‘I can’t survive on £500 a week benefits!’

[stevie ellis]

am living on less

[AJ]

. I don't think there's enough incentive, certainly not for young people...apprenticeships are few and far between...that's another issue anyway...I can see why some sit on their arse...

 

Why should there be incentives to work. What happened to having a bit of pride in being able to say I worked hard for what I have instead of having being encouraged to actually go out to work!

[pablo]

Why should there be incentives to work. What happened to having a bit of pride in being able to say I worked hard for work I have instead of having being encouraged to actually go out to work!

 

People shouldn't need incentives to work,but there will always be those that do,its just a fact of life isnt it.Us getting outraged and indignant wont make them go away,they're a small,% tho imo,best to focus on the decent majority,will do your heart better too

[Que Sera Sera]

8 frigging kids at 31!!!!! I'd want paying a lot more than that , I'd be in a straight jacket !:wink::laugh:

[fifi69]

Couldn't face reading this thread before now...cos I knew I would get angry.

 

well I did and I have.

 

sometimes as a worker, I wake up feeling not that great...but best head in cos a lot of lazy sods are relying on my tax to feed and clothe them.

 

is it a joke or what..

[gpo1971]

The youngest baby looks about 65 so he'll be due his pension soon anyway, that should help.

[jodipodi]

Why should there be incentives to work. What happened to having a bit of pride in being able to say I worked hard for what I have instead of having being encouraged to actually go out to work!

That's great, that's what we want don't we...I'm sure everyone who works does feel they work hard and have a sense of pride...I'm not saying 'why should people work with no financial incentive' just that when you are better off financially not working then it seems to be backwards and thats not right. I know it's not just about the money, that's why I mentioned apprenticeships. I really believe things like that should be abundant, providing you with an opportunity to do a job you want to do, earn your stripes and a bit self esteem too... there are some who really want to get into work doing something they enjoy, without experience you often need an apprenticeship- which I think should be available to all ages- which are few and far between now. But also, some are worse off working....who, in their right mind would WISH to be worse off, especially those with children....pride doesnt always pay the rent, gas, food......I do see your point but when you have mouths to feed pride alone doesn't keep you afloat.

[Quinkla]

People work and expect a reward. In some cases, the reward is in terms of a feel good factor (like me helping out at the blue light disco on Friday night) and sometimes it is in terms of money. But there needs to be a reward.

 

The reward needs to be enough to persuade people to give up leisure time. For example, I work 40 hours a week in a salaried job. I could work extra hours by working in a bar or restaurant in the evening. But I don't because I value the leisure time more than I'd value the extra income. But on the other hand, if someone offered me $200 an evening to do a stand-up gig at a club, I would. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.

[jodipodi]

People work and expect a reward. In some cases, the reward is in terms of a feel good factor (like me helping out at the blue light disco on Friday night) and sometimes it is in terms of money. But there needs to be a reward.

 

The reward needs to be enough to persuade people to give up leisure time. For example, I work 40 hours a week in a salaried job. I could work extra hours by working in a bar or restaurant in the evening. But I don't because I value the leisure time more than I'd value the extra income. But on the other hand, if someone offered me $200 an evening to do a stand-up gig at a club, I would. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.

You hit the nail right on the head there Quinkla, I don't think I did quite a good job of it as you did right there :smile:

[jodipodi]

Sometimes its about children too, we don't all feel comfortable leaving our kids with crèches childminders etc but for a lot of people who get help towards childcare it is only payable if using a registered minder...what if you don't want your kids watched by strangers...I certainly struggle with the idea, there's so many bad eggs out there...I'd love be able to pay my mother, brother etc but wages wouldn't cover it and childcare allowance wouldn't be applicable. Anyway I'm getting too deep here, but just trying to say it's a grey area...not black and white.

[Toolbox]

The old sayings are always best 'If you can't feed them don't breed them' simple really, but I know just like everyone else does that this will continue to happen as long as kids are seen as a meal ticket.......what do we do? short of sterilization there's nothing we can do, as children will always have to be cared for whatever new rules governments introduce.

[whichway1]

Sometimes its about children too, we don't all feel comfortable leaving our kids with crèches childminders etc but for a lot of people who get help towards childcare it is only payable if using a registered minder...what if you don't want your kids watched by strangers...I certainly struggle with the idea, there's so many bad eggs out there...I'd love be able to pay my mother, brother etc but wages wouldn't cover it and childcare allowance wouldn't be applicable. Anyway I'm getting too deep here, but just trying to say it's a grey area...not black and white.

 

I don't feel comfortable leaving my children in paid minders or nurseries etc. So I work one day a week when my husband or my parents can look after them. I'm lucky that I can do that. A friend of mine had a baby at 19 the father is absent to Say the least. She would have gotten housing help and some financial help, but she has always worked, and worked hard. I absolutely take my hat off to her. I agree with what you're saying but there are def different types of people out there. My friend never even took any money from the father and good on her as she didn't want to be beholden to him. Anyway blah...

