Children - what happens if you/your partner decide to go home.....

[Guest Devon Lass]

If you are thinking of moving to Australia with children I would advise this....

 

Or even - if your in Australia and wish to take your children home to the UK to live.....

 

Sit down and discuss what you would both like to happen with your children if your dream of living in Australia isn't what you expected/you separate/in the event one of you chooses to go back home? Too many scenarios to note all - you get the jist!

 

Do you

a) Children stay with Mother, regardless of where she chooses to live?

b) Children stay with Father, regardless of where he chooses to live?

c) You both stay in Australia so the children can have both parents?

d) You both go back home to the UK?

e) May have other thoughts!

 

Did you know this? Once you have both made the decision to move to Australia, as soon as you land - the Children are now residents of Australia?

 

If one of you decided to go back home, you will need your partners permission to take the children, yes - even if ALL of you were born and have lived your whole lives in the UK.

 

If you leave & take the children with you, without the other parents permission, regardless of your circumstances (eg..separated, no money, no house, no job, Isolation etc etc), and the stay behind parent pursues you -

 

- You may have the police knocking on your door in the UK, you may be charged with child abduction. Yes, even if the child was born and raised in the UK. You would have broken a law called the 'Hague Convention'.

 

Once the police come knocking you may then be summoned to court under the Hague Convention, and more than likely (99%) the children will be ordered back to Australia.

 

Then once in Australia you will then have to go through the courts in Australia to apply to have your child/ren relocate with you back to the UK! And you may not win.

 

Long winded I know, but this is a law that is not mentioned in many places. This is a law that those tempting 'Move to Australia for a better life' TV programs etc don't mention, this is a law that the Immigration don't mention. Its a law people have never heard of unless it happens to them. This happens to many people each year, and is something that I believe people need to know about in case it happens to them, or they know someone who it may affect.

 

Take precautions before the move, talk about the children's future's, and get it in writing with a Solicitor!

 

Take a good look at your visa restrictions - are you coming due to your Spouse's trade? Whats the restrictions on the other parents visa if you separate within the 1st 2 yrs?

 

Doing this may save you years within the legal system, over $150,000 in costs, your children's mental wellbeing, health, stress, poverty and years wasted.

 

I hope this post helps someone.

Yes I wish I knew all this before moving out here nearly 4 years ago. I have been married to my Australian husband for 14 years whom I met in UK and have two adorable children, one born here the other in Uk. Since coming here our marriage has hit a huge crisis as I want to go home and he doesn't , this has caused enormous stress and breakdown between us. Last year I sat in a solicters and was told I could only go back to Uk with kids and his permission which he will NEVER give. I am living just an existance here in a very unhappy marraige with no family/ friends for support to leave. I am so angry that I made this stupid decision 4 years ago to come here and can't bear the thought that my life and where I live be didicated too after I have given up everything for this man. What happend to human rights and freedom of speech - this Hague Law is not worth the paper it is written on and mades me so angry

[Quoll]

Yes I wish I knew all this before moving out here nearly 4 years ago. I have been married to my Australian husband for 14 years whom I met in UK and have two adorable children, one born here the other in Uk. Since coming here our marriage has hit a huge crisis as I want to go home and he doesn't , this has caused enormous stress and breakdown between us. Last year I sat in a solicters and was told I could only go back to Uk with kids and his permission which he will NEVER give. I am living just an existance here in a very unhappy marraige with no family/ friends for support to leave. I am so angry that I made this stupid decision 4 years ago to come here and can't bear the thought that my life and where I live be didicated too after I have given up everything for this man. What happend to human rights and freedom of speech - this Hague Law is not worth the paper it is written on and mades me so angry

 

:hug::hug: sadly, you arent the first to have discovered this. I hope you can sort something out

[Guest Devon Lass]

I hear you and have been put in exactly that same situation - its just awful , my children are still relatively young but can absorb just how unhappy Mummy is here - you are right - love is blind, but so is ignorance and denial on these men

wish you luck - chin up x

Louise

[whopperdaisy]

Hi there, I know it is very tough to be in this situation, I am a single mum here who cannot return home as well. Not sure where you are located but you are very welcome to PM me and I will help you if I can, sometimes it is good just to be able to vent to someone in the same boat! Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[2tigers]

I wish there was a clause with Immigration, which allowed the parent to return home with the children within a certain period of time if they did not settle. Unfortunately even if you decide to go home the very next day after you've landed, the HC can be brought in and your children will be ordered to return. Reason being is that both parents have made a conscious decision to immigrate then the child automatically becomes resident overnight. Its a prison sentence to so many Mums.

