Can my son transfer in year 12?

[Sarah Raftery]

We are at the start of our move to Oz so will be waiting 18 months minimum for my partner visa by which time my eldest will have started year 12 in the UK. Can he start in year 12 & still pass their exams to get into uni? Or would he need to be put back to year 11 & is this an option?

[Quoll]

3 hours ago, Sarah Raftery said:

We are at the start of our move to Oz so will be waiting 18 months minimum for my partner visa by which time my eldest will have started year 12 in the UK. Can he start in year 12 & still pass their exams to get into uni? Or would he need to be put back to year 11 & is this an option?

Theoretically you can if he meets the cut off date but pragmatically you would really disadvantage him by doing that. He would actually be better to wait and finish A levels because they convert really well to Uni entry requirements - much better than going in the reverse direction!  If he were to start half way through the 11/12 course he would rely on someone calculating his ATAR score and that would probably be well lower than he might have if he had done the whole course.  All depending on which state you go to, the yr 12 score is a mixture of continuous assessments and exams in varying degrees, it’s not like A levels where it’s all on final exams. 

He wouldn’t be being “put back” a year (he might even be chronologically right for year 11 - the U.K./Aus year levels don’t match up exactly) - he will never have done year 11 in Australia before even if he is slightly older than his grade cohorts.  It very much depends on his birthday and which state you will be going to as to which Aus year he will be going into. 

Best scenario though, let him finish A levels - board with someone if need be - then he keeps all options open for whether he wants Uni in U.K. or Australia.

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, Sarah Raftery said:

We are at the start of our move to Oz so will be waiting 18 months minimum for my partner visa by which time my eldest will have started year 12 in the UK. Can he start in year 12 & still pass their exams to get into uni? Or would he need to be put back to year 11 & is this an option?

Partner visas are being processed much faster now if you've applied from the UK, so you may be surprised. 

If you're unlucky and it is 18 months, then I second Quoll:  make your activation trip, then stay another year to let him finish A levels.  They are more "valuable" and widely recognised.  I'm not an expert but it seems to me that Australian HSC is more like the Scottish Highers, not quite as demanding as A levels and therefore not quite as well regarded.  

[ali]

Just something with regard to Uni (unsure if your son has Citizenship?), but there are no student loans unless you're a citizen.-

[Loopylu]

16 hours ago, ali said:

Just something with regard to Uni (unsure if your son has Citizenship?), but there are no student loans unless you're a citizen.-

If the poster's partner is the father of her child then it makes sense to get dual citizenship sorted before leaving the UK to address this issue.

[Wanderer Returns]

On 26/03/2021 at 02:54, Sarah Raftery said:

We are at the start of our move to Oz so will be waiting 18 months minimum for my partner visa by which time my eldest will have started year 12 in the UK. Can he start in year 12 & still pass their exams to get into uni? Or would he need to be put back to year 11 & is this an option?

I'd agree with what others have said, and being a teacher in the state school system here in Queensland, I will stick my neck and say (comparing like for like) he will probably get a better education in the UK state system than here.

[ali]

9 hours ago, Loopylu said:

If the poster's partner is the father of her child then it makes sense to get dual citizenship sorted before leaving the UK to address this issue.

Yes it does, but I didn't want to assume

[Loopylu]

8 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I'd agree with what others have said, and being a teacher in the state school system here in Queensland, I will stick my neck and say (comparing like for like) he will probably get a better education in the UK state system than here.

Wow - you are living dangerously on this forum, dissing anything Australian and saying it’s better in the UK. However, you are a professional who has worked in both systems and so are probably best placed to draw a comparison. Unfortunately, as everyone has been to school, they often think they know more than the teachers about education! 

it amazes me what the kids learn these days at school and I suppose technology means they have greater access to reference materials and ways of presenting their work. I remember having to traipse to the local library and feeding in 2p pieces to photocopy materials from books that were not available for loan to help me do my schoolwork.

