johnjinky Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Recently. It's obvious where you're going with this but it's redundant; the principle remains: each migration situation is going to be different. It helps nobody to start saying you need at least $100k income, because that's simply not true. Many people, even families, have coped with far less. You may have decided you need $100k+ yourself, and good for you if that's the case. But it's not the case for many others, and the cost of living doesn't demand it, so with all due respect, you'd be doing potential migrants a better service if you were to be less dogmatic over what is always a subjective issue. I've seen it said on here by people who are moving here...they would rather be skint here and sit on the beach than be in uk and be skint....WHY its a myth people dont do that you cant live in a view .......i feel so glad i came here for the experiance it has made me a better person but it really does make me wonder about people moving here for totally the wrong reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlefoot Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 yes but what hes saying is that to have any decent quality of life that is the figure you need... And my point is that "quality of life" is subjective! It's not for any one person to declare what anyone else needs before they can be happy in Australia. For all we know, an income of $100k+ might provide the guy with a lifestyle that includes things that are completely irrelevant to whether a third person is happy or not. You don't need that sort of money just to cover rent/mortgage, bills & a few meals out, and for many, that's all they need. In fact, the older I get the more I see that the people with the most are often the people who most struggle to find happiness - just an observation. i too have a decent wage paying over hundred grand and it goes like water...the majority of people move here for a better life.me included but because of the cost of living its impossible Oh come on, the cost of living isn't over $100k a year, and you know it. If your money goes like water it's because you spend a lot out of choice. And again - "more money" doesn't necessarily mean "a better life". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav71 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Financial issues will obviously depend on your income. There are huge salary ranges depending on profession and of course whether you are working in public / private sector. Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) AYou don't need that sort of money just to cover rent/mortgage, bills & a few meals out, and for many, that's all they need. In fact, the older I get the more I see that the people with the most are often the people who most struggle to find happiness - just an observation..... Oh come on, the cost of living isn't over $100k a year, and you know it. If your money goes like water it's because you spend a lot out of choice. And again - "more money" doesn't necessarily mean "a better life". I think you're being as dogmatic as those you are criticising tbh, in suggesting that $100K is an income that provides all with the possibility of picking and choosing their luxuries. $100K a year gross really isn't a lot of money if you are living in Sydney with a family (say two kids of school age) on a 457. You'll be paying $34K+ a year on rent, $10K on school fees and ancillary costs, $5K (say) on bills including insurance, $15K (say) on groceries/household stuff like cleaning things That's $64K out of your taxed income on absolute essentials - we haven't even got to transport, clothes, healthcare or any sort of entertainment or anything else yet. How much does $100K gross get you net these days? About $75K? (total guess, I don't know). That's really not a lot of money left over, is it? OK, so Sydney is more expensive than anywhere else, for housing which is the biggest cost. And there are people living in Sydney on less than that (people on here living in Sydney on less than that). Not many of them are paying the $650 a week that realistically is the minimum most have to pay here for somewhere decent to live when they first come over. Edited August 19, 2012 by northshorepom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1977 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I think you're being as dogmatic as those you are criticising tbh, in suggesting that $100K is an income that provides all with the possibility of picking and choosing their luxuries. $100K a year gross really isn't a lot of money if you are living in Sydney with a family (say two kids of school age) on a 457. You'll be paying $34K+ a year on rent, $10K on school fees and ancillary costs, $5K (say) on bills including insurance, $15K (say) on groceries/household stuff like cleaning things That's $64K out of your taxed income on absolute essentials - we haven't even got to transport, clothes, healthcare or any sort of entertainment or anything else yet. How much does $100K gross get you net these days? About $75K? (total guess, I don't know). That's really not a lot of money left over, is it? OK, so Sydney is more expensive than anywhere else, for housing which is the biggest cost. And there are people living in Sydney on less than that (people on here living in Sydney on less than that). Not many of them are paying the $650 a week that realistically is the minimum most have to pay here for somewhere decent to live when they first come over. I agree but people won't believe you...! Let people come over on 80000 and see what they think then, I'm sure it will be ok as the sun always shines