Gummygirl Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Hello, I've followed this forum with great interest. There seems to be a lot of collective wisdom on here so I'm hoping to gain a few insights on our dilemma as we face a move back to the UK. In our late 40's, with a primary school age child. After almost 20 years of enjoying life in Sydney, we recently decided that the pull of family, friends and shorter flights to Europe and the US made it worth seriously looking at a move back to the UK, where hubby is from. We have no family ties here at all, nor particularly strong friendship ties, which has been a sad realisation, but it isn't going to change anytime soon. So my hubby looked into a transfer with his multinational company, and has received an offer. All good so far--except that the offer is for a level lower than his current level (from managerial to non-managerial) and the base salary is GBP10K or AUD20K less than what he's on now. According to the UK hiring manager, Australia is 'a bit behind in the way they do things', but if hubby shows he fits in with a higher level, then they would consider putting him back up. (Except when you're in your late 40's, you've learned to take words like that with a grain of salt.) Hubby is crushed. He's worked hard to get to his current position after shifting industries, he's won various company awards for good performance, and it suddenly feels like he's getting a demotion. So--what to do? If he accepts, then he wouldn't really be starting in the enthusiastic positive mindset you'd hope to have when starting a new chapter in your life. If he takes it with a view to moving jobs when he gets the chance, we're not sure of how easily one can do that in late 40's, even for contractual work. Family members live in an expensive part of the Southeast, so to be close to them and jobs we'd need to pay a bit more on the mortgage to move over into a similar house, so having a lower income wouldn't help. If he turns it down, we would be financially well off if we just kept going the way we are. We could afford to travel each year, but we wouldn't have family close by, and we really want our child to experience the support of a more extended family network especially coming into the teenage years. Our holidays would also be split trying to see people in different countries. We were hoping that at least by being in the UK, we could spend time with family without needing to take such long holidays to do it, freeing up time to see other places in the world! Also in the long run, we'd want to send our child to uni overseas to be exposed to more of the world, and if she chose to remain overseas...the thought has occurred that I would have no one to visit me in the aged care home here in Sydney... Sorry if this all sounds like a first-world problem, but any helpful perspectives would be greatly appreciated, especially if you've been through a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummygirl Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 PS I should also mention that hubby is missing his older sibling a lot and was really looking forward to the idea of spending more time together. So is equally disheartened at the prospect of not being able to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 The only decision to be made here is up to your husband - can he bear the thought of accepting this demotion? If the answer is yes, then go for it. If you delay this move, then you'll only end up hankering to go back in retirement - and that will be far more difficult than moving now, because of the tax and pension implications. Plus of course, by that time your child will be an Aussie who may not want to return with you - what will you do then? Better to return now, while you still have time to build up an entitlement to a British pension, and before you have to start worrying about your child's education. My impression of companies in the UK is that they are far less "ageist" than Australian companies so it's not nearly as hard for older candidates to get a chance. You will be financially worse off at first, but it sounds like you will save a substantial amount on holidays (no more expensive air fares). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 If you all fancy a change of country i would give it a go. Overall it seems quite a good job offer, no-one can really expect to move across the world and slot right back at the top of the ladder work wise (or even lifestyle wise in most cases). If he is good at his job, then once he 'proves' himself, chances are he will receive a promotion and wage rise, or at least a wage rise. I haven't been back to the UK for 10 years ,but going off what people say on here, you can live cheaper if you pick your area carefully, so the drop in wage may not be too noticeable. If your little one is still primary age, then its a great time to give it a shot. Remember' Australia is going nowhere ,if things don't work out. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 You need to work out what is more important to you as a family; material possessions, professional status or people in your life? If your husband does take the job he will have to come over with a positive mindset and do his absolute best. He couldn't start with an attitude that the company are lucky to have him at such a low level! I used to be very materialistic when I was in my late 20's and early 30's. I had a great job, brand new sports car, show home type house and thought that all of these things showed that I'd been successful in life - I thought that having all these nice things was what mattered and actually confirmed to other people that I'd done well! When I was in my mid 30's I moved to Oz and lost the lot. Due to circumstances I ended up with nothing, had to live in accommodation provided free of charge (which was very basic compared to what I was used to) and had to survive on charity handouts and food parcels. That's when I found out that compassion, care, love, trust, family, friends and a strong and consistent support network was worth far more than any possessions I owned or job status that I'd held. I still had a standard of living thanks to the people around me, not the possessions. Your financial security in Oz is not guaranteed. What if your husband was made redundant? What if the company went bust? What if he got injured in some way and was unable to continue in his line of work? What I'm saying is, don't let your current high standards stop you from moving on just because your next house may not be as big. If I got a £10,000 per year pay cut then I would still have a standard of living, just not as good as what I have now. In the UK we have the Equality Act 2010 and you cannot be overlooked for a job on the grounds of your age. Your husband is not old, and if he works hard and shows he is good