Old people better off in UK(than Aus)

[flag of convenience]

Mind you life expectancy is better in Australia than UK, so I'm not sure I would agree with the OP.

 

And by how much? Hardly anything of note.

[flag of convenience]

Really that makes no sense at all.

During their working life, they should have built up superannuation while working in both UK and Australia, and the same with housing. Most people moving over as middle aged immigrnts would have had a property in UK which they have sold and brought funds with them.

 

With property being some of the most expensive in the world this is hardly the case. I'd be surprised if most brought so much in funds from UK that would go towards countering anything like the inflation that has occurred in Oz over the past decade.

Super has a long, long way to go before enough folk have anywhere near enough to make the majority independent. Especially with all the rip off costs around it and many dependant on the spoils of the share market into what the amount is they may retire on.

[Kazzarazza]

just had an older family member over from oz , who picked up an illness , either on the plane or on his way over ....he went to a walk in centre , here in the u.k ....he was shocked

! - by the quality of care he received

2- it was FREE

 

Had my mother over from UK, who picked up an illness, either on the plane or on her way over ...she went to the QEH, here in Adelaide ...she was shocked

1 by the quality of care she received

2 it was FREE

 

Think that's more to do with the reciprocal health agreement, rather than the cost of living :wink:

[ramot]

I would rarther be somewhere warm, english winter as an old person doesnt appeal to me. Slipping over breaking hips etc...not nice... people cant afford the heating bills. RAMOT what are you saying you have to pay for? havent they recently passed a law that says if you have paid in for 10 years you can get free care on the NHS even if you have not been resident

 

Wow, had read it was in the pipe line, but didn't know it had actually been passed. Certainly wasn't in place last year, and luckily I didn't need to go to a Dr. this year. Thank you for that information.

 

Ref your post Flag of Convenience, perhaps it depends on where you live as to older people being more visible? Plenty of us around on the sunshine coast, out walking or swimming at the beach, plenty of 70 and 80 year olds swim every day here, amazes me but true. Eating out in the sunshine. Perhaps we aren't recognisable as old as we wear bright summer clothes, rather than dull coats and head scarves in the UK, so instantly recognisable. Said tongue in cheek.

We also have great retirement villages, so many can keep their independence and have company with lots going on if they wish to join in. I'm not there yet, but when I look at the facilities, heated swimming pool, tennis courts, club house with people playing snooker, cards, book group etc. can't be all bad. Yes I do know plenty living in them so speak from experience. The idea is catching on in UK, but they cost a lot more there than here.

[flag of convenience]

Wow, had read it was in the pipe line, but didn't know it had actually been passed. Certainly wasn't in place last year, and luckily I didn't need to go to a Dr. this year. Thank you for that information.

 

Ref your post Flag of Convenience, perhaps it depends on where you live as to older people being more visible? Plenty of us around on the sunshine coast, out walking or swimming at the beach, plenty of 70 and 80 year olds swim every day here, amazes me but true. Eating out in the sunshine. Perhaps we aren't recognisable as old as we wear bright summer clothes, rather than dull coats and head scarves in the UK, so instantly recognisable. Said tongue in cheek.

We also have great retirement villages, so many can keep their independence and have company with lots going on if they wish to join in. I'm not there yet, but when I look at the facilities, heated swimming pool, tennis courts, club house with people playing snooker, cards, book group etc. can't be all bad. Yes I do know plenty living in them so speak from experience. The idea is catching on in UK, but they cost a lot more there than here.

 

Yes that part of the country I believe so. I have never been so don't speak from experience. I have heard mixed reports with regards to retirement homes over here in The West, from it being great to not a good experience.

 

Of course a number of aged folk are living alone in family housed unable to sell up and move to more practical, smaller size place owing to the means testing of the pension in Australia.

I would say there are pros and cons to retirement in both countries with neither really having a full handle on the complexities of the matter. Perhaps a study of why Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Germany et al are more successful in being rated the best places to retire in more through some light into the issues at hand in both UK and Australia.

