Teaching couple weighing up options… any insight appreciated!

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

The simple fact is someone living (like the OP) in the SE of England is used to being in a more dense area within spitting distance of the greatest city on the planet. 

Ah, if you'd said that, I wouldn't have disagreed with you (though I'd question whether London is the greatest city on the planet). 

However what you actually said that anywhere outside Sydney or Melbourne is 'nowheresville'.  That's the equivalent of saying anywhere outside the Home Counties is 'nowheresville'.   

I suppose (hope) you were using exaggeration for humorous effect, but I couldn't let it go, because both those statements ignore the many reasonably-sized cities which exist in both countries, outside those areas.   "Nowheresville" implies they are all Hicksville, which they certainly are not, in both countries.  I couldn't let you get away with that.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Marisawright

[Blue Flu]

On 02/02/2023 at 04:31, Ausvisitor said:

I get your point, I was saying it from the point of someone who is a city dweller.

If I lived in London I'd say the same of wymeswold (which is lovely and very desirable but unless you really know your UK geography you just went "where's that..." and that's what I mean)

You are quite correct of course. Even Australia's bigger cities will appear somewhat lame in comparison with London, when comparing for vibe, arts, culture, internationalism, geographic location, public transport options,  to name a few. 

Hence living regionally may well seem parochial, small town type existence. This may or may not prove to be a hinderance. It depends on expectations and personal preferences. Never understood why some get so defensive and attempt to argue otherwise. 

[Marisawright]

14 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

You are quite correct of course. Even Australia's bigger cities will appear somewhat lame in comparison with London

Well, naturally they would.  I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.   That's not what we're talking about.

[Ken]

18 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

Maybe not, but all of those are bigger than any non capital city in Australia (and many capitals) so the comparison doesn't really stand

 

18 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Really?  Did you check or are you just making assumptions?  

Bristol, Edinburgh and Glasgow are only around half a million people.  Similar in size to Canberra and Newcastle, for instance.  Whereas Brisbane and Perth are over 2 million and Adelaide is 1.4 million.  Only Darwin and Hobart could be classed as "small" capital cities and they're still a lot bigger than York.

York is only about 150,000, as are many other cities in the UK.  Plenty of non-capital cities in Australia of around that size.

You've only named one city that is a non capital city - Newcastle (population 390,500 in 2021). Smaller than Bristol, Edinburgh and Glasgow but admittedly not York (population 156,100 in 2021). That's because people naturally think of York when they think of a city in Yorkshire whereas the real cities are Leeds (population 812,000 in 2021) and Sheffield (population 556,500 in 2021).

[Marisawright]

28 minutes ago, Ken said:

You've only named one city that is a non capital city - Newcastle (population 390,500 in 2021). Smaller than Bristol, Edinburgh and Glasgow but admittedly not York (population 156,100 in 2021). That's because people naturally think of York when they think of a city in Yorkshire whereas the real cities are Leeds (population 812,000 in 2021) and Sheffield (population 556,500 in 2021).

The source I looked at said 497,000 last year, but I know it varies depending what's included.

Anyway, the population figures aren't that relevant. My point was that Ausvisitor said "anywhere outside Sydney or Melbourne"  is "nowheresville". and "why would you move around the world to live in nowheresville?"

I couldn't let that pass.  There are many very liveable cities in Australia, and many would argue those other places are more liveable than Sydney or Melbourne, since they are so much more affordable. To dismiss practically the whole country as just "nowheresville" is just plain rude.

Besides, just because the OP lives in a densely populated part of England doesn't mean they like it there.  Perhaps they would prefer something different.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Marisawright

[Blue Flu]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Well, naturally they would.  I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.   That's not what we're talking about.

Well not that natural if given a little thought. There a  host of cities and regions in UK that grant easy access to a London fix, if and when required. Not so in Australia, hence location is very important if not wanting to live a parochial life with little options for respite.

[Blue Flu]

53 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

The source I looked at said 497,000 last year, but I know it varies depending what's included.

Anyway, the population figures aren't that relevant. My point was that Ausvisitor said "anywhere outside Sydney or Melbourne"  is "nowheresville". and "why would you move around the world to live in nowheresville?"

I couldn't let that pass.  There are many very liveable cities in Australia, and many would argue those other places are more liveable than Sydney or Melbourne, since they are so much more affordable. To dismiss practically the whole country as just "nowheresville" is just plain rude.

Besides, just because the OP lives in a densely populated part of England doesn't mean they like it there.  Perhaps they would prefer something different.

To some it may well be nowheresville. It is a matter of taste into just how many desirable cities there are in Australia. Don't be offended when others think otherwise. Just as nothing wrong with those that prefer more parochial places. No doubt they have terms for those that prefer the major centres. Be that Melbourne, Sydney or London. 

[Marisawright]

24 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

To some it may well be nowheresville. It is a matter of taste into just how many desirable cities there are in Australia. Don't be offended when others think otherwise. Just as nothing wrong with those that prefer more parochial places. No doubt they have terms for those that prefer the major centres. Be that Melbourne, Sydney or London. 

