simmo Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The report found that Australia's overall ranking was damaged by the financial circumstances of older people, with 27 per cent having an income less than half the country's average. Poor public transport that limited the independence of older people also harmed Australia's score. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/older-australians-faring-poorly-20131001-2uqt0.html#ixzz2h0cRfPp2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Vikki Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Often thought if this was the case for getting older in Australia and if it was the best place to be. With the costs of medical care and such like, when you get older, do not think that the UK would be that bad for getting older in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I think there are many on here don't realize / plan for what moving to Oz will mean come retirement. A lot are still going to have substantial mortgages when they retire. Most are not, because they haven't been here long enough, going to have much of a super fund. I think we can all expect to see huge cuts in public pensions / benefits on the basis that "we now all provide for our own future, so why should the state". I can almost see that statement being rolled out from the government in the not so distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 That would be my eyeball evaluation as well - I'm quite gobsmacked at the care and level of service for oldies in UK, far better than I've seen in Aus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Mind you life expectancy is better in Australia than UK, so I'm not sure I would agree with the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I think there are many on here don't realize / plan for what moving to Oz will mean come retirement. A lot are still going to have substantial mortgages when they retire. Most are not, because they haven't been here long enough, going to have much of a super fund. I think we can all expect to see huge cuts in public pensions / benefits on the basis that "we now all provide for our own future, so why should the state". I can almost see that statement being rolled out from the government in the not so distant future. Really that makes no sense at all. During their working life, they should have built up superannuation while working in both UK and Australia, and the same with housing. Most people moving over as middle aged immigrnts would have had a property in UK which they have sold and brought funds with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Oldies live longer and seem to be fitter in oz for longer. Old in Oz wouldnt appeal to me and the amount of tax you pay here, you seem to get nothing for it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Really that makes no sense at all.During their working life, they should have built up superannuation while working in both UK and Australia, and the same with housing. Most people moving over as middle aged immigrnts would have had a property in UK which they have sold and brought funds with them. There is no "super" in the UK. There are a range of pension options which are voluntary. A number of which, particularly those for professionals are not transferable. Housing, I suspect most use their equity in setting themselves up in the move - moving costs, living while finding a job and things. Also factor in the difference in house prices. Unless you are moving from central London then house costs are going to be a lot higher. For example, we moved here from Leicester. We sold our house for £85k. We owed, with early settlement penalty £60k. We used all of the remaining equity in setting up here. Now, I am about to take on a mortgage for $500k. I am lucky as I earn a good income and should pay this off before I retire. The average person starting out won't. Just look at the posts on here or meet a number of them - I have met a fair few via the Perth forum and all are using their equity to set themselves up. So will be at a square one house buyer in their mid 40's and probably having to take a 30 year mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Well that is even worse. If your argument is that the UK having no superannuation system and people instead relying more on government pensions is a better approach, then I strongly disagree. Australia's super system is really a great system and forces,provides incentives for people to save for their retirements and not be totally dependent on pensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 There is a problem presently for people who retire as super did not start till about 1990 so a lot of people who are retired or are retiring have small superannuation payouts. Also now that its linked to the market rather than a multiple it can be a bit hit and miss and super funds have taken a big hit over the last few years and people have lost a lot of money. So I think the gov can dream on about making people live on their super. As the baby boomers come through they are not going to put up with the situation as it is now, they are going to be a lot more demanding and there are a lot of them. We were very fortunate as my oh was superannuated for over thirty years in his job and he got a multiple when he retired. However when he started work there not everyone got super, only some of the people who were higher up the ladder were given the option. Also the instrumentality he worked for paid a lot more than the 9% into super. If super is rolled to an allocated pension and you take an income from it then you pay no tax on that income. My mum lives on the old age pension and rents and she saves heaps of money, she has her own money as she owned property and sold it as it was too much bother for her. However she does not touch her money at all. So really its only because we use so many services now that we need more money to live on. Its not a picnic wherever you are old, aged care is only as good as the provider who is personally involved with the individual, and there are plenty of horror stories around in UK and Aus about this. Unfortunately like child care people do not think that carers and others who work in these industries deserve the film star wages that most seem to have so we get the