Changes to pathway to Citizenship

[ian360]

11 minutes ago, Vic154 said:

I agree that the whole 4 yr PR rule is harsh. I've been here 5 years on a 457, I should have PR by next year which will mean 10yrs before citizenship.

Now someone who arrives today straight on a PR visa will end up getting their citizenship before me! Despite me living and working here for 5 more years!

What is the difference between how I have lived my life during the last 5 yrs vs how I would have lived had I been on a PR visa? None! I would still have done the same job, paid the same taxes, joined the same clubs, lived the same Australian values, etc etc

That is why that rule is unfair in my opinion. I live my life the same way and contribute just as much as someone on PR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it would have been the same, why did you go the 457 route and not just go directly for PR so you could cut your waiting times down?

[Vic154]

If it would have been the same, why did you go the 457 route and not just go directly for PR so you could cut your waiting times down?

Because I guess I was a bit naive to the visa system and didn't realise PR was possible straight away in my occupation. At the time I was just happy to be offered sponsorship on a 457 and two year wait seemed fine. Then I ended up changing jobs...

[ian360]

1 minute ago, Vic154 said:

 

Because I guess I was a bit naive to the visa system and didn't realise PR was possible straight away in my occupation. At the time I was just happy to be offered sponsorship on a 457 and two year wait seemed fine. Then I ended up changing jobs...

 

I understand. In this case, this is not a good situation for you.

[seeker]

36 minutes ago, Vic154 said:

I agree that the whole 4 yr PR rule is harsh. I've been here 5 years on a 457, I should have PR by next year which will mean 10yrs before citizenship.

Now someone who arrives today straight on a PR visa will end up getting their citizenship before me! Despite me living and working here for 5 more years!

What is the difference between how I have lived my life during the last 5 yrs vs how I would have lived had I been on a PR visa? None! I would still have done the same job, paid the same taxes, joined the same clubs, lived the same Australian values, etc etc

That is why that rule is unfair in my opinion. I live my life the same way and contribute just as much as someone on PR.


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Govenment have plans to make the changes to PR process also. like wants to issue TR for 1-2 years and the automatically convert to full PR, so that people coming on PR also should have to wait for 6-7 years to be eligible for Citizenship, if new law passes.. one way the other government wants to increase the waiting period to be eligible for citizenship..

[crunchy]

I have a strange feeling that NX team will support the 4 years waiting perioed . I see very rare chace for the people who were already permanent residents at the time of Citizenship overhaul announcement to apply under the old rules . I'm reffering to the recommendation made by senators which was to exclude the people who were already permanent residents on or before April 2017.

I am due to apply by the end of November but now seeing a very rare chances. Minister might review english tests but seems highly unlikely to future date the changes .

 ?? 

 

[crunchy]

Malcolm Turnbull reconsidering the waiting time and english test .

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/09/21/20/08/govt-looking-into-citizenship-waiting-time

 

[seeker]

9 hours ago, crunchy said:

Malcolm Turnbull reconsidering the waiting time and english test .

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/09/21/20/08/govt-looking-into-citizenship-waiting-time

 

No need to consider those words.. Looks like he said those words without any stand or clarity just to answer the question raised by citizen.

[wombatinabox]

Hi Folks,

In my opinion based on my latest conversations (via email, phone and social media) and responses with Senators from various parties this bill is dead. Let's just sample Nick Xenophon's policy adviser Latest response to my email (cut out the long story and for simplification):

" If new citizenship bill 2017 is not voted on by 18 October, the bill will be discharged. Nick and his NXT colleagues supported this amendment for two reasons:
1. People whose lives are currently in limbo as a result of this bill will be able to move forward after this date without added stress concerning uncertainties in their future.
2. As a democratic society, NXT believes that disallowance motions should be avoided where possible so that there is an opportunity to debate the issue being put forward, rather than ?gagging? the issue.
NXT has confirmed that it will not support the Turnbull government proposed changes in their current form. NXT opposed most elements of the package; including retrospective changes that would require permanent residents to wait for four years before applying for citizenship, higher-level English language testing, and Immigration Minister bid for the power to overturn decisions of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal on citizenship matters. ""

""

This means the following aspects at the very least 100% dead:

- Retrospective aspect (no chance of this happening anymore ever rest assured, please apply NOW if you are eligible otherwise you will regret if bill passes)

- Level 6 IELTS English (no chance)

- New Powers for Minister (possible but might be watered down a bit)

 

If there is a compromise, these aspects might make it:

- New "Values test"

- Lower IELTS English level maybe level 4/5 

- Watered down but New powers for Minister

- 4 years wait period on PR vs current 1 (only for those applying AFTER bill is passed and maybe lowered to 2-3 years)

But think how the government will look to the specific voters they are trying to appeal/please with these laws if they agree on a weak english test and weak bill? i dont think so.

