2tigers Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Now that you have read this thread and aware of this law, I would say sit down with your partner and discuss this if you have children or planning to have them. Come to a decision that you both agree on before the move & put it in writing. With a solicitor if possible, at the time you write your wills before coming may be good timing. If you can't agree on what future you want for the children then it may be best to take a long hard think about your future. When buying a car, you check the whole thing over - its history, its MPG, its costs, its wheels, engine, seats, stereo.... every single detail, a lot is gone into making sure its the right decision! Same can be said for a house etc. Unfortunately some us don't put as much homework into life, we tend to go with our hearts. That's when trouble raises its head. We even buy insurances to cover any potential problems. I went with my heart with blinkers on, no plan 'B', and went through hell when it fell apart, a huge learning curve. Thankfully I am one of the few who get to go home. Not many do. Its better to be informed than to go through what I and many others have done. I don't wish my situation on anyone....... VISA's - do your homework. What happens to your visa if you separate? What can you claim? Are you allowed to stay in the country? Some visas only cover the spouse if they stay together...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Thank you for your post litlesarah ,you did not come across like that way at all and your right about knowing what the situation can be if things do not go according to plan. I really do think that this information should be given to EVERY person migrating on the paperwork when applying to live to another country just so no one will come unprepared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Bumping this thread please read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sazzle76 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 This thread has been a great help to me. Thanks to everyone! During our visa application my partner and I have had an huge unexpected upheaval in our relationship and are now, trying to rebuild our 15 yrs together. Luckily, we still feel like oz is the break away from the 'demons' that we need. I would never have thought that I couldnt return home with my kids if our relationship didnt work out and after discussing it he has agreed to return to the UK with us if all else fails so Im not alone in oz with no family support! Easier said than done I know, so I am gonna make sure we have a legal document drawn up before we finally go. I can see that it has been very hard for a few of you and my heart goes out to you dearly. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 sazzle76 maybe look at contacting the Hague Convention Law to see if the document you draw up would overide the law and I would seek legal advice in the UK to be on the safe side before coming. I only know what has happened to myself and so many other parents here and would not wish it on any parent and their children. I hope things do work out for you as a family here in Australia at least you come knowing more than I did. Take care, love and look after each other when you do decide to move. Wishing you all the best ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest21235 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 This is an enlightening thread - many thanks and as always ... "Vis Per Scientiam" Best regards to you all Ely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AndyJo&Lewis Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hi, What would happen to a child from the UK if say Mum & Dad was killed in car crash? A morbid thought I know, but would the child naturally go back to the UK to live with Grandparents or would they be the property of the Australian state, which ever that may be? Would we have to state something in a will and would that stand up against the convention? Many questions I know, but this thread is thought provoking. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Andyjo&Lewis I have to be honest I do not know the answer to your question but maybe see about getting a will together which states where and who would take care of the children in such a situation and forward a copy of this will to your families back in the UK. I would seek legal advice as I am really not sure. It is a good and realistic question if you dont have family here in Australia who would care for your children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobinOz Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Wow. This thread is a real eye opener. I never knew. But when my wife and I emigrated here with our very young daughter, she is now five, we did go and see a solicitor here. The purpose was to create a will, as we had heard that if you die in Australia without one, just like in England, things can get pretty tricky. In the process of creating that will, we have also given instructions as to who should take custody of our daughter in the event of both of us dying. As we have both agreed and signed on this basis, I'm sure it is now in tablets of stone. Although we have selected for our daughter to be taken care of here in Australia and not returned to the UK. But I would suggest everyone goes to see a solicitor and makes a will and if you have children, make legal arrangements for their custody. This is a great thread, thanks for starting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