I wouldn't be offended if someone said (as I often do), "I'm a big-city person, so smaller cities/towns would not suit me."    However, to dismiss them as nothing, nowhere, not deserving of any attention, is insulting to those who prefer the more relaxed lifestyle of a smaller city/town.    

And of course, referring to all their residents as "parochial" is equally dismissive.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Marisawright

[Toots]

58 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I wouldn't be offended if someone said (as I often do), "I'm a big-city person, so smaller cities/towns would not suit me."    However, to dismiss them as nothing, nowhere, not deserving of any attention, is insulting to those who prefer the more relaxed lifestyle of a smaller city/town.    

And of course, referring to all their residents as "parochial" is equally dismissive.

I find people in the countryside here also the towns are friendly and communicative.  That's me though.  I take people as I find them and don't look down on people.  I'm not insulted by Mr Flu's comments.  That's his opinion.  He desires a sort of "London fix" whereas it would mean nothing to me.  Thing is I'm happy.  That's all that matters in the end.

[Blue Flu]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I wouldn't be offended if someone said (as I often do), "I'm a big-city person, so smaller cities/towns would not suit me."    However, to dismiss them as nothing, nowhere, not deserving of any attention, is insulting to those who prefer the more relaxed lifestyle of a smaller city/town.    

And of course, referring to all their residents as "parochial" is equally dismissive.

Not me. But depends whom talking with. As from one of those towns feel fully able to find an accord with that poster, without feeling remotely upset. Some I know would say much the same. I refer to the locals as parochial , simply because most are. If not would be hard to maintain an interest to remain. That's not saying there is something necessarily wrong with parochialism, one just needs to know where one fits though in the greater scheme of things. 

Wrong to think smaller places are necessarily friendly. Lots of back stabbing , you need a hard shell, a lot of cliques that can be hard for incomers to find a place. Rather small minded when I lived there, but this has changed to a degree.  Limited hospital services, poor mental health outcomes for a considerable number of people , especially youth that don't feel belonging. If in WA  or Country Vic loads of drugs as well. 

Certainly suit some people but caution using cliches like 'more relaxed' probably should be exercised. It may be for some , with something quite the opposite for others. 

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Toots said:

I find people in the countryside here also the towns are friendly and communicative.  That's me though.  I take people as I find them and don't look down on people.  I'm not insulted by Mr Flu's comments.  That's his opinion.  He desires a sort of "London fix" whereas it would mean nothing to me.  Thing is I'm happy.  That's all that matters in the end.

No reason why you should feel 'insulted' by My Flu's  comments made. After all only reflecting an agreement with another poster who seemed to censored by some for calling outside the major centres , nowhere land. Some may well consider quite apt under the circumstances. I fully agree though many prefer not to be in 'a somewhere' land. The isolation and escape from metro living suits some just fine.  

[ramot]

What a nonsense this thread has deteriorated into. 

We should all apologise to the OP

[Blue Flu]

18 minutes ago, ramot said:

What a nonsense this thread has deteriorated into. 

We should all apologise to the OP

Thread going great guns. As you may be aware threads do tend to take on a life of their own. But broadly this is remaining on topic. Obviously cannot please all. 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, ramot said:

What a nonsense this thread has deteriorated into. 

We should all apologise to the OP

Indeed.  I wouldn't have prolonged it by arguing, except that I'd hate the OP to be put off considering cities outside Sydney and Melbourne because two members are SO convinced the whole of Australia (except Sydney and Melbourne) is a wasteland!

That would be sad, because teachers' salaries don't go far in the two most expensive cities in the country.  So if they are open-minded about living in another city or even the country, they'll be miles better off financially.   Maybe they are big-city folk who'd be bored in a smaller place, but we don't know that.

[calNgary]

Considering the OP has stated they are not fussed about living in a city, you are both arguing over nothing and somewhat off track (especially as this ISNT ctf). So no more please although feel free to start a thread discussing cities in CTF should you wish. 

 

   Cal x

[Marisawright]

14 minutes ago, calNgary said:

Considering the OP has stated they are not fussed about living in a city, you are both arguing over nothing....

Yes, that's precisely why I felt I had to speak up.  The OP did say they weren't fussed about living in a city:  but if they listen to Ausvisitor and BlueFlu, they'll be convinced they're wrong because outside the cities, Australia is "nowheresville".  Don't you think that's a perception that needs to be challenged, for the sake of the OP?

[Marisawright]

calNgary's comment has made me look back at what the OP said.  @JJTeacher, you've said you're not looking for a major city, just a "nice suburb".   

It's worth pointing out that the suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne are nothing like the suburbs of large English cities.  Around London, a lot of the commuter belt is actually villages and towns that have been swallowed up by London, or suburbs that were created over a century ago.  They've developed their own personality and sense of community, separate from London.   The commuter belt of Sydney and Melbourne is more like the joke version of Milton Keynes:  faceless dormitory suburbs, designed as a place for workers to sleep between long commutes to and from the city centre.   There are some lovely exceptions, but most are pretty soulless places. Also, both Sydney and Melbourne are sprawling cities, as big as London in area though with far less people. Don't think you can live in a village or town outside the city limits and commute in, unless you're happy with commuting over an hour each way.

