eu referendum update

[BacktoDemocracy]

The fruit got picked and everything else got done before they came, I'm sure it will all be OK. There aren't as many workshy as people think but there are lots of people out of work who would love a decently paid job. There may be opportunities then do you think? So everything's not doom and gloom.

Why do you think there will be "decently paid jobs", it'll still be the same Tory party in charge or do you think BoJo is going to do away with zero hours contracts and increase the minimum wage by 20%.

I dropped my wife at work today at the hospital, she works in a 1884 building built as a Workhouse, tell me where that is commonplace in Western Europe, that's not the fault of the EU it's the UK govt's, that building will still be in use until the NHS is finally privatised by the UK Tory govt, there will be no constraint on what this govt can do now, they have the control which they have been having wet dreams about since the1980's.

[Cal2]

not sovereign by the EU, but very much governed by their rules and regulations, the sovereign is the Queen, but she does not govern.

 

Freedom of movement will be governed by visas same as it is here in Australia and very many other countries

 

Imports may go up - but then maybe they'll buy British

 

People from outside the EU have always had to apply for a visa to visit, live or work in the UK.

 

TBH there are two many unknowns to say what exactly will happen, more so, because it was unexpected.

 

Interestingly with regards to immigration, I think it was Birmingham where more than 50% of the voters were from families who had emmigrated to Britain and Birmingham voted to leave.

 

There's a whole other world outside of the EU, sometimes in Britain we're very blinkered by Europe, which basically means Britain hasn't been looking or been allowed to look beyond the end of its nose (Europe).

[The Raillys]

So what are these Rules and regulations that we will be getting rid of that are causing the UK so much harm? I never actually hear what will be better... other than the racists going on about immigration.

 

Please tell me what are these horrible Rules the EU has put on us?

Please someone answer this sensibly.

Edited June 28, 2016 by The Raillys

[newjez]

The majority vote by Britons to leave the European Union was an act of raw democracy. Millions of ordinary people refused to be bullied, intimidated and dismissed with open contempt by their presumed betters in the major parties, the leaders of the business and banking oligarchy and the media.

 

This was, in great part, a vote by those angered and demoralised by the sheer arrogance of the apologists for the "remain" campaign and the dismemberment of a socially just civil life in Britain. The last bastion of the historic reforms of 1945, the National Health Service, has been so subverted by Tory and Labour-supported privateers it is fighting for its life.

 

A forewarning came when the Treasurer, George Osborne, the embodiment of both Britain's ancient regime and the banking mafia in Europe, threatened to cut £30 billion from public services if people voted the wrong way; it was blackmail on a shocking scale.

 

Immigration was exploited in the campaign with consummate cynicism, not only by populist politicians from the lunar right, but by Labour politicians drawing on their own venerable tradition of promoting and nurturing racism, a symptom of corruption not at the bottom but at the top. The reason millions of refugees have fled the Middle East - irst Iraq, now Syria - are the invasions and imperial mayhem of Britain, the United States, France, the European Union and Nato. Before that, there was the wilful destruction of Yugoslavia. Before that, there was the theft of Palestine and the imposition of Israel.

 

The pith helmets may have long gone, but the blood has never dried. A nineteenth century contempt for countries and peoples, depending on their degree of colonial usefulness, remains a centrepiece of modern "globalisation", with its perverse socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor: its freedom for capital and denial of freedom to labour; its perfidious politicians and politicised civil servants.

 

All this has now come home to Europe, enriching the likes of Tony Blair and impoverishing and disempowering millions. On 23 June, the British said no more.

 

The most effective propagandists of the "European ideal" have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even "cool". What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as "neoliberalism".

 

The aim of this extremism is to install a permanent, capitalist theocracy that ensures a two-thirds society, with the majority divided and indebted, managed by a corporate class, and a permanent working poor. In Britain today, 63 per cent of poor children grow up in families where one member is working. For them, the trap has closed. More than 600,000 residents of Britain's second city, Greater Manchester, are, reports a study, "experiencing the effects of extreme poverty" and 1.6 million are slipping into penury.

 

Little of this social catastrophe is acknowledged in the bourgeois controlled media, notably the Oxbridge dominated BBC. During the referendum campaign, almost no insightful analysis was allowed to intrude upon the clichéd hysteria about "leaving Europe", as if Britain was about to be towed in hostile currents somewhere north of Iceland.

 

Read more : http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe

 

Damn it John I thought you had written that. I was going to congratulate you on a brilliant piece. It was very well written, but a bit warped. Democracy is a funny thing. Sometimes governments have to do unpopular things for the good of the country. They have to have (or should have) a longer focus into the future than us. Whilst this may be an act of raw democracy, I think if all decisions were left to the public vote, the country would very quickly stop working. This referendum has been a victory for self interest on both sides. If you want to call that democracy, then go ahead.

[newjez]

not sovereign by the EU, but very much governed by their rules and regulations, the sovereign is the Queen, but she does not govern.