[paulv]

The old sayings are always best 'If you can't feed them don't breed them' simple really, but I know just like everyone else does that this will continue to happen as long as kids are seen as a meal ticket.......what do we do? short of sterilization there's nothing we can do, as children will always have to be cared for whatever new rules governments introduce.

 

My experience Toolbox, and that of a few others on here is that people want kids so that they can feel the unconditional love they have very often not experienced themselves.

Im not saying this is everyone, but I'm sure they outnumber the ones who mistakenly believe they will get a home quicker.

A classic case are those women who have had such terrible experiences in childhood that they cannot parent effectively but have baby after baby that are then taken at birth and put in care or up for adoption.

[Tappers2oz]

A 'acquaintance' of mine has a 1 yr old and is preg again. Hubby recently lost his job so has another job that is less wage and I think they were struggling before.

Then she writes "the one thing a baby needs is love". I mean, I nearly went totally mental at her! Seriously!!?? Love does not put food in the kids mouths or a roof over their heads!

[Johndoe]

Paulv has hit a nail squarely on the head.

 

We all ("normal people" FWOABW) know that children shouldn't be conceived if they can't adequately be cared for by the parents, but many early/multiple births derive from those who weren't cared for adequatly or were abused in their own childhood. In many, there is an overwhelming desire to nurture and love one's own offspring...............to give their love freely to their child in order to compensate for the love that they couldn't give to their dysfunctional parents, or the love that they felt they were deserving of themselves, but yet not received.......................It is a subconscious thing, and most wouldn't even recognise it within themselves. In many cases, the children don't bring them the love that they crave or they don't cope with the nurturing of the child that is required of them. and so the cycle of abuse continues.

 

My foster daughter had two kids before the age of 21...................she's a loving caring mother......................exemplary in fact......................other than for...................she is a "welfare mother". Her relationship with the father broke down and her only recourse is to welfare. Now both I and she, recognnise, that she shouldn't have had those kids so young, but in her words, "I needed to show everyone that I am not like my (birth) mother and can be a good parent". She didn't recognise this fact at the time that she decided she wanted children. She just thought that it was "normal" to want to have a baby to love, and that there was no ulterior motive for her wanting to have children. She also now recognises the "reciprocity factor"...........she needed that return of love (from the children)..............our love simply wasn't enough. It was only when I showed her the messages that she put on FB, that she realised this............the messages were always about how much she loved her kids.......how unconditional their love was etc..............she was sort of?................well, "shouting it from the rooftops"....................a mother safe in her own love and the love of her kids, doesn't need to do this..............IOW, she still didn't feel safe, (about her worth), years down the track from her abuse

 

She now has a "handle on things" though, (I hope), and is going to tafe in the new year to train. Whether she will hack it with two young kids remains to be seen, but at least she is trying and the gov't is trying also in offering her assistance.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that there are many factors involved/at work with the "welfare generation" and most of the general public would not be aware of these factors. The media prefers to tarnish all welfare recipients, rather that print family history as to why someone is a welfare recipient..............to illustrate the hole that society/dysfunctional family has dug for these recipients, that gets harder to climb out of as each generation produces another generation of recipient.............it's simply family abuse perpetuated..............not the overt abuse such as physical or sexual, (though that may take place), but neglect/abuse non the less. The individual from such a background is "stifled by circumstance" and not allowed to grow as an individual. Some manage to climb out of that hole, but they are the strong..............we have to recognise that most are weak...............and not through a fault of their own.................they have been "bred that way"...................nurtured by dysfunction/state benefit, as opposed to nurtured by family love/work ethic.

 

It is galling and frustrating for the working taxpayer, but it is susccessive governmemts and the social welfare system that the anger should be directed at, and not, the recipeinst of welfare no matter how obnoxious the person/family.............they are a product of their environment/family/state.....................and, I'm not a religious person, but I believe that we are all born innocent, and are shaped by what befalls us...............the "scroungers" in the main, are not "evil" but 'dysfunctional'..........a creation of their family environment and somehow, state/society/schooling needs to find a way to step in (early intervention) and educate these kids to escape the welfare mentality of their parents. Give someone a sense of self worth/value and many will rise above the dysfunctional family.....................not all.....................some are too far gone..............but if you reach only a small percentage of this generation, then the percentage of the next generation, and the generation after that, will be higher.

[jodipodi]

Paulv has hit a nail squarely on the head.