[starlight7]

Retirement villages do not cover health care and basically they are in it for the money. If you get frail and sick you are out on your ear with a lot of them. Some have higher level care but, boy, you pay for it. It is like buying a house and then paying rent as well because the monthly service fees are not cheap and they go up and up all the time. The so called nurse on call bit is just a person who will ring an ambulance if you are ill- anyone could do that. They do not offer medical care at all. I have looked into this quite a lot- my Dad was in one and all I can say is, buyer beware!

[VERYSTORMY]

I'm a retired old bloke living in Australia and I'm hap hap happy and far better offski than any of you lot judging from some of your replies to threads.:laugh:

 

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

But Bob. Do you have a substantial mortgage you are trying to pay? The reality is, most Poms coming over will in retirement. The average ago that people are when they move over is about 40. They normally rent for a couple of years then look to buy. I have this morning just met with our mortgage advisor and he said most Poms take a 30 year mortgage and few have more than 5% deposit - a lot don't have that. So, based on a average Perth house price, there taking a $500k mortgage which isn't going to be paid off until their well into their 70's.

 

You have probably paid into super for a long time. But, new Poms are not going to have that option.

 

So, a LOT of people are going to be faced with retiring on a tiny income and still paying a mortgage.

[Bobj]

But Bob. Do you have a substantial mortgage you are trying to pay? The reality is, most Poms coming over will in retirement. The average ago that people are when they move over is about 40. They normally rent for a couple of years then look to buy. I have this morning just met with our mortgage advisor and he said most Poms take a 30 year mortgage and few have more than 5% deposit - a lot don't have that. So, based on a average Perth house price, there taking a $500k mortgage which isn't going to be paid off until their well into their 70's.

 

You have probably paid into super for a long time. But, new Poms are not going to have that option.

 

So, a LOT of people are going to be faced with retiring on a tiny income and still paying a mortgage.

 

Interesting piece, VS. Hadn't realise that. I do know that many newchums lost goodly amounts of money selling their houses in the ir quest for "the dream".

 

Paid off our mortgage 4 years after borrowing from the bank. Owe nowt to anyone...Well, maybe a few thanks to some fellow campers.:yes:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[VERYSTORMY]

No worries Bob. It isn't an anti Oz thing. It is something people moving international from most countries to any other simply don't seem to plan for. It is just as bad - or even worse for those the come here then decide to return to the UK. There back at square one and have a desperate case of trying to play catch up.

 

Were reasonably lucky as although we are just taking out our first Oz mortgage aged mid 40's we are going for a cheaper house - we don't have kids so don't need a big place and should be able to pay it off long before we retire. But, I do feel for those that are not in that position. Personally I think it should a condition of a visa that you show you have undergone financial planning with a professional.

[ramot]

well we have never been the "norm". Moved to Oz when we retired age 60, took out a mortgage and bought a house. We actually know a good few others who have done the same, all having moved internationally, from a good mix of countries, so we are definitely not the only ones. We aren't rich but have worked hard all our life but planned financially for retirement. Really doesn't worry us having a mortgage, if we die before it's paid off, then the bank have have what is still owed. We can always sell and down size.

Would only trust a financial planner who was rich, and haven't met many of them yet, few of them recommend buying property for long term income, as there is nothing in it for them, but for us it was the best thing we did.

Every one has to do what is best for them.

[Petals]

Yes that part of the country I believe so. I have never been so don't speak from experience. I have heard mixed reports with regards to retirement homes over here in The West, from it being great to not a good experience.

 

Of course a number of aged folk are living alone in family housed unable to sell up and move to more practical, smaller size place owing to the means testing of the pension in Australia.

I would say there are pros and cons to retirement in both countries with neither really having a full handle on the complexities of the matter. Perhaps a study of why Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Germany et al are more successful in being rated the best places to retire in more through some light into the issues at hand in both UK and Australia.