 

Also the Chinese and Indian communities are pissed off (large current and future voting bloc in NSW & VIC)

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/09/18/about-race-baiting-ethnic-groups-condemn-citizenship-bill

 

My main and only concern right now is that the Application freeze Backlog severe consequences (80K+ apps), those applied since April 20 are potentially looking at very long wait time if government does not "accelerate" them or allocate additional resources to compensate for the time lost.

 

Good luck everyone and make sure to keep contacting the relevant senators with your concerns about these changes (available in my previous posts).

Edited September 23, 2017 by wombatinabox

[Spinny_Drift]

Of all the changes this is the most significant:

 

New Powers for Minister (possible but might be watered down a bit) - should be scrapped!

 

A politician should never be in a position where he/she has too much power - for the most part they lack the mental capacity and self-control to properly administer the power with which they've been entrusted.

 

As for asian and chinese communities implying there's a racist under-current to the proposals...well....that's just frustrating (ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?)! If the presumption of racism exists why put yourselves through the misery of staying here? Surely then they would be for more comfortable in a more familiar less hostile environment? I suspect accusations of suspected racism are simply more convenient than actually having to come up with a structured and sensible argument!

[ozpursuit]

If this bill is about greater integration and contribution to the society, the 4 year wait is harsh. Someone said there is no difference between people who came here on direct PR visa vs the temporary visa. But there is.

• 5 years on 457 and one year PR. This person has contributed taxes for 5 years and had spent his hard earned money in the Australian economy. He has likely made his life here, enjoyed the company of his colleagues and friends.
• 10 years on student visa and one year PR. This person, just the same, spent and invested her money to gain an Australian qualification which must have been very expensive for an international student. She's likely working on the side and would've paid taxes. As with person one, she's made a life here, enjoyed the company of her Australian and international friends and had celebrated every occasion that is Australian.

If the bases of the bill are greater social integration and proven contribution to the society, why do those years that person A and B spent on temporary visa are overlooked by the citizenship changes?

I would even argue that those who came in as a direct RP would NOT compare to the contribution and degree of integration that person A and B would've demonstrated.

It is not the citizenship that must be changed, it is the permanent residency program that should be reviewed.

Edited September 25, 2017 by ozpursuit

[Spinny_Drift]

4 minutes ago, ozpursuit said:

It is not the citizenship that must be changed, it is the permanent residency program that should be reviewed.

How so?

[AJ]

2 hours ago, ozpursuit said:

 

 

I would even argue that those who came in as a direct RP would NOT compare to the contribution and degree of integration that person A and B would've demonstrated.

That is the most stupid statement!  I know how much tax my partner has contributed in taxes in the time we have been here, probably more per year than than a vast amount of  temp visa holders earn! (not showing off, it is because of the job that he does) So do not say that direct PR's do not contribute as much - do you know how much everyone earns? I have also spent a great deal of money gaining qualifications 

Edited September 25, 2017 by AJ

[avatar]

It's so quiet, any news guys?

[Roberta2]

Parliament is still in recess.

[seeker]

22 hours ago, avatar said:

It's so quiet, any news guys?

Nothing much happening at this point, NXT and liberals are not making statements on their stand, so nothing much we can expect till Oct 17th/18th. from the other posts looks DIBP has slowed down the Application processing, earlier majority of people used to get approvals less than 2 weeks after taking the citizenship test, but now they are takng more than 2-3 months to give approval, looks looks around 350 people are moved out from Immigration dept to some other resulting in application processing. So weather bill is rejected or approved, government has to speed up the pending applicaitons, otherwise people has to wait for at least an year to citizenship and lost of travel restrictions...