 

There is hope. I won my court case and I am now home..... I know I am one of the minority and I know I am one hell of a lucky lady. But the mess I was in, if I was made to stay I honestly don't believe I would be alive right now. What a hell of a journey.

 

Good luck to those who are fighting to get home xxx

[Quoll]

I wish there was a clause with Immigration, which allowed the parent to return home with the children within a certain period of time if they did not settle. Unfortunately even if you decide to go home the very next day after you've landed, the HC can be brought in and your children will be ordered to return. Reason being is that both parents have made a conscious decision to immigrate then the child automatically becomes resident overnight. Its a prison sentence to so many Mums.

 

There is hope. I won my court case and I am now home..... I know I am one of the minority and I know I am one hell of a lucky lady. But the mess I was in, if I was made to stay I honestly don't believe I would be alive right now. What a hell of a journey.

 

Good luck to those who are fighting to get home xxx

 

You are certainly one of the lucky ones 2tigers - I havent heard of anyone else actually getting permission to leave when it has been contested. You must have had an extraordinarily enlightened judge!!!

[Guest deebbzz]

hi

sorry to hear about all of you stuck here the law just sucks sometimes.

i know someone who has just split with her partner of 15yrs as he left her on mothers day to move in with another women which they are now getting married next yr. sucks.

just a quick question she is going on holiday back to the uk for xmas can he stop her? there is nothing in court no mediation. and they want to visit family.

[Peach]

----- my facts were wrong :biggrin:----

[whopperdaisy]

Yes, if he chooses to he can stop her, he could also do a lot to ruin her Christmas/holiday if he chose. He can apply to have the children put on an airport stop list should he consider they are likely to leave the country. His permission is in theory required for the children to travel. Strongly suggest your friend talks to a lawyer soon.

[Guest guest22466]

Yes, if he chooses to he can stop her, he could also do a lot to ruin her Christmas/holiday if he chose. He can apply to have the children put on an airport stop list should he consider they are likely to leave the country. His permission is in theory required for the children to travel. Strongly suggest your friend talks to a lawyer soon.

Yes your right If I was you I would get something in writing from the solicitors to say that the other parent says its ok for you to travel for a holidays with the children . The reason I say this is that once your on your holidays the other parent can say that you abducted the children and they were not aware that you was going.....you will then be met by police who will take your passports and return tickets........and you will have to go to the high court in London to prove you did not abduct your child and that it is a holiday..then you will always be seen in any country or any courts eyes as taking the child away from the other parent and if you was to ever apply to relocate you would be seen as an abductor and the relocation would be declined.........How do I know this because it happened to me.....Im not saying the other parent will do that but now I have court orders to say I can take our child for holidays and our child is on the airport watch list and for all you know the children may all ready be on the airport watch list. I still get stopped by the airport police every time I travel with my child. The high court in Lonodn just advised me to return back to Australia after my holidays and to collect our passprts and return tickets a few days before our travel back to Australia. Hope this helps...you can chance it but its up to you ...depends on your relationship with the other parent really......All the best

[Guest guest22466]

I wish there was a clause with Immigration, which allowed the parent to return home with the children within a certain period of time if they did not settle. Unfortunately even if you decide to go home the very next day after you've landed, the HC can be brought in and your children will be ordered to return. Reason being is that both parents have made a conscious decision to immigrate then the child automatically becomes resident overnight. Its a prison sentence to so many Mums.

 

There is hope. I won my court case and I am now home..... I know I am one of the minority and I know I am one hell of a lucky lady. But the mess I was in, if I was made to stay I honestly don't believe I would be alive right now. What a hell of a journey.

 

Good luck to those who are fighting to get home xxx

 

 

2tigers You was very lucky to be able to return home and now there is this 50/50 custody law in Australia makes it harder for parents to return home with the children. Honest no one has any idea how things will turn out in the future. You come to Australia like everyone else hoping for a better life for your family but in some cases this does not happen and you cant just go back home to your home, family and friends with your children if the other parent is happy in Australia and wants to see the children. Even if the other parent then reduces time with the children and pays $5 per week in CSA payments lol sorry had to get that one in...............but yes you just have to hang in there .......and hang and hang lol My ex does not have or want 50/50 custody but we still had to stay here .......

[Peach]

and the same goes if it is the mother that loves it and the husband wants to return home with the kids. lol sorry had to get that one in.......

[Guest guest22466]

and the same goes if it is the mother that loves it and the husband wants to return home with the kids. lol sorry had to get that one in.......

