Choosing Arrival Location with Family

[DIG85]

11 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

But... I'm paying you to do a job and that value is based on how well you do the job, not how much it costs you to live in the location you have chosen to live.

Now if you can do the job better because you are in town then that's a different story, but if the outcome is the same whether done in office or outback then I don't see why pay should differ

But eventually everyone working in the city is going to realise they can move out to cheaper regional areas whilst retaining a city salary. 
 

This will lead to two things: lack of team-building opportunities as most people WFH; and a huge surplus of office space and employers tied into expensive rental leases on commercial city properties. Employers want neither of those.

That is why, eventually, employers WILL lower salaries for those who work away from the city, except perhaps for the very top talent. How long it will take, is another matter.

 

 

[Ausvisitor]

2 hours ago, DIG85 said:

But eventually everyone working in the city is going to realise they can move out to cheaper regional areas whilst retaining a city salary. 
 

This will lead to two things: lack of team-building opportunities as most people WFH; and a huge surplus of office space and employers tied into expensive rental leases on commercial city properties. Employers want neither of those.

That is why, eventually, employers WILL lower salaries for those who work away from the city, except perhaps for the very top talent. How long it will take, is another matter.

 

 

I agree with you on the office space comment.

However having just arrived from the UK a month ago and done 7 years of WFH (including 2 where it wasn't a choice) I can guarantee you that WFH does not inhibit team building, it just changes it - but it is still a thing

[DIG85]

7 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

I agree with you on the office space comment.

However having just arrived from the UK a month ago and done 7 years of WFH (including 2 where it wasn't a choice) I can guarantee you that WFH does not inhibit team building, it just changes it - but it is still a thing

Our mileages obviously vary re. team building. It is a disaster in particular for young graduates, who need the help and experience that only face to face contact allows.

Many CEOs have expressed concern about both productivity falls and team building possibilities in recent interviews.

Edited March 5, 2022 by DIG85

[BeachBabe2022]

19 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That is a matter of personal opinion. It will vary from person to person. 

 

Of course!

And I personally think it is completely reasonable, as do the thousands of people who do the commute daily.

However, just realized that most people here misunderstood my comment. I am not suggesting specifically moving to Woolongong  or Terrigal. I gave them as the furthest points to consider for cheaper beach living - they are both a doable commute, but I would not want to go any further out

The OP said they wanted to be near the coast. If you want to live near the coast in Sydney, then expect to pay more, than being near the coast further out (i.e.) A house in Bronte would be maybe a million dollars more, than a house further down the coast in Stanwell Tops.

That was my point.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by BeachBabe2022

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BeachBabe2022 said:

Of course!

And I personally think it is completely reasonable, as do the thousands of people who do the commute daily.

However, just realized that most people here misunderstood my comment. I am not suggesting specifically moving to Woolongong  or Terrigal. I gave them as the furthest points to consider for cheaper beach living - they are both a doable commute, but I would not want to go any further out

The OP said they wanted to be near the coast. If you want to live near the coast in Sydney, then expect to pay more, than being near the coast further out (i.e.) A house in Bronte would be maybe a million dollars more, than a house further down the coast in Stanwell Tops.

That was my point.

 

I completely got your point, and appreciated your opinion. 

Wollongong is somewhere i have looked at, as we're not city people and i had been weighing up the commute. 

Many Construction companies in the UK do have their offices on the edge of main cities, as we do have to drive from site to site, therefore CBD isnt usually a place, but the city is. 

I'd look at Wollongong if there was a regional office on the edge of South Sydney.

I appreciate your input thank you. 

[Guest]

Just now, Constance said:

I completely got your point, and appreciated your opinion. 

Wollongong is somewhere i have looked at, as we're not city people and i had been weighing up the commute. 

Many Construction companies in the UK do have their offices on the edge of main cities, as we do have to drive from site to site, therefore CBD isnt usually a place, but the city is. 

I'd look at Wollongong if there was a regional office on the edge of South Sydney.

I appreciate your input thank you. 

Though it is long! There is varying factors x

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Constance said:

I completely got your point, and appreciated your opinion. 

Wollongong is somewhere i have looked at, as we're not city people and i had been weighing up the commute. 

Many Construction companies in the UK do have their offices on the edge of main cities, as we do have to drive from site to site, therefore CBD isnt usually a place, but the city is. 

I'd look at Wollongong if there was a regional office on the edge of South Sydney.