restfamily Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 It certainly does happen. Marriages fail, families seperate, for me the move crystalised what was important in my life. After 18 months here my husband and I seperated. Thankfully due to us both considering why we moved here in the first instance we both agreed remaining here was the best thing. its not quite been a year but we are both rebuilding our lives here, much to our families back home surprise. Our reasons for moving remain unchanged by divorce and I guess its reassuring to know we moved for the "right reasons". I do worry if one day i want to go home, but then its no different to wanting to move witin the country. I wish we had discussed it first, but we didnt, I am just lucky for now we are both happy here. Good luck to you all, remember emigration can drag up stuff you never thought would be an issue in your relationship / life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest julesey Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 crikey, wish i had read this a while ago! J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adamsnee Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 usually the law gives the children to her mother - which is actually mostly the better choice, because they recommend it considering the maternal instinct and the caress of a mother - well actually of the perfect mother, which is, as we all know, not always behind the facade. Nevertheless in certain cases the father gets the children if he can prove violential acts by the mother or drug abusive situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest krysiajay Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hi All Great post. What can be done before the move. Would an agreement between both parents which is done through a solicitor be good enough. Would the agreement which is signed in the UK stand up in Oz. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest21235 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hi All Great post. What can be done before the move. Would an agreement between both parents which is done through a solicitor be good enough. Would the agreement which is signed in the UK stand up in Oz. cheers That's a great question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ktr Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 It's nice to know i'm not alone. My husband and i have been living in oz for about 14 years now, and it looks like our marriage is crumbling. We have 2 kids, both born in oz, he's wanting to stay here while i am wanting to return to uk, i feel like i want the support of my family and friends if we are to be seperated. The worst part is i still desperately love him.....just feeling so sad at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ktr First I reall do hope that you and your husband can sort something out before you go down the track of divorce here in Australia. As I have been through all this myself and for you to be able to relocate with your children back to the UK without your husbands permission it is VERY hard to go back to the UK. I was only in Australia for 18 months and still had a house back in the UK and the courts refused the relocation case at a cost of $55,0000 as the child has the right to see both parents we were all born in the UK , met and married in the UK .You are not allowed to take your children back to the UK as you can be charged with child abduction HAGUE CONVENTION LAWS...even if you were all born in the UK it matters where the children reside at that time of seperation. Many migrants like myself blindly did not know that I would NOT be able to return home with my child if things did not work out in another country. I was only given a temporary visa at first aswell so yes bit of a shock really........ When you move to another country just be aware of the laws with regards to children , you can go home any day but without your children which most of us will not do so. Its a huge risk to take moving to another country if things dont work out but if you are warned before hand then maybe you can be prepared not that it changes much. Nothing in life is a set in stone even jobs, relationships, health etc but I wish I would have known more before I came to Australia. I should have asked the question really but like most just thought we are all uk born with uk passports. It is great for the families who love , live and stay together here in Australia but for the ones where it has gone pear shaped through no fault of there own it is pretty hard. You learn to live with it because this is the way it is and you learn to live the best life you can for your children and yourself. I hope in my heart that this situation does not arise for any other people on this site and many others who migrate to another country not just Australia. Try to sort things out first then you know you have done your best . We did the counselling but it did not change things but at least you can say you tried. Be strong and hang in there.xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 That's a great question Having been through it all here. My answer would be to still DO an agreement back in the UK wether it will stand up in the Australian courts is another question and im sure is a question that can not be answered until it went to court. Maybe check out the HAGUE CONVENTION LAWS .Also to have the agreement is better than not to also state in the agreement for how long it stands 2years or lifetime????? It would be best to contact the legal systems in the UK and Australia. We had a verbal agreement but thats not good enough so yes I would get a legal agreement drawn up in the UK it can not be of any harm but at the same time it may not stand up in the Australian Courts. Remember the court costs to apply to relocate start from $30,000 to $120,000 plus....... Read the Hague Convention Laws as this is the law that prevents you from taking your children back home to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The courts in Australia see that the child has the legal right to see both parents and the child should reside in the country of residence which would be Australia. So the mother does not get the right to take the child back home away from the father and it works the other way around too. Each case is looked at different but the main statement is the child has the right to see both parents and now the 50/50 custody laws are here in Australia it will be harder to just return home with your children wether it be the mother or the father that wants to return home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Every now and again I pop on here, and each time I end up so sad reading about people stuck in AU and not