Quoll Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Why would you expect to drag elderly parents across the world to a foreign country far away from their familiar just because you want to emigrate. I have real problems with expecting the elderly to drop everything they've built over a lifetime just to satisfy the whim of their offspring. Seems cruel to me. But generally if it's a priority for you all then you make financial decisions and pay the fees, health permitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickyplum Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Why would you expect to drag elderly parents across the world to a foreign country far away from their familiar just because you want to emigrate. I have real problems with expecting the elderly to drop everything they've built over a lifetime just to satisfy the whim of their offspring. Seems cruel to me. But generally if it's a priority for you all then you make financial decisions and pay the fees, health permitting. That's a bit harsh for you @Quoll! @Racmac has given no indication of whether they are 'dragging' their Mother or if she actually wants to move willingly. We don't have the details of the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 That's a bit harsh for you @Quoll! @Racmac has given no indication of whether they are 'dragging' their Mother or if she actually wants to move willingly. We don't have the details of the circumstances. True, Mea culpa! It's just that over the years I have had many PMs from both the kids and the olds who have done it! The kids usually with guilt that their olds have become depressed and displaced at being highly dependent and from the olds regretting their loss of dependence and sadness that "their" supportive network isn't there for them. It's that notion of "I can't go if I can't take my mum" regardless of whether mum wants to go or not - mums usually say "yes dear" for a quiet life, it's not necessarily that they are busting a gut to leave. The older I get the more I appreciate the difficulties of moving in older age. Some folk manage OK of course and can make a go of it. I'm of an age though where I would be mighty pissed if my kids started organising my life to suit themselves - I might choose to go or (more likely) I might not - they can do what they want! We have had posters on this and other forums who need their mums to go along for the childcare - WTF?! I appreciate the OP may not want that of course. But with my Aussie taxpayer hat on - I'm not sure that the Aussie taxpayers are over the moon at having a load of elderly hangers on arriving either! Aged services are stretched enough as it is with the home grown mob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Ha ha. I don't know ANYONE who would say 'yes dear' to moving half way across the world if they didn't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30085 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Exactly! Potentially this year, myself and both my siblings will be living in Australia. There's not a cat in hells chance my mother and her partner nor my father and his partner would move here. Visit maybe, but not a chance they would try to move permanently. I think parents trying to move here is because they want to, and I can only imagine most enquiries are due to the 'children' knowing where to ask for help or for advice on parents behalf, not because they are being forced. Edited January 17, 2016 by guest30085 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Luckily most mothers that I know in my age group eg: 70 and older are a lot more feisty thank goodness. There seems to be an assumption that it's always the children insisting on the move, would like to think there would be more discussion involved. Lots who do move here have paid a fair amount for their visas, might not cover a lifetime of paying taxes in this country, but will go a bit towards the cost of burdening Australia with their ongoing needs? Also all that I know who have come here have taken out health insurance. would be interested to know how many parents move the other way, eg Oz to UK, either to be with parents or children, what the the rules are? We only hear it here as one way.Do they, can they just take advantage of living in UK with free health, even though no UK national insurance/tax paid? or have they had to fork out a lump sum? Genuinely have no idea about that. I hope that if or when we might need to move nearer our children we will be involved in the decision and be of sound mind to make our own decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 True, Mea culpa! It's just that over the years I have had many PMs from both the kids and the olds who have done it! The kids usually with guilt that their olds have become depressed and displaced at being highly dependent and from the olds regretting their loss of dependence and sadness that "their" supportive network isn't there for them. It's that notion of "I can't go if I can't take my mum" regardless of whether mum wants to go or not - mums usually say "yes dear" for a quiet life, it's not necessarily that they are busting a gut to leave. The older I get the more I appreciate the difficulties of moving in older age. Some folk manage OK of course and can make a go of it. I'm of an age though where I would be mighty pissed if my kids started organising my life to suit themselves - I might choose to go or (more likely) I might not - they can do what they want! We have had posters on this and other forums who need their mums to go along for the childcare - WTF?! I appreciate the OP may not want that of course. But with my Aussie taxpayer hat on - I'm not sure that the Aussie taxpayers are over the moon at having a load of elderly hangers on arriving either! Aged services are stretched enough as it is with the home grown mob. I have to agree. I one of those naturally chatty people who likes to make small talk in the supermarket. The combination of me being unemployed, living an area popular with both retirees and Brits and someone that bakes a lot, has meant I have spoken to a lot of parents who have moved here for their children. Pretty much all have regretted it and are unhappy, but now feel trapped after spending so much time and money getting here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I have to agree. I one of those naturally chatty people who likes to make small talk in the supermarket. The combination of me being unemployed, living an area popular with both retirees and Brits and someone that bakes a lot, has meant I have spoken to a lot of parents who have moved here for their children. Pretty much all have regretted it and are unhappy, but now feel trapped after spending so much time and money getting here I've seen this, I don't know if it's common but one particular Yorkshire lady springs to mind. In her 80's. She lives in a 'retirement village' set up, only son lives nearby. She came to live near him. She is quite social and enjoys outings and things but hankers after her Yorkshire village 'it's not like home' she says, this lot keep themselves to themselves...she misses her dear friends who have been to visit. I ask if she'd go back...Oh no she says..I think half the time they just like to