I'm not sure if there's anyone here with experience of Wollongong.     It would be worth investigating carefully.  

Both Newcastle and Wollongong used to be rough, working-class towns and most Sydneysiders wouldn't have dreamt of living there.  Newcastle has transformed in recent years and become a vibrant city in its own right.   Wollongong, not so much - perhaps because it's that bit closer to Sydney - but I haven't been there in the last six years so it may have changed.    There are several gorgeous coastal villages along the coast between Wollongong and Sydney which you could consider, though.  However because they are so popular, they are more expensive than some Sydney suburbs. 

Have you seen this section of the realestate.com.au website?   You type in the suburb or town and it tells you the median house and unit prices

https://www.realestate.com.au/neighbourhoods/thirroul-2515-nsw

Obviously "median" may not be what you're looking for, BUT it gives you a way of comparing the relative cost of one suburb/town vs another.   

Edited March 5, 2022 by Marisawright

[Bulya]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I'm not sure if there's anyone here with experience of Wollongong.     It would be worth investigating carefully.  

Both Newcastle and Wollongong used to be rough, working-class towns and most Sydneysiders wouldn't have dreamt of living there.  Newcastle has transformed in recent years and become a vibrant city in its own right.   Wollongong, not so much - perhaps because it's that bit closer to Sydney - but I haven't been there in the last six years so it may have changed.    There are several gorgeous coastal villages along the coast between Wollongong and Sydney which you could consider, though.  However because they are so popular, they are more expensive than some Sydney suburbs. 

Have you seen this section of the realestate.com.au website?   You type in the suburb or town and it tells you the median house and unit prices

https://www.realestate.com.au/neighbourhoods/thirroul-2515-nsw

Obviously "median" may not be what you're looking for, BUT it gives you a way of comparing the relative cost of one suburb/town vs another.   

I’d live in Newcastle again but I avoid Wollongong like the plague..

[Ausvisitor]

I too would love in Newcastle, but as Marisa has pointed out sometimes (and it's the case with me) the job only exists in the capital's and so I have to live in a shoebox

[can1983]

On 05/03/2022 at 11:46, Marisawright said:

That is a matter of personal opinion. It will vary from person to person.  You've seen that on this very forum.  You think it's reasonable, your friend thinks it's reasonable, but I would find the very idea horrific and so would Can1983.  So it's not reasonable to say "it's reasonable".  Instead, be specific and say, "the commute from these places is 1.5 to 2 hours on the train, plus the time it takes you to get to and from the stations".  Then people can decide for themselves whether they'd think that reasonable.

(and by the way, I did check the train timetables before making that statement and yes, they are as far as was stated).

Like I said, I know someone who commuted from Birmingham to London for a year.  I know two guys who commuted from Newcastle to Sydney for over a year. I knew a couple of people who commuted from Bournemouth.   I'd have to say that although they all did it, not one of them thought it was "reasonable".   They did it because in their circumstances, it was the most sensible thing to do, but they would all rather not have had to do it. 

 

Yes i checked the timetable too! 3-4 hours a day.

My experience of long commutes is Reading to London "20 minutes by train" says the timetable. Reality was 15 mins to the train station and park, 5 minutes to walk around to my platform, 20 minutes train, 30 minutes transfer and tube at the other end, 5 minutes to get into the building and up to the 15th floor, hey presto 20 minute commute is actually 1h15. If anything went wrong could be 2-3 hours...

Also Bondi to Scotland Island. They are both "Sydney" but that one took me 2hr each way! by car and ferry, did that for about 2 months before realising how dumb it was.

Now my commute is 5 minutes and quite honestly that's still 4 minutes too long

I'd be wary of relying on WFH. During the height of the pandemic people I know here in Hobart sold up and moved an hour out to some beautiful locations thinking that was it the world has changed. Now we are mostly being told its back to the office and a couple of those are now stuck with massive commutes that they cant really afford to do with young children to care for.

To the OP id say live close to work or the lifestyle you want wont happen.

[beketamun]

15 hours ago, Bulya said:

I’d live in Newcastle again but I avoid Wollongong like the plague..

what is wrong with Wollongong?  Never been there, but met somebody recently who was saying it's not bad to live in.  

[Marisawright]

32 minutes ago, can1983 said:

Yes i checked the timetable too! 3-4 hours a day.

....To the OP id say live close to work or the lifestyle you want wont happen.