 

The countries you mention also have a high rental population and its the norm for people to rent an apartment for life. So they have based their welfare around actual welfare rather than relying on a house to sell and downsize like we do here. As you say there will be many in the future if there are not already that require assistance with housing. The gov just sticks its head in the sand all to hard, give it to the private sector and we can wash our hands of it.

 

Don't get me started on the nursing home debacle and it is one, unbelievable. So mercenary and as far as I am concerned health, aged care, child care should be services not profit making organisations but unfortunately the American way is creeping in and creeping in in UK to with the conservative gov. Its so much easier to govern when you can blame the private sector.

[flag of convenience]

The countries you mention also have a high rental population and its the norm for people to rent an apartment for life. So they have based their welfare around actual welfare rather than relying on a house to sell and downsize like we do here. As you say there will be many in the future if there are not already that require assistance with housing. The gov just sticks its head in the sand all to hard, give it to the private sector and we can wash our hands of it.

 

Don't get me started on the nursing home debacle and it is one, unbelievable. So mercenary and as far as I am concerned health, aged care, child care should be services not profit making organisations but unfortunately the American way is creeping in and creeping in in UK to with the conservative gov. Its so much easier to govern when you can blame the private sector.

 

They do indeed.(rent) The buying obsession in Australia especially, is in my view akin to a vacuum sucking up potential wealth and spending on other things that give enjoyment. Then come retirement the appreciation prevents sale and the kids gain the profit. Although more take reverse mortgages these days which enable a more prosperous retirement with travel options and lifestyle choices.

 

Indeed passing the buck to private operators in the aged game for money does allow the government to take a back seat, much as it does with housing, in allowing foreign investment and immigration to maintain over inflated prices.

 

Did you know the funeral business is now largely in the hands of American companies as well. Hence the increased flogging of pre arranged funerals that have rapidly flooded our tv advertising over the past decade. We have indeed become very American with a price on everything and ever increasing displays of crass ostentatious displays of wealth on show.

 

As such older folk not consumers are relegated as sometimes seen but increasingly unheard members of society. Just look at the pay in the aged sector to see their worth. A job increasingly going to Philippino folk being brought to do the tasks locals don't want or can't afford to do owing to the low pay rates.

[Guest]

I reckon here in Australia it will become very hard in retirement if the rate of inflation continues to spiral.

Dont people pay their pension still into the UK?, its only 150 quid a year if you live abroad. upon retirement get it paid into a UK bank account then just transfer it over. on top of the super it must be better than nothing.

 

Super is wrought with changes so you virtually make nothing, however most people over here are in the property game and have a few properties which they have been paying off as a tax rebate so many aren't that badly off.

 

These retirement places I've seen in oz are miles away from anything so it must be pretty boring so i really dont think its any better than in the UK.

I really think it depends on the person but I will say the first 10 years is where you will spank the money, from 70 onwards your too knackered to do a whole lot and would be more content just hanging about and going to the beach for a swim etc...

I think when people are working they assume and want the same lifestyle as that, when you haven't worked for a while your out of that rate race and have a different life style anyway.

I only know this from people I know that are retired or cant be bothered to work any more.

 

In the Uk there is a massive trend to go on the sick or dole from 55-60 onwards so it doesn't matter if the pension age goes higher anyway

[ramot]

I reckon here in Australia it will become very hard in retirement if the rate of inflation continues to spiral.

Dont people pay their pension still into the UK?, its only 150 quid a year if you live abroad. upon retirement get it paid into a UK bank account then just transfer it over. on top of the super it must be better than nothing.

 

Super is wrought with changes so you virtually make nothing, however most people over here are in the property game and have a few properties which they have been paying off as a tax rebate so many aren't that badly off.

 

These retirement places I've seen in oz are miles away from anything so it must be pretty boring so i really dont think its any better than in the UK.

I really think it depends on the person but I will say the first 10 years is where you will spank the money, from 70 onwards your too knackered to do a whole lot and would be more content just hanging about and going to the beach for a swim etc...

