Dilemma Oz or UK

[Confuseddotcom]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

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[Bungo]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

 

It is not for me to say whether you should move or not of course as I only know this one post about you. However I am firmly of the view that the lifestyle depends on you and your choices and not what country you are in. And ability to make friends and build a social circle is very much down to the individual and yes some people need to try a little harder than others. I hasten to add that you should not take that as any kind of a dig, I am very much in the "finding it harder than others" camp myself. Actually I am a little bit in the "I'm not particularly bothered" camp but that is possibly with age.

 

However the point is that you will not be handled a social circle of likeminded people when you land in Australia. It will be no easier to build there than it is in UK. I can honestly say, I did not make one single friend in five years in Australia. I made acquaintances and had all the social interactions that I personally needed through work but no, Australia did not hand me a social circle - fortunately in my case I was not particularly looking for one and I certainly did not move hoping to get one.

 

I would examine other reasons for moving, do the pros and cons list as I am sure most of us have at one time. But try to keep it to real things, climate, finances, even travel and adventure is real ... but improving social circle no, I don't think it is something you can bank on at all.

 

Good luck.

[Guest]

Having been on that journey, lived for 5 years in Perth and now back in the UK I'd say it is definitely not worth it.

 

Those that prefer Australia tend to be those that earn more money there and can afford a better house - like you we were financially better off in the UK but believed the 'lifestyle' would be worth it - it wasn't.

 

You are no more likely to have other families to socialise with in Australia, that is all about who you meet & make friends with and that is really no different - if anything a lot of people find it harder to make good friends in Australia, I don't really know why but can only assume it's down to cultural differences.

[jennlx]

I am in exactly the same position as you are, although we have a job offer - and are still considering what our options are. Melbourne was looking pretty good, until we looked at house prices. Holy cow. We live in a tiny 2-bed rental, and looks like we could afford a tiny 2-bed rental. I don't know how we would stretch to a mortgage ever in Australia and if we did, the repayments on a tiny 2-bed make my eyes water. We too have no support here in the UK. But you say you have a nice house, nice village, nice holidays and part time work. That sounds amazing to me.

[Confuseddotcom]

It is not for me to say whether you should move or not of course as I only know this one post about you. However I am firmly of the view that the lifestyle depends on you and your choices and not what country you are in. And ability to make friends and build a social circle is very much down to the individual and yes some people need to try a little harder than others. I hasten to add that you should not take that as any kind of a dig, I am very much in the "finding it harder than others" camp myself. Actually I am a little bit in the "I'm not particularly bothered" camp but that is possibly with age.

 

However the point is that you will not be handled a social circle of likeminded people when you land in Australia. It will be no easier to build there than it is in UK. I can honestly say, I did not make one single friend in five years in Australia. I made acquaintances and had all the social interactions that I personally needed through work but no, Australia did not hand me a social circle - fortunately in my case I was not particularly looking for one and I certainly did not move hoping to get one.

 

I would examine other reasons for moving, do the pros and cons list as I am sure most of us have at one time. But try to keep it to real things, climate, finances, even travel and adventure is real ... but improving social circle no, I don't think it is something you can bank on at all.

 

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply Bungo.

Think I'm pinning my hopes on the social life in Oz based on my observations when I was there a few months ago. Families together at play parks and communal areas in estates.

But as you say it's not like I can just rock up and force myself on them lol.

We do have plenty of friends here but they just aren't as family orientated as us which saddens me.

A lot of thinking to do!!

 

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[Confuseddotcom]

Having been on that journey, lived for 5 years in Perth and now back in the UK I'd say it is definitely not worth it.

 

Those that prefer Australia tend to be those that earn more money there and can afford a better house - like you we were financially better off in the UK but believed the 'lifestyle' would be worth it - it wasn't.

 

You are no more likely to have other families to socialise with in Australia, that is all about who you meet & make friends with and that is really no different - if anything a lot of people find it harder to make good friends in Australia, I don't really know why but can only assume it's down to cultural differences.

That makes a lot of sense to me what you said. I have said this to my husband that we aren't the norm. Most people move to oz for better wages and a better house etc. We are moving solely for the weather.

Did you make the move to and from Oz with kids?