I have to apologise because I misread your original post and thought you meant 3-4 hours each way.  

I know some people do very long commutes and say being by the beach/in the mountains on the weekend is worth suffering 12-hour days Monday to Friday.  It's a personal choice. 

But you make a good point.  When Brits thought of migrating to Australia years ago, it was seen as a place where you could work hard, make your fortune and eventually enjoy life by the beach.  I think these days, most Brits are looking for a better quality of life from day 1 - they already have a nice home in the UK and they expect to have a similar one in Australia, but close to the beach.  They're not expecting to have to start all over again, either living in a cramped maisonette and struggling to pay the mortgage, or having the house but commuting 2 hours each way every day on crowded trains - which is the reality facing most who move to Sydney.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

7 minutes ago, beketamun said:

what is wrong with Wollongong?  Never been there, but met somebody recently who was saying it's not bad to live in.  

It used to have a terrible reputation, rough as guts. Large swathes of boganland and a big drug problem.  

It may have changed recently but I wouldn't bank on it.  Unfortunately there are very limited job opportunities but Sydney is too far to be an acceptable commute for most, so there's a large population of unemployed and under-employed youth.   Also it attracts the long-term unemployed who can't afford to live in Sydney any more.  

There's been a huge surge in apartment building and they have some nice pubs and restaurants in the centre but I'm not sure it's enough to counteract al of the above.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Marisawright

[Toots]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It used to have a terrible reputation, rough as guts. Large swathes of boganland and a big drug problem.  

It may have changed recently but I wouldn't bank on it.  Unfortunately there are very limited job opportunities but Sydney is too far to be an acceptable commute for most, so there's a large population of unemployed and under-employed youth.   Also it attracts the long-term unemployed who can't afford to live in Sydney any more.  

There's been a huge surge in apartment building and they have some nice pubs and restaurants in the centre but I'm not sure it's enough to counteract al of the above.

You're right Wollongong used to have a terrible reputation and parts of it haven't improved much.  Last time we were in Sydney we drove down to see friends in Kiama (nice place) and stopped to have a look around Wollongong.  Lots of apartments have gone up since we were last there and of course there are nice beaches but the middle of the town is rundown with some really rough, seedy characters roaming around.  Such a shame as it is a university town with some nice parks etc but still very rough around the edges.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for your input. 

We were thinking at first that we should be 'job led' on the move and the input here has confirmed that for us. 

We will remain open to opportunities in Sydney and probably Brisbane and look at what a salary offer could do for us in terms of work v life balance.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply. 

[Bulya]

On 07/03/2022 at 09:25, beketamun said:

what is wrong with Wollongong?  Never been there, but met somebody recently who was saying it's not bad to live in.  

Go for a day trip.  It’s not far 

[WayneM]

On 07/03/2022 at 19:02, Constance said:

Thanks everyone for your input. 

We were thinking at first that we should be 'job led' on the move and the input here has confirmed that for us. 

We will remain open to opportunities in Sydney and probably Brisbane and look at what a salary offer could do for us in terms of work v life balance.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply. 

Best of luck!

[Rallyman]

On 01/03/2022 at 10:22, Ausvisitor said:

I am in a short term up in North Sydney, not well know as a beach location but can be at Manly/Bondi/Coogee in under an hour on public transport and under 25 minutes in a car.

Nowhere (except the seaside towns themselves) offers that in the UK.

Just have to take a mortgage out to pay the parking fees 

[beketamun]

On 06/03/2022 at 10:15, Marisawright said:

I'm not sure if there's anyone here with experience of Wollongong.     It would be worth investigating carefully.  

Both Newcastle and Wollongong used to be rough, working-class towns and most Sydneysiders wouldn't have dreamt of living there.  Newcastle has transformed in recent years and become a vibrant city in its own right.   Wollongong, not so much - perhaps because it's that bit closer to Sydney - but I haven't been there in the last six years so it may have changed.    There are several gorgeous coastal villages along the coast between Wollongong and Sydney which you could consider, though.  However because they are so popular, they are more expensive than some Sydney suburbs. 

Have you seen this section of the realestate.com.au website?   You type in the suburb or town and it tells you the median house and unit prices

https://www.realestate.com.au/neighbourhoods/thirroul-2515-nsw

Obviously "median" may not be what you're looking for, BUT it gives you a way of comparing the relative cost of one suburb/town vs another.   

