Why are so many Britons leaving Australia?

[flag of convenience]

We'll have to disagree on living in Bali, things have improved dramatically for the average working person in retirement. I don't think Bali beckons for younger folk with 30-40 years of super contributions, except maybe for a holiday.

 

I do agree that the UK will adopt more of the Aussie system, but only in time. They need to get everyone over this first major step of self-provision, having not even moved away from defined benefit pensions as yet, which did occur in Australia in the 90s. Add in the pension 'mis-selling scandals' and breaches of trust by financial institutions (still), and maybe it's no wonder it will take much longer to make that change.

 

Knowing both pension systems well, I think the move to 12% contributions in Aus will almost reach self-provision and something to leave your kids when you're gone.

 

Perhaps not with younger folk who have time to build up funds ....but for folk now and in the next decade many will be left short changed. Those are whom I refer to. Who can say also if future governments don't start dipping into it as well?

Anyhow my experience having mixed options was that I took a hit a few years running....

[flag of convenience]

Having no mortgage makes a substantial difference in so many ways.

 

Very much so. As well as coming during the right time to pay cash.

[CockneyRebel]

What a load of tosh! We've been here 18 yrs.......................managed on one income with minimum of two kids...............sometimes 9 kids......................have (already) $750k in my wife's superann, no mortgage, with at least (her wish) 10 more working years ahead of her, and the subsequent superann contributions...........why would I need to live in Bali? Anyone who does, has either not provided for their future, overspent, or is just plain doodleally.

 

and of course $750k is the average amount all Australians would have.....

What have you been doing for the last 18 years saving all your money and living off germs?

Its no life ploughing all your money into a pension.

[Guest chris955]

Blimey most Aussies would just about chew off their left arm to have that much super.

[Johndoe]

Having no mortgage makes a substantial difference in so many ways.

 

Yes it does. We practically lived off eggs/beans/spaghetti the first couple of years we were here and didn't even have a bed for 6 months...................life hasn't been easy, but it is a damn sight easier now, because we were prepared to sacrifice "niceties" for removing the debt of a mortgage.

[Skani]

Not sure what you find a lot of tosh. The fact that folk do move to Bali ..or that you would have no need to move to Bali yourself? Whatever the plans are afoot to build retirement homes in Bali with the ageing Australian community in mind.

There are many folk of pension age that have been unable to build up anywhere near a satisfactory sum to live in comfort on in Australia. That is fact and the old age pension that not go very far ....

 

 

Some entrepreneur may see an opportunity for making money out of Balinese retirement villages for Australians - but it doesn't mean that they are economically forced to retire there.

I am living on superannuation income which is a poofteenth of Mrs. Johndoe's...but living quite comfortably, thank you.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Skani

[Guest guest68546]

Yes it does. We practically lived off eggs/beans/spaghetti the first couple of years we were here and didn't even have a bed for 6 months...................life hasn't been easy, but it is a damn sight easier now, because we were prepared to sacrifice "niceties" for removing the debt of a mortgage.

You couldn't do that now though because house price inflation has outstripped salary inflation by such a huge margin.

It may not have been your intention but highlighting your personal circumstances come across as boastful when you have been blessed with a completely different set of circumstances to those who only made the move anytime in say the last 5-7 years (probably longer).Not your fault of course that the circumstance have changed but at the same time, it should be acknowledged for newer migrants.

Edited September 18, 2012 by guest68546

[Life on easy street]

You couldn't do that now though because house price inflation has outstripped salary inflation by such a huge margin.

It may not have been your intention but highlighting your personal circumstances come across as boastful when you have been blessed with a completely different set of circumstances to those who only made the move anytime in say the last 5-7 years (probably longer).Not your fault of course that the circumstance have changed but at the same time, it should be acknowledged for newer migrants.

 

 

spot on at least some one on PIO lives in the real world.

 

what i noticed about housing cost in 2007

 

house prices doubled between 2003 when my first visa application failed and 2007 when i finally got my PR visa.

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/renting-real-estate/25067-house-land-purchase-costs.html

 

 

no amount of living on beens walking 20k to work living in tent can make up for that level of increase in house prices.

[Guest TheArmChairDetective]

spot on at least some one on PIO lives in the real world.

 

what i noticed about housing cost in 2007

 

house prices doubled between 2003 when my first visa application failed and 2007 when i finally got my PR visa.

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/renting-real-estate/25067-house-land-purchase-costs.html

 

 

no amount of living on beens walking 20k to work living in tent can make up for that level of increase in house prices.

 

Yes, but it's all relative isn't it.