 

Freedom of movement will be governed by visas same as it is here in Australia and very many other countries

 

Imports may go up - but then maybe they'll buy British

 

People from outside the EU have always had to apply for a visa to visit, live or work in the UK.

 

TBH there are two many unknowns to say what exactly will happen, more so, because it was unexpected.

 

Interestingly with regards to immigration, I think it was Birmingham where more than 50% of the voters were from families who had emmigrated to Britain and Birmingham voted to leave.

 

There's a whole other world outside of the EU, sometimes in Britain we're very blinkered by Europe, which basically means Britain hasn't been looking or been allowed to look beyond the end of its nose (Europe).

 

This site is a testimony to how many immigrants are anti immigration.

[newjez]

So what are these Rules and regulations that we will be getting rid of that are causing the UK so much harm? I never actually hear what will be better... other than the racists going on about immigration.

 

Please tell me what are these horrible Rules the EU has put on us?

Please someone answer this sensibly.

 

Apparently it is all about the shape of a banana. Oh Jonathon Swift - where are you when we need you?

[BritChickx]

You can watch the debate in European Parliament live on BBC website ...for anyone interested

[newjez]

Of course if you want to consider conspiracy theories,

 

possibly all of this is a plot by the German banks. Farage was an investment banker. Maybe he is an agent working for the germans, and he stands to make millions from de stabilizing the UK banking industry. He dupes us into leaving the UK, our banks collapse, the Germans move in and take over our banking industry and leave us as a third world back water? No wonder they are delaying - they are transferring our assets as we speak. We will be left with nothing but debt, and it's all your fault!

[The Raillys]

Apparently it is all about the shape of a banana. Oh Jonathon Swift - where are you when we need you?

So really thats what we are fighting over the shape of a banana? I think people need to become more informed. I have no doubt that most people had no idea what they were voting for, yet everyone seems to be an expert. But when pushed there are no answers.

[newjez]

So really thats what we are fighting over the shape of a banana? I think people need to become more informed. I have no doubt that most people had no idea what they were voting for, yet everyone seems to be an expert. But when pushed there are no answers.

 

 

Here's an answer from the horses mouth

 

[h=3]Merkel: 'Britain cannot cherrypick agreements'[/h]German Chancellor Angela Merkel has told the German Parliament that it is up to Britain to say how it wants to shape its future with Europe, reiterating that negotiations cannot begin until the country invokes Article 50.

She also sounded a cautionary note, saying the UK cannot cherrypick its agreements, and pointing out that while Norway is not an EU member, it has access to the free market because it accepts freedom of movement.

 

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel delivers a government declaration on Brexit at the German Bundestag Parliament in Berlin CREDIT: DPA

 

"A successful Europe is one that keeps to its treaties and agreements," she said, adding that whoever wants access to the free market must respect the EU's basic values.

Ms Merkel also stressed that Britain remains a valuable Nato partner, and that Germany wants to maintain its relations.

 

 

[The Raillys]

Boris is pack peddling and saying he still wants the Free market but to control immigration. Merkel says no! Scotland says they want to be part of the EU.

 

So that didn't answer the question what are the rules in regulations that the EU are inflicting on us that we do not want?

Why exactly are we doing this whole Brexit thing? remember I wanted sensible answers..

Edited June 28, 2016 by The Raillys

[Cal2]

This site is a testimony to how many immigrants are anti immigration.

 

can you name them, or is this just another of your generalisations and who cares what Angela Merkel thinks - she only speaks for Germany ....... for now .......

Edited June 28, 2016 by Cal2

[Johndoe]

Just watched Farage addressing the EP and although I don't like the bloke, I have to say that he spoke a great deal of truth about laws being introduced by the "back door" and by "stealth". Although he was booed on other matters, it is telling that he also received a fair bit of applause with that statement and IMH0, it illustrates that more countries are likely to follow Britain

[Roberta2]

Actually, Merkel is trying to restrain France and Italy. The US Vice President has just arrived to give her a hand. France and Italy are hellbent on being as "nasty" as possible to the UK, not least in order to deter the likes of Marie Le Pen. Recall Admiral Byng, executed on his own quarter deck in 1757 for alleged cowardice. "Pour encourager les autres".

[The Raillys]

I can't believe they even let Farage talk to the EU. It is so embarrassing...

[newjez]

can you name them, or is this just another of your generalisations and who cares what Angela Merkel thinks - she only speaks for Germany ....... for now .......

 

You want me to go through and form a list of posters who have migrated to Australia but are opposed to immigration? Why?

 

and you sort of do care what Angela Merkel thinks. Have you not been paying attention?

[Perthbum]

You want me to go through and form a list of posters who have migrated to Australia but are opposed to immigration? Why?

 

and you sort of do care what Angela Merkel thinks. Have you not been paying attention?

