Why are so many Britons leaving Australia?

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Hoffy,

 

Life really isnt all sunshine and roses in the job front here you know! There have been thousands of jobs list since Can Do Newman DID! Funding has been smashed to nursing homes resulting in less money available to provide care for the elderly. Nurses jobs have been "reduced" in rural communities. Fireman jobs cut here in QLD , "front line" workers that were assured of job safety have gone!

Money wise, I can say I am on slightly more than in the UK but here in private sector we are on MUCH less than the hospital staff. There are problems everywhere. Australia is not all hearts and flowers right now!

 

 

I know, if it gets a lot worse it will be like the UK.

[Guest guest36187]

Its going to get worse before it gets better! $500 million has been cut from Aged Care Funding. We had been given a new funding tool in order to claim for the care needs of our clients and the government has criticisied and penalised us for using it properly and claiming for what we do! Our funding has dramatically dropped where I work which in turn has a massive impact on staffing. Its madness!

Im just wondering how long it will be before the Newman government decides Aged Care nurses are dispensible against hospital staff.....

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

A million people have lost their jobs here in the UK over the last few years and the unemployment figures have just dropped slightly over recent months which is good news, but the good well paid jobs that have been lost are being replaced by not so great jobs, with poor pay, little or no pensions and it's a sign of the times.

[Guest Guest63690]

I know, if it gets a lot worse it will be like the UK.

 

Hi Hoff, Have you heard of this group? http://www.respecttherisk.com.au/

 

There are now 12 privatised prisons in Australia (same as UK). This Respect the Risk campaign group has been set up to prevent further privitisation and to minimise the risks of over crowding etc which apparently has become a big problem over there, with an increase of 25% prisoners in WA prisons since 2009. Do the UK have a similar group?

[Rugby Lad]

Theres a big difference from the UK private sector and the Australian private sector, the wages and working conditions are by far better in Austalia, take the prison jobs for instance, the wage is at least the same, or even better, but in the UK private firms pay £6k less than the public sector, plus they have crap pension rights and hardly any staff, but in Oz they have plenty of staff. The UK has lost 800,000 jobs over the last few years hundreds of thousands of public sector jobs, but there has been an increase of over 900,000 private sector jobs with low pay, no real pension and more workload, the whole face of the UK job market is changing and none of it for the better, but ....... You don't live here so you wouldn't know?

 

Ropey,

 

This isn't just happening in the UK, it's a phenomonen throughout the developed world. Australia is no utopia and at the moment a lot of what you're describing is happening here as well.

 

Google Barry O'Farrell and / or Campbell Newman to give yourself some idea of what is going on with cuts here. If Tony Abbott becomes Prime Minister things will only get worse.

 

I've posted this before about wages but it's worth putting up again:

 

A lot of people just don't listen to facts. The idea that all of Australia is on huge wages is false.

 

What is certainly true is that large parts of the UK (speaking both "parts" geographically and "parts" as in sectors of the economy) have become extremely low wage paying in the last 35 years, becoming even more so in the last 15 years - e.g the minimum wage now being seen as a maximum wage in many sectors. This has not happened to the same degree in Australia where wage inequality is lower and the minimum wage far higher.

 

The effect on median wages (the best "average" wage statistic) is to show that Australians are paid far more than Brits. But dig deeper and the reason is that Australia has a large number of people on $60 - 65000 whilst the UK has large numbers of people on £12 - 16000. As you go higher up the wage scales the differences narrow quite considerably.

 

It is very dependant upon what you do as to what the wage gap will be. As has been pointed out earlier the Australian average wage is approx $1200 pw for men and $800 pw for women.

 

Also bear in mind that 40% of Australians are on temporary or casual contracts - not great for job security.

 

As for conditions - google Workcover. I certainly wouldn't want to get injured at work, I'd be financially ruined.