 

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[Confuseddotcom]

I am in exactly the same position as you are, although we have a job offer - and are still considering what our options are. Melbourne was looking pretty good, until we looked at house prices. Holy cow. We live in a tiny 2-bed rental, and looks like we could afford a tiny 2-bed rental. I don't know how we would stretch to a mortgage ever in Australia and if we did, the repayments on a tiny 2-bed make my eyes water. We too have no support here in the UK. But you say you have a nice house, nice village, nice holidays and part time work. That sounds amazing to me.

Thanks for the reply. When do you have to make your decision by? Have you got kids?

On paper life here sounds good but just doesn't feel right and feel like we are missing an opportunity. On flip side I'm petrified of making the move and struggling

 

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[Quoll]

In 32 years in Australia we never had the "families together" kind of friends, in fact very few real "friends" at all that have stood the test of time. Lots of acquaintances who were out for what they could get out of you. If you are incredibly self sufficient (you won't get much help from anyone else) you might make a go of it but I certainly wouldn't move for the weather - stuck inside with windows and curtains closed trying to keep the heat out, sweaty nights, lurching from air conditioned car to air conditioned mall or office for respite. If you live in a nice place now, make ends meet, get good holidays I wouldn't be trying to fix it, it doesn't sound broke to me

[BacktoDemocracy]

I am in exactly the same position as you are, although we have a job offer - and are still considering what our options are. Melbourne was looking pretty good, until we looked at house prices. Holy cow. We live in a tiny 2-bed rental, and looks like we could afford a tiny 2-bed rental. I don't know how we would stretch to a mortgage ever in Australia and if we did, the repayments on a tiny 2-bed make my eyes water. We too have no support here in the UK. But you say you have a nice house, nice village, nice holidays and part time work. That sounds amazing to me.

There is no like button so I will have to post to say I agree with your analysis.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Having been on that journey, lived for 5 years in Perth and now back in the UK I'd say it is definitely not worth it.

 

Those that prefer Australia tend to be those that earn more money there and can afford a better house - like you we were financially better off in the UK but believed the 'lifestyle' would be worth it - it wasn't.

 

You are no more likely to have other families to socialise with in Australia, that is all about who you meet & make friends with and that is really no different - if anything a lot of people find it harder to make good friends in Australia, I don't really know why but can only assume it's down to cultural differences.

 

LR I find my thoughts echoing yours by and large

[Bound4Tassie]

From what you've posted, it doesn't sound like on balance there is much point in the move. Whether you'll meet like minded people in either UK or Aus is down to the particular make up of the area ( are there fellow 'outsiders' looking to meet other families or is it an insular place where people are still friends with those they went to school with and have all their extended family around) and how gregarious you are . I've lived in the same small UK town for nearly 3 yrs. Not made one friend. Partly that's my fault. I haven't really tried very hard knowing we're leaving anyway but also it's incredibly insular. Other mums go to toddler groups with their mates. They've all lived in the same area all their lives. The only ones who will hold a conversation with you are the ones who are either 'from away' ( not many of them here!) or have lived away and come back. Contrast that area to Bedfordshire where we used to live, lots of young couples/ families move to the area for work so there were always fellow 'outsiders' looking to make friends. When I took my daughter to the park in Ulverstone, Tassie ( small town) no other mums were interested in making conversation. I know that's just a snapshot but I can imagine Ulverstone being very insular too. We have the advantage that my husband is from Tassie so we will be 'accepted' into the fold as his family but I imagine it could be hard to get a foot in the door there. Other places I could see being easier.

Sorry bit waffling but my point is I don't think it's an Aus vs UK thing as such.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bound4Tassie

[Bungo]

Thanks for the reply Bungo.

Think I'm pinning my hopes on the social life in Oz based on my observations when I was there a few months ago. Families together at play parks and communal areas in estates.

But as you say it's not like I can just rock up and force myself on them lol.

We do have plenty of friends here but they just aren't as family orientated as us which saddens me.

A lot of thinking to do!!

 

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Indeed these people might be relatives or have known each other for many years. I have also seen groups at communal barbies but never felt the invitation to join them.

 

That makes a lot of sense to me what you said. I have said this to my husband that we aren't the norm. Most people move to oz for better wages and a better house etc. We are moving solely for the weather.