No one is opposed to immigration, what they are opposed to is Uncontroled immigration, big difference

[newjez]

Boris is pack peddling and saying he still wants the Free market but to control immigration. Merkel says no! Scotland says they want to be part of the EU.

 

So that didn't answer the question what are the rules in regulations that the EU are inflicting on us that we do not want?

Why exactly are we doing this whole Brexit thing? remember I wanted sensible answers..

 

I would be interested as to what laws people are opposed to.

 

But I think the inability to deport criminals/terrorists is important - both within and outside the EU.

Some have an issue with emissions controls - wind mills and such being a waste of money.

Fishing restrictions - paying people to grow wildflower meadows.

Butter mountains and the like

Treatment of indebted countries like Greece. Failure to admit that the Euro has been a huge failure.

[Bound4Tassie]

No one is opposed to immigration, what they are opposed to is Uncontroled immigration, big difference

 

Not true. Many people ARE opposed to all immigration! You might not be but there are plenty that are!

[newjez]

No one is opposed to immigration, what they are opposed to is Uncontroled immigration, big difference

 

No - I think alot of people see themselves as expats - and they don't really think they are immigrating when they descend on Perth by the millions changing the whole fabric of the place, but they can't stand the idea of a Pole (whose forefathers fought for us in WW2 and got sod all as a reward), or god forbid a muslim (who also fought for us in the world wars and got sod all in return) moving into their village.

[BacktoDemocracy]

So really thats what we are fighting over the shape of a banana? I think people need to become more informed. I have no doubt that most people had no idea what they were voting for, yet everyone seems to be an expert. But when pushed there are no answers.

 

Well I think it was things like the working hours directive , which limit the hours workable by employees, the human rights act, which sets out clearly the rights of an individual, so when in conflict with his govt and it's laws he has clearly established inalienable human rights, laws governing over fishing to protect food stocks, laws about clean air, laws about clean drinking water, laws about clean beaches and seas, laws about clean power production, laws about the best sizes of electric motors for domestic appliances so as to put a brake on power consumption and therefore pollution, requirements on the amount of pollution free electricity production that a country has to achieve in order to reduce pollution, oh, and what constitutes different grades of fruit and vegetables so that growers and consumers know what constitutes 1st class, 2nd class and so on produce, ie straight or curved bananas, no one is prevented from selling curved bananas it's just it is not considered 1st class fruit, and what about consumer rights, rights to return faulty goods and the standards that goods have to be to.

 

And so the lies spouted by the outers goes on, all of this protective legislation the Tory party can't wait to do away with, this is the red tape that they witter on about holding business back, well if you want to see what it's like talk to a few middle class Americans and find out how much protection they have at work or how they go trying to get their human rights recognised especially if you're black or poor and what consumer rights they have and how medical insurance works for them

 

Welcome to the brave new world of the Conservatives who think there is no such thing as 'community' and unions are the devils work, I have read people on here saying teachers are too left wing because they believe in education rather than running exam factories, the public schools are still "educating" their pupils so as to ensure they can think and see a wider picture they will be the ones who will be in charge and the kids from the exam factories will not have the breadth to ever be anything but a worker bee.

Edited June 28, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

can you name them, or is this just another of your generalisations and who cares what Angela Merkel thinks - she only speaks for Germany ....... for now .......

Yes, but she as leader of Germany for the moment, her party and the other major political parties in Germany want to maintain the EU and it's policies, has anyone thought that the rest of the EU may want to be shut of the Uk , a bit like Henry I I and Thomas Becket, "who will rid me of this turbulent priest"

[newjez]

No one is opposed to immigration, what they are opposed to is Uncontroled immigration, big difference

 

 

Why is controlled migration such a good thing?

[bell123321]

Why is controlled migration such a good thing?

 

Because you know who is coming and going and who is helping the economy. Its better then uncontrolled where you have no idea how many schools, hospitals, houses you need to build. If its controlled you can grow the economy at the right speed to accommodate.

[newjez]

Because you know who is coming and going and who is helping the economy. Its better then uncontrolled where you have no idea how many schools, hospitals, houses you need to build. If its controlled you can grow the economy at the right speed to accommodate.

 

Firstly, you don't know where they are going, so how do you know where to build the schools or hospitals?

 

Secondly, do we really do that? Surely we build schools and hospitals when there is budget to do so?

 

You grow the economy by controlling interest rates.

 

Who grows their economy by controlling immigration?

 

Yes you can choose professions. But what do you do with shortages for unskilled labour?

 

You could specify language skills, but you could do that with the individual jobs anyway.

 

I'm curious because the Tories are champions of free market. Labour is more about artificial control. So why are artificial controls on immigration better than a free market.

 

I agree we could increase efficiency. We could directly recruit from Europe . But I'm sure many do this already.

 

If the UK was in recession, and Europe was in growth, wouldn't it be great if you could travel over there and work and avoid having your family as destitute? This will happen sooner or later.