here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fallguy Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I think you're being as dogmatic as those you are criticising tbh, in suggesting that $100K is an income that provides all with the possibility of picking and choosing their luxuries. $100K a year gross really isn't a lot of money if you are living in Sydney with a family (say two kids of school age) on a 457. You'll be paying $34K+ a year on rent, $10K on school fees and ancillary costs, $5K (say) on bills including insurance, $15K (say) on groceries/household stuff like cleaning things That's $64K out of your taxed income on absolute essentials - we haven't even got to transport, clothes, healthcare or any sort of entertainment or anything else yet. How much does $100K gross get you net these days? About $75K? (total guess, I don't know). That's really not a lot of money left over, is it? OK, so Sydney is more expensive than anywhere else, for housing which is the biggest cost. And there are people living in Sydney on less than that (people on here living in Sydney on less than that). Not many of them are paying the $650 a week that realistically is the minimum most have to pay here for somewhere decent to live when they first come over. I may be wrong but when I was on over $100000 here I was in the 41% tax bracket... which leaves approx $59000 take home before bills! We are in a good place with no mortgage & $140000 a year between us with no kids, theres not much left for 'luxuries' I promise you, thats one of the reasons we are heading home. If you have the itch for adventure, you must try it because you will always feel 'what if' but it is not treasure island at the moment, especially with the weak Pound!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 yes but what hes saying is that to have any decent quality of life that is the figure you need So pray tell, what is 'decent quality of life?' I have no mortgage, but even taking that into consideration, I have a fantastic "quality of life" on 85k (family of four) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I've seen it said on here by people who are moving here...they would rather be skint here and sit on the beach than be in uk and be skint....WHY its a myth people dont do that you cant live in a view .......i feel so glad i came here for the experiance it has made me a better person but it really does make me wonder about people moving here for totally the wrong reasons And you think it has made you a "better person"? :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I may be wrong but when I was on over $100000 here I was in the 41% tax bracket... which leaves approx $59000 take home before bills! Yeah, but that's your marginal rate, isn't it? You don't pay 41% of your total, it's a lot less than that I just checked fwiw, and a gross income of $102K ($8500 per month gross) results in a net income of $74.5K. Heck, I'm good. What a guess :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I may be wrong but when I was on over $100000 here I was in the 41% tax bracket... which leaves approx $59000 take home before bills! You want to find a new accountant if thats what you was left with..... $100,000 per year, will give you $73,500 after tax in Oz http://www.paycalculator.com.au/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 WTF do you people spend your money on?????????????????? I'm happy with Chateaux de Carboard Box @ $9 for 5 litres.............and the odd "happy carton" of squid rings and chips...................keeeping up with those Jones's, be they australian of Pommy, can lead to a downfall in integrity of assertions, and lengthy complaints on migrant forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlefoot Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) I think you're being as dogmatic as those you are criticising tbh, in suggesting that $100K is an income that provides all with the possibility of picking and choosing their luxuries. That's not what I've said. My point is that 'quality of life' is so subjective that somebody declaring that a family who earns less than a six figure income will struggle isn't actually saying anything, at least not without providing more information. Without knowing what lifestyle paul1977 has become accustomed to (the minimum he would personally call a 'quality life') and how much money he is spending on each aspect of that, his comments are essentially meaningless and smack of somebody deciding that his position equates to the experience of everyone else. Not remotely so. A family earning less will live within their means if they really want to be in Australia, and migrants with a grip will understand that sacrifices will need to be made as they re-establish themselves in a new country. Adjustments will be made financially to see a desired lifestyle, just like they are in the UK $100K a year gross really isn't a lot of money if you are living in Sydney with a family (say two kids of school age) on a 457. You'll be paying $34K+ a year on rent, $10K on school fees and ancillary costs, $5K (say) on bills including insurance, $15K (say) on groceries/household stuff like cleaning things Firstly that's a different scenario than the one we were initially discussing, and coming up with figures off the top of your head like that is always a bit dubious. Just like everywhere else in the world, and the majority of the 22 million Aussies who already live in the country, life can be tough financially. Some stuff costs more in Australia, other things are cheaper. It's for each individual to look at their realistic income and expenditure, and decide whether the journey is worth it for them, not for anyone else to