 

I emphathise that you're stuck where you don't want to be and I hope you get out here really soon. I also appreciate how hard life is for many in the UK at the moment, esp. if they're unemployed or under-employed. But it's important to be realistic about Australia. I like living here and many have good lives but claiming it's some paradise immune from global economics helps no-one - least of all yourself.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

You make some good valid points Rugby lad, just to clarify though, I'm not stuck somewhere I don't want to be, i have a great life here in the UK, life is really sweet for me, but it's not the same for a lot of people who are doing it tough here in the UK and like I have already said,it isn't easy anywhere, even Australia, but most of those migrating there and are members on here are skilled workers and can expect good pay when they get there once they find employment, which at the moment seems to be getting harder, but still better chance in Oz than the UK at present.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Hi Hoff, Have you heard of this group? http://www.respecttherisk.com.au/

 

There are now 12 privatised prisons in Australia (same as UK). This Respect the Risk campaign group has been set up to prevent further privitisation and to minimise the risks of over crowding etc which apparently has become a big problem over there, with an increase of 25% prisoners in WA prisons since 2009. Do the UK have a similar group?

 

 

Its just the same in the UK, only difference is the private prison screws in the UK are paid thousands less than us and they have crap pensions and their staffing levels are dangerously low, I was close to working for GEO in Wacol Brisbane and spoke to staff some were ex British screws, when I was there and they said the pay and conditions were great, plenty of staff, nowhere near as many assaults on screws, or disturbances as there are in UK prisons.

[Guest liddell92]

A million people have lost their jobs here in the UK over the last few years and the unemployment figures have just dropped slightly over recent months which is good news, but the good well paid jobs that have been lost are being replaced by not so great jobs, with poor pay, little or no pensions and it's a sign of the times.

 

Ok, in economics the world over, traditionally MEDC's usually have a recession every 30 or so years and that has been proven. i just see this moment in time in the UK as something which is supposed to happen, its just a cycle as there is a balance of jobs and wages being over turned to slowly once again in 10 years time to Boom again. i just wanted to point out, ok the UK is struggling with unemployment at the moment but things will change just like Australia at the moment, that change is beginning to happen.:yes:

[Guest]

Hoffy,

 

Life really isnt all sunshine and roses in the job front here you know! There have been thousands of jobs list since Can Do Newman DID! Funding has been smashed to nursing homes resulting in less money available to provide care for the elderly. Nurses jobs have been "reduced" in rural communities. Fireman jobs cut here in QLD , "front line" workers that were assured of job safety have gone!

Money wise, I can say I am on slightly more than in the UK but here in private sector we are on MUCH less than the hospital staff. There are problems everywhere. Australia is not all hearts and flowers right now!

 

 

As a public sector worker in Victoria the savage cuts embarked upon by Newman up in QLD are pretty unnerving to behold. The Bailleu administration which runs Victoria has expressed a similar desire to "roll back the frontiers of the state" and I'm sure they're watching events up north with interest to see if they can get away with it politically. It does feel like Australia might be going the same way as the UK in trying to reduce deficits by slashing front-line services.

[VERYSTORMY]

Its just the same in the UK, only difference is the private prison screws in the UK are paid thousands less than us and they have crap pensions and their staffing levels are dangerously low, I was close to working for GEO in Wacol Brisbane and spoke to staff some were ex British screws, when I was there and they said the pay and conditions were great, plenty of staff, nowhere near as many assaults on screws, or disturbances as there are in UK prisons.

 

You should be careful about comparing pensions. Pretty much everyone here is in a super plan. After 4 years of paying into the best performing plan in Oz I have less in it than if I had just paid it into a bank savings account. Most people are going to be in a world of pain when it comes to retirement. Add in inflation and it is worth less in real terms than I have paid in. By the time I retire it is probably going to be worth about the cost of a few drinks. Nothing much can be done as if I pump more money in, it is just a bigger loss against inflation.

[VERYSTORMY]

You make some good valid points Rugby lad, just to clarify though, I'm not stuck somewhere I don't want to be, i have a great life here in the UK, life is really sweet for me, but it's not the same for a lot of people who are doing it tough here in the UK and like I have already said,it isn't easy anywhere, even Australia, but most of those migrating there and are members on here are skilled workers and can expect good pay when they get there once they find employment, which at the moment seems to be getting harder, but still better chance in Oz than the UK at present.

