2tigers Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 If you are thinking of moving to Australia with children I would advise this.... Or even - if your in Australia and wish to take your children home to the UK to live..... Sit down and discuss what you would both like to happen with your children if your dream of living in Australia isn't what you expected/you separate/in the event one of you chooses to go back home? Too many scenarios to note all - you get the jist! Do you a) Children stay with Mother, regardless of where she chooses to live? b) Children stay with Father, regardless of where he chooses to live? c) You both stay in Australia so the children can have both parents? d) You both go back home to the UK? e) May have other thoughts! Did you know this? Once you have both made the decision to move to Australia, as soon as you land - the Children are now residents of Australia? If one of you decided to go back home, you will need your partners permission to take the children, yes - even if ALL of you were born and have lived your whole lives in the UK. If you leave & take the children with you, without the other parents permission, regardless of your circumstances (eg..separated, no money, no house, no job, Isolation etc etc), and the stay behind parent pursues you - - You may have the police knocking on your door in the UK, you may be charged with child abduction. Yes, even if the child was born and raised in the UK. You would have broken a law called the 'Hague Convention'. Once the police come knocking you may then be summoned to court under the Hague Convention, and more than likely (99%) the children will be ordered back to Australia. Then once in Australia you will then have to go through the courts in Australia to apply to have your child/ren relocate with you back to the UK! And you may not win. Long winded I know, but this is a law that is not mentioned in many places. This is a law that those tempting 'Move to Australia for a better life' TV programs etc don't mention, this is a law that the Immigration don't mention. Its a law people have never heard of unless it happens to them. This happens to many people each year, and is something that I believe people need to know about in case it happens to them, or they know someone who it may affect. Take precautions before the move, talk about the children's future's, and get it in writing with a Solicitor! Take a good look at your visa restrictions - are you coming due to your Spouse's trade? Whats the restrictions on the other parents visa if you separate within the 1st 2 yrs? Doing this may save you years within the legal system, over $150,000 in costs, your children's mental wellbeing, health, stress, poverty and years wasted. I hope this post helps someone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 This is a very good post and I hope people pay attention! I do so hope that you didnt learn all this the hard way but I do know that there are people stuck here because their marriages have fallen apart but the other partner refuses to let the children leave. That is not a situation I would wish on anyone but it is happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaziechick Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 wow...one never thinks about these things. we all always look at all the positive things and never look at the risk of things going wrong. Ofcourse it isn't always human nature to imagine things going wrong particularly if a family seems really secure and tight however people have experienced the things and it's good the someone is standing on our shoulders and gently telling about the small print of life. thanks for enlightening!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spadgersdad Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Excellent post, something none of us ever think or know about. definately food for thought!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 What a great post, I would also like to add something for those moving with children, try and get an emergency contact over here, we offer this service to all our clients with children as you never know, say the kids are at school and your both out driving and are involved in a serious car crash, you have to think who will care for the children whilst your in hospital or if you both died, yes I know it may sound morbid but when we arrived here these are things we had to think of as we had no family here to care for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 I am happy I wrote this now, I was very unsure of how to put it! There are some who have been through this who have tried to get immigration to add a leaflet to their package to warn people..... they only ever promote the good! I do hope non of you go through this, but it does happen, and there are lots and lots of us that have been dragged through it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrammies Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 great post but isn't this one of those issues that you cant sort out before it happens because you can't truly know how everyone involved will react and break ups aren't normally rational Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 great post but isn't this one of those issues that you cant sort out before it happens because you can't truly know how everyone involved will react and break ups aren't normally rational Very true. So many scenario's. To be informed is better than to not know. Moving to the other side of the world is a huge decision. One that unfortunately, many of us dismiss the very thought of a breakdown in our choice of life partner. Unfortunately it does happen, to the strongest of marriages. The stresses/new life/new jobs/new friends/affairs - no life/no job/no friends/no extended family/isolation, all can contribute to breakdowns in what initially was a fantastic idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stockies Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 What a great post, I would also like to add something for those moving with children, try and get an emergency contact over here, we offer this service to all our clients with children as you never know, say the kids are at school and your both out driving and are involved in a serious car crash, you have to think who will care for the children whilst your in hospital or if you both died, yes I know it may sound morbid but when we arrived here these are things we had to think of as we had no family here to care for them. This is one of the things that I have had at the back of my mind , What have you all done ??? Obviously as we move to OZ you dont know anyone that lives there other than you guys on here !!!! Intrested to see the response from you all....... Claire. XX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 What a great post, I would also like to add something for those moving with children, try and get an emergency contact over here, we offer this service to all our clients with children as you never know, say the kids are at school and your both out driving and are involved in a serious car crash, you have to think who will care for the children whilst your in hospital or if you both died, yes I know it may sound morbid but when we arrived here these are things we had to think of as we had no family here to care for them. Lol, i think it must come with the job Kate , not quite sure what our local school thinks as im emergancy contact for quite a few different kids there now. Its one thing i struggled with when we arrived so always offer to be a contact for any clients settling around here, better to be safe than sorry. Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Thank you for this advice. We are off to get a solicitor to sort out our wills this week, because now we are moving to Oz it is more complicated both financially and as to what happens with the children should the worst happen and one or both of us dies. Hadn't thought about marriage break up. Will also be thinking about the emergency contact thing too. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stockies Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Lol, i think it must come with the job Kate , not quite sure what our local school thinks as im emergancy contact for quite a few different kids there now. Its one thing i struggled with when we arrived so always offer to be a contact for any clients settling around here, better to be safe than sorry.Cal x Gof forbid anything ever happens to any of the families Cal, but you could end up with a house full of kids !!!!!!!! Lmaso ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Bumpitty bump...