 

We all ("normal people" FWOABW) know that children shouldn't be conceived if they can't adequately be cared for by the parents, but many early/multiple births derive from those who weren't cared for adequatly or were abused in their own childhood. In many, there is an overwhelming desire to nurture and love one's own offspring...............to give their love freely to their child in order to compensate for the love that they couldn't give to their dysfunctional parents, or the love that they felt they were deserving of themselves, but yet not received.......................It is a subconscious thing, and most wouldn't even recognise it within themselves. In many cases, the children don't bring them the love that they crave or they don't cope with the nurturing of the child that is required of them. and so the cycle of abuse continues.

 

My foster daughter had two kids before the age of 21...................she's a loving caring mother......................exemplary in fact......................other than for...................she is a "welfare mother". Her relationship with the father broke down and her only recourse is to welfare. Now both I and she, recognnise, that she shouldn't have had those kids so young, but in her words, "I needed to show everyone that I am not like my (birth) mother and can be a good parent". She didn't recognise this fact at the time that she decided she wanted children. She just thought that it was "normal" to want to have a baby to love, and that there was no ulterior motive for her wanting to have children. She also now recognises the "reciprocity factor"...........she needed that return of love (from the children)..............our love simply wasn't enough. It was only when I showed her the messages that she put on FB, that she realised this............the messages were always about how much she loved her kids.......how unconditional their love was etc..............she was sort of?................well, "shouting it from the rooftops"....................a mother safe in her own love and the love of her kids, doesn't need to do this..............IOW, she still didn't feel safe, (about her worth), years down the track from her abuse

 

She now has a "handle on things" though, (I hope), and is going to tafe in the new year to train. Whether she will hack it with two young kids remains to be seen, but at least she is trying and the gov't is trying also in offering her assistance.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that there are many factors involved/at work with the "welfare generation" and most of the general public would not be aware of these factors. The media prefers to tarnish all welfare recipients, rather that print family history as to why someone is a welfare recipient..............to illustrate the hole that society/dysfunctional family has dug for these recipients, that gets harder to climb out of as each generation produces another generation of recipient.............it's simply family abuse perpetuated..............not the overt abuse such as physical or sexual, (though that may take place), but neglect/abuse non the less. The individual from such a background is "stifled by circumstance" and not allowed to grow as an individual. Some manage to climb out of that hole, but they are the strong..............we have to recognise that most are weak...............and not through a fault of their own.................they have been "bred that way"...................nurtured by dysfunction/state benefit, as opposed to nurtured by family love/work ethic.

 

It is galling and frustrating for the working taxpayer, but it is susccessive governmemts and the social welfare system that the anger should be directed at, and not, the recipeinst of welfare no matter how obnoxious the person/family.............they are a product of their environment/family/state.....................and, I'm not a religious person, but I believe that we are all born innocent, and are shaped by what befalls us...............the "scroungers" in the main, are not "evil" but 'dysfunctional'..........a creation of their family environment and somehow, state/society/schooling needs to find a way to step in (early intervention) and educate these kids to escape the welfare mentality of their parents. Give someone a sense of self worth/value and many will rise above the dysfunctional family.....................not all.....................some are too far gone..............but if you reach only a small percentage of this generation, then the percentage of the next generation, and the generation after that, will be higher.

And you, Johndoe, are extremely perceptive and in tune with the real world....and I'm sure that young lady feels safe and secure having a foster parent like yourself. I like it when people see the deeper picture, admittedly not all fit that trend, but yes, a lot do, and I say bravo to you for being what sounds like a bloody good person and doing a bloody good job... and I can certainly relate to your foster daughter. I can't 'like' your post enough.

[Que Sera Sera]

There are also "normal" people like myself who get married, buy a house have 2 children then the OH leaves them, refuses to pay maintenance and even refuses to look after their children so you can work. I had to leave my children in childcare/school as I had to feed clothe them and pay the mortgage and bills. Because I was working I was not able to claim most things and was definitely financially worse off than friends who were not working. When the CSA got involved they said I was not priority as I was working and that if I wanted to speed up the claim I should give up work! I didn't because I wanted to support my family and keep their home. I was 26 without anything but my children went without nothing. My Ex OH though was allowed to go without paying any form of maintenance for most of their lives so in my opinion there is where the problem also lies. Fathers should be more accountable .

[Tappers2oz]

There are also "normal" people like myself who get married, buy a house have 2 children then the OH leaves them, refuses to pay maintenance and even refuses to look after their children so you can work. I had to leave my children in childcare/school as I had to feed clothe them and pay the mortgage and bills. Because I was working I was not able to claim most things and was definitely financially worse off than friends who were not working. When the CSA got involved they said I was not priority as I was working and that if I wanted to speed up the claim I should give up work! I didn't because I wanted to support my family and keep their home. I was 26 without anything but my children went without nothing. My Ex OH though was allowed to go without paying any form of maintenance for most of their lives so in my opinion there is where the problem also lies. Fathers should be more accountable .

 

Oh my goodness that's appalling! Surely the father has a duty of care/right to financially support their kids even if mum works!

Urgh you must have gone mad some days. :-(