 

If someone is a tradesperson in the UK and unemployed then Oz is a good decision. But if they are working not so. There are loads of trades here that are underemployed. All the guys that go in my local are tradesmen all are employed but pretty much all struggling to get 3 days a week and worried about paying the mortgage. Most can't sell to downsize as house prices have come down a fair bit in the last 6 months and now have negative equity.

 

With mining catching a cold this is only going to worsen. Particularly in WA and QLD. Most mines are downscaling. Including gold. Not many are making redundancies but contractors are disappearing. That is a lot of staff as most mines have between 20-30% of personnel on contract basis. We are shedding all of ours which will be about 400 staff from 2000.

[flag of convenience]

Its going to get worse before it gets better! $500 million has been cut from Aged Care Funding. We had been given a new funding tool in order to claim for the care needs of our clients and the government has criticisied and penalised us for using it properly and claiming for what we do! Our funding has dramatically dropped where I work which in turn has a massive impact on staffing. Its madness!

Im just wondering how long it will be before the Newman government decides Aged Care nurses are dispensible against hospital staff.....

As I understood there was talk of bringing in numbers from The Philippines to meet the shortfalls as locals can't be retained due to poor wages. Have heard nothing more in the last six months or so.....

[flag of convenience]

You should be careful about comparing pensions. Pretty much everyone here is in a super plan. After 4 years of paying into the best performing plan in Oz I have less in it than if I had just paid it into a bank savings account. Most people are going to be in a world of pain when it comes to retirement. Add in inflation and it is worth less in real terms than I have paid in. By the time I retire it is probably going to be worth about the cost of a few drinks. Nothing much can be done as if I pump more money in, it is just a bigger loss against inflation.

 

Same here. I even topped my up some years ago only to see it fall hence lost many thousands. A system reliant on the market is dubious at best. Australia's meagre old age pension is means tested also so until I use up all my capital no joy there either.

I have found it to be the worst possible move coming to Australia in pension terms. Pretty much left to own devices to ensure a dcecent old age. Now if I had continued working in France I would have had some twenty three years behind me at this stage and well on the way to a more comfotable retirement.

[newjez]

The thing that strikes me as strange with super is that many people leave it in shares up to and beyond retirement. With a UK pension, generally 5 - 10 years before retirement the pension is slowly moved to a cash position to guard against sudden stock market corrections.

 

Same here. I even topped my up some years ago only to see it fall hence lost many thousands. A system reliant on the market is dubious at best. Australia's meagre old age pension is means tested also so until I use up all my capital no joy there either.

I have found it to be the worst possible move coming to Australia in pension terms. Pretty much left to own devices to ensure a dcecent old age. Now if I had continued working in France I would have had some twenty three years behind me at this stage and well on the way to a more comfotable retirement.

[MARYROSE02]

Same here. I even topped my up some years ago only to see it fall hence lost many thousands. A system reliant on the market is dubious at best. Australia's meagre old age pension is means tested also so until I use up all my capital no joy there either.

I have found it to be the worst possible move coming to Australia in pension terms. Pretty much left to own devices to ensure a dcecent old age. Now if I had continued working in France I would have had some twenty three years behind me at this stage and well on the way to a more comfotable retirement.

 

Are you sure that the French Government will be able to meet its pension commitments? I had a feeling that people there want to retire early on full pensions.

 

All countries are having problems paying for pensions. I know that at Royal Mail there has been constant uncertainty. I'm sure I also read about public sector employers who use increasingly large portions of their income just to pay for pensions.

 

All countries invest their pensions in the stock market, amongst other sectors, so there's no more reason to feel secure in the UK than there is in Australia. I made a mistake with one of my funds in Australia, taking money out of a capital guaranteed one and into international shares. I think my present employer funds are invested in mixed options and I could of course choose exclusively shares or exclusively capital guaranteed.