Apart from a year in country Victoria, I've lived in Sydney and Melbourne all the time I've been in Australia, and I love both cities.  However, I have always lived in the lively and cosmopolitan inner suburbs.   I wouldn't contemplate living in the outer ring.  If finances meant I had to, I'd choose to move to a smaller city instead. 

In summary, my own view is that if you want a family-friendly community as opposed to big-city living, then you'll get more of that in other cities.  If your dream is primarily a beachside, sporty lifestyle, then I'd consider the smaller cities along the NSW/Queensland coast, like Lake Macquarie or Coffs Harbour.  Beachside living in all the capital cities is very expensive and is becoming the preserve of millionaires.  

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Marisawright

[rammygirl]

Ok for contrast. I live in the Adelaide Hills. I can walk to cafes, shops and restaurants, wineries etc.  Walk and cycle in the beautiful countryside. City is 30 mins away with theatre, music, galleries (which we love). Lovely beaches 40 mins away. Looking forward to the Fringe and WOMAD soon.  
Good community, growing large town nearby (Mount Barker) with growing infrastructure (new schools,hospital,shopping 

centres….)

I love what the city offers but prefer to live in a more rural setting. Best of both worlds for us!  
 

We wouldn’t want to be somewhere without easy access to theatres and events, but dislike many commuter suburbs where people don’t know each other. Even in Adelaide the sprawl can be soulless in parts and although cheaper than Melbourne or Sydney still well over a million in the nicer areas. 

[benj1980]

I'm with Rammygirl. I wouldn't dream of living in the middle of a major city. Everything you need can also be found in the smaller cities that surround the bigger populated areas. I can be in Perth within an hour if need be and that's close enough for me. I'm a keen sports fan and you'll see me regularly at Dockers, Western Force games which takes just over an hour but with free transport to the game. I live on the coast and have bush and countryside to the south of me including wineries. Schools, sport clubs, theatre, restaurants, cafes are all readily available, hospitals could always offer more I guess. Much like what Rammygirl is suggesting you can build a great life without being in the middle of a big city, cheaper to live but in my view without missing out.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, benj1980 said:

Everything you need can also be found in the smaller cities that surround the bigger populated areas.

That may be true for Perth but I doubt it's true for the other capital cities.  Certainly, for Sydney and Melbourne, if you want to be within an hour's drive of the city centre, you're still well and truly in the suburbs.  

[calNgary]

5 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That may be true for Perth but I doubt it's true for the other capital cities.  Certainly, for Sydney and Melbourne, if you want to be within an hour's drive of the city centre, you're still well and truly in the suburbs.  

Not just Perth as its the same for Brisbane too, we are under an hour from Brisbane CBD or Gold coast with its beaches  etc , yet are in a Regional area and not classed as Brisbane at all and certainly not a suburb of either city. Its green with many acreage properties, miles apart from any built up city suburb or outer suburb .

    Cal x

[rammygirl]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

That may be true for Perth but I doubt it's true for the other capital cities.  Certainly, for Sydney and Melbourne, if you want to be within an hour's drive of the city centre, you're still well and truly in the suburbs.  

Did the op actually say they had to be in Melbourne or Sydney though?  Geelong is also a good option but a tad chilly for me. 

[Marisawright]

20 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

Did the op actually say they had to be in Melbourne or Sydney though?  Geelong is also a good option but a tad chilly for me. 

No they didn't, but a couple of posters have been assuring the OP that every other city in Australia, apart from Sydney or Melbourne, is "nowheresville" and "parochial".  

It's good to see a few people joining in to reassure them that's utter nonsense.

However, I also wouldn't like the OP to think all the capital cities have satellite cities around them, like the UK.  As you know, most Australian capital cities are surrounded by suburbs and countryside, and the next nearest city is often some distance away (unless you count suburbs that call themselves 'cities', which I always find confusing!).

Edited February 4, 2023 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

For a couple of teachers who want to remain in the profession I think the deciding factor is going to be more a case of "go where you can get a job". It may be that they can get jobs in somewhere like Wagga or Dubbo, Echuca or Orbost but struggle to get something in places where people actually want to live.  Flexibility and compromising a few desirable features is probably going to be key.   I had a chuckle at the joke version of Milton Keynes! Give me a smaller town any day of the week 

[Ausvisitor]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

 Beachside living in all the capital cities is very expensive and is becoming the preserve of millionaires.  

 

 

For two middle aged professionals living in South East England, if they have owned there own home for a decade or so they probably aren't far away from being a millionaire in Australia

I've got a lot of time for Port Macquarie too, won't work for me, the only places I can really work are Syd, Mel and at a push Perth - but I probably won't retire in any of them - but I didn't move half way round the world to spend 45 minutes each way commuting 

Rather chuck cash at living right in the inner sanctum of the city

I know people often call the non city areas good (and some people are just not city dwellers), where as many outer suburb dwellers aren't there for any esoteric reason, it's purely they can't afford the inner regions, that doesn't mean they wouldn't move in a heartbeat if they could though