Yes your right it does not matter if it is the mother or the father who wants to return home the situation is still the same with regards to the the children. However it does help if the parent that is making the other parent stay does the right thing by their children once they are here.....

[Guest fernanb8521]

Is it like a daycare canter Kate wherein children are taken care of? This is good source of information as well as the Hague Convention mentioned on the first part of this thread. Our children are the main reason for our existence and all the hard work that were doing right now. And their welfare and safety, the right to a good education and a family is worth fighting for. It's such a shame that some unions like marriages never last and the children are the victims.

[Wishful]

I agree with you pommy oz , In my case the father does as little as possible . pays as little as possible but then says he could not bear to be seperated from his precious children.... If he was honest the only reason he fights so hard to keep us here is to spite me ..... I agree it is all about the kids but SOMETIMES it is best that the parent the child lives with is in a good mental place ...here I honestly believe that the courts favour the father most times , the pendulum has swung so far back the other way......SO be very careful if you are coming here with kids !!! x

[Guest sazzle76]

This is a v interesting thread as my oh and I split up not long afta our pr visas were granted.

Ex says he will not stop me taking the children to oz but he will go also to be able to see his boys.

My solicitor has suggested we draw up an agreement prior to leaving the Uk whereby every eventuality has been discussed. Ie if me and the boys are settled he wants to return or vice versa.

Luckily we can still get on enuf to talk about this.. Well depending on wot day o the week it is lol.. But seriously I have been told it's easier to sort here in the Uk as it can take years to sort with oz solicitors.

My fear is... Will a Uk drawn up agreement stand up in an oz court if breached?

It's all v complicated!

[2tigers]

Hi sazzle76,

 

I am not legally trained by all means, but from my experience, legal documents drawn up in either country are considered in the other country. I would definitely make sure its agreed in writing what will happen to the children in any event. And I would make sure its done in the UK before you leave.

 

AU is a different ball game than UK when it comes to children and parents. The ball is definitely in the fathers court in AU, so many times I have read and spoken to people who can not leave AU because the father will not allow it. Even though a lot of cases, he doesn't spend time with the children and has done all he can to avoid paying for them. Unfortunately in AU things like that the courts aren't interested in, it doesn't matter if the father cant find time to see the children or pay for them, the courts only want to make sure the access is there if he wants it. Its very very backwards.

 

Another gripe of mine is this - why is it a father can move away from his children and not have to get permission? It should go both ways.....

[whopperdaisy]

I am also not a legal expert but I do know that a parent can apply to have an Austraian made order varied, so presumably they could apply for an overseas agreement to be varied too.

[2tigers]

Also, just been discussing with someone so thought I should elaborate on here - anyone looking to get any kind of 'Order' from a court, note that if the wording 'Undertakings' is used instead of 'Order' this is not as enforceable as an actual 'Order'. The term 'Undertakings' is actually just the other person saying they 'Promise' to do something. If they break it, there isn't really much legally you can do. It would be noted in court and wouldn't look too favourably on the other person if they did break their 'Promise', but the outcome wouldn't be as strong as if the wording was 'Order'. If the wording is 'Ordered by consent' this is still and 'Order' but just the other person has agreed to it, instead of a Judge making the decision. Hope I've not confused anyone!

[Guest alimorley]

This is exactly what happened to me, my marriage broke down after 6 years of being here and even though I wnated to go back my ex partner did not. I was left witht he choice of staying here unhappy or leaving my kids, not a nice choice. i stayed and tryed to make the best of things not easy, so if you think of moving here consider what will happen if things go pear shaped.:frown:

[whopperdaisy]

This is exactly what happened to me, my marriage broke down after 6 years of being here and even though I wnated to go back my ex partner did not. I was left witht he choice of staying here unhappy or leaving my kids, not a nice choice. i stayed and tryed to make the best of things not easy, so if you think of moving here consider what will happen if things go pear shaped.:frown:

 

It can feel like an almost impossible choice can't it? My sympathy, this is hard. There are several of us on here, I hope that this outlet can provide some comfort for you as it does for me. The best thing we can do is make the most of our situation, as you said, and try our best to ensure the impact on us does not impact our kids. :hug:

[Guest bacardi167]

great post and much welcomed..just one question..

 

Is the Haugue law not a european law.? does it then aply in aus / usa / artic circle ?

 

I dont know so i thought id ask..

 

I know a lot of european law is not enforcableout here. For ex: Even if a baliff comes to your front door they cannot force you to pay a cent in this country..trust me i know !!

 

would love a bit more info on this ...not fro myself; but other posters on this board !!

