Guest Bubblez Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I must agree with you there. Those are some great ideas. In so many relationships, people fail to think about the "what ifs". What if we break up? What if we are no longer happy where we are? I think this is a very mature way of looking at the situation and anyone strong enough to work it out and do what is best for their child should be commended. I wish my parents would have been that mature.. it's hard to find. So many parents today are greedy and treat their kids like property. It's very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted May 15, 2010 Author Share Posted May 15, 2010 I wish I had thought of the 'what if'...... I know its all in hind site now & its definitely taught me for the future.... I do hope this thread helps others to think before they just go ahead and 'do it'. What I feel sometimes is that people move to Aus thinking its a good excuse for a new start, a new future for them to start all over again..... but what if??????? yadda yadda yadda...... Hope I plant a seed in someone's mind with this thread, its so easy to just get swallowed up in love and happy endings, we refuse to accept it could go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peterd869 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 well look at me i am now divorced dying to go home but i have a son here. no hope if him coming with me. ;( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 If your ex will let you take your son back to the UK then yes and get it in writing . If not then you can apply for a relocation through the courts but its expenisve ie $60,000 and the chances are slim at getting back depending on many circumstances. You can go home anytime you like to the UK as long as your prepared to leave your son here.....and have holidays to see him.....its a huge choice for all involved both parent and child. Good Luck with what ever you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 does anyone know what happens if you come over on a leave to remove granted by the court here in the UK (I have permission to relocate with the kids) My ex is threatening to come too. I have custody and permission to live in oz, but what happens if we dont like it and want to come home A: if the ex is not in the country and B: if he is in the country and says he doesnt want us to return home? ANyone know? I want to come but I dont want to get stuck in oz if its not working out for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 does anyone know what happens if you come over on a leave to remove granted by the court here in the UK (I have permission to relocate with the kids) My ex is threatening to come too. I have custody and permission to live in oz, but what happens if we dont like it and want to come home A: if the ex is not in the country and B: if he is in the country and says he doesnt want us to return home? ANyone know? I want to come but I dont want to get stuck in oz if its not working out for us? If you and your ex are normally resident in Australia (as you would be if you both got PR) and he said that you couldnt remove your child from Australia then that would be it, you wouldnt be allowed to go. If he doesnt live in Australia then he wouldnt be in a position to demand that you stay here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Blimey, thats really harsh, I assumed, again wrongly like everyone else on here that I could come home if it wasnt working out given that I already have fought the custody fight, I will think again.... yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 Quoll, they wouldn't even both need PR for this to happen. When the parents decide on the move, and make the move, a child becomes resident overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Wether a parent comes to Australia on a temp or perm visa the parent alone does not have the legal right to go home with their child unless both parents agree. As soon as your childs feet hits the tarmac at the Australian airport the child is now resident in Australia. If you split up with your OH you can not just up and take your child back to the UK with either a perm or temp visa unless the OH agrees. You will be left to support your child on your own here in a country that will not help you money wise if your on a temp visa or unless you have had a perm resident for 2 years in Australia. This is real life if you split while living in another country away from HOME..........Also you may (big may) get back home with your child if the courts here say you can after it costing you both an average of $100,000 plus...............check out the Hague Convention Laws....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Quoll, they wouldn't even both need PR for this to happen. When the parents decide on the move, and make the move, a child becomes resident overnight. Even if they are temporary residents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Yes even if either parent only has a temporary visa....then if and when it goes to court which can take upto 18mths the judge can decide if the child goes back home with the temp parent or stays with the perm parent again at a great expense in $$$$ and mental health to child and parent. The Hague Convention Laws DO NOT seem to take into account temp or perm visas of either parents just the place of residence of the child at that time. Meanwhile the parent with the temp visa cant work and has no income......etc I know of a lady who had a temp visa and was not able to take her child home only after only 3 months she still ha a house back in the UK and it took her 18mths for it to get to court here and yes the child did go home with her but not very pleasant for the single parent and child........... living without work, money and a home.. Even if they are temporary residents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Yes even if either parent only has a temporary visa....then if and when it goes to court which can take upto 18mths the judge can decide if the child goes back home with the temp parent or stays with the perm parent again at a great expense in $$$$ and mental health to child and parent. The Hague Convention Laws DO NOT seem to take into account temp or perm visas of either parents just the place of residence of the child at that time. Meanwhile the parent with the temp visa cant work and has no income......etc I know of a lady who had a temp visa and was not able to take her child home only after only 3 months she still ha a house back in the UK and it took her 18mths for it to get to court here and yes the child did go home with her but not very pleasant for the single parent and child........... living without work, money and a home.. I can see that happening if one parent is temporary but if they are both temporary then one could surely make a case for habitual residence being elsewhere. Sure, if one parent is permanent/citizen then obviously they could make a case for this being their habitual residence. With all the insecurities of a temporary visa then I would have thought the Australian courts wouldnt