Guest51810 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hmm you could be right. Politics eh! Did you say you wanted to visit scotland? You should come up and we'll go to a trident demo lol :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm not stupid enough to think any politician is perfect.. Definitely but who's more likely to actually care about Scotland - someone in Westminster who maybe goes to Scotland once a year if he's lucky or someone or someone who grew up here. Wasn't that the argument against labour working with SNP.. The why would SNP care about middle england. Well I'm sure our one tory mp in the borders really cares about the working class areas So when the SNP virtually overtake the scottish parliament, you know when everyone becomes so impressed with their performance in Westminster, what happens then? What happens when their policies don't suit everyone? They will never be able to please everyone, they may appeal to the country on a national (UK) level but what happens when they have to make tough decisions? Do they just blame that on Westminster? So all the previous MP's before this group of SNP's never visited Scotland? Were they not Scottish? Do you know the MP in the borders area? Do you know what they stand for? I would like to know where the SNP think the money will come from to carry out all their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I have never been to a demo of any sort and after the failure of the Iraq war protest in London many years ago now despite the mass support it makes you wonder if there is any point to them. 9 weeks today and I will be off and with work and other stuff to do between now and then there is no great prospect of my getting to visit Scotland unfortunately. Might regret that one day but New Zealand and Tasmania are in my sights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le petit roi Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Applies to all SNP supporters in a way. Freedom to snipe at everything as they never had to have their policies scrutinised fully as they were never going to be the party of government at Westminster. To be fair though they have been doing a creditable job in Scotland. There are major limitations on them there which is not their fault. Their limitations - are you inferring to their competency or that they cannot be the Govt of the UK? If its the former, they skillfully operated a minority Scottish Govt for the full term despite the naysayers and doomongers predicting that the sky would fall in on Scotland. They followed this up in the next election by attaining a majority of seats because they received more than 50% of the votes when many political commentators didn't think it was possible. Seems like a pretty good track record thus far; the SNP have had to work hard and stick at it over the last 10-15 years. Edited May 12, 2015 by le petit roi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Their limitations - are you inferring to their competency or that they cannot be the Govt of the UK? Neither. I was referring to the limitations of the powers vested in the Scottish Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I must have misread your post.I thought you said you would put money on it. Obviously not. I could put money on it. Queen's English. You immigrants wouldn't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am grateful to the SNP for at least putting Trident on the agenda. It seems all the other parties (Greens excepted) just regard retention and renewal as a complete given and not even up for discussion. Mention scrapping nuclear submarines here and you are considered an imbecile. I suppose once something has existed for generations it just becomes embedded in the national psyche. I cannot believe people really think that the UKs nuclear missiles make any difference at all - after all we are never going to fire them surely. Funny, but being Australian, the idea of nuclear weapons doesn't make me feel secure. Maybe it's because I grew up without them. Not that comfortable around fireworks either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Funny, but being Australian, the idea of nuclear weapons doesn't make me feel secure. Maybe it's because I grew up without them. Not that comfortable around fireworks either. That's why I asked parley ages ago because I wasn't sure what the nuclear situation was in australia. So many other countries manage without. They don't make me feel secure either, opposite actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So when the SNP virtually overtake the scottish parliament, you know when everyone becomes so impressed with their performance in Westminster, what happens then? What happens when their policies don't suit everyone? They will never be able to please everyone, they may appeal to the country on a national (UK) level but what happens when they have to make tough decisions? Do they just blame that on Westminster? So all the previous MP's before this group of SNP's never visited Scotland? Were they not Scottish?Do you know the MP in the borders area? Do you know what they stand for? I would like to know where the SNP think the money will come from to carry out all their work. What's your problem with the SNP?? Do you live in Scotland?? Democracy? They won fair and square because people wanted them...just like the Tories...suck it up. It's OK to criticise when it doesn't fit in with your ideals though..is that it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The SNP's tactics in this election were