 

I am hoping my decision to pay extra years into my Royal Mail pension scheme was a good one.

 

I guess the bottom line is that, whether you live in Australia or the UK, the government expects you to fund your own retirement.

Edited September 15, 2012 by MARYROSE02

[flag of convenience]

Are you sure that the French Government will be able to meet its pension commitments? I had a feeling that people there want to retire early on full pensions.

 

All countries are having problems paying for pensions. I know that at Royal Mail there has been constant uncertainty. I'm sure I also read about public sector employers who use increasingly large portions of their income just to pay for pensions.

 

All countries invest their pensions in the stock market, amongst other sectors, so there's no more reason to feel secure in the UK than there is in Australia. I made a mistake with one of my funds in Australia, taking money out of a capital guaranteed one and into international shares. I think my present employer funds are invested in mixed options and I could of course choose exclusively shares or exclusively capital guaranteed.

 

I am hoping my decision to pay extra years into my Royal Mail pension scheme was a good one.

 

I guess the bottom line is that, whether you live in Australia or the UK, the government expects you to fund your own retirement.

 

Yes am pretty sure for my age but of course for those under fifty who knows? Naturally when we're younger we don't give too much thought about it. Somehow it slightly irritated me the French and European concern in general about their pension.

Much better and fairer system though. Why should a person be denied an aged pension if they have been frugal in the sense of saving money and having some means,only to be told they will be required to use up all their resources before getting the pittance paid out by the Australian Govt?

While someone who boozes it all away or spends it at will gets the pension. At least the Brit pension for now is not mean tested.

[flag of convenience]

The thing that strikes me as strange with super is that many people leave it in shares up to and beyond retirement. With a UK pension, generally 5 - 10 years before retirement the pension is slowly moved to a cash position to guard against sudden stock market corrections.

 

Can only speak in my case but the loss came about I guess five or so years ago and barely recovered. I did stop salary sacrificing some 40 % of my salary at the time. At that period I'd anticipated about ten years of working life.....It still wouldn't have been enough as hadn't done the years...so considered it plenty of time to move money into fixed funds...Now intend to stop earlier and see how it goes on a reduced amount.

[MARYROSE02]

The British pension may not be means tested but if you decide to retire to Australia, and other Commonwealth countries, it is certainly 'frozen'. It's all to save money isn't it? My dad worked all his life and served through WW2 from 1939 to 1945 but had he retired to OZ his pension would have been frozen, and when he got sick, he was expected to fund the bulk of the nursing home fees from his own capital. I'm sure it's much the same for nursing home fees in Australia but I don't know what happens to an Aussie's pension if he/she retires to the UK?

 

When I joined the Commonwealth Public Service in 1981, I only joined the pension scheme because it was compulsory and it never occurred to me to pay for the missing weeks when I took unpaid leave. When I was made redundant in 1996, I 'gambled' and opted to take an immediate pension, at a lower rate than if I'd waited until I was 55 or 60, But it has paid out every fortnight for the last sixteen years. If only it was $240 per week instead of fortnight. Still, now that I am back working for the Commonwealth, I get paid both weeks, salary one week, pension the next.

[Dan Collins]

Same here. I even topped my up some years ago only to see it fall hence lost many thousands. A system reliant on the market is dubious at best. Australia's meagre old age pension is means tested also so until I use up all my capital no joy there either.

I have found it to be the worst possible move coming to Australia in pension terms. Pretty much left to own devices to ensure a dcecent old age. Now if I had continued working in France I would have had some twenty three years behind me at this stage and well on the way to a more comfotable retirement.

 

You both make good points.

 

I hope that one day the pollies sort indexing between Australian & Britain. This link encourages me, but with the UK deficit to continue for some time...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/9519928/Britain-agrees-to-open-frozen-pension-talks-with-Australia.html though I wonder.

 

I think the Australian pension system though, is a pretty fair supplementary state benefit by comparison to other countries. Don't get me wrong, live on the Aged Pension alone, and I can assure you it won't be enough. Top up with super and you're starting to look at a reasonable retirement. I'm encouraged by the huge difference I've seen in pensions over the years in Australia. The reality is that a boy born in Britain had a life expectancy of 40.2 in 1841, now it's projected to be 78.8 in 2020!