Did you make the move to and from Oz with kids?

 

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Well we moved to Australia for the experience, we were financially worse off from the start however still financially well off. For us it was a great opportunity to live in and explore a different part of the world. I prefer the Australian climate on the whole because I prefer milder winters. But actually the Australian climate is quite extreme and I found much more limiting in being able to spend time outdoors. Spend far more time outdoors now as it is much easier to do so in the UK. Still as I say, I prefer the milder winters and so on balance I prefer the Australian climate and I think that is a reasonable "pro" on the pros and cons list,p for the move.

[newjez]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

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we have that in Sussex. Just move to a child friendly village.

[deryans]

 

we have that in Sussex. Just move to a child friendly village.

We've lived in some of the most beautiful places in the world, but Sussex is pretty hard to beat, now my 8 year old has also found out ray mears lives here and does survival courses!

[Guest]

That makes a lot of sense to me what you said. I have said this to my husband that we aren't the norm. Most people move to oz for better wages and a better house etc. We are moving solely for the weather.

Did you make the move to and from Oz with kids?

 

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Yes, we moved with our son who was 5 at the time so 10 when we moved back. Hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is, I think we were just bored and looking for an adventure. We're nomadic by nature and had moved to Scotland six years previous to settle down and have a family, that adventure was over, our son was going to start school and our lifestyle in Scotland which enabled us to do a lot of travel was going to be curtailed. We were living on a modern housing estate in a village and I think it was a 'OMG we've turned into our parents' moment. We'd always been very outdoorsy and the weather didn't bother us until we had our son when a long bike ride in the rain became more problematic.

 

What we found was suburban life in Perth was no different to suburban life in Scotland and 'bad' weather comes in many forms. Summer in Perth was just as debilitating as Winter in Scotland and we spent no more time outdoors at all.

 

I did have fantastic 'mum friends' in Scotland and never had the same kind of friends in Australia - we had plenty of invites to dinner parties, BBQ's etc but I found it superficial and I was lonely.

[VERYSTORMY]

Seems pretty simple to me. Look around the forum and you will find a huge amount of posts from people struggling to make friends. It is a lot harder in a new country.

 

So if making friends is your main motive then i would say it is a futile idea. Add in you estimate you would be worse off and I don't see the point.

[Beaty]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

Personally, I would go. Give it your all and at least 5 years. Expect to put yourself out of your comfort zone and, remember, LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE! You have 4 ready made friends (ie: partner and 3 kid!?)

 

Work hard, play hard, and put the social efforts in, and see what happens.

 

Life isn't all about earning oddles of money. What matters is that you have enough money.

 

B

[ChrisH1]

I would suggest that reduced finacial stability, and an obligation to work more, with lower quality accommodation are absolutely NOT reasons to move half way around the world.

Alternatives could be to explore expanding local friendship groups and acquiring the social needed to do that, reviewing what social connections you desire as a family, or even relocating in the UK.

 

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[bunbury61]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

If you have most of the boxes ticked ....why toll the dice ?

I always use the analogy ,if you were playing a game of pontoon ( 21 ) ,and you had your life in your hands with your life cards reading 17 or 18 for example ,would you ask for another card ?.

If your friends don't care the same interests ,find some new ones .

Australia is a fantastic country ,and was very good to me ...very very good ...but if you feel lonely here in the u.k ,it will pale into insignificance if you get to oz and fall on your arse .

Is it a better life for your children right now at their age ? ..

Probably yes .

Will it be a better life when they want to move away from mom and dad ? ...thats a more difficult one to answer .

 

If you were broke and jobless living in some **** dead end town ,I would say " go for it " ....but with most of the boxes ticked ,the question is ...what do you want ? ...what are you looking for ?

[MrsWuh]

We're in the same position - three kids, just got our 189 visa, but a comfortable lifestyle, nice house and good income in the UK. The reality of what we're doing is starting to kick in...

 

But if we chicken out now, we will always look back and wonder 'what if'? If we don't try, we will never know. And when it's too late to even try, what then? Regrets and recriminations for evermore?

 

So we will go for it, make the best of it and aim to at least stick it out for long enough to get citizenship. Then if it goes wrong, at least we will all always have the opportunity to go back and try again if we feel so inclined. Or even try New Zealand...!

