope that your life there continues to be happy for you all.

 

I hope you do not have to go through any kind of court in AU, its a very different system, over in AU the father has 50% custodial rights, so a lot of split families only have their children 50% of the time, unlike in the UK where most fathers would have their children at the weekends or every other. One tip for you, if you ever feel the need for help (contact arrangements) try to stay away from the courts and try to make arrangements through mediation first.

 

All the very best of luck, enjoy your new life

[Pumpkin]

umm pumpkin umm well he was TOLD he was probably going to lose at the begninning of the court case at which point he could have come to an arrangement with me but he decided to force me through four court hearings and untold expense instead. Money that I could have spent on his children instead of lawyers and court fees. Price of a decent car instead of the overpriced shed I am now driving! (Gosh aren't cars expensive here!!)

 

And yes of course he wants to be near his children but hey, he could have done a lot of things a whole lot different instead of winding up / slagging off / cheating on / blackmailing (etc etc shall I go on?) the mother he could have been working with her to come to an arrangement which suited everyone instead of trying to keep me prisoner so I could babysit his children whilst he carried on like nothing happened. If I had a visa and my children were possibly going to be taken to the other side of the world I would leave no stone unturned to make sure I was on the side of the parent leaving. I would want to be as much a part of their life as possible without having to force my way in, but if you refuse to work with the other parent then you are going to get their back up and that is not going to be productive is it? If you have to use force then everyone resents it, and the bully along with it. Personally I wouldnt have done half the things he has done but he cant seem to see how destructive his behaviour is, and indeed continues to be.

 

Mothers are entitled to a life too, they do not exist to facilitate everyone elses life yet we get the short end of the 'life' stick too often because we are only here to be bullied by the system, the fathers, the state, etc etc. I am pleased I stuck through to the end to be here, even miles away from home I am happier than I ever was in the UK even with my amazing friends there.

 

Susie, thank you. xx There were times I was going to give up but I didnt, I had a dream and now we are living it.

Parleycross, thank you I hope it works out too but until he grows up and stops bullying me I am not hopeful.

 

Whilst your OH is not somebody I feel particularly endeared to (I can think of very few things lower than leaving a pregnant woman) I also think that men should not be denied access to their children because they have decided that the relationship with the mother was not working or even because they are a cheating scumbag. Nor should the children be separated from the father.

 

Would you fight it in court if your children were going to be taken to the other side of the world against your wishes? I expect so. Would you say oh never mind I will let him take them and will buy them some presents instead of fighting for my children. I expect not.

 

So by the same token I think there is nothing unreasonable that he decided to go to court. Just as I think there is nothing unreasonable about him deciding that he wants to live in the same part of the world as his children. I don't understand why you don't understand this and have posted as if it wrong that he chose to live near his children. I don't really understand why you are not glad that your children can maintain a closer relationshiip with their father after you have dragged them to the other side of the world. You seem to want to punish this guy and who would blame you, but this is just not the way.

[Guest NeilEB]

Pumpkin,

 

From the story, (and I get that we have only heard one side of it), this man seems like a horrible person who made veryhopeful's life a nightmare for months - blackmailing, lying etc.

 

I think it's gone a bit beyond the 'relationship not working so let's try and breakup nicely', and veryhopeful seems concerned that the abusive behaviour will continue now that he's back in her life.

 

Whilst I sometimes have sympathy for father's who are often treated poorly in the UK courts, if the story we have been told is true, then I have no sympathy for the father in this example.