Just trying to work some stuff out.

[LKC]

Oh were you in Bury?! So was Daniel Watts! My mob were all from around that area - Mildenhall mainly- so there is a sort of ancestral gene connection thing going on for me there but I would be equally at home up in Durham/Northumberland or even central London (for the same reasons). I don't know, though that anywhere is perfect for me - Cambridge is lovely but familiarity breeds contempt and I really have to shake myself to say, this is only temporary, make the most of every minute (we had no choice, we are living in my parents' home, and if I had been free to choose I would have chosen somewhere different). To a degree, there is the curse of the expat - I just have itchy feet I guess and see no need to "settle" for the duration, anywhere but not everyone feels that way. I think I would be happy in a camper van LOL

 

I guess you could either stick a pin or prioritise like crazy - Herefordshire is lovely, Devon and Cornwall are to die for, North Yorkshire is rugged, The Highlands are even ruggeder - spoiled for choice really!

 

Yes, we were in Cambridge as students/for a while after, then moved up to Ely, down to Haverhill very briefly as OH's job changed, then to Ashdon and then to Ashfield Green near Wickhambrook. I had eldest at The Rosie and youngest in Bury St Edmunds. It is a gorgeous area, we just didn't settle. We're in the Highlands at the moment, and I could see us settling somewhere around Inverness. We're lucky that we are so spoilt for choice!

[LKC]

I just wanted to wish you well LKC. I understand the need to feel a sense of belonging as it is a powerful emotion but if it is the holiday that has unsettled you, there is perhaps a good chance that a return the familiarity of your home and routine in Aus will restore the balance.

 

On the other hand if your sense of belonging was out of kilter before the holiday, perhaps it is time to talk through the options with your OH and agree a timeframe for moving on to the next chapter for your family. We make and remake decisions all our lives and, while this seems a huge dilemma now, it is manageable as you have options and a partner who is happy to work through those options with you. Take care, T x

 

My sense of belonging has been out of whack for a while, if I'm honest. We visited the UK three years ago, and I did feel a bit homesick afterwards but seemed to get back into my routine. Then we had some friends come to stay from the UK, and it reminded me what great times and dear friends we had in the UK. I was pretty depressed for about six months after their visit, but then I started at uni which kept me busy. I have two good friends in Australia, both are migrants, one from Slovakia and one from the US, and we have a real deep connection. I don't know whether it is because they are migrants and therefore in the same situation, or whether it is because we just have the same outlook/sense of humour. However, the Aussies I know just don't seem to want to know, if that makes sense. They do the shallow chit-chat of the playground pick-up, but nothing deeper. I've tried to connect, ask them over for a coffee, or to meet in town for coffee or lunch, and they say yes but then make excuses. Maybe I'm an unlikeable person, but then why did I have so many close friends in the UK?

 

I will go back to Australia and see what happens. I will try and keep myself physically and mentally healthy, and then try and look at my situation with fresh eyes. It could be our amazing holiday which has made me feel this way, but even if it isn't I am sure that I will cope.

[LKC]

If i remember right you hadnt been back in the uk for a long tine till now? It could just be a mix of feelings. Like someone else said - think about where you want to be when you're older. Enjoy the rest of your holiday and see how you feel after a few weeks of being back. You might settle back in australia.

 

If you did decide to move to scotland/england after looking at jobs then i can give you the names of some autism services if you wanted, i work for one.

 

Where have you been in scotland so far? Hope you enjoy the rest of your time

 

Thanks Quokka2005. We were back in the UK for a holiday three years ago, but just visited Kent, Birmingham and Cambridgeshire which is where the majority of our family and friends are. We decided to have a holiday here this time, in addition to visiting, which is why we are in Scotland. I will see how I feel after we get back. I'm not really one for rash decisions, I tend to ponder for a while! Thank you for your offer of help with the autism services. That is one thing that I will have to find out from scratch as I don't know how things work in the UK.