I think when people are working they assume and want the same lifestyle as that, when you haven't worked for a while your out of that rate race and have a different life style anyway.

I only know this from people I know that are retired or cant be bothered to work any more.

 

In the Uk there is a massive trend to go on the sick or dole from 55-60 onwards so it doesn't matter if the pension age goes higher anyway

 

Luckily I've got a year to go before I'm too knackered to do anything. I'll just go and tell my husband to slow down as he is apparently already over the hill!!!

Luckily haven't run out of money either yet.

What a joke, we live life to the full, as do most of our knackered old friends. Might just go for a swim in Moololaba just to keep you happy, the sea looks stunning today.

[Paul1Perth]

just had an older family member over from oz , who picked up an illness , either on the plane or on his way over ....he went to a walk in centre , here in the u.k ....he was shocked

! - by the quality of care he received

2- it was FREE

 

Don't know why he would have been. If he went to any doctor here who bulk bills he would have got exactly the same.

[NickyNook]

Super is wrought with changes so you virtually make nothing ...

 

Really? My OH and I went from having a zero super balance to having well over a million in super in less than 20 years. And that included a few years when it went backwards instead of forwards. You might think that over a million dollars is virtually nothing but I'm very happy to have it.

 

These retirement places I've seen in oz are miles away from anything so it must be pretty boring so i really dont think its any better than in the UK.

 

 

Nonsense. There are retirement places everywhere. I live in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, which is about as central as you can get, and there are plenty of them around here.

[Paul1Perth]

There's a retirement place just down the road form where we live. It's one of those St Ives places and me and the wife were walking by about 10 years ago and they had an open day. We went in just to have a nosey. It looks great to me and I was joking with my missus then to get our name down. Some of the apartments are pretty big, certainly big enough to get a 4 wheel drive and a caravan in the parking bay as a few of the oldies looked like the grey nomad types who buzz off to warmer Northern destinations for part of the year.

 

They can lock the place up and go knowing that there is security and the garden gets looked after while they are away. The middle of the complex had a big bowling green, barbeques, bar with pool and snooker table, pool, spar, tennis court, small gym.

 

I've mentioned it a few times to the wife since and she still thinks I'm joking. Maybe I am for a few years yet but we could sell up and move in there when we are a bit older easily. Meet a few older folk from there at the beach, it's only a 5min stroll down and they come down in a group and sit in the deckchairs. Some still go for a swim. A lot of them are expats and they all have good things to say about the place.

[Petals]

Really? My OH and I went from having a zero super balance to having well over a million in super in less than 20 years. And that included a few years when it went backwards instead of forwards. You might think that over a million dollars is virtually nothing but I'm very happy to have it.

 

 

 

Nonsense. There are retirement places everywhere. I live in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, which is about as central as you can get, and there are plenty of them around here.

 

To be realistic you are one of the lucky ones with super, studies have been carried out and most super for people retiring as baby boomers is about 90 - 100 thousand which is not a lot for the rest of their lives. Film star super goes with film star jobs and most people have what are called ordinary jobs, such jobs are often most important to our world but they are not recognised as such.

 

We hope we live in a civilised world where some people are never going to be able to support their retirement even though they have contributed all their lives to tax and some super. We as civilised people should look after them and I do not agree with the thoughts that everyone should be able to look after themselves.

 

Just because I am ok I want everyone else to be ok to in the country I live in.

 

Unfortunately the thinking these days is all about avarice and not about those that are not as well off as we may be.

 

I put tax minimisation into the same category as we all want what tax provides but a lot of people think its others taxes who should provide not theirs.

 

Aged care is a problem but then again we are not allowed to have euthanasia as that is terrible taking life, my goodness, better to leave in a nursing home on rations and no visitors a much better alternative.

 

As for retirement villages I concur that they build them in the most inappropriate places. What may seem nearby when one is younger and able is a long way when one is older and infirm.