at what he does there is no legal reason why the company cannot promote him. My brother is nearly 60 and when he got made redundant last year he was offered another job within a month based on his skills and abilities and he is well respected at his new place (mainly because he doesn't own a smartphone and is not looking at facebook and twitter every ten minutes like the younger people he works with!!) If the move is what you all want and will make everyone happier then I would not be put off due to the net equivalent of around £600 per month if it just meant you might have to live in a smaller house and not a similar house. Being financially well off to me is no longer the be all and end all in life, it just means that when you die you'll probably have more money or a bigger house to leave to someone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patphillips47 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 We moved back to the UK in 2001 ,I was 54 at the time Within a week I had 3 job offers and I hadn't really tried and that's in the North East where there is supposed to be an employment problem After a spell off work looking after my Mum I again got work just chanced to talk to a friend whose firm was looking for casual staff When I said am I not too old she laughed and said No they love people our age no hangovers on a Monday from the weekend ,no young kids who are sick and life's experience On the housing situation come to terms with the houses in the UK are as a general rule of thumb smaller and different I often think it's unfair to compare them with Aussies houses We are finding utilities and food cheaper than Oz plus we don't use nearly as much petrol as everywhere is closer and public transport quicker and easier as normally your not travelling as far as you do in Oz We are going back to live in Adelaide soon yet not at all unhappy or worse off in the UK it's the pull of our Aussie family taking us back so once again we will get used to spending a lot of time in the car lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I thought that having all these nice things was what mattered and actually confirmed to other people that I'd done well! In the UK we have the Equality Act 2010 and you cannot be overlooked for a job on the grounds of your age. Some great points there. Our priorities change with age and having true friends and family around us matter far more than big fancy houses or cars. As regards the Equality Act, you are not obliged to put your age on a CV or give tell an employer your age until after a job offer has been made, although many agencies will try it on by asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Watson Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I would tell your husband to not look at it as a demotion but rather a period of probation until he proves his worth. It sounds to me as if it is just monetary reasons holding you back, which is understandable, but sometimes you just have to let your heart rule your head. None of us are getting any younger and believe me the move becomes more daunting the older you get logistically, physically and mentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patphillips47 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I would tell your husband to not look at it as a demotion but rather a period of probation until he proves his worth. It sounds to me as if it is just monetary reasons holding you back, which is understandable, but sometimes you just have to let your heart rule your head. None of us are getting any younger and believe me the move becomes more daunting the older you get logistically, physically and mentally. I think that's the nail on the head Dianne the journey and move gets more daunting as you get older we returned late 2013 hubby is 72 now I am 68 love the UK but hubby had a fall four months after we got home ,broke a hip and I really felt the strain of nursing him after coming out of hospital Our kids and grandkids are all in Adelaide We went home to Adelaide for Xmas a direct flight no stopover left us bothe wrecked for days and really made us assess our whole situation Thought it all out and decided that Adelaide will be the place we spend our final days Yes we will miss our roots but at the end of the day we need to settle I often think emigrating tears families in two ,does anyone else feel that way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 When many of us move international, we have to take a step back in our careers, but, from my experience, it is a short term set back. The south east is expensive and that is where we are moving to in a week (eek!!!). But, there are options. We have looked at areas that are in the 45 minute drive level of Windsor and many Brits consider this too far, so prices are a lot cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Agree with much that has been said above by others so won't repeat or rehash it. Consider many who migrate to Aus take a step back or sideways when they start off in the country. Some have to retrain, earn less and work or build their way up. Its like that for you in reverse as you've been gone a long time. Your husband has a job offer, an income from the off and not many have that going either way. You could also find a job once back and you'd have your income on top therefore. Yes the south east is pricey but it can be affordable in parts. Don't be extravagant in your location just to be close to family, don't mind if you are an hour or so drive away to begin with. Find an area that is affordable to start you off and work up. You'll still be 23 hours or so closer to them than you were I know it can be hard to get into this mindset as you get older but many do do it and it can work. I find salaries strange things. Try not to compare salaries too much as they are not equal around the world or between the UK and Aus, or even parts of the UK or parts of Aus. See if the salary is a decent one of that part of the UK and if it is, then its good IMHO. If it were a crappy salary for there and they were trying to stiff him then ouch. But if he is earning the average and can work his way up, its not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummygirl Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond. Lots of good food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wa7 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Your situation sounds like ours, except the exchange rate is stuffing us about, but ultimately we will go back. I wouldn't let a pay cut stop me from returning i will earn less in uk but I think the cost of things is lower ( half price cars for a start ) so go for it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Your situation sounds like ours, except the exchange rate is stuffing us about, but ultimately we will go back. I wouldn't let a