 

Our Scottish holiday has been wonderful. We drove up via Falkirk (visited the Falkirk Wheel and The Kelpies), then up to stay in Loch Tay (Lawers) for four nights. Whilst we were there we did some walking, looked around Castle Menzies, went to Enchanted Forest at Pitlochry, went to Killin, the Birks of Aberfeldy, The Scottish Crannog Centre and lots of other places in between! We then drove from Loch Tay up to Fort William through Glen Coe, to Glen Nevis and then up to Loch Knockie (near Loch Ness) where we have been for three nights. We've visited Culloden Moor, Clava Cairn, Urquhart Castle, Corimmony Cairn, and today we went up to Spey Bay which was beautiful. Tomorrow we are driving back to Edinburgh via the Cairngorms and the Highland Folk Museum, will go to Edinburgh Castle in the afternoon, and then early Tuesday morning we will start out on our 9 hour drive back to Kent. You can probably tell we're not really a sitting still on the beach kind of family :biglaugh:!

[JockinTas]

Thanks Quokka2005. We were back in the UK for a holiday three years ago, but just visited Kent, Birmingham and Cambridgeshire which is where the majority of our family and friends are. We decided to have a holiday here this time, in addition to visiting, which is why we are in Scotland. I will see how I feel after we get back. I'm not really one for rash decisions, I tend to ponder for a while! Thank you for your offer of help with the autism services. That is one thing that I will have to find out from scratch as I don't know how things work in the UK.

 

Our Scottish holiday has been wonderful. We drove up via Falkirk (visited the Falkirk Wheel and The Kelpies), then up to stay in Loch Tay (Lawers) for four nights. Whilst we were there we did some walking, looked around Castle Menzies, went to Enchanted Forest at Pitlochry, went to Killin, the Birks of Aberfeldy, The Scottish Crannog Centre and lots of other places in between! We then drove from Loch Tay up to Fort William through Glen Coe, to Glen Nevis and then up to Loch Knockie (near Loch Ness) where we have been for three nights. We've visited Culloden Moor, Clava Cairn, Urquhart Castle, Corimmony Cairn, and today we went up to Spey Bay which was beautiful. Tomorrow we are driving back to Edinburgh via the Cairngorms and the Highland Folk Museum, will go to Edinburgh Castle in the afternoon, and then early Tuesday morning we will start out on our 9 hour drive back to Kent. You can probably tell we're not really a sitting still on the beach kind of family :biglaugh:!

 

Isn't Scotland just a great place LKC. :smile: You've probably seen more of Scotland than a lot of Scots living there have. I also love the Hebrides. Could easily live there.

 

I look forward to seeing how you settle back into life here once you return to Sydney. Who knows where you might end up living. Enjoy the rest of your holiday!

[Quokka2005]

Thanks Quokka2005. We were back in the UK for a holiday three years ago, but just visited Kent, Birmingham and Cambridgeshire which is where the majority of our family and friends are. We decided to have a holiday here this time, in addition to visiting, which is why we are in Scotland. I will see how I feel after we get back. I'm not really one for rash decisions, I tend to ponder for a while! Thank you for your offer of help with the autism services. That is one thing that I will have to find out from scratch as I don't know how things work in the UK.

 

Our Scottish holiday has been wonderful. We drove up via Falkirk (visited the Falkirk Wheel and The Kelpies), then up to stay in Loch Tay (Lawers) for four nights. Whilst we were there we did some walking, looked around Castle Menzies, went to Enchanted Forest at Pitlochry, went to Killin, the Birks of Aberfeldy, The Scottish Crannog Centre and lots of other places in between! We then drove from Loch Tay up to Fort William through Glen Coe, to Glen Nevis and then up to Loch Knockie (near Loch Ness) where we have been for three nights. We've visited Culloden Moor, Clava Cairn, Urquhart Castle, Corimmony Cairn, and today we went up to Spey Bay which was beautiful. Tomorrow we are driving back to Edinburgh via the Cairngorms and the Highland Folk Museum, will go to Edinburgh Castle in the afternoon, and then early Tuesday morning we will start out on our 9 hour drive back to Kent. You can probably tell we're not really a sitting still on the beach kind of family :biglaugh:!

 

Wow that sounds amazing!! You've been to more places than i have. I was desperate to go to the enchanted forest, one of my school mates helps with it but the tickets are out. I hope you enjoy the cairngorms and edinburgh

[Marisawright]

Perth in taking all into consideration as good as(or close)as the other capitals.