have a moan. Nothing and nowhere is perfect, when they're thousands of miles away they don't like that either. The perils of migration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Ha ha. I don't know ANYONE who would say 'yes dear' to moving half way across the world if they didn't want to. Exactly! Potentially this year, myself and both my siblings will be living in Australia. There's not a cat in hells chance my mother and her partner nor my father and his partner would move here. Visit maybe, but not a chance they would try to move permanently. I think parents trying to move here is because they want to, and I can only imagine most enquiries are due to the 'children' knowing where to ask for help or for advice on parents behalf, not because they are being forced. When we were planning our move we asked my Mum if she wanted to come, said we'd do what we could to get her over here if that was what she wanted. (I'm an only child). She thought long and hard (did a lot of denial and indifference to our leaving also) Then she said 'No thanks', via a long thoughtfully expressed letter I packed in my luggage and read the day we landed. She wished us all the best, was happy we had taken the opportunity, a little envious she said, but on balance, her life was there, she liked her little house, liked her peace, her privacy. She comes out most years to visit though and never once lets me forget the promise of a guilty daughter (we will pay for your ticket every year!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 It is indeed not always with the interest of the aged parent in mind, although none will admit to it obviously. As for cost I'd say $50,000 is very cheap all considered. I'd consider it not unfair to insist on private medical insurance as well. I must insure myself if move overseas to most designations. I have had personal experience of an aged parent being brought out to Australia, it was to ensure the other person (partner of the daughter of the aged parent) would be more likely to remain in Australia, with her mother present, than returning home after suffering 'the wobbles'. The aged parent was well set up in an English seaside town. Her friends nearby, her life in effect. She was a feisty old lady, but within three years she'd been placed in an aged care facility, so failed completely to see the purpose beyond self interest of bringing her out to Australia. This was some decades ago when family reunions dominated the migration process. Actually I would suggest a few years of 'wintering' in Australia to see how it comes together for anyone finding themselves in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 I would like to think that most parents would tell their kids to take a running jump if they didn't fancy moving half way round the world to a foreign country (I would!) but I fear a good deal of emotional blackmail comes into play "the grandkids will miss you", "you will miss the grandkids growing up" especially (my daughter in law tried that one on me for a little while). I'm not saying that grandparenting via Skype is easy - it isn't, it's bloody difficult and if you are enmeshed with your grandkids it must be a nightmare. I think a lot of people, perhaps who haven't been to Aus, have no idea what it will be like and think it might be like a couple of weeks in Torremolinos and they enjoyed that, didn't they? My own parents chose not to come - after 15 years of coming for 6 months a year. Had they still had the capacity to have continued their visits I think they would have liked it but when push came to shove they decided that their lives would be better if they stayed in UK - and they were right, for them. Never once did we do the emotional blackmail bit - we committed to ensuring that they had good access to the grandkids and it was our responsibility to take the kids to them but they wanted one long summer of golf so took matters into their own hands. My own parents are in their 90s now and they, and their friends, are more and more about living in their own place and space - the familiar, their home, their friends, their view etc which is why even a move down the road into something smaller can be a real downer for them. Moving to a foreign country on the other side of the world might just as well be Mars to them - and as alien. I'm all about choice though so if someone really wants to chase their kids across the world there is no barrier to them moving to Aus if that is what they want and they are lucky that CPVs are available given all the other balance of family and health issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbpom Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Flag, it can work both ways, my parents wanted a guarantee that we would stay in OZ for 5 years before they would migrate and it was their idea having spent the previous 10 years working overseas themselves. They have since returned to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I have to agree. I one of those naturally chatty people who likes to make small talk in the supermarket. The combination of me being unemployed, living an area popular with both retirees and Brits and someone that bakes a lot, has meant I have spoken to a lot of parents who have moved here for their children. Pretty much all have regretted it and are unhappy, but now feel trapped after spending so much time and money getting here I've had exactly the same experience - I've only met a handful but in every case, they missed their life in the UK. The grandma felt that the ongoing sacrifice was worth it just to be near the grandkids, whereas the grandad wasn't so sure! Being in Sydney, the ones I met were also very worried about finances, having spent so much of their retirement nest egg on the visa and then struggling to afford a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Well looks as though I'm about the only poster who knows personally quite a few parents who have moved here and who aren't unhappy, have embraced life here, and aren't broke, but then I am older than many who have posted and most of my friends and aquantances are in my age group, so it's interesting that I appear in the minority, but I genuinely don't know anyone in the 13 years that I have lived here in retirement who came to be with family that regrets it. It is a big move/upheaval to up sticks later in life, you have to be prepared to work at it, but if you can make a life for yourself and not be too dependant on your family, then you can hopefully have a good life here, with the bonus of being near your family. I speak from experience moving here with my husband to a brand new country, when he retired with in our case no family here in Australia at that time, as have so many others that we know, and we have no regrets at all, we have all made the effort to join things, and made great friends. I do think that parents who have lived nearly all of their lives in one place will probably struggle more moving here than others who have had the experience of moving and having to get used to new places. Edited January 17, 2016 by ramot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Well looks as though I'm about the only poster who knows personally quite a few parents who have moved here and who