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J&T Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Thanks 2tigers for bringing this to people's attention. A family we know went to Australia on a student visa and they struggled so badly financially for the 3 years, that it put a strain on the relationship and they split. They had been together for 20 years and always had a good marriage in the UK. They have now been in Australia for 7 years, although they live seperately and have shared access with the children. Neither of them wish to return to the UK and although they are still both skint and can't afford to buy a house over there, they still regards themselves as being lucky to live there! Every family is different and this thread will hopefully make people realise how BIG a decision to emigrate is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THORPES Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Thanks for the info. Its something we have never thought about. Also about the emergency contact. Jill xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest __TJ__ Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 wow, another thing to add to the list of stuff to think about thanks for letting us know tho, better safe than sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Just to note, this is not a law just for Australia, it is world wide and majority of countries around the world are members of the "Hague Convention" law (at least 65 nations are members). Even if the scenario was Spain, and you took a child back to the UK, it would be child abduction and they would be sent back to Spain under the "Hague Convention"! The 'Left behind' parent gets all their legal fees paid for by the convention until they are returned. Please, please, please discuss this law with your partner & anyone you know who has children, thinking of moving to another country..... it is better to be informed, try and come to a joint agreement before you go, then get it in writing! You need to do this for your children! Putting your dream to one side a moment, your children are the ones who it would affect & be torn.... more important than a dream I would say! If I can help one family from going through this I will be pleased ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Bumpity Bump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hello Everyone I would like to say that I am one of many parents that came to oz with my husband (now ex)and then our 2 year old son we agreed that we would come to oz for 2 years and left our house in the UK rented out. We came to oz and things did not work out for many reasons and we seperated within 18mths of been in oz. My husband did not want to go back home to the Uk as he has family in both countries and so by law you CAN NOT remove the child from his or her country of residence without the consent of both parents if you do you will be charged with child abduction through the Hague Convention Laws, which they do not advise you of when you complete the migration forms. So I now have full custody of my son in Australia with no family and friends to love , help and support us. I had to sell the house in the Uk which most of it went on a refused re location case back to the UK while my ex kept the house in OZ. So I am without a home, family and friends. Did I ask the question before coming to oz no I did not, I just thought as we were all born UK citizens that you would be able to bring your child back home.........wrong . I have to say if the immigration papers would have stated this I would not have come to Australia in the first place. My ex is taking me to court next week to ask for less time with his son and that I pick or drop for his contact he pays 3 pounds a week in child support - bad Tax and Child Support System here too. It cost me 25,000 pounds to apply to bring my son back home to the UK where I could have provided for him better. My mortgage in the Uk was 300 dollars a month, my rent in OZ is 350 dollars per week. So think long and hard about moving to another country with children it does NOT matter how long you have been in OZ when you step on OZ soil your child stays here unless both parents agree otherwise. You can go back home but without your children. Even a temporary visa will give you the same situation . I really wish the immigration department would make families aware of this , I think it is important as we all assume we can just go back home if it does not work out , and you never know what is around that corner. I am making a life for me and my son here 5 years on but it is very hard indeed. I try to make make the best life for my son and I and work very hard to make the most of life here. I have not seen my family in the UK for 5 years and it hurts every single day. Australia is a great country but so is the Uk because that is where the people who really love you are.:cute: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hi there Pommyoz, I am so sorry you have had to go through this, its the worst nightmare imaginable. Thanks for sharing your story. Please everyone, please discuss this before you come. There are many many couples who separate once over here then obviously want to go home, but can't. The rest of their lives are here in Australia, no choice, never to go home again unless they leave their children. I will be bumping this thread every now and again. It would be nice if PIO put this as a sticky? It can not be ignored. Thanks for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 My now ex husband and I did discuss that if we wanted to come back home to the UK we would come back together hence not selling the house in the UK but it does not matter what you discuss with each other before you go the result are still the same. Just know that if you come to OZ knowing what you know then you will be here with your children forever on your own and its hard believe me. In my case I suffered physical ,mental and emotional abuse and still do 7 years on it does not stop. So just remember knowledge is power and think hard before leaving people who really do love and support you in the UK. You may think everything will be good and it might be but just take a look at the other side of the coin before you leap.Take care and be happy xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 Thanks 'Pommyoz', appreciate you telling your story. I hope PIO members don't feel this thread a negative one..... it is not written to be so, my aim being an important thread of information for those thinking of moving here with children. Myself, like Pommyoz, have been put through the 'run of the mill' with the HC and wouldn't wish it on an enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 Bumpity Bump! I have been in touch with PIO via contact info on this forum, asking to have this post as a sticky for new people joining this website, hoping they will be better informed before moving country. You are entitled to know how you stand regarding your children before you move, I would say 99.9% do not know.... then when they find out are in shock! Please keep bumping this thread... thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Bumpity Bump! I have been in touch with PIO via contact info on this forum, asking to have this post as a sticky for new people joining this website, hoping they will be better informed before moving country. You are entitled to know how you stand regarding your children before you move, I would say 99.9% do not know.... then when they find out are in shock! Please keep bumping this thread... thank you I agree that this information is pertinent but it is not the Dept. Immigrations job to point it out, people have to inform themselves of legalities that may affect them. There are legal barriers to moving within a country also. That is if they are adhered to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Bumpity Bump! I stay away a few days and this thread falls off the pages! Dear Mod's - can we have this thread or something similar to warn people, as a sticky? It would be very thoughtful to those thinking of moving! Lives are ruined and futures turn into nightmares because of this law, people need to know! Its not going to go away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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