 

I find it absolutely astonishing that you should say that. My niece (who's a Londoner) is very close in character to me, and while she loved living in Sydney and Melbourne, she did not take to Perth at all. She felt it was dramatically different - to the point where, having worked there a few months for her UK employer, she turned down the chance to take a 457. She was tempted by the opportunity to transition to PR and then move to Sydney, but she couldn't stand the idea of having to stick it out in Perth for 3 or 4 years!

 

I also have a few acquaintances who moved from Perth to Sydney or vice versa, and it does seem that those who love Perth hate Sydney and vice versa - more evidence that they are very different.

 

And by the way, I meant to say - Melbourne is barely Asian at all. It has a large Chinatown which has taken over a big slice of the CBD, but apart from that and Richmond, there is very little Asian influence. I certainly notice the difference, being so used to the overwhelming Asian presence in large areas of Sydney - which I never had a problem with anyway.

[flag of convenience]

I find it absolutely astonishing that you should say that. My niece (who's a Londoner) is very close in character to me, and while she loved living in Sydney and Melbourne, she did not take to Perth at all. She felt it was dramatically different - to the point where, having worked there a few months for her UK employer, she turned down the chance to take a 457. She was tempted by the opportunity to transition to PR and then move to Sydney, but she couldn't stand the idea of having to stick it out in Perth for 3 or 4 years!

 

I also have a few acquaintances who moved from Perth to Sydney or vice versa, and it does seem that those who love Perth hate Sydney and vice versa - more evidence that they are very different.

 

And by the way, I meant to say - Melbourne is barely Asian at all. It has a large Chinatown which has taken over a big slice of the CBD, but apart from that and Richmond, there is very little Asian influence. I certainly notice the difference, being so used to the overwhelming Asian presence in large areas of Sydney - which I never had a problem with anyway.

 

Well I would have stated the same thing at your nieces age and beyond, but realities over whelm emotional responses at certain times in our lives, I suppose. The fact is I do not find Sydney worth the sacrifice at all. I could never afford to live near the city as I do in Perth, besides I find Sydney one over rated city at best, and a rip off at worse with poor life quality. I will be back there in January anyway, to make a on the spot, updated conclusion.

 

Of course no Australian cities will match the European reality. If that is required then the answer is life in a European city. Nowhere here would begin to compare with Amsterdam for example of what urban life can mean. People kid themselves about Melbourne, IMO, but I am on record of saying it is probably my favourite Australian city, but still unlikely I'd live in a location as I do here in Perth, if moved over there.

 

A Melbourne suburb is hardly much different from elsewhere, unless able to live in one of the more happening 'burbs' which are increasingly out of reach of ordinary working people.

 

There will always be a certain Perth seemingly induced attitude which I will never subscribe to and believe me I am all too aware of the limitations in this place.

 

Another option would be seek out what this country has and not what it hasn't. While it doesn't do 'urban' very well, it does ' nature' far better. One could do worse than look at some open minded, less conservative rural localities like Northern NSW for example.

[JockinTas]

Well I would have stated the same thing at your nieces age and beyond, but realities over whelm emotional responses at certain times in our lives, I suppose. The fact is I do not find Sydney worth the sacrifice at all. I could never afford to live near the city as I do in Perth, besides I find Sydney one over rated city at best, and a rip off at worse with poor life quality. I will be back there in January anyway, to make a on the spot, updated conclusion.

 

Of course no Australian cities will match the European reality. If that is required then the answer is life in a European city. Nowhere here would begin to compare with Amsterdam for example of what urban life can mean. People kid themselves about Melbourne, IMO, but I am on record of saying it is probably my favourite Australian city, but still unlikely I'd live in a location as I do here in Perth, if moved over there.

 

A Melbourne suburb is hardly much different from elsewhere, unless able to live in one of the more happening 'burbs' which are increasingly out of reach of ordinary working people.

 

There will always be a certain Perth seemingly induced attitude which I will never subscribe to and believe me I am all too aware of the limitations in this place.

 

Another option would be seek out what this country has and not what it hasn't. While it doesn't do 'urban' very well, it does ' nature' far better. One could do worse than look at some open minded, less conservative rural localities like Northern NSW for example.