have bothered. Right little minefield though, isnt it?! Let us hope that this thread serves to educate some folk and to try and prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 Yep, this is correct what pommyoz says. Even if both are on temp visas you will still be breaking the HC and will be dragged back, and have to apply to court which costs a fortune and a long time. By which the other parent will probably have their permanent visa by then anyway. The HC is not about the parents and their situation, its about removing the child without permission from the other parent. The left behind parent will also be funded his/her legal fees until the child is returned. Then from there on the parent who wants to leave has to apply to court for a leave to remove case, which takes minimum 18 months. Its a 2 part court case. I know of a couple this happened to. Both born in the UK, son born in the UK. Arrived in AU and within 6 months split up. Her visa was linked to his, so because they had split up she wasnt allowed to work or claim anything. She jumped plane with their son and was dragged back through the HC. 2yrs later she eventually won her case, but within those 2yrs she had to sell the family home back in the UK to fund her case and herself and her son. She lived off handouts from the local church and moved from home to home throughout the 2yrs. Within those 2yrs she fell in love and her son settled in school, then when she won her case was told to leave within 28 days. Her sons and her life was so torn and mixed up. Its horrid, would not wish it upon my worst enemy.... the stress, I put on 3st 13lb in 2yrs and suffered depression which almost took my life with suicidal thoughts, there is nothing worse than not knowing if you can go home or not, its a prison sentence. If your reading this, please think of your children before you go, or even if you give birth there. Discuss this with your partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockDr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Just read this thread, and my immediate reaction was that a copy of the information should probably be stickied in the migration issues forum. Many of the people who are just looking for help with visas don't necessarily read the other section of the phorum, and they are the people who really need to be made aware of the implications of the Hague Convention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brewmariannie Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Great post. Children commonly retain with their mother, and if ever this happens to me I'l let my child stay with me than with his father. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy123 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Just read this thread, and my immediate reaction was that a copy of the information should probably be stickied in the migration issues forum. Many of the people who are just looking for help with visas don't necessarily read the other section of the phorum, and they are the people who really need to be made aware of the implications of the Hague Convention. you'll find that this is a sticky thread :wubclub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy123 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Yep, this is correct what pommyoz says. Even if both are on temp visas you will still be breaking the HC and will be dragged back, and have to apply to court which costs a fortune and a long time. By which the other parent will probably have their permanent visa by then anyway. The HC is not about the parents and their situation, its about removing the child without permission from the other parent. The left behind parent will also be funded his/her legal fees until the child is returned. Then from there on the parent who wants to leave has to apply to court for a leave to remove case, which takes minimum 18 months. Its a 2 part court case. I know of a couple this happened to. Both born in the UK, son born in the UK. Arrived in AU and within 6 months split up. Her visa was linked to his, so because they had split up she wasnt allowed to work or claim anything. She jumped plane with their son and was dragged back through the HC. 2yrs later she eventually won her case, but within those 2yrs she had to sell the family home back in the UK to fund her case and herself and her son. She lived off handouts from the local church and moved from home to home throughout the 2yrs. Within those 2yrs she fell in love and her son settled in school, then when she won her case was told to leave within 28 days. Her sons and her life was so torn and mixed up. Its horrid, would not wish it upon my worst enemy.... the stress, I put on 3st 13lb in 2yrs and suffered depression which almost took my life with suicidal thoughts, there is nothing worse than not knowing if you can go home or not, its a prison sentence. If your reading this, please think of your children before you go, or even if you give birth there. Discuss this with your partner. The problem is, when you're in love you would never want to hurt the other person and all the talking and agrements are great until 1 person is hurt, and wants to hurt the other back.......... Hopefully common sence comes into play at some point :policeman: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 Just read this thread, and my immediate reaction was that a copy of the information should probably be stickied in the migration issues forum. Many of the people who are just looking for help with visas don't necessarily read the other section of the phorum, and they are the people who really need to be made aware of the implications of the Hague Convention. Yes I agree, Mods - as well as being a sticky on 'Chat' forum, please can this be a sticky on the 'Migration Issues' forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whopperdaisy Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 I'm another one stuck here. Broke up with my ex when he was on a temp visa, he was extremely abusive. I am not allowed to leave with my child. I can't even go on holiday. My parents are not getting any younger and will soon be too old to make the flight here, so I am very conscious that I may never see them again. My child misses out on doting grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. Thank heavens for the internet. My ex had been in the country a year when we escaped with nothing but our clothes and some spare nappies. I was able to prove the violence but the courts here do not consider that to be much of an issue it seems when it comes to custody. The court system is horribly expensive and takes years. As was pointed out, you can't rely on child support here and a huge proportion either underpay or don't pay at all (I read 50% I think somewhere else). I have also found that the police attitude towards domestic situations is very dated, to say the least. I could say I wish I read this thread a few years ago but the reality is, I didn't think it would happen to me. I will make the best of my situation because it is better than the alternative but somewhere that seems idyllic can seem like a prison. I think it is well worth checking the legal options before getting on the plane, and if you're considering starting a family, at least wait a while after you arrive to see how you feel after the honeymoon period is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 As a result of reading this thread I am having a clause put in my agreement that we can return home to the UK unopposed if required - thats if the kids dad does come to Australia after we have gone there so thank goodness I read this before we arrived - I would never have realised but now I do I am covering my own backside!! Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted August 3, 2010 Author Share Posted August 3, 2010 As a result of reading this thread I am having a clause put in my agreement that we can return home to the UK unopposed if required - thats if the kids dad does come to Australia after we have gone there so thank goodness I read this before we arrived - I would never have realised but now I do I am covering my own backside!! Yay! Your welcome, I'm pleased I've helped one family see the implications of this law All the best to you xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brisvegasgirl Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Great post and very interesting! I always told myself I would never marry an Aussie as didn't want to be trapped here incase I ever wanted to return to my homeland...and then I fell in love, and as they say 'love is blind' and we sometimes rush into things without thinking everything through. 13 years and 4 children later I am more homesick than ever, with children who are not keen on starting a new life in the UK and a hubby that doesn't like taking risks and is happy to stay where we are until such a time as he can be gauranteed of a good paying job in the UK and as a machine operator for Coca Cola, the pay is not that fantastic here or there. I think he uses that as an excuse sometimes as he knows he will never get a high paying job in the UK therefore we will never be able to move and he wins. If I had no hubby and no kids I would go back and get it out of my system it that's all I need to do...I could up and take the kids but can't take them away from thier father and I could not bear to be away from them for too long. He has told me to go - but the kids couldn't follow me. So here I am...trapped in a country by circumstances and absolutely kicking myself! OH to be young and carefree again I say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36187 Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I have reposted the original post here. Many people may not have trailled back and seen it and may want a reminder, Children - what happens if you/your partner decide to go home..... Hague Convention If you are thinking of moving to Australia with children I would advise this.... Or even - if your in Australia and wish to take your children home to the UK to live..... Sit down and discuss what you would both like to happen with your children if your dream of living in Australia isn't what you expected/you separate/in the event one of you chooses to go back home? Too many scenarios to note all - you get the jist! Do you a) Children stay with Mother, regardless of where she chooses to live? b) Children stay with Father, regardless of where he chooses to live? c) You both stay in Australia so the children can have both parents? d) You both go back home to the UK? e) May have other thoughts! Did you know this? Once you have both made the decision to move to Australia, as soon as you land - the Children are now residents of Australia? If one of you decided to go back home, you will need your partners permission to take the children, yes - even if ALL of you were born and have lived your whole lives in the UK. If you leave & take the children with you, without the other parents permission, regardless of your circumstances (eg..separated, no money, no house, no job, Isolation etc etc), and the stay behind parent pursues you - - You may have the police knocking on your door in the UK, you may be charged with child abduction. Yes, even if the child was born and raised in the UK. You would have broken a law called the 'Hague Convention'. Once the police come knocking you may then be summoned to court under the Hague Convention, and more than likely (99%) the children will be ordered back to Australia. Then once in Australia you will then have to go through the courts in Australia to apply to have your child/ren relocate with you back to the UK! And you may not win. Long winded I know, but this is a law that is not mentioned in many places. This is a law that those tempting 'Move to Australia for a better life' TV programs etc don't mention, this is a law that the Immigration don't mention. Its a law people have never heard of unless it happens to them. This happens to many people each year, and is something that I believe people need to know about in case it happens to them, or they know someone who it may affect. Take precautions before the move, talk about the children's future's, and get it in writing with a Solicitor! Take a good look at your visa restrictions - are you coming due to your Spouse's trade? Whats the restrictions on the other parents visa if you separate within the 1st 2 yrs? Doing this may save you years within the legal system, over $150,000 in costs, your children's mental wellbeing, health, stress, poverty and years wasted. I hope this post helps someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Great post and very interesting!I always told myself I would never marry an Aussie as didn't want to be trapped here incase I ever wanted to return to my homeland...and then I fell in love, and as they say 'love is blind' and we sometimes rush into things without thinking everything through. 13 years and 4 children later I am more homesick than ever, with children who are not keen on starting a new life in the UK and a hubby that doesn't like taking risks and is happy to stay where we are until such a time as he can be gauranteed of a good paying job in the UK and as a machine operator for Coca Cola, the pay is not that fantastic here or there. I think he uses that as an excuse sometimes as he knows he will never get a high paying job in the UK therefore we will never be able to move and he wins. If I had no hubby and no kids I would go back and get it out of my system it that's all I need to do...I could up and take the kids but can't take them away from thier father and I could not bear to be away from them for too long. He has told me to go - but the kids couldn't follow me. So here I am...trapped in a country by circumstances and absolutely kicking myself! OH to be young and carefree again I say! Yup, those bl**dy Aussie men can be the death of you!:hug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy123 Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Yup, those bl**dy Aussie men can be the death of you!:hug: Hey you bugger off :biglaugh: btw I think Tracy would agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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