 

No wonder Treasurers around the world are worried. You could hand out this state benefit years ago without probs, as people only lived a short time. Something had to change and is one reason the Aus government is better than most right now.

 

This change in Aus started back in 1992 when the SGC system of compulsory employer contributions kick started personal savings. Unless you worked for a bank or the government, the average person had to rely solely on the state benefits. Now with SGC growing to 12% by 2020, that lifestyle will improve for a person living in Aus. The UK starts an opt out equivalent scheme only next month - 20 years later. That will be the start of better things to come, I hope, in the UK, but it will take more than a generation to have an effect.

 

Without SGC, maybe the Aus pension might be higher than right now. Who knows?

 

Little do people know that the bones of the Aged Pension in Aus, actually started on a state by state basis before the UK pension system. It is though, very different to the UK one. It is a non-contributory pension, meaning you don't need X years to qualify. It also cuts out when your assets (excluding the home) exceed a certain level. This means if you're Sir Bufton Tufton and mummy left you with 'just' $30 million, you wouldn't get an Aged Pension in Australia, but you would get a State Pension in the UK. Some in the UK argue that even the wealthy should get a pension, to ensure they remain 'interested' in the pension system. Yes, I nearly drove through a red light when I heard a 'socialist' in fact say that on Radio 4 last month!

 

Coming back to my point, the means test in Aus is a reasonable supplementary state benefit. It seems to work well, as even if your very comfortable, you're most likely to get something. Even a concession card has good benefits. You must though, generally, meet the two means tests at your Aged Pension Age:

 

Assets Test

You have more $232,500 but less than $1,032,500 in assets (excluding the home). The benefit shades out completely at $1,032,500

 

Income Test

You 'earn' less than $268 (couple) per fortnight. Additional income is reduced by 50 cents less in pension for each dollar over $268.

 

When you calculate the two benefits, the lower Aged Pension outcome 'wins'. Most often people under the new system, which changed about 2006, come out as 'income tested' in some if they have a high level level of super. Even though $268 pf looks tight, don't be misled, as there is a method by which they judge 'income' from bank accounts, allocated pensions etc, that means actual income can be higher. It is not straight forward but can be worked out with Centrelink easily enough. The above is a quick guide only, so check out http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/age-pension

 

What will you get?

 

up to $1048.20 pf (combined) or £26,253 pa, but less if you are single.

 

It might seem a lot to people reading this in the UK, but when taking into account living expenses, means a top up pension is certainly needed. If you rely solely on the Aus government with your retirement, you will have a tough life, same as you would in Britain - ok, maybe not in France but cost of living will vary there though it will be warmer.

 

It seems harsh to rely on people to save extra, but the SGC system will make more of a difference to the young and future generations. Employers weren't impressed at the time about it, but it is actually now doing a lot to improve the lives in Aus. I'm hoping Britain's system works in the same way, though here (UK) you must personally contribute to the pension and the employer is expected to put out 3%, not 9-12% as in Aus. Unless a person has very large financial resources in Australia, most are likely to get something reasonable from the government. That's my experience as a financial planner in Australia. Maybe a full entitlement even; if they live long enough to reach the Aged Pension age.

 

But that's another thread in that one...

 

Cheers

[flag of convenience]

The British pension may not be means tested but if you decide to retire to Australia, and other Commonwealth countries, it is certainly 'frozen'. It's all to save money isn't it? My dad worked all his life and served through WW2 from 1939 to 1945 but had he retired to OZ his pension would have been frozen, and when he got sick, he was expected to fund the bulk of the nursing home fees from his own capital. I'm sure it's much the same for nursing home fees in Australia but I don't know what happens to an Aussie's pension if he/she retires to the UK?