 

Sydney is certainly hugely overpriced these days no doubt about that. I can't say we had a poor quality of life for the over 20 years we lived there but we had been able to afford a nice house in a good suburb way back in the day. Doubt very much if we could do it if we were starting our life in Sydney nowadays though. Don't forget there are loads of people living in Sydney with a very good quality of life. To me, it's just another city and I've blabbered on before about what I think of city life. I wouldn't live in British or European city either.

[flag of convenience]

Sydney is certainly hugely overpriced these days no doubt about that. I can't say we had a poor quality of life for the over 20 years we lived there but we had been able to afford a nice house in a good suburb way back in the day. Doubt very much if we could do it if we were starting our life in Sydney nowadays though. Don't forget there are loads of people living in Sydney with a very good quality of life. To me, it's just another city and I've blabbered on before about what I think of city life. I wouldn't live in British or European city either.

I'll hold my fire on Sydney until reacquaint myself with the place again in January. Cities of course, supposed to be all inspiring sort places , that open up aspects of life not available in smaller places. They should be inclusive and invigorating.

I suspect the inequality in Sydney exceeds most European cities. Most can certainly not afford the real estate bubble found there.

[george70]

Worked in Amsterdam for 6 months, hated it. The weather is toilet and the Dutch are ruder than the Aussies. Cut price Germans.

[bristolman]

We found the Dutch to be lovely people, far far friendlier than Germans and very helpful.

[bunbury61]

Worked in Amsterdam for 6 months, hated it. The weather is toilet and the Dutch are ruder than the Aussies. Cut price Germans.

 

Visited Amsterdam a few times ...doesnt do it for me .

[northernbird]

Worked in Amsterdam for 6 months, hated it. The weather is toilet and the Dutch are ruder than the Aussies. Cut price Germans.

 

Agree, the ex spent 2 years working in The Hague and the Dutch are odd. Lovely country though, shame about the people!

[Quokka2005]

My west coast trip had a few dutch. They were ok but quite arrogant. I got on with the other nationalities better especially german. Made some really nice german friends in perth. I'd barely met any gmans before australia and always thought of the stereotype

[LKC]

Just further to my original post, OH have been talking about things, and obviously we would need to very carefully weigh up the pros and cons. I just wondered if you could help answer a few questions generally about the process of moving back and also some questions about money/cost of living etc.

 

First of all, with respect to moving back, we have two children who would (obviously) need to go to school. Is there a three year wait for them to be able to go to state school without fees as there is with uni, or would they be able to go from when we moved back? We've been out of the UK for eight years if that has a bearing. Same question with regards to NHS. We have dual citizenship (all born in the UK with Aussie citizenship gained three years ago). I presume that there is a wait for things like benefits, although I don't anticipate that we'd qualify anyway. Secondly, we have four cats, and leaving them here is definitely not on the cards. So, we would have to factor in fees to return them to the UK. Does anyone have a ballpark figure for this? Likewise does anyone have an idea of shipping costs from Sydney to either the south of England (OH's family are in Kent, which we may go to first of all) or Edinburgh?

 

I'd also like to ask more generally about the cost of living. Oh earns a (very) good salary here, although it does vary somewhat from month to month due to a large part of it being profit related bonus. I know that the salary for his job 'seems' lower in the UK, but our standard of living would depend somewhat on how far his salary stretched and whether I returned to work. He would likely get about 30k GBP for a job doing what he trained for, but possibly a bit more as a store director/manager due to the 20 years experience he has in the business. We would probably look away from southern England, and perhaps even towards Scotland as we don't want to simply try and fit back in where we left off. We are incredibly fortunate in that we'd probably be able to buy a house outright and maybe even a second rental property (perhaps a holiday let which I would manage/clean/advertise etc) depending on what our Sydney house/business sold for and how far that would stretch, so we wouldn't have rent/mortgage to factor in after the initial few months. We aren't extravagant with money (hence having paid off the mortgage) and don't live what I would call a luxury lifestyle, but I don't want to feel that we are struggling. We've done enough of that over the years! Would a single salary of about 30-35k GBP be okay? It is surprising how far out of touch with UK costs I've become over the last eight years, and I don't have a clue as to whether we'd manage!

 

Sorry to ask for more advice, but I am a bit of a worrier and would like to carefully present all possible scenarios to myself so that I can be sure we are doing the right thing by either staying or moving back.