[avatar]

Thanks for that seeker, 

Iam ready to apply by the old rules, but Iam not sure what will happen  after two weeks with the proposal changes. Any good advice?

[seeker]

7 minutes ago, avatar said:

Thanks for that seeker, 

Iam ready to apply by the old rules, but Iam not sure what will happen  after two weeks with the proposal changes. Any good advice?

I would strongly recommend to apply now, Nick team holds the key to pass the bill, and they already confirmed that people who already hold the PR before April 20 should be processed as per the old rules to get their support to pass the bill. in worst case, government may accept to the process the applications who already lodged and convince Nick team. 

[avatar]

6 hours ago, seeker said:

I would strongly recommend to apply now, Nick team holds the key to pass the bill, and they already confirmed that people who already hold the PR before April 20 should be processed as per the old rules to get their support to pass the bill. in worst case, government may accept to the process the applications who already lodged and convince Nick team. 

Thank you again seeker and good luck to everyone 

[David_Brown]

Regarding the 'Retrospective aspect', 

Does that effect everybody who was already a permanent resident on or before 20th April 2017?

Or only those who have been PR for at least a year already, and have been eligible to apply (on current rules) for citizenship since 20th April 2017?

I fit into the first category, as I will have only been PR for just over 11 months when this is likely to pass next month. I was due to apply in November.

Edited September 28, 2017 by David_Brown

[seeker]

6 hours ago, David_Brown said:

Regarding the 'Retrospective aspect', 

Does that effect everybody who was already a permanent resident on or before 20th April 2017?

Or only those who have been PR for at least a year already, and have been eligible to apply (on current rules) for citizenship since 20th April 2017?

I fit into the first category, as I will have only been PR for just over 11 months when this is likely to pass next month. I was due to apply in November.

Retrospective aspect:

In government words: After the bill is passed, people should have 4 years on PR before they lodge citizenship application, this is applicable to the people who lodged the citizenship on or after April 20th. Bill is not passed yet and government can't stop the people to apply for citizenship as per old rules now. so they are using retrospective clause to apply the new rules from the date they announced the changes, which is April 20th. 

We will get the bill outcome  in Oct, you would get the full info then. 

[Ali369829]

Existing resident on or before 20th April 2017. Doesn't matter he or she eligible or not....

[CowlingAFC]

Hi. 

 

Aplogies if im hijacking anyone's post. 

My 4 years as a PR will be completed in early January 2018. Once I submit my forms to start process for citizenship and complete the first test, is it possible to return to the U.K. Until a date is set for ceremony. 

 

Thankyou all 

[seeker]

11 hours ago, CowlingAFC said:

Hi. 

 

Aplogies if im hijacking anyone's post. 

My 4 years as a PR will be completed in early January 2018. Once I submit my forms to start process for citizenship and complete the first test, is it possible to return to the U.K. Until a date is set for ceremony. 

 

Thankyou all 

Hi,

It is difficult to Answer, I did check with help desk the update I got is, we should inform them about our travel plans, so that they can put a hold on application till you come back and they said don't take longer vacation. After the case is approved( which mean you take the test and got confirmation that you citizenship application is approved) ,you are allowed to travel without any restrictions. but travelling before case is approved is not recommended. 

[Ric]

I've been a permanent resident for 14 months. Is it worth applying under the old rules, pending the outcome re: retroactive clause mid October?

Previously I've had migration consultants lodge applications - is this one that is straightforward to do online? Appreciate any advice. Thanks

[seeker]

14 hours ago, Ric said:

I've been a permanent resident for 14 months. Is it worth applying under the old rules, pending the outcome re: retroactive clause mid October?

Previously I've had migration consultants lodge applications - is this one that is straightforward to do online? Appreciate any advice. Thanks

Hi Ric,

Lodging the online application is straightforward.. nothing confusing and easy to fill. It is definitely worth to lodge the application now..
Dutton canot pass the bill in current form.. In worst scenario he has to agree to process already lodged ones and convince Nick team.. you are safe in this situation
if the bill is lost, you will be in queue already which is also good. 
if you have chance to apply now.. Apply now.. 350 application fee is nothing compared to the waiting times...