able to go home. I wish Immigration would put a leaflet in their paperwork, explaining what you can and can not do. Its a law and its not publicized. I still suffer with the traumas I went through back in AU. My court case lasted almost 2yrs. The trial was 12 days. I know I am one of the fortunate ones. My heart goes to those who can not come home. If you are unfortunate enough to be caught up in the HC contact "Reunite" in the UK, they are experts in this field and are a charity. They gave me invaluable advice and support. Reunite International Best of luck xxxxx Edited July 8, 2013 by 2tigers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 2tigers thank you once again for your post. I agree with you 100% with regards to the leaflet in the migration paperwork but as we know that would not be good business for the Immigration Dept what other reason would they not advise people. I am glad you got to go back home but you are one of the lucky ones as many do NOT get to go back home as you know and it is costly and takes a mental strain on yourself and your children. It has devasting results for everyone and more so the remaining parent caring for the children on their own in another country away from the help and support of people who love them. After 6 years I feel like I am in prison and my ex still enjoys every year taking me back to court as he does not want to have to pick and drop for contact of his child that he fought so hard to keep in this country, lucky for me the judges have seen through the childs father at last and the last court hearing he was advised to do the right thing by his child or the courts will look at my relocation case again....its a mess and a real shame for the children and main carer has to go through its like a life sentence. Just to add insult to injury the father pays $5 per week in CSA which the ATO allows and accepts....so dont think the Australian CSA or ATO will see you and your child right here in Australia because it will not. The other parent may tell the courts they will do the right thing while in the court room to the judge on the relocation case but for many its a different story once the order of relocation is declined and you walk out of the court room. Please think twice before you move to another country with children or even when you get here and decide to have children. I know its not a nice thing to think about but it is the truth and reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest22466 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 If over 5,000 people have read this post then it is over 5,000 know what the situation is and that can only be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 I feel you may have posted on the wrong thread? Or do you need some help with regards to the Hague Convention and, or, International Relocation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest meme Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Fortunately, i am one of the lucky ones, i moved to oz with my 2 young children & husband, but he was only their step father (i changed their name by deed poll to his), we were happily married until we emmigrated to oz, but after 6 months the stain of living there reared it's ugly head, i hated it, he loved it, i came back with the kids, which, at the time was a verystressful & traumatic decision to do alone, without having the drama of him stopping me taking the kids back with me, so i feel very very sorry for women in the situation of having to fight or being trapped on oz and not being able to come home with the children, as the decision to come back and leave a marriage is tough enough as it is. i am just SO glad he wasn't there bioligical dad and i didn't have to go through that. We are so happy back in the uk now, i couldn't even bear the though of still being over there trapped because i couldn't come back with the children. I agree though, they SHOULD make people so much more aware of the the situation when you apply to emmigrate with children, what will happen should one of you decide to come home. Very good subject to make people aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tri16 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hi, thanks so much for this post!! Sorry about your situation pommyoz!! Im in a similar situation, as my daughter can stay here with my ex husband, but I dont have a visa to stay!! What a nightmare, I think immigration should be looking at something for out of ordinary cases. If I dont get a visa sorted I have to leave my 10 year old daughter (who I have brought up on my own for 9 years), and go back to the UK. Mad!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi, thanks so much for this post!! Sorry about your situation pommyoz!! Im in a similar situation, as my daughter can stay here with my ex husband, but I dont have a visa to stay!! What a nightmare, I think immigration should be looking at something for out of ordinary cases. If I dont get a visa sorted I have to leave my 10 year old daughter (who I have brought up on my own for 9 years), and go back to the UK. Mad!!! Yep, its mad alright! Sadly enough your not the 1st one to have walked that path either. Please seek legal advice ASAP. If your ex husband does not agree to your daughter going home with you, you will have to apply to the court for an international relocation on the grounds that you can not stay in the country. If there is no way whatsoever that you can get a visa to stay, and your the main carer, from what I can see you should be able to take her home. BUT it could take a long time in court and lots of money & I am not of legal background. Maybe you could try to get your ex to do some mediation, which would mean you both tell your side of the story to someone trained to listen, and try to come to an agreement before it hits court. If you can do that, you will save a lot of money, time and heartache. Also, not sure what the age is where the courts listen to a child, but at age 10 they have their own thoughts in my opinion. Best of luck xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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