[Peach]

As of 1 March 2006, the Convention is in force for the following States:

 

Australia, The Czech Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Monaco, Morocco, Slovakia and Slovenia.

 

It has been signed by all other EU States (except Malta) and Switzerland.

 

Hungary ratified the Convention on 13 January 2006 (entry into force 1 May 2006);

 

Bulgaria acceded to the Convention on 8 March 2006 (entry into force: 1 February 2007).

 

The United States signed the Convention on 22 October 2010.

 

Hague Convention 1996 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[2tigers]

As of 1 March 2006, the Convention is in force for the following States:

 

Australia, The Czech Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Monaco, Morocco, Slovakia and Slovenia.

 

It has been signed by all other EU States (except Malta) and Switzerland.

 

Hungary ratified the Convention on 13 January 2006 (entry into force 1 May 2006);

 

Bulgaria acceded to the Convention on 8 March 2006 (entry into force: 1 February 2007).

 

The United States signed the Convention on 22 October 2010.

 

Hague Convention 1996 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

There's actually about 78 signatories. Not many countries left in the world now that don't enforce the HC.

[Guest guest22466]

This is exactly what happened to me, my marriage broke down after 6 years of being here and even though I wnated to go back my ex partner did not. I was left witht he choice of staying here unhappy or leaving my kids, not a nice choice. i stayed and tryed to make the best of things not easy, so if you think of moving here consider what will happen if things go pear shaped.:frown:

 

Exactly what happened to me too. I think it is a good idea to get doucments set up in the UK BEFORE leaving to another unknown country with an unknown future.

 

I remember in court here in OZ 7 years ago when I was advised my relocation had been declined my ex said to me... I can understand why you want to go back home to the UK but I am better off here financially. Hence why he got the house here, pays $5 in CSA a week, lives rent free with his mother at the ripe old age of 47..while I lost my house in the Uk with only only a $300 a month mortgage and stuggle like crazy here while the ex only sees his son once every 2 weeks and keeps taking me to court as he wants me to pick and drop for contact (which the judge keeps telling him to get lost) thank goodness....they are now seeing the real situation for what it really is.....

 

Our problems within the marriage were also that my ex was not happy here and would drink himself into a mess.....and still does to this day.....he calls his son and has trouble getting his words out.....but all Australia sees is that the other parent has the right to see his children regardless of any other issues unless the child is been harmed by the parent.

 

Back in the UK my son and I would have had a roof over our heads , a great school, great jobs , lots of family and friends instead its the opposite for us while he lives on easy street calling the shots.............We had only been in Australia 18 months not years just months. My son is now 3 years behind in his schooling which the system here would not help with due to not enough money to help the children who struggle within the school system. The school I wanted him to go to in the UK was great in helping children of all standards as the ofsted reports proved it.

 

So just think about it before you come to Australia ......it runs longer and deeper than you can think. I so want to go back home but could not leave my son ...but one day when he is older I may return and he may stay here which is still not a good situation ...he is an only child . We have more family and friends in the Uk than here and I went back this year after 7 years of not been able to take my son back and gees I miss my people...........my son had a ball there but Australia is now his home but not mine....

 

My exs family here are not the same type of people as back in the UK. One nephew here is in drug rehab and my son goes to visit him with his dad not something I had wished for my son to do on his weekends with his father...but the courts know best ...NOT.

 

My agrument is if the father was that bothered to be in his childs life then he would move back home too...we both have more family and friends in the UK ....

 

I am the one who provides for our child and takes care of him ON MY OWN HERE.....he only has to pay his $5 a week while earning $60 per hour self employed and the income from his rental, his family look after his son while he goes out and gets drunk on the weekends ...why would he want to return it may mean he would have to grow up and take responsibilty for himself...

 

Do I think that it is always in the childs best interest no I dont but the AUSTRALIAN courts do. So just watch before you leap.

 

This post I think is one of the most important posts on the site as if effects so many people...not just you and your family here but also your family back in the UK who want to help you but cant as your so far away......

 

You have to be strong and the way I get through it is thinking ....nothing I can do about it now and well it wont be forever....but who knows it might be and thats my life in a nutshell living in a place I dont want to be and doing it tough.....

 

Take Care to everyone in the same situation and so wished we all knew then what we know now......as the saying goes.

 

Thats why putting this IMPORTANT information on the migration forms would help people think twice or at least prepare them for what might be to come if things dont work out here. I came to Australia thinking Uk is still my home and I still have our UK passports.....that means NOTHING once you land on Australia soil....the Hague Convention Laws start to kick the MINUTE you land in Australia.