Went to Berry this weekend.......talking about money !  Not been since the bypass was built, but it seems to have improved the village and the prices are eyewateriing.

[Ausvisitor]

On 11/03/2022 at 23:47, Rallyman said:

Just have to take a mortgage out to pay the parking fees 

North Sydney seems to be $30 a day for parking which is half what you pay for a car park in the equivalent London suburb so far Sydney seems ok in terms of costs, certainly cheaper than the UK I'm used to.

[Bulya]

11 hours ago, beketamun said:

Went to Berry this weekend.......talking about money !  Not been since the bypass was built, but it seems to have improved the village and the prices are eyewateriing.

Should have gone to Bowral.  Dirty Janes alone is worth the trip.  And don’t forget Jugiong.  I went for breakfast last year,. It’s worth a look imho.

[Guest AltyMatt]

46 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

North Sydney seems to be $30 a day for parking which is half what you pay for a car park in the equivalent London suburb so far Sydney seems ok in terms of costs, certainly cheaper than the UK I'm used to.

Many councils offer beach parking permits. Residents usually receive a couple of free permits a year, but quite a few councils sell permits to non-residents.

Edited March 14, 2022 by AltyMatt

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Ausvisitor said:

North Sydney seems to be $30 a day for parking which is half what you pay for a car park in the equivalent London suburb so far Sydney seems ok in terms of costs, certainly cheaper than the UK I'm used to.

My impression is that, if you're coming from London, then Sydney prices seem reasonable.  If you're coming from anywhere else in the UK, they can be a shock.  Just like prices in London can be a shock for someone coming from other parts of the UK.  

Rallyman was referring to the cost of parking at Manly, Balmoral Beach etc if you're going to the beach from North Sydney.   For me it wouldn't be the cost of parking but the difficulty of finding a space.  I have memories of driving round and round fruitlessly!   However, I left Sydney 8 years ago and then, beachside parking wasn't expensive. If they've put the prices up, perhaps the parking isn't so overwhelmed and it's not quite so much of an ordeal.   

Edited March 14, 2022 by Marisawright

[Blue Flu]

On 07/03/2022 at 06:30, Marisawright said:

It used to have a terrible reputation, rough as guts. Large swathes of boganland and a big drug problem.  

It may have changed recently but I wouldn't bank on it.  Unfortunately there are very limited job opportunities but Sydney is too far to be an acceptable commute for most, so there's a large population of unemployed and under-employed youth.   Also it attracts the long-term unemployed who can't afford to live in Sydney any more.  

There's been a huge surge in apartment building and they have some nice pubs and restaurants in the centre but I'm not sure it's enough to counteract al of the above.

Where doesn't have a drug problem in Australia? It just flies under the radar for many but up there among our largest 'problems' at the moment with little means of abating. I'm not sure if job opportunities are necessarily of the same relevance they once were, when other measures to make money avail themselves and taken up by those of professional standing (as around me) hence I don't see why it wouldn't cross status settings in participation.

I have never been to the Gong, but a simple search showed as expected not different from elsewhere. I expect pricing as forced out of more desirable localities , the 'rough as guts' demographic, once prominent in much of Australia , still visible though without too much searching in certain situations and locations. 

The huge apartment surge across our cities, is but an indicator, if further was needed,   of falling living standards over the past two decades . Apartments can be an alternative for those that prefer inner city living, but only if built to an acceptable standard and not purely for a fast buck for developers. Often as in my area the aesthetics are awful with the poor standards in control by council. I wonder if The Gong can be any different. 

 

 

 

[beketamun]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

My impression is that, if you're coming from London, then Sydney prices seem reasonable.  If you're coming from anywhere else in the UK, they can be a shock.  Just like prices in London can be a shock for someone coming from other parts of the UK.  

Rallyman was referring to the cost of parking at Manly, Balmoral Beach etc if you're going to the beach from North Sydney.   For me it wouldn't be the cost of parking but the difficulty of finding a space.  I have memories of driving round and round fruitlessly!   However, I left Sydney 8 years ago and then, beachside parking wasn't expensive. If they've put the prices up, perhaps the parking isn't so overwhelmed and it's not quite so much of an ordeal.   

I think it's more that Australia had free parking, and now local councils have jumped on the revenue raising aspect of it.   UK went down that route years ago.   I remember Birmingham charging 25 UKP per day to park on a derelict city centre dirt car park 15 years ago.  The tradies were all working on an adjacent local city project and charged it straight back to them.