wheel out their soapbox and announce that anyone who isn't earning as much as him is going to struggle. It's that kind of unhelpful pessimism that many migrants go to Australia to try and escape! there are people living in Sydney on less than that (people on here living in Sydney on less than that). Not many of them are paying the $650 a week that realistically is the minimum most have to pay here for somewhere decent to live when they first come over. Same problem here as well - you're using a concept of 'decent' you've decided for yourself and projecting it on everyone else. Why not let people make up their own mind what constitutes an acceptable living standard? Everyone knows the start of the journey in a new country will be the toughest chapter in many respects. People are kept afloat by the sense of adventure, the excitement of somewhere new, the sense of potential and opportunity, and ideally, the support of family and friends, old and new. What certainly doesn't help is the naysayers who are quick to dampen things like a hotter climate and lecture everyone on dodgy home economics based on personal preferences. I've said enough on this, so I'll close with this post. In retrospect, this part of the forum is bound to be more biased against Australia. I hope my argument hasn't fallen on deaf ears as far as prospective migrants go, even though it appears to have done for some here. Edited August 19, 2012 by littlefoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 To the OP,sorry its been so wet where you are,we've had some very nice weather where I am!(South West).Its much better in my opinion to live reality,not a dream.I've read most of the posts on this thread,and obviously everyone's experiences are different.Some websites can give you a greater understanding of what people are talking about.The real estate websites,the supermarket ones(do a virtual online shop yourself),travel ones(people living in Oz as a rule don't generally travel outside of Australia for annual holidays,alot of people, if they can afford it, do it as a one off when they retire),go on Ebay Australia or Gumtree.au for second hand cars.You can ask advice until the cows come home,but the truth is in the websites.Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Perhaps I was naive, well no 'perhaps' about it, but when I came here in 1978 I did not care a fig about all these financial considerations. Sure it was expensive, the FX rate was worse than it is now, and I struggled to get a job, but the bottom line was that I loved Australia from the moment I got off the ship in Fremantle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjinky Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 And my point is that "quality of life" is subjective! It's not for any one person to declare what anyone else needs before they can be happy in Australia. For all we know, an income of $100k+ might provide the guy with a lifestyle that includes things that are completely irrelevant to whether a third person is happy or not. You don't need that sort of money just to cover rent/mortgage, bills & a few meals out, and for many, that's all they need. In fact, the older I get the more I see that the people with the most are often the people who most struggle to find happiness - just an observation. Oh come on, the cost of living isn't over $100k a year, and you know it. If your money goes like water it's because you spend a lot out of choice. And again - "more money" doesn't necessarily mean "a better life". so i am lying your right i do know it as i live here you don't..without going into my own personal details i earn over 100 grand a year my wife earns around 40..i smoke none of us drink we out out around once a month and i swear to god thats it..with stuff for school car maintanence medical fees dentist fees etc etc...i am not slagging australia off before anyone has a go by the way im just telling you my experiance n trying to shed a bit of truth onto the situation.i could never dream of making the kind of money i have here in the uk but its just a circle...the more the earn the more it costs to live... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea4too Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The thread title is ‘Reasons to leave Oz’ and as it has been posted in MBTTUK I sort of assumed that it was aimed at those who have returned, or were planning to return to the UK. A fair proportion of returnees will have struggled in one way or another and by asking them to share their experience the OP is widening his research. If he just wanted to know how much he will need to live on in Australia, or what constitutes a decent standard of living, the thread might have been better suited to a different part of the forum. No-one has to agree with everything that is written and I can see why people challenge posts they consider exaggerated or misleading, but people returning to the UK have their own experiences that are worth sharing. Even trivial stuff can become an enormous ‘last straw’ when the deck seems stacked against you, and maybe it’s helpful to know the sort of things some people have struggled with. Whether they are right, wrong, in the majority or minority is all irrelevant to an extent. It’s their experience, and the OP asked about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) That's not what I've said. My point is that 'quality of life' is so subjective that somebody declaring that a family who earns less than a six figure income will struggle isn't actually saying anything, at least not without providing more information. Without knowing what lifestyle paul1977 has become accustomed to (the minimum he would personally call