I think the quality of State School education in Qld varies greatly from school to school. At one extreme you have Brisbane State High and the science based academies and at the other, the lower demographic schools in places like Logan and Inala and in remote areas. 
 

We chose Wavell State High for our kids based on the variety of subjects on offer and it’s a great school compared to the school I attended. Fantastic, caring teachers who cater to a very diverse cohort of students. By comparison, my market town high school in the UK was rough and it ended up in special measures and renamed because it was so dodgy.

[Sarah Raftery]

Thank you for your responses all helpful. We have applied for our boys citizenship so hoping uni fees won't be an issue. I had also heard about the differences between education systems and I think ideally my son would complete his A levels first. However having completed all my education including graduate here & my husband in Aus looking at where we are now I'm not sure it really matters in the long term? We're moving for quality of life opportunity and family reasons. Living with COVID restrictions for over a year now has made us really evaluate life. My son wants to be a pilot so I'm thinking there may be more opportunities in Australia for that. we can get my visa sorted ASAP and get moving!

[Loopylu]

4 minutes ago, Sarah Raftery said:

. My son wants to be a pilot so I'm thinking there may be more opportunities in Australia for that. we can get my visa sorted ASAP and get moving!

I know one of the universities in Brisbane (Griffith?) runs a degree for aspiring pilots as one of my boys’ friends is doing this. It is a very expensive course ($120,000+) and I recently met one graduate on the till in Woolies who had gained a position with Virgin but then Covid hit. Hopefully air travel will return to some semblance of normality soon....

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, Sarah Raftery said:

 I had also heard about the differences between education systems and I think ideally my son would complete his A levels first. However having completed all my education including graduate here & my husband in Aus looking at where we are now I'm not sure it really matters in the long term?..... My son wants to be a pilot so I'm thinking there may be more opportunities in Australia for that.

I think you're right.  As Loopylou says, there are good and bad schools in any country, a lot depends on where you end up.  And in the long term, it won't matter, especially if you see your family's future in Australia.   As for more opportunities for pilots in Australia - not sure how you'd work that out?  With Australia's tiny population and most international flights run by foreign airlines, I don't think there are  a lot of jobs for pilots here compared to Europe.

[NicF]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I think you're right.  As Loopylou says, there are good and bad schools in any country, a lot depends on where you end up.  And in the long term, it won't matter, especially if you see your family's future in Australia.   As for more opportunities for pilots in Australia - not sure how you'd work that out?  With Australia's tiny population and most international flights run by foreign airlines, I don't think there are  a lot of jobs for pilots here compared to Europe.

There might not be as many jobs for international flight pilots but there would probably be more for small plane pilots.  Given the distances in Australia there are a lot of planes flying between cities and smaller regional airports and requirements for pilots to fly things like flying doctors services and the like.  

[Wanderer Returns]

15 hours ago, Loopylu said:

We chose Wavell State High for our kids based on the variety of subjects on offer and it’s a great school compared to the school I attended. Fantastic, caring teachers who cater to a very diverse cohort of students. By comparison, my market town high school in the UK was rough and it ended up in special measures and renamed because it was so dodgy.

You're absolutely right, and that's why I said comparing like for like. Wavell SHS is not a million miles away from where I work, and a 'leafy green' as they are referred to over here. Parents move to these areas especially to get their kids into these schools because there's such a huge difference in the quality of state schools. I've also worked in a school on the south side of the Brisbane, not far from the city, where virtually zero learning was happening because of the disruption. You may not pay to send your children to state schools, but when houses in those areas regularly top the million dollar mark, you are still paying for their education.

[newjez]

18 hours ago, Loopylu said:

think the quality of State School education in Qld varies greatly from school to school. At one extreme you have Brisbane State High and the science based academies and at the other, the lower demographic schools in places like Logan and Inala and in remote areas. 

Nail on the head.

The variation between UK schools is also massive, so to say one countries' schools are better than the other verges on the ridiculous.