 

Or we may just find that Dorothy was right all along and there really is no place like home - in which case we will appreciate it all the more when we get back! Go on - take your little kids on an adventure before you lose them to the school system.

[Guest241083]

............I agree with bunbury61......!

............how much of a gamble are you........?

............there are no guarentees in life.......

............there or here..........could work.......or not.......

.............it's how you would cope if things didn't work out........far from what you know and are comfortable with......

.............been here over 20 years and have started from the bottom 4 times.....

.............death,redundancy illness and a fire....!

..............would it of been different elsewhere.....?

...............who knows.......

................my boys have had a lifetime of travel......but their cousins who've lived in the same village all their lives....

.................are just as happy and content.....

..................they both have different bonuses and negatives......

...................children once grown choose their own paths anyway.....

...................my only advice would be to work out what you really need.....

....................will a move give you that....?

.....................good luck with your choice.....

[ali]

We had a very comfortable life in the UK, nice house, good jobs and salaries and plenty of holidays, When we moved to Aus, we both had to step back in our careers with our salaries reflective of that. We didn't move for a McMansion or lots of money. We have over the years made some fantastic friends who have become our family in many ways, we have socialised more here than we did in the UK particularly as a family when the children were younger and now that the kids are older as a couple.

 

No one can make the decision for you - but our move brought about a comparable lifestyle materialistically, with the addition of much deeper friendships than we'd had previously.

 

My 2c worth is perhaps try rent out your house and try it for a year or 2, think of it as an adventure and then decide if to return back to the UK or not.

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply Bungo.

Think I'm pinning my hopes on the social life in Oz based on my observations when I was there a few months ago. Families together at play parks and communal areas in estates.

But as you say it's not like I can just rock up and force myself on them lol.

We do have plenty of friends here but they just aren't as family orientated as us which saddens me.

A lot of thinking to do!!

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

We do a fair bit of families getting together and socialising here which we never did in the UK. We usually meet in a reserve or some such, we all bring something for the BBQ or picnic, hang out, kids play, hire the tennis court, play a bit of stick cricket or the kids use the splash pool and stuff. Its lovely. Or we do BBQ's at houses. But it doesn't happen on its own, it takes time to meet those people, get to know them and so on. But we've done that over time, it took a good year for it to really kick in and those friendships to find their feet and flourish. They are not all migrants either, most are Aussies, some are migrants but that is more met through work or kids than it is because we've set out to meet other migrants.

 

Also its nice to be able to do those things on our own as a family too. We did them in the UK of course but we do do them more here as the weather is better for much of the year so trips to the beach on warm evenings in summer for a dip (and no UV), bike rides in the national parks, hiking trails and so on, we do all those things and more too. Most evenings after dinner at the moment we head to our local reserve which has a basketball hoop and go play for an hour. We usually run into other local families out with their kids doing the same too and often the kids play amongst themselves and the adults chat or carry on playing basketball if so inclined and the kids are off doing something else for a while. Gotten to know a fair number of local families this way.

 

Also we have found kids sports clubs/activities to be great for meeting other families. Ours does footy (AFL not soccer), cricket, Little Athletics and swimming, depending on the season. Footy and Little Aths have been great for meeting other families and doing stuff socially. Even when the season ends this continues. Cricket not so much but we do that via school so the friendships are already there.

 

We also hold a street BBQ in the run up to Christmas and invite all the people in our street (its not masses as its a small street) and about 3/4's of them come along. Its lovely as we've met our new neighbours and are all on first name terms, kids play at each others houses, we and they know we can pop round to someone if in need. Example, my next door neighbour sent a message the other day after the storms here asking if we could check their house and the big gum in their yard in case of damage as they were away for a dew days and we were happy to of course. Without the street BBQ we'd not have exchanged numbers for them to be able to get in touch. Or we just pop round for a catch up over coffee or invite over for BBQ's or some such over the year. We never ever had that in the UK. Sure we knew our immediate neighbours either side by name but that was it. Never got an invite, didn't know people across the street or doors down, hardly used to get more than a wave after years of living there. Here we had neighbours coming over to introduce themselves in the week or two after we moved in, giving or lending us gardening equipment to help start us off, helping us move furniture and more. Of course, this could happen to people anywhere and it might not have happened if we had bought in a much bigger street perhaps. We may be extremely lucky with where we bought our house.