clever - they knew they were going to win most Scottish seats but they correctly feel their independence aims are better assisted by a Conservative government. This is why Nicola Sturgeon was constantly quoted as saying the SNP would keep Labour honest in a coalition, and so on - knowing this would alienate many Labour voters in England and ruin Ed Miliband's chances. Now with five more years (at least) of Conservative austerity to 'look forward' to, the SNP leadership takes the view that more Scottish voters will be begging for independence at the end of it. Their only task now is to try and arrange another referendum, which should be easier to manage now David Cameron is hamstrung into addressing 'the Scottish question', aka the West Lothian issue: the paradox of Scottish MPs voting on UK-wide legislation which does not affect them or their constituents north of the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 So when the SNP virtually overtake the scottish parliament, you know when everyone becomes so impressed with their performance in Westminster, what happens then? What happens when their policies don't suit everyone? They will never be able to please everyone, they may appeal to the country on a national (UK) level but what happens when they have to make tough decisions? Do they just blame that on Westminster? So all the previous MP's before this group of SNP's never visited Scotland? Were they not Scottish?Do you know the MP in the borders area? Do you know what they stand for? I would like to know where the SNP think the money will come from to carry out all their work. It's a vote of Nationalistic pride without any thoughts of what it might mean I think wakeboard. The Scots are a very proud nation, feel a bit downtrodden and still get the history from generations back when the Scots were fighting the English. We all know that times have changed and we should just put all that behind us and do what's best for the UK but you know how things are. It was all to do with religion anyway at the time. I'm sure if they gave the opportunity to the Welsh and the Irish they would go down the same road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It's a vote of Nationalistic pride without any thoughts of what it might mean I think wakeboard. The Scots are a very proud nation, feel a bit downtrodden and still get the history from generations back when the Scots were fighting the English. We all know that times have changed and we should just put all that behind us and do what's best for the UK but you know how things are. It was all to do with religion anyway at the time. I'm sure if they gave the opportunity to the Welsh and the Irish they would go down the same road. It is about much more than pride. It's about people being tired of being ignored and lied to and wanting to make their own decisions for themselves and their country. The Union's inception had nothing to do with religion. It came about through dirty tricks and bribery. The Scots people did not have a say. The Three Estates agreed to it because of their greed. The people rioted when the decision was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It is about much more than pride. It's about people being tired of being ignored and lied to and wanting to make their own decisions for themselves and their country. The Union's inception had nothing to do with religion. It came about through dirty tricks and bribery. The Scots people did not have a say. The Three Estates agreed to it because of their greed. The people rioted when the decision was made. See what I mean Ellie, you obviously remember or have heard what happened and still hold a grudge. People all over the country are sick of being ignored and lied to, doesn't just happen to the Scots. Most wouldn't know who the Three Estates are, including me. People have to let the past go sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It is about much more than pride. It's about people being tired of being ignored and lied to and wanting to make their own decisions for themselves and their country. The Union's inception had nothing to do with religion. It came about through dirty tricks and bribery. The Scots people did not have a say. The Three Estates agreed to it because of their greed. The people rioted when the decision was made. I'll have to research the history, but as far as I recall, Elizabeth, the last of the Tudors, died childless, so England invited James VI of Scotland (who probably had is claim to the English throne via Henry VIII's sister marrying a Scots king - Mary Queen of Scots' father perhaps?) to move south as James I of England. I don't know whether the Act of Union was widely unpopular in Scotland, nor whether Scottish nobles were all corrupt? Didn't they all vote on the Act of Union, perhaps a forerunner of the referendum last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Union of the crowns 1603, Act of Union of the Parliaments 1707. This was only agreed to by the 3 Estates, which was the Scots parliament at the time, as I have already said. These Estates were the nobles,the church clergy and wealthy merchants. There was not universal suffrage in Scotland in 1707. The parliament consisted only of these people who had been elected by their peers. The clergy were the most corrupt closely followed by the others. I know my Scots history pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) See what I mean Ellie, you obviously remember or have heard what happened and still hold a grudge. People all over the country are sick of being