pay cut stop me from returning i will earn less in uk but I think the cost of things is lower ( half price cars for a start ) so go for it !! Cars are cheaper but otherwise, having recently moved back, we've found our everyday costs are pretty much the same as they were in Sydney - except that eating out, and petrol, are both hugely more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Some great points there. Our priorities change with age and having true friends and family around us matter far more than big fancy houses or cars. As regards the Equality Act, you are not obliged to put your age on a CV or give tell an employer your age until after a job offer has been made, although many agencies will try it on by asking. You are not obliged to put your age but your work experience dates give the game away anyway and although an employer is not allowed to use your age as the reason for refusal there are many other reasons they can and do use to cover up the real reason for refusal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 You are not obliged to put your age but your work experience dates give the game away anyway and although an employer is not allowed to use your age as the reason for refusal there are many other reasons they can and do use to cover up the real reason for refusal . Not necessarily. There is no law to say you must disclose your entire work history. When I got to a certain age, I changed the heading of my Work Experience section to "Relevant Work Experience" and also removed the dates I got my qualifications. I started out as a secretary and none of those secretarial jobs are relevant to the work I do now, which is managerial. So I removed them all, and in the process removed ten years from my work history. If someone wants to assume the first job I listed was my first job out of uni, that's not my problem! In fact it's a good idea not to mention irrelevant jobs anyway, because employers don't like long CV's full of irrelevant details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Not necessarily. There is no law to say you must disclose your entire work history. When I got to a certain age, I changed the heading of my Work Experience section to "Relevant Work Experience" and also removed the dates I got my qualifications. I started out as a secretary and none of those secretarial jobs are relevant to the work I do now, which is managerial. So I removed them all, and in the process removed ten years from my work history. If someone wants to assume the first job I listed was my first job out of uni, that's not my problem! In fact it's a good idea not to mention irrelevant jobs anyway, because employers don't like long CV's full of irrelevant details. This works for many and a very good tip, however if Like me you've only worked in a few jobs for a long time it doesn't work. Before I came to Australia at age 42, I'd worked in 4 different jobs my whole life. One for 20 years and one for 6 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 This works for many and a very good tip, however if Like me you've only worked in a few jobs for a long time it doesn't work. Before I came to Australia at age 42, I'd worked in 4 different jobs my whole life. One for 20 years and one for 6 years That was in the back of my mind when I was typing. If your very first job was the 20-year one, then there's not much you can do. If it was the 6-year one, then I just wouldn't mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 That was in the back of my mind when I was typing. If your very first job was the 20-year one, then there's not much you can do. If it was the 6-year one, then I just wouldn't mention it. As one was for a Trade Union and the other for an Employment Law specialist I try not to mention either, :laugh: it's not exactly a desirable CV for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 ...On the housing situation come to terms with the houses in the UK are as a general rule of thumb smaller and different I often think it's unfair to compare them with Aussies houses We are finding utilities and food cheaper than Oz plus we don't use nearly as much petrol as everywhere is closer and public transport quicker and easier as normally your not travelling as far as you do in Oz We are going back to live in Adelaide soon yet not at all unhappy or worse off in the UK it's the pull of our Aussie family taking us back so once again we will get used to spending a lot of time in the car lol On this note, for some people there is also the option of living in a smaller house in Australia as well to cut down on travel, have better public transport and/or live in a more vibrant location. For some the bigger house may not be worth the sacrifice in time and lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rule Britannia Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Just also tell your husband the CARS he can have when you go back to the UK, BMW's, Audi's Jag's the list goes on, even if you take a pay cut, go and treat yourselves to a Top Quality Car which is totally affordable, I know I should be in sales right.: )) LOL (not forgetting marks n spencers) wright...: )) this means your will be travelling around the UK in style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I wouldn't think filling up a high powered car is that affordable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rule Britannia Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Very true, then you find a car that is affordable but still a high powered Vehicle...BMW series 1 is pretty economical and then you also ensure you buy a Diesel high powered car like the Audi A4 sports...nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 PS I should also mention that hubby is missing his older sibling a lot and was really looking forward to the idea of spending more time together. So is equally disheartened at the prospect of not being able to do so. Yes... I think you need to decide who you are doing this for. Sounds like you are using the kids to justify it, when it's really for your husband's gratification. You need to ask what the kids want, without trying to influence them. You could damage them. That's the risk you take. If you can solve it with OS holidays, I would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Just also tell your husband the CARS he can have when you go back to the UK, BMW's, Audi's Jag's the list goes on, even if you take a pay cut, go and treat yourselves to a Top Quality Car which is totally affordable, I know I should be in sales right.: )) LOL (not forgetting marks n spencers) wright...: )) this means your will be travelling around the UK in style... and to think the Aussies are often criticised for being overly materialistic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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