The housing cost of what you were selling in the same period has changed too.

[Johndoe]

Not sure what you find a lot of tosh.

 

The inference that they need to live in Bali, as if it's the "cost of living here" that's responsible for that need. I very much doubt that your average "Aussie battler" is the one taking him/herslef off to Bali. It's more likely to be the more educated, "better heeled" aussie looking to get more for their bucks.

[Johndoe]

and of course $750k is the average amount all Australians would have.....

What have you been doing for the last 18 years saving all your money and living off germs?

Its no life ploughing all your money into a pension.

 

Our life has been very fulfilling thank you. It's no life waking up at pensionable age and realising that you haven't provided for it. I'm 12 yrs older than my OH and no doubt will pop my clogs long before her. As a carer for an autistic son, it's good to know that she can retire early and take over the riole if need be. Our priorities may be duifferent than most, but our life is no less fulfilling, in fact, I bet we can sleep easier than many.

[Guest guest68546]

Yes, but it's all relative isn't it.

The housing cost of what you were selling in the same period has changed too.

 

.....and what about in cases where there is no house to sell or if in the UK....not to mention the recent exchange rate where, the last 2-3 years especially, will be leaving them substantially worse in comparison to earlier times!

 

Circumstances have changed significantly for newer migrants that established migrants should bear in mind when offering their 'pearls of wisdom' and highlighting how well they did when they started out. Its not a criticism of any particular individual but facts which are all too rarely, overlooked.

Edited September 18, 2012 by guest68546

[Guest Melanie Lang]

Yes I think Oz is exactly like that, Ive been in Oz 6 months now and miss going to a good pub, good clothes shopping (its crap here) missing friends and family and the hustle and bustle, it feels like there's something missing all the time. The main good points of Oz over Uk are the weather and the opportunity to enjoy the environment more often and be warm!

We're not sure if we'll stay or go, sometimes we don't want to be anywhere else sometimes we can't believe how behind things are in Oz.

[Guest TheArmChairDetective]

.....and what about in cases where there is no house to sell or if in the UK....not to mention the recent exchange rate where, the last 2-3 years especially, will be leaving them substantially worse in comparison to earlier times!

 

Circumstances have changed significantly for newer migrants that established migrants should bear in mind when offering their 'pearls of wisdom' and highlighting how well they did when they started out. Its not a criticism of any particular individual but facts which are all too rarely, overlooked.

 

It's all relative.

[Johndoe]

You couldn't do that now though because house price inflation has outstripped salary inflation by such a huge margin.

It may not have been your intention but highlighting your personal circumstances come across as boastful when you have been blessed with a completely different set of circumstances to those who only made the move anytime in say the last 5-7 years (probably longer).Not your fault of course that the circumstance have changed but at the same time, it should be acknowledged for newer migrants.

 

Sorry TopBhoy, but I'm not boasting..................far from it. My comments were made in the context of someone saying that Australians are now having to retire in bali due to financial circumstance.................well excuse me but....................the Australians in question, if they find themselves in that situation, have had a damn sight longer than me or mine to sort out their future. Our 'financial future' only started 18 yrs ago when we arrived with only 18k and lost 11 of that on a land deal within the first 2 yrs. My endowments were sold off in the UK prior to us leaving to raise that 18k. I'm merely pointing out our circumstance in the context of someone who's had longer to provide for themselves supposedly having to move countries to survive. Hope that clears that up.

 

Now to your last statement. Is me "being blessed" by arriving here earlier, and since then, living on just one income, so far removed from some who come here later with so much more 'readies' claiming that they can't live on 2 incomes? Who knows as it's all relative to the individual's needs and priorities, is it not? But what I will address is the inference that I don't recognise the difficulties that newer migrants face. I have said many times that I fully appreciate that the struggle to settle here is now much more challenging than it once was, and I have even advised some not to come when I thought their prospects/salrly offered/location etc looked pretty grim. Hope that clears that one up too.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

So am I right in thinking that everyone who works in Australia get this Super pension? Where their employers pay 9% is it? And the government chips in more? Here in the UK there's millions of folk who work all their lives and because they are on low wages they can't afford a pension plan and have to rely on the state pension, which is about a measly £100 per week if I am correct, just how does that compare to this Super, it's mentioned that most Aussies will have a pension pot of at least $750,000 what sort of pension does this get you? And do you get a gratuity payment when you draw it? Cheers.