aren't unhappy, have embraced life here, and aren't broke I think it also makes a difference where you are. I'm in Sydney so I'm meeting people who have moved to the most expensive city in Australia, and the main reason for their regrets is that they've had to make big compromises in their standard of home and lifestyle in order to afford the move. I think the bottom line is that you have to do your homework - it should've been possible to work out, beforehand, that they were jeopardising their comfort in retirement by making the move, but obviously they didn't. Edited January 17, 2016 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I have split this thread to keep migration (visa) advice seperate to the morals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Marisawright what does this mean? Keeping migration advice separate tithe morals??? Huh??? The practicalities of getting older parents to Australia, separate from whether or not you should put pressure on them to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I find the whole concept of 'moving parents out to Australia' patronising in the extreme. I understand and accept that there probably are people who move out and are less than certain about the move, and that there must certainly be people who regret the move and wish they had said stayed put. On the other hand I bitterly resent the whole tone of discussions which dismiss older people as " elderly hangers on" etc. Many of today's older parents are themselves seasoned travellers. Many have settled in more than one new area / country during their working lives, and understand the difficulties of making new friends etc. only too well. It's a sad fact of life that in our later years we are all constantly adapting and re adapting to our lives, even if we have remained in one place for decades - people die, gets sick and move away. As Ramot observed, many of today's oldies are a feisty lot, who do what they want to do, regardless of what their offspring may or may not want. I think it's less than realistic for anyone to plan their migration while looking over their shoulders to see if mum is able to follow, but I think most people wake up to the harsh realities of life soon enough. A request for information about parents migrating always seems to elicit mostly negative comments about happiness and coercion these days. Thank you, Ramot for putting the other side of the story. Lastly, even in the Sydney area it is possible to find more reasonably priced property if you look a couple of hours away - places like Kiama, Bowral and Berry spring to mind, to name the few I am aware of. Edited January 17, 2016 by Fisher1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 thanks Caramac. Got you. But it's an ambiguous phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Lastly, even in the Sydney area it is possible to find more reasonably priced property if you look a couple of hours away - places like Kiama, Bowral and Berry spring to mind, to name the few I am aware of. That's true, and at least one of the couples I'm speaking of have moved a couple of hours away - but that in itself is a compromise, since they had the dream of being close to grandkids, and two or three hours' drive isn't what they had in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucharmily Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 My parents followed us to Oz after we'd been there 8 years. When they came, my sister had also just migrated which meant both their children were now here. I also had a 1 year old who was their only grandchild. Both my sister and I were not keen for them to move over. We begged them to rent out their house rather than sell and come for a few extended visits so they could try and experience living rather than holidaying in Australia. But they were stubborn!! Came over and only lasted 15 months. We had a lovely time and really fond memories together (which are even more poignant now that my Mum is no longer with us) But they couldn't settle. Missed their UK life too much. While it was lovely being near the family, that cannot be the only reason for coming to Oz as they found out. You have to make your own life too otherwise it's going to be very tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racmac Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Lol believe me my mother would not be moving anywhere if she wasn't 100% sure! It was actually her that asked if she would be able to come permanently if she liked it. My mother is extremely independent and has travelled the world on her own many times, she is not a frail old dear that would be bullied by anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth7862 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 My son is an Australian citizen and has lived in Australia for 7 years. He hasn't suggested we consider emigrating but we plan to when we retire in about a decade spending chunks of time in Australia and the U.K. while we are hopefully fit enough to travel (our daughter has no desire to leave the UK). We see it as our last great adventure and it might not work out but we would like to try. We make no assumptions and might not even end up living very near our son. Children have their own lives to live as we do but seeing more of him would be a lovely bonus. I guess what I am trying to do is dispel the stereotypes and put an alternative view. We are a close but healthily independent family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 That's true, and at least one of the couples I'm speaking of have moved a couple of hours away - but that in itself is a compromise, since they had the dream of being close to grandkids, and two or three hours' drive isn't what they had in mind. Living a couple of hours away from Sydney cbd may have been a compromise for the couple you knew but that doesn't mean it is a compromise for everyone. Living two and a half hours away by train is a huge improvement on twenty four hours on a plane, costs less and could be the perfect choice for many people who want to be close to their children but not actually sitting on their laps. It is the ability to think outside the box that gets many people happily settled in wherever they want to be - and anyway, compromise is not necessarily a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 My son is an Australian citizen and has lived in Australia for 7 years. He hasn't suggested we consider emigrating but we plan to when we retire in about a decade spending chunks of time in Australia and the U.K. while we are hopefully fit enough to travel (our daughter has no desire to leave the UK). We see it as our last great adventure and it might not work out but we would like to try. We make no assumptions and might not even end up living very near our son. Children have their own lives to live as we do but seeing more of him would be a lovely bonus. I guess what I am trying to do is dispel the stereotypes and put an alternative view. We are a close but healthily independent family. That sound's great if you can do it, but you'll need deep pockets, it seems a shame to spend $50000 on a visa and then not stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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