[NickyNook]

Film star super goes with film star jobs and most people have what are called ordinary jobs, such jobs are often most important to our world but they are not recognised as such.

 

 

LOL! My OH was a NSW public servant (not particularly senior, either) and I'm an IT contractor. Hardly film star occupations.

[Slean Wolfhead]

LOL! My OH was a NSW public servant (not particularly senior, either) and I'm an IT contractor. Hardly film star occupations.

 

Yeah, the Aussies are far more clued up about pensions and it amazes me just how savvy they are. I was speaking to a mid-range public servant in his late 30's and he has over $600k saved already, but also a target for mortgage, investment, tax relief, early pension release scenario.....well covered. He showed me his account online, with all previous employer super schemes linked under his identity..very impressive.

I like the way you can go to public sessions for pension education. Me and the OH went to one and it was packed. Some of the questions from the other attendees were way ahead of anything i'd considered in Britain, but they seem to enjoy it and enthuse about it. It's like fantasy football but for real stakes.

Even now in Britain, the amount of people who've done nothing and assume they'll live on a state pension with the council housing them when they run into inevitable trouble makes you despair really.

[NickyNook]

Some of the questions from the other attendees were way ahead of anything i'd considered in Britain, but they seem to enjoy it and enthuse about it. It's like fantasy football but for real stakes.

 

 

Yes, it's amazing how interesting super becomes when the balance has risen to a reasonable amount (and the time you need to use it looms closer :wink:).

 

However plenty of people take no interest in it, they just leave it in multiple, separate accounts and then whinge when it doesn't grow much. We were always pro-active with ours and moved it around into different growth classes depending on the financial climate at the time. We also salary-sacrificed extra contributions in recent years when we could afford it and used an industry fund which had low fees. Everything withdrawn from it now my OH has retired is tax-free so I have no complaints whatever about it. I think it's a great system.

[Johndoe]

Dunno how there are comments about Oz super being "worthless",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I can't remember exact figures without digging out the paperwork but the (off the top of my head) statement that one poster has made about super being worthless has me gobsmacked...............we've been here 18 yrs..................one income (nurse) family, and my wife has built 370k (Qld health) into her super and she still has another 12 yrs to pay into it...............the 7 yrs she payed into the NHS seems rather puny by (year to year) comparison. I'm also amazed at the statements about fees................certain "industry supers" cary negligible fees...............purely admin.

[Slean Wolfhead]

I'm also amazed at the statements about fees................certain "industry supers" cary negligible fees...............purely admin.

 

And they're worth paying for to get the necessary information and flexibility to manage your super the way you like, everything in your control at your fingertips.

Just like working through an agency, you pay a % cut for their services to deal with your payroll and record keeping functions. No problem with it.

 

I have 20 years of payments into a defined benefits scheme in the UK which is probably too good to transfer to Oz, but in 18 months I haven't been able to get a cashable value statement from them. They rely on employers input, my previous employer is a basket case UK local government who've cut staff and can't respond, so the "free" administrative service we get from them is non-existent.

[Petals]

The real problem is that you may think you have enough super however with inflation you probably need double. $375,000 sounds a lot of super but its not if you live for thirty or forty years. My mum is in her thirtieth year of retirement and she has managed but she is not into all the technology that we take for granted these days.

 

The time to pay into super is when people first start work then put extra in and it pays dividends. My children are doing this.

[Slean Wolfhead]

The real problem is that you may think you have enough super however with inflation you probably need double. $375,000 sounds a lot of super but its not if you live for thirty or forty years. My mum is in her thirtieth year of retirement and she has managed but she is not into all the technology that we take for granted these days.

 

The time to pay into super is when people first start work then put extra in and it pays dividends. My children are doing this.

 

The last advice i got is that the current retirement target required is $700,000 for a couple, assuming you've paid off your mortgage !

If you want to retire earlier, you need more.....food for thought and a real need to look into extra investment and tax benefits from saving earlier and grabbing interest.