[Loopylu]

6 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

You're absolutely right, and that's why I said comparing like for like. Wavell SHS is not a million miles away from where I work, and a 'leafy green' as they are referred to over here. Parents move to these areas especially to get their kids into these schools because there's such a huge difference in the quality of state schools. I've also worked in a school on the south side of the Brisbane, not far from the city, where virtually zero learning was happening because of the disruption. You may not pay to send your children to state schools, but when houses in those areas regularly top the million dollar mark, you are still paying for their education.

I would say that 80% of students at Wavell are out of catchment as the catchment is geographically very small and most children living in catchment go to private schools as it is a higher socio-economic area. We are definitely not in catchment and made a conscious decision not to use our catchment high school (Albany Creek) because it had less to offer and was too “white” and middle-class but with no better academic results than Wavell which has kids from quite challenging backgrounds. I didn’t want my kids growing up in a bubble of white privilege and potentially picking up racist attitudes along the way. 

[Loopylu]

I forgot to mention that, if the OP ends up in Brisbane, there is an inner-north high school - Aviation State High - that specialises in offering aerospace and space travel related subjects. A couple of my boys’ primary school friends ended up going  there and seemed to do OK academically.

[Wanderer Returns]

On 28/03/2021 at 16:32, Loopylu said:

I would say that 80% of students at Wavell are out of catchment as the catchment is geographically very small and most children living in catchment go to private schools as it is a higher socio-economic area. We are definitely not in catchment and made a conscious decision not to use our catchment high school (Albany Creek) because it had less to offer and was too “white” and middle-class but with no better academic results than Wavell which has kids from quite challenging backgrounds. I didn’t want my kids growing up in a bubble of white privilege and potentially picking up racist attitudes along the way. 

I’ve worked in four different schools since I moved to Queensland – three in greater Brisbane, and one in Cairns. I’ve found some aspects of school administration to be quite poor over here, but the one area they have all excelled in is promoting diversity and inclusivity, regardless of ethnicity, gender or ability. Kids who develop racist views etc learn that from their family, not in the modern classroom. I feel privileged to work somewhere that provides a safe and positive environment for all learners - and that's not just a 'white privilege' because many of our teachers are also from other races and cultures. Sending your children to a different school for a better choice of subjects makes good sense, but because you think they’d be less racist by being surrounded by people from other cultures is absurd. My wife is Asian and she’s one of the most racist people I know!

Edited March 30, 2021 by Wanderer Returns

[Loopylu]

3 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I’ve worked in four different schools since I moved to Queensland – three in greater Brisbane, and one in Cairns. I’ve found some aspects of school administration to be quite poor over here, but the one area they have all excelled in is promoting diversity and inclusivity, regardless of ethnicity, gender or ability. Kids who develop racist views etc learn that from their family, not in the modern classroom. I feel privileged to work somewhere that provides a safe and positive environment for all learners - and that's not just a 'white privilege' because many of our teachers are also from other races and cultures. Sending your children to a different school for a better choice of subjects makes good sense, but because you think they’d be less racist by being surrounded by people from other cultures is absurd. My wife is Asian and she’s one of the most racist people I know!

I think you have misunderstood what I meant. If you only mix with your own kind/tribe then there is a tendency to fear those who are different or even consider them to be inferior. Of course teachers do not promote racist views but it is possible to learn these from your peers at school.  I believe that a lot of society’s problems are caused by lack of exposure to/not mixing with/understanding others. The misogyny issue that is currently plaguing Australia has been shown to have some of its roots in single sex education (another form of separation, this time from 50% of the population). Again, teachers have not promoted this view but, not being exposed to the other sex in the classroom and building non/sexual friendships with girls, the young men involved have developed a damaging attitude towards women. 