ignored and lied to, doesn't just happen to the Scots. Most wouldn't know who the Three Estates are, including me. People have to let the past go sometimes. I don't know where you get the belief that myself or the Scots in general hold a grudge. We don't! We simply have had enough of being governed from Westminster. If you read my posts as well as others and if you have heard Nicola Sturgeon speak the people of England have been mentioned. However, the Scots can't change your situation.the English people have to get off their behinds and do something about it. Edited May 13, 2015 by Ellie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't know where you get the belief that myself or the Scots in general hold a grudge. We don't! We simply have had enough of being governed from Westminster. If you read my posts as well as others and if you have heard Nicola Sturgeon speak the people of England have been mentioned. However, the Scots can't change your situation.the English people have to get of their behinds and do something about it. From your previous post you are talking about stuff that happened in 1603 and 1707 and you say you don't hold a grudge? It's time to let these things go and think what's best for the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) From your previous post you are talking about stuff that happened in 1603 and 1707 and you say you don't hold a grudge? It's time to let these things go and think what's best for the UK. Sorry Paul, but there is no way that I will let my history go. I'm sure you wouldn't let yours go. I want the best for Scotland. If you cannot accept that without malice so be it. I don't feel any animosity towards you. I simple agree to differ. My previous post was explaining the history to MaryRose. I should have quoted. Edited May 13, 2015 by Ellie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I find it odd that there are people so fervently in favour of breaking up the union yet choose to live in, say, Australia. Or are they waiting for the Scots in situ to vote for Independence before returning to the motherland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't agree with you paul. I hold no grudge about the English and im seriously the least nationalistic person you could find. Infact it's probably shocking how little I know about my history. I don't have any scottish flags and I don't walk around with SNP badges glued to me singing flower of scotland :laugh: For me it's simply just that I think the SNP is the best party for my interests and I want Scotland to have more powers to make decisions for the people who live here. That's it. I actually find it quite insulting when people outside scotland just assume that we are a bunch of nationalistic loonies who are running around screaming freedom. Some of the journalists are starting to understand what's happening up here like Jon snow etc. The longer people just lazily say we hate the English and it's all about Braveheart the worse things are going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I find it odd that there are people so fervently in favour of breaking up the union yet choose to live in, say, Australia. Or are they waiting for the Scots in situ to vote for Independence before returning to the motherland. You could say that it's odd that people so excited about a tory government don't feel the need to come over and live under one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The longer people just lazily say we hate the English and it's all about Braveheart the worse things are going to get. The people who say that are mainly mindless bigots or lazy people who spend too long listening to mindless bigots. I suspect these types exist both sides of the border and they really just need someone to hate really and the object of that hatred can shift with the tides of politics. It is always easier to argue against something that is in place (such as the Union) than it is arguing to keep it. Independence is a dream yet to be fulfilled therefore it is beguiling and holds so much promise. Nobody can fully prophesy the reality. I suppose people need to continue to weigh up whether change is more likely than not to provide them with a better life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 You could say that it's odd that people so excited about a tory government don't feel the need to come over and live under one. We have got one here, two in fact, if you live in New South Wales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 We have got one here, two in fact, if you live in New South Wales! You must love that then eh Dave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 What's your problem with the SNP?? Do you live in Scotland?? Democracy? They won fair and square because people wanted them...just like the Tories...suck it up. It's OK to criticise when it doesn't fit in with your ideals though..is that it? You came up with that response to my post? What's the relevance of your response to my post? The first 2 question I assume you think are relevant to my post??? I'll answer them for you. I don't have a problem with the SNP, I'm genuinely interested in answers to the questions I raised in my post you quoted, I don't have 'problems' with any one party. And no I don't live in Scotland, and I certainly wouldn't want to if and when the wonderful SNP rule by a huge majority and there is no choice left. Remember these couple of posts in a decade or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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