 

Honestly, we are not great ones for pubs or bars and so are more than happy to do this kind of socialising, it works well for us. We like our nights out though but prefer cinema, theatre, shows and so on over a pub or bar.

 

As to if this sort of thing would be your experience, impossible to know or say. We have managed it and enjoy those things but we also are a bit better off here as we were living in a very expensive part of England but a not so expensive area/city here and incomes are good. Its been a good move for us though its taken some work of course. We don't live extravagantly, only run one older car but we have a life we are very happy with and its balanced out well.

[LKC]

We moved to Australia (Sydney) about eight years ago, with two children (aged one and two). OH was offered a job opportunity, and we felt that we would be silly to turn it down, particularly since the kids were small and hadn't yet made strong bonds with family members (we lived far from family anyway), and hadn't started school. So, we looked at it as a bit of an adventure and said that we'd stay at least until we gained citizenship.

 

Fast forward to now, eight years later, and we have made the decision to return to the UK. Whilst we have (mostly) been happy here, there are many reasons for us to look at returning back to the UK. Some of them are to do with wanting to be closer to family and friends. OH earns a fairly good salary, but it is so expensive to live here that we don't have the spare cash to go on holidays and things. We went to the UK in September/October for a holiday and that pretty much wiped out our savings. We couldn't afford a holiday the year before (although in fairness we were renovating our kitchen/flooring), so all we had was a long weekend away with OH's parents (they paid, and even then OH could only join us for a couple of those days because he had to work). We don't have the time or the money to just pop up to Queensland for the weekend, or down to Melbourne. In fact outside the small area of NSW that we've explored by car, the only other place we've been is Tasmania.

 

The other big reason that we are moving back is that in the eight years we have been here I have made two friends, and both of them are migrants themselves (from the US and Slovakia). I know other people from school etc, but I have found it next to impossible to actually make friends with these women. They are happy to use me when it suits, for example for running their kids round to and from school stuff or having them for the day during the holidays if they need to go somewhere, but they don't include me in the things they do together, for example picnics and so on in the school holidays or play dates after school. The area we live in prides itself on being very family friendly, and there are loads of parks with groups of friends chatting whilst their kids play, but for some reason I've found it really hard. I thought it was me, but I had lots of very good friends in the UK, and I know of other people who have had the same difficulties in making friends here.

 

I don't know whether it is a cultural thing, whether I am seen as an outsider or something maybe? We specifically chose an area that was more 'Australian' and with a lower percentage of migrants because we didn't want to move to a little enclave of 'Brits in the sun'. Maybe that was our mistake? Maybe it is more to do with the area than anything else? We wanted to live like Australians, be part of Australian society, we've tried to fit in, but it just hasn't worked for us. It was really brought home to me a couple of years ago when we had some of our friends from the UK over to stay. We'd not seen them for about 10 years (they moved away), and had only kept in touch nominally via the odd email or Facebook message, but for the time they were here it was just like we'd not had that 10 years apart. The conversation flowed like it always had. That made me realise just how disfunctional my social life/friendships are here. I find the same with my American and Slovak friends, we just 'get' each other somehow. I can't even put my finger on why. Maybe we are more culturally similar, with similar backgrounds, sense of humour, more shared history or experience or something? I don't really know.

 

However, having said all that I know that other people have had completely different experiences to us and have had a better work-life balance are better off financially and have settled and made lots of friends. I would say that it would probably depend very much on the area you move to, just as it would in the UK and if I were in your situation I would probably try a move within the UK first, and then a move to Australia later down the line if you still have that itch you need to scratch. I wouldn't gamble the financial security of my family without trying something less risky first. If that makes sense?

[flag of convenience]

I don't see what you hope to gain by such a venture. I understand a change of scene but the desires of the OP are not along those lines.

Families are pretty much closed units, by and large in Australia. What the OP witnessed may well have been extensions of the family unit getting together.

 

If seeking a better social family based lifestyle, built around other families, I'd certainly be hesitant to include that in my reasons to uproot.

Australia can indeed be a very socially challenging country on all levels. I doubt any better than England, apart from less focus on the pub.