[Perthbum]

Worked in Amsterdam for 6 months, hated it. The weather is toilet and the Dutch are ruder than the Aussies. Cut price Germans.

dutch are lovely

Edited October 14, 2016 by Perthbum

[caramac]

You wouldn't have to wait for three years for the girls to start school. You come back and apply for a school you like (in some areas the good/popular ones are oversubscribed, in which case you might not get your first choice) and they start as soon as you're organised.

Similarly with the NHS. Come back, register with a dr and you're away. If you need hospital appointments, you may need to prove your residency, but it doesn't always happen. The only thing I would say is, if your daughter needed to engage with children's mental health services (not school based psychologists/assistants) the waiting lists for assessment can be at least two years, so if you think you may need to access them it might pay to research your preferred areas before moving.

On a salary of £30/35k you will be entitled to child benefit and I was able to claim that as soon as we arrived, but that's going back a few years now when it was a universal benefit. It may have changed since. You can check on the government website for up to date information. I don't know what the upper limit is for tax credits - they're on a sliding scale and you get nothing over a certain income. Might be worth checking that too.

With no mortgage, you should have a good standard of living on that salary, especially away from the SE. There is a lot of competition between energy companies, supermarkets etc, so even though it's a bit of a pain doing comparisons, you can get some good deals.

I don't know how much it would be for you to bring the cats, but our little, cat sized dog cost just over $3,500 to bring over.

[starlight7]

I have found Dutch people to be very friendly,too. Not that keen on Amsterdam because it is a bit over the top for me but if I was 25 years old I am sure I would love it- as I did when we first went there in the 1970s.

[LKC]

You wouldn't have to wait for three years for the girls to start school. You come back and apply for a school you like (in some areas the good/popular ones are oversubscribed, in which case you might not get your first choice) and they start as soon as you're organised.

Similarly with the NHS. Come back, register with a dr and you're away. If you need hospital appointments, you may need to prove your residency, but it doesn't always happen. The only thing I would say is, if your daughter needed to engage with children's mental health services (not school based psychologists/assistants) the waiting lists for assessment can be at least two years, so if you think you may need to access them it might pay to research your preferred areas before moving.

On a salary of £30/35k you will be entitled to child benefit and I was able to claim that as soon as we arrived, but that's going back a few years now when it was a universal benefit. It may have changed since. You can check on the government website for up to date information. I don't know what the upper limit is for tax credits - they're on a sliding scale and you get nothing over a certain income. Might be worth checking that too.

With no mortgage, you should have a good standard of living on that salary, especially away from the SE. There is a lot of competition between energy companies, supermarkets etc, so even though it's a bit of a pain doing comparisons, you can get some good deals.

I don't know how much it would be for you to bring the cats, but our little, cat sized dog cost just over $3,500 to bring over.

 

Great information! Thank you for taking the time to reply!

[bristolman]

Just further to my original post, OH have been talking about things, and obviously we would need to very carefully weigh up the pros and cons. I just wondered if you could help answer a few questions generally about the process of moving back and also some questions about money/cost of living etc.

 

First of all, with respect to moving back, we have two children who would (obviously) need to go to school. Is there a three year wait for them to be able to go to state school without fees as there is with uni, or would they be able to go from when we moved back? We've been out of the UK for eight years if that has a bearing. Same question with regards to NHS. We have dual citizenship (all born in the UK with Aussie citizenship gained three years ago). I presume that there is a wait for things like benefits, although I don't anticipate that we'd qualify anyway. Secondly, we have four cats, and leaving them here is definitely not on the cards. So, we would have to factor in fees to return them to the UK. Does anyone have a ballpark figure for this? Likewise does anyone have an idea of shipping costs from Sydney to either the south of England (OH's family are in Kent, which we may go to first of all) or Edinburgh?