 

When I joined the Commonwealth Public Service in 1981, I only joined the pension scheme because it was compulsory and it never occurred to me to pay for the missing weeks when I took unpaid leave. When I was made redundant in 1996, I 'gambled' and opted to take an immediate pension, at a lower rate than if I'd waited until I was 55 or 60, But it has paid out every fortnight for the last sixteen years. If only it was $240 per week instead of fortnight. Still, now that I am back working for the Commonwealth, I get paid both weeks, salary one week, pension the next.

 

The British penssionis frozen in Australia and New Zealand but not all Commonwealth countries. I believe it is paid in the West Indies while it is paid in The Philippines it is not in Thailand. Really makes little sense. Australia ceased the one saided agreement in about 2001 I understand.

So in my case I could get an Aussie pension in Germany or France but not UK. I imagine that would mean the UK would pay a person in my position the bare minimun payment.Providing of course I had returned to habitualy reside in UK. An unlikely prospect I feel but who knows. France, Germany or even Malta are far more appealing at this time but who knows?

[flag of convenience]

You both make good points.

 

I hope that one day the pollies sort indexing between Australian & Britain. This link encourages me, but with the UK deficit to continue for some time...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/9519928/Britain-agrees-to-open-frozen-pension-talks-with-Australia.html though I wonder.

 

I think the Australian pension system though, is a pretty fair supplementary state benefit by comparison to other countries. Don't get me wrong, live on the Aged Pension alone, and I can assure you it won't be enough. Top up with super and you're starting to look at a reasonable retirement. I'm encouraged by the huge difference I've seen in pensions over the years in Australia. The reality is that a boy born in Britain had a life expectancy of 40.2 in 1841, now it's projected to be 78.8 in 2020!

 

No wonder Treasurers around the world are worried. You could hand out this state benefit years ago without probs, as people only lived a short time. Something had to change and is one reason the Aus government is better than most right now.

 

This change in Aus started back in 1992 when the SGC system of compulsory employer contributions kick started personal savings. Unless you worked for a bank or the government, the average person had to rely solely on the state benefits. Now with SGC growing to 12% by 2020, that lifestyle will improve for a person living in Aus. The UK starts an opt out equivalent scheme only next month - 20 years later. That will be the start of better things to come, I hope, in the UK, but it will take more than a generation to have an effect.

 

Without SGC, maybe the Aus pension might be higher than right now. Who knows?

 

Little do people know that the bones of the Aged Pension in Aus, actually started on a state by state basis before the UK pension system. It is though, very different to the UK one. It is a non-contributory pension, meaning you don't need X years to qualify. It also cuts out when your assets (excluding the home) exceed a certain level. This means if you're Sir Bufton Tufton and mummy left you with 'just' $30 million, you wouldn't get an Aged Pension in Australia, but you would get a State Pension in the UK. Some in the UK argue that even the wealthy should get a pension, to ensure they remain 'interested' in the pension system. Yes, I nearly drove through a red light when I heard a 'socialist' in fact say that on Radio 4 last month!

 

Coming back to my point, the means test in Aus is a reasonable supplementary state benefit. It seems to work well, as even if your very comfortable, you're most likely to get something. Even a concession card has good benefits. You must though, generally, meet the two means tests at your Aged Pension Age:

 

Assets Test

You have more $232,500 but less than $1,032,500 in assets (excluding the home). The benefit shades out completely at $1,032,500

 

Income Test

You 'earn' less than $268 (couple) per fortnight. Additional income is reduced by 50 cents less in pension for each dollar over $268.

 

When you calculate the two benefits, the lower Aged Pension outcome 'wins'. Most often people under the new system, which changed about 2006, come out as 'income tested' in some if they have a high level level of super. Even though $268 pf looks tight, don't be misled, as there is a method by which they judge 'income' from bank accounts, allocated pensions etc, that means actual income can be higher. It is not straight forward but can be worked out with Centrelink easily enough. The above is a quick guide only, so check out http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/age-pension

 

What will you get?

 

up to $1048.20 pf (combined) or £26,253 pa, but less if you are single.