[Guest TheArmChairDetective]

Here Hoff, you in the Prison service , isn't your pension a special fund ? Isn't that a superannuation Pension?.......Like mine :-)

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Here Hoff, you in the Prison service , isn't your pension a special fund ? Isn't that a superannuation Pension?.......Like mine :-)

 

 

Its a final salary scheme, if that's a Super Ann then, yes, the wife's nurses one is Super Ann, but I have never heard mine called that, doesn't mean it isn't one. I just wondered if all Aussies got it, if they do, WOW that's fantastic, theres millions here in the UK living on the breadline on only the crappy state pension, as you know.

[Guest TheArmChairDetective]

That's the one, don't forget that in the UK, when you reach 65....err 66, the scheme payments reduce by the state pension amount you get.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

That's the one, don't forget that in the UK, when you reach 65....err 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71 and so on the scheme payments reduce by the state pension amount you get.

 

 

WHAAAAAAT ....... Surely that's not right, I was working the state pension on top of my prison pension, it's the first I have heard about it, are you sure?

[Guest TheArmChairDetective]

WHAAAAAAT ....... Surely that's not right, I was working the state pension on top of my prison pension, it's the first I have heard about it, are you sure?

 

I would go see your rep, my service pension is £!!%$£?! but at state pension will be reduced by the amount received from the state. So I will still get the same amount but £x from the state and £!!%$ from the fund.

[Johndoe]

So am I right in thinking that everyone who works in Australia get this Super pension? Where their employers pay 9% is it? And the government chips in more? Here in the UK there's millions of folk who work all their lives and because they are on low wages they can't afford a pension plan and have to rely on the state pension, which is about a measly £100 per week if I am correct, just how does that compare to this Super, it's mentioned that most Aussies will have a pension pot of at least $750,000 what sort of pension does this get you? And do you get a gratuity payment when you draw it? Cheers.

 

The Gov't doesn't chip in more Jim. The employer pays 9% of your salary into superann and this is gradually going to be increased to 12%.................unless a different future gov't renages on that. The general contribution of the employee is 2%, although my OH opted for 5%. You can also make ex gratia payments during your service if you have a "windfall' or have other disposable income that you want to invest. If you salary sacrifice it, it's taxed at 15% going in, and you pay no tax on it coming out................better in there (if you can afford it) than in your pay packet being taxed at a higher level. I believe the gov't is, or has already, made moved to put a ceiling on the amount that is only taxed at 15% and the ex gratia payments also have a new ceiling.

 

On retirement you can draw a certain amount as a lump sum and invest the rest into an annuity scheme to give you a fornightly pension. I know quite a few folk who have already partially retired, draw on their superann for living expenses, but continue to work part-time, paying their salary straight back into the superann, but I am not clear on the tax benefits of this.

 

edit to add; there are some who don't contribute themselves, but misguidedly think that the employer's contribution alone will see them through...............these are the ones likely to find hardship when they retire.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Johndoe

[VERYSTORMY]

Your employer doesnt pay anything for you. You pay 9% of your salary which most people do via their employer. It is paid to a super fund of your choice. The super fund then "invest" it for you in the hope the investment grows. But, because of the world economic situation, my investment of 9% of a reasonably good salary is now worth about a (small) round of drinks in Perth. If you think the state pension in the UK is bad, it is $1048 per month in Oz for a couple. Given the average rent is about $1500 it is not going to get you far. Prescriptions are also not free.

[Johndoe]

Your employer doesnt pay anything for you. You pay 9% of your salary which most people do via their employer.

 

http://www.ato.gov.au/content/00250233.htm

 

Incorrect. It's a compulsory employer contribution: "Most people are entitled to compulsory super contributions from their employer. These super guarantee contributions must be at least 9% of your ordinary earnings, up to the 'maximum contribution base'. You may also be entitled to choose the fund your super is paid into.

You can check that your employer is paying the correct super and, if necessary, ask us to look into it."

 

The employer pays it and it should not be quoted as part of a salary package as some employers do.

[Guest guest68546]

http://www.ato.gov.au/content/00250233.htm

 

Incorrect. It's a compulsory employer contribution: "Most people are entitled to compulsory super contributions from their employer. These super guarantee contributions must be at least 9% of your ordinary earnings, up to the 'maximum contribution base'. You may also be entitled to choose the fund your super is paid into.

You can check that your employer is paying the correct super and, if necessary, ask us to look into it."

 

The employer pays it and it should not be quoted as part of a salary package as some employers do.

Is this not a matter of perception? I believe employer Super contributions are included within what is known as a TAP (Total Annual Package). Its a common method of presenting an employees benefit package. The employer will specify an itemised benefits package such as the salary, employer Super contribution, any Fringe benefits, car, etc. within the 'Letter of Offer'.