[Toots]

56 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

I think you have misunderstood what I meant. If you only mix with your own kind/tribe then there is a tendency to fear those who are different or even consider them to be inferior. Of course teachers do not promote racist views but it is possible to learn these from your peers at school.  I believe that a lot of society’s problems are caused by lack of exposure to/not mixing with/understanding others. The misogyny issue that is currently plaguing Australia has been shown to have some of its roots in single sex education (another form of separation, this time from 50% of the population). Again, teachers have not promoted this view but, not being exposed to the other sex in the classroom and building non/sexual friendships with girls, the young men involved have developed a damaging attitude towards women. 

I dare say this is so in some cases but isn't there reports currently in the UK about misogyny, harassment, abuse and assault in both single sex and co-ed schools, private and state in the UK.   My two sons went to an all boys state secondary school.  Can't say the misogyny there was much different to the local co-ed school.

[bicek]

21 minutes ago, Toots said:

I dare say this is so in some cases but isn't there reports currently in the UK about misogyny, harassment, abuse and assault in both single sex and co-ed schools, private and state in the UK.   My two sons went to an all boys state secondary school.  Can't say the misogyny there was much different to the local co-ed school.

It's all over the papers here at the moment, yes. This is a societal issue that spans countries. It's not specific to the UK or Australia. And there would be many factors involved. 

 

[Toots]

13 minutes ago, bicek said:

It's all over the papers here at the moment, yes. This is a societal issue that spans countries. It's not specific to the UK or Australia. And there would be many factors involved. 

 

I would say it's also pretty bad in the USA.  Kind of a universal problem and would have been swept under the carpet for years.  

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Toots said:

I dare say this is so in some cases but isn't there reports currently in the UK about misogyny, harassment, abuse and assault in both single sex and co-ed schools, private and state in the UK.   My two sons went to an all boys state secondary school.  Can't say the misogyny there was much different to the local co-ed school.

Out of interest my two sons went to different schools. One was an all boys school, and the other son went to a mixed comprehensive school. There was no difference in their attitude to the opposite sex, I certainly wasn’t aware of any misogyny. Lots of their friends had sisters as did mine, so socialising was in mixed groups, as well as boys only. We certainly socialised as families, with a mix of sons and daughters.

I gather from the UK newspapers that there does sadly seem to be a problem there as well so not just in Australia, and more than likely in lots of other countries.

I find the mention of tribes interesting. In some countries belonging to a tribe is very important with some business is for men only. many tribes dominate as the ruling hierarchy, with little chance of a lesser tribe ever gaining power. 

Having lived in both Africa and Asia I will point out that sadly racism is a two way street, it annoys me that the inference is that it is only a white problem. I have experienced racism, in both those countries, and also in France, sadly it’s everywhere but that doesn’t make it right.

Edited March 30, 2021 by ramot

[Marisawright]

6 minutes ago, ramot said:

Having lived in both Africa and Asia I will point out that sadly racism is a two way street, it annoys me that the inference is that it is only a white problem. I have experienced racism, in both those countries, and also in France, sadly it’s everywhere but that doesn’t make it right.

I wouild say the worst racism I have ever encountered was in Africa, by the Africans against the Indians.  

[Wanderer Returns]

12 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I wouild say the worst racism I have ever encountered was in Africa, by the Africans against the Indians.  

The Middle East is terrible for it; Arabs at the top, Westerners in the middle, and Asians at the bottom. Those poor guys/girls who are flown in from countries like Nepal, Bangladesh and Indonesia and paid $50/month are treated no better than animals in some cases.

[Wanderer Returns]

13 hours ago, Toots said:

I would say it's also pretty bad in the USA.  Kind of a universal problem and would have been swept under the carpet for years.  

let's face it, everything seems bad in the USA. Hardly a week goes by without us hearing of another 'atrocity' that has occurred. The US is an insular society accounting for less than 5% of the world's population, and what happens there isn't necessarily reflected globally. The media has always been 'obsessed with the mess that's America' because the social extremes make great news, but personally I prefer to treat it as the interesting freak show it is - and be thankful there's a large amount of water separating us from them!