 

It might seem a lot to people reading this in the UK, but when taking into account living expenses, means a top up pension is certainly needed. If you rely solely on the Aus government with your retirement, you will have a tough life, same as you would in Britain - ok, maybe not in France but cost of living will vary there though it will be warmer.

 

It seems harsh to rely on people to save extra, but the SGC system will make more of a difference to the young and future generations. Employers weren't impressed at the time about it, but it is actually now doing a lot to improve the lives in Aus. I'm hoping Britain's system works in the same way, though here (UK) you must personally contribute to the pension and the employer is expected to put out 3%, not 9-12% as in Aus. Unless a person has very large financial resources in Australia, most are likely to get something reasonable from the government. That's my experience as a financial planner in Australia. Maybe a full entitlement even; if they live long enough to reach the Aged Pension age.

 

But that's another thread in that one...

 

Cheers

 

I suppose one could argue that the Australian Aged Pension is one of the few egalitarian things remaining in place. I mean in the sense all are paid the same rate regardless of time spent in the workforce. It isn't really of course as those in position will have far more than aged pension entitlements which basicly is paid at survival rates and nothing more.

In Europe we were clear on the time needed to work to qualify for a comfortable retirement. Important to make sure the last years were well paid. I suspect the UK will adopt Australia's system at some stage of mean testing due to the pure economics of the matter.

 

In Australia now you have a situation where folk need to live in Bali or similar to live a life that allows some quality due to the inflated expense of living in Australia. There are plans to expand this awareness further with the construction of retirement settlements in Bali ..a mixture of Australian business and Bali/Indonesian official co operation.

[Johndoe]

In Australia now you have a situation where folk need to live in Bali or similar to live a life that allows some quality due to the inflated expense of living in Australia.

 

What a load of tosh! We've been here 18 yrs.......................managed on one income with minimum of two kids...............sometimes 9 kids......................have (already) $750k in my wife's superann, no mortgage, with at least (her wish) 10 more working years ahead of her, and the subsequent superann contributions...........why would I need to live in Bali? Anyone who does, has either not provided for their future, overspent, or is just plain doodleally.

[Dan Collins]

We'll have to disagree on living in Bali, things have improved dramatically for the average working person in retirement. I don't think Bali beckons for younger folk with 30-40 years of super contributions, except maybe for a holiday.

 

I do agree that the UK will adopt more of the Aussie system, but only in time. They need to get everyone over this first major step of self-provision, having not even moved away from defined benefit pensions as yet, which did occur in Australia in the 90s. Add in the pension 'mis-selling scandals' and breaches of trust by financial institutions (still), and maybe it's no wonder it will take much longer to make that change.

 

Knowing both pension systems well, I think the move to 12% contributions in Aus will almost reach self-provision and something to leave your kids when you're gone.

[Guest guest68546]

What a load of tosh! We've been here 18 yrs.......................managed on one income with minimum of two kids...............sometimes 9 kids......................have (already) $750k in my wife's superann, no mortgage, with at least (her wish) 10 more working years ahead of her, and the subsequent superann contributions...........why would I need to live in Bali? Anyone who does, has either not provided for their future, overspent, or is just plain doodleally.

 

Having no mortgage makes a substantial difference in so many ways.

[flag of convenience]

What a load of tosh! We've been here 18 yrs.......................managed on one income with minimum of two kids...............sometimes 9 kids......................have (already) $750k in my wife's superann, no mortgage, with at least (her wish) 10 more working years ahead of her, and the subsequent superann contributions...........why would I need to live in Bali? Anyone who does, has either not provided for their future, overspent, or is just plain doodleally.

 

Not sure what you find a lot of tosh. The fact that folk do move to Bali ..or that you would have no need to move to Bali yourself? Whatever the plans are afoot to build retirement homes in Bali with the ageing Australian community in mind.

There are many folk of pension age that have been unable to build up anywhere near a satisfactory sum to live in comfort on in Australia. That is fact and the old age pension that not go very far ....

Your wife having $750,000 bin super would be in the higher range. That would be far from typical I would suggest,but more power to her for being in a position to do so.