 

I'd also like to ask more generally about the cost of living. Oh earns a (very) good salary here, although it does vary somewhat from month to month due to a large part of it being profit related bonus. I know that the salary for his job 'seems' lower in the UK, but our standard of living would depend somewhat on how far his salary stretched and whether I returned to work. He would likely get about 30k GBP for a job doing what he trained for, but possibly a bit more as a store director/manager due to the 20 years experience he has in the business. We would probably look away from southern England, and perhaps even towards Scotland as we don't want to simply try and fit back in where we left off. We are incredibly fortunate in that we'd probably be able to buy a house outright and maybe even a second rental property (perhaps a holiday let which I would manage/clean/advertise etc) depending on what our Sydney house/business sold for and how far that would stretch, so we wouldn't have rent/mortgage to factor in after the initial few months. We aren't extravagant with money (hence having paid off the mortgage) and don't live what I would call a luxury lifestyle, but I don't want to feel that we are struggling. We've done enough of that over the years! Would a single salary of about 30-35k GBP be okay? It is surprising how far out of touch with UK costs I've become over the last eight years, and I don't have a clue as to whether we'd manage!

 

Sorry to ask for more advice, but I am a bit of a worrier and would like to carefully present all possible scenarios to myself so that I can be sure we are doing the right thing by either staying or moving back.

 

As has been said no fees or waiting for the kids State school, just enroll them. Ours got into a really good school in the next town, it was our first choice based on what people had advised us and it seems like the right choice as they are doing really well.

Same with the NHS, just register with the local GP and dentist.

We are finding the cost of living cheaper here, noticeably. Most food is cheaper and utilities (gas and electricity) also cheaper, a huge amount of competition helps there.

It's a big decision obviously but we don't regret it for a minute, the kids love it as do we. All the best whatever you decide.

[LKC]

As has been said no fees or waiting for the kids State school, just enroll them. Ours got into a really good school in the next town, it was our first choice based on what people had advised us and it seems like the right choice as they are doing really well.

Same with the NHS, just register with the local GP and dentist.

We are finding the cost of living cheaper here, noticeably. Most food is cheaper and utilities (gas and electricity) also cheaper, a huge amount of competition helps there.

It's a big decision obviously but we don't regret it for a minute, the kids love it as do we. All the best whatever you decide.

 

Again, thank you for the reply. We're noticing that food shopping is cheaper. In fact I've started on a spreadsheet, comparing our usual Australian supermarket shop to a Tesco and Sainsburys one, and it does seem to be coming out cheaper for most things. Of course it is difficult to know what proportion of our monthly budget would be spent at the supermarket (so I can compare to Australia without the exchange rate getting in the way) until I look at things like potential salary after tax, car costs, utilities etc.

[george70]

Yeah that sounds about right. We have a spreadsheet too! And whilst stuff looks cheap when googling UK sites, personally, I am not expecting to earn anything like I do here when back in the UK.

[LKC]

Yeah that sounds about right. We have a spreadsheet too! And whilst stuff looks cheap when googling UK sites, personally, I am not expecting to earn anything like I do here when back in the UK.

 

I suppose it comes down to affordability. Salaries are higher here, but it costs more to live here. The thing that matters is how far your salary can stretch.

[suesmalls]

Hi @LKC I've been looking around at posts etc about taking cats to England - haven't contacted carriers direct as our timing is unknown due to house sale (and impending surgery). Ball park figures are around $3500 for the cats. We have 2 and there isn't a chance I would leave them here. Most are telling me Dogtainers, JetPets and there are definitely more carriers. Also I found out that some of the shipping companies have corporate rates with the pet carriers - would hope (and expect) you get better deal for the 4.

 

I'm so happy you are going to take your fur babies - I understand if you didn't due to financial reasons and stress - but so glad you're seriously considering it (of cause I am a crazy cat lady).

 

Been following your posts and wish you well - I also have similar questions to yourself so thank you for posting as it's helping me get some details. Unfortunately we wont be in position to buy house etc when we got to England and financially this move will wipe us. I did some reading on the gov.uk website which is very helpful. From what I can gather a 3 month wait may be required to access benefits etc. Whilst you have citizenship you need to prove your habitual residency in UK (which takes 3 months). I'd go to their website as it's fairly well laid out. They do also have contact #'s and email contact.

https://www.gov.uk/

 

Not sure if this may help but I used an agency called 1st Contact (in eastern states and UK) to get my british passport - they may be able to assist with some questions as they seem to know the inside and out of the whole migration process. I didn't ask them myself about these kind of things as I took it from the UK government website. Hopefully this isn't a bum steer.

 

Have a good day

[VERYSTORMY]

All I can say is that I earn a lot less than I did in Oz, but, we are significantly better off. I can save more and have more disposable cash.