carers who we are prepared to pay for. Mind you if you look at the amount of people who never make it to retirement we are lucky to do so. Lots of young people struck down in their prime these days with health problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 GB is waking up to the problem of funding so many people over the age of 60. Recent changes to the entitlement age for the state pension are being phased, no compulsory retirement age, self-funded employer pensions where you will have to opt out (expect the opt out to be removed in the future). Old people do receive a lot of state concessions such as bus passes and winter fuel allowance. Political suicide to erode the value of what is provided even to many well-off old people but it is probably not affordable. Australia seems to be ahead of the game by comparison. The thrust of the post is right though that if you are thinking of emigrating and making that move for life make sure that you have factored in how you will manage after you retire. If you return to the UK after a long absence state pension entitlements may have been eroded too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Well that is even worse. If your argument is that the UK having no superannuation system and people instead relying more on government pensions is a better approach, then I strongly disagree. Australia's super system is really a great system and forces,provides incentives for people to save for their retirements and not be totally dependent on pensions. I partly agree. There are a lot of people in the UK with no pension provision. Though at the same time, super is not the answer. The current model is not going to provide enough income for people and the biggest beneficiaries are the super funds. But the reality is, many who come here will be suffering later in life Then as i said, there are a number whose pensions will not be drawable or transferable. I have a mate who works for Rio Tinto in the UK. He has a non contributory final salary pension. He was looking at moving to Oz. Luckily he used a financial advisor to do the pros and cons. He discovered that his pension would simply be lost - a pension that if he stays another 10 years is going to pay about 80% of final salary index linked. There are lots of others that lose there pension. Not every pension can be transferred. Even if you can transfer, there are huge implications. Fees and inflation on a fund that has no income coming in for 20 years can be huge - I recently spoke to my accountant of what my super would be worth if we move back to the UK (I pay in a VERY substantial amount) the result is, after fees, inflation and bit and pieces, almost nothing. People moving to Oz, from my experience, look fairly short term - 12 months max. Very few look at the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 - a pension that if he stays another 10 years is going to pay about 80% of final salary index linked. There are lots of others that lose there pension. Not every pension can be transferred. Wow, 80% final salary index-linked. Really? Good grief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Wow, 80% final salary index-linked. Really? Good grief! Yeah. Damned annoying given we do the same job and best I was offered was same salary, less holidays, same roster and standard super here in Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linday Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Really that makes no sense at all.During their working life, they should have built up superannuation while working in both UK and Australia, and the same with housing. Most people moving over as middle aged immigrnts would have had a property in UK which they have sold and brought funds with them. Yes, but your state pension is frozen at the rate at which you begin to draw it and you don't get the annual increases and you are reliant on the fluctuating exchange rate which can make quite a difference. Bad enough when it was 2.5 plus, but diabolical at 1.5. In addition the poor exchange rate and high housing costs in Australia mean that the proceeds from the UK house do not really go very far, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobj Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm a retired old bloke living in Australia and I'm hap hap happy and far better offski than any of you lot judging from some of your replies to threads.:laugh: Cheers, Bobj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The report found that Australia's overall ranking was damaged by the financial circumstances of older people, with 27 per cent having an income less than half the country's average. Poor public transport that limited the independence of older people also harmed Australia's score. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/older-australians-faring-poorly-20131001-2uqt0.html#ixzz2h0cRfPp2 just had an older family member over from oz , who picked up an illness , either on the plane or on his way over ....he went to a walk in centre , here in the u.k ....he was shocked ! - by the quality of care he received 2- it was FREE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 just had an older family member over from oz , who picked up an illness , either on the plane or on his way over ....he went to a walk in centre , here in the u.k ....he was shocked ! - by the quality of care he received 2- it was FREE Because he'd have been left on the streets to rot in Oz :wub:..................................predictable and boring reply :dull: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The report found that Australia's overall ranking was damaged by the financial circumstances of older people, with 27 per cent having an income less than half the country's average. Poor public transport that limited the independence of older people also harmed Australia's score. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/older-australians-faring-poorly-20131001-2uqt0.html#ixzz2h0cRfPp2 Load of old rubbish simmo old people are better off where ever they have made provisions and planned for there retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 It really depends what people want to do in retirement. I had my children later in life because I wanted to live my life to the full whilst I was young and able to do so, I have never regretted my decision. When you actually get to retirement you may find that its not quite as you imagined 20 years ago or even 10 years ago, why because despite the fact that some run, jump, swim and all such things its not the same as doing them when younger. Also you need to think between 60 - 70 is when you need the most money after that most older people continue to do stuff but there is no guarantee you will be around longer. My oh did not expect to die at 71 and 15 months ago he was a fit and healthy man, then mesothelioma came to our door and he lived for 13 months. So there are no guarantees. So why worry. Just get on with life and I would rather live my life in a temperate climate as a retiree than in the UK, I cannot abide fog, grey skies, snow, wet, humid weather. Our health system looks after us very well, if we are ignored its because we can be as we are not suffering a life threatening illness. If we were we get the best of treatment if we want it. A lot of us do not want it and I already have my medical power of attorney in place. So there are people in UK who are having a great retirement however there are also a lot who are in a living hell, the same goes for Aus for any other place where age and lack of money comes to pay as the very poor have always been poor and no amount of services can compete with those that are paid for. My friend has 2 people in homes in the UK and they are paying over eight hundred pounds a week from their pocket so what is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 just had an older family member over from oz , who picked up an illness , either on the plane or on his way over ....he went to a walk in centre , here in the u.k ....he was shocked ! - by the quality of care he received 2- it was FREE[ yes it cost him nothing because of the reciprocal agreement between Oz and UK PR residents, but tax payers in UK are subsidizing this and is that right when the NHS is theoretically struggling? and out of interest as we are temporary visa holders in OZ, and haven't lived in UK for a long time we have to pay, which really doesn't make sense, as we have paid UK tax all our working lives, and have a state pension. As Petals says, there are pensioners either doing well or struggling in both countries, and horror stories again from both countries. those of us already retired probably know many more retirees than younger members, and are in a better position to compare. No real complaints from people we know in both countries, and in our case we prefer a warm climate. I always said I would rather be old poor and warm. Have a long term memory of parents in law putting only a few pieces of coal at a time (because of lack of money) on the only fire in the house, and the rest of the house absolutely freezing. Ok more central heating these days, as long as you can afford to use it. I still think air con is cheaper to run. I cannot fault the health care I have had here, yes we pay, but we have such access in comparison to UK. Yes waiting times are probably perhaps equally bad in the public hospital system here? But as far as I know you have to go to hospital for almost everything in UK, eg having an X-ray, and accept the wait for an appointment? If I'm wrong I apologise, but I do like the access to the local diagnostic clinics here, rather than having to go to hospital. wherever you retire, live life to the full, and remember no one place suits all, I'm certainly not knocking UK, we might yet end up there one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The report found that Australia's overall ranking was damaged by the financial circumstances of older people, with 27 per cent having an income less than half the country's average. Poor public transport that limited the independence of older people also harmed Australia's score. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/older-australians-faring-poorly-20131001-2uqt0.html#ixzz2h0cRfPp2 Something long evident to me. My impression is it has got even harder in Australia when old over the past decade or two. This is due to rising costs and an impoverished pension. Old folk do not have the numbers as in UK/Europe to have the political influence as they do over there. Although there is stress on aged care everywhere, speaking from experience UK/and especially Northern Europe are far better placed. Take Germany for example. Kids there have the responsibility in law to fund parents care when able. Services are of a very high standard as well for the aged in that country. Aged folk are far more visible. In Australia, a country with a strong focus on youth, aged folk can appear invisible. The aged in Britain, being a smaller , easily travelled country by means of public transport, where folk can often easier get about without the need to run an expensive car all make up towards greater ease. Nowhere is probably ideal when old but Australia does look to be a somewhat lonely place to top it off from my observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The one thing where Australia does stand out is the weather. Generally a warmer climate is preferable for most in age. Living in poverty does negate the benefits to some extent but still something worth considering. There is more talk of the developing of aged care services in South East Asia. Already a number of fitter folk relocate there, so taking it another step as an option is only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Load of old rubbish simmo old people are better off where ever they have made provisions and planned for there retirement. True enough. In Oz the necessity lies in funding one's own retirement. Still a lot remains wrong with a system that penalizes folk that do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolvesaussie Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I would rarther be somewhere warm, english winter as an old person doesnt appeal to me. Slipping over breaking hips etc...not nice... people cant afford the heating bills. RAMOT what are you saying you have to pay for? havent they recently passed a law that says if you have paid in for 10 years you can get free care on the NHS even if you have not been resident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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