a 'quality life') and how much money he is spending on each aspect of that, his comments are essentially meaningless and smack of somebody deciding that his position equates to the experience of everyone else. Not remotely so. The point on which you were being dogmatic is where you assumed that anyone on a six figure sum is merely juggling with which luxuries they prefer. I was pointing out that on that sort of money in quite a few places here, you don't really have much money for luxuries A family earning less will live within their means if they really want to be in Australia, and migrants with a grip will understand that sacrifices will need to be made as they re-establish themselves in a new country. Adjustments will be made financially to see a desired lifestyle, just like they are in the UK Again, you are being dogmatic and appear totally unable to see things from the other side. Doing it tough for a while is something YOU are prepared to do, therefore you have assumed everyone should have to do it. Lots of people come here to be better off because that's what they think they will be. If they have a good lifestyle in the UK and give it up and find they are actually worse off, I don't think it's surprising that that can frustrate them. Lots of people don't see why they should have to make sacrifices. That's not what they expected Firstly that's a different scenario than the one we were initially discussing Not really. The issue at point was whether or not $100K represented a no worries level of income. In many places it is, in others it isn't , and coming up with figures off the top of your head like that is always a bit dubious. Not really again. They are totally realistic figures for living in Sydney. $650 a week is pretty average for an average family house, you can pay anything up to $1500 a week for an average house in the poshe areas and won't really get anything for less than $500 anywhere - and that's likely to involve a long commute. The school fees are fixed and absolute figures. I was being conservative on the bills and groceries. So where do you have a problem? Just like everywhere else in the world, and the majority of the 22 million Aussies who already live in the country, life can be tough financially. Some stuff costs more in Australia, other things are cheaper. It's for each individual to look at their realistic income and expenditure, and decide whether the journey is worth it for them, not for anyone else to wheel out their soapbox and announce that anyone who isn't earning as much as him is going to struggle. It's that kind of unhelpful pessimism that many migrants go to Australia to try and escape! I agree, but again I will turn this round and say it's not for anyone to wheel out their soapbox and say if you have a family income of $100K you'll be well off. You might well not be. It's that kind of blind optimism that many migrants could do without if they aren't going to be in for a nasty surprise Same problem here as well - you're using a concept of 'decent' you've decided for yourself and projecting it on everyone else. No, I am not. You will struggle to get any sort of family house here for less than $500 a week and that will involve a lengthy commute. $650 a week is actually pretty cheap. Where I live )admittedly not a cheap area, but neither is it very central - 20km out from CBD) $650 gets you a 2 bed unit, a 3 bed townhouse starts at $800 and a 3 bed free standing house starts at about $900. That's reality Why not let people make up their own mind what constitutes an acceptable living standard? Please, get off your high horse. We are pointing out the economic realities of a situation we understand as people with families and you don't Everyone knows the start of the journey in a new country will be the toughest chapter in many respects. People are kept afloat by the sense of adventure, the excitement of somewhere new, the sense of potential and opportunity, and ideally, the support of family and friends, old and new. See, this is YOU projecting. YOU have decided that doing it tough for a while is what everyone should accept and hey, as it's part of this great adventure that's fair enough. That's fine for many, including many families. But not all. Some have the view, quite reasonably, that to uproot their family for a "better life" that means being better off. Why is this so wrong for you? I've said enough on this, so I'll close with this post. In retrospect, this part of the forum is bound to be more biased against Australia. I hope my argument hasn't fallen on deaf ears as far as prospective migrants go, even though it appears to have done for some here. My major issues with your arguments are twofold: Firstly as a single person, you have no idea how it is different for someone with a family. Making decisions on your own behalf is a piece of cake, worrying about the safety, welfare, wellbeing of others is a completely different story. As a singleton you can afford to make bigger mistakes, you can live in a shared house on baked beans if you have to and so on. It is a much, much bigger decision coming over here with a family, particularly if you actually have a live that is comfortable at home. It's a lot to risk Secondly you appear completely unable to see things from the other side. You accuse others of projecting but are guilty of doing exactly the same yourself. From a position of ignorance, that grates Edited August 19, 2012 by northshorepom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Perhaps I was naive, well no 'perhaps' about it, but when I came here in 1978 I did not care a fig about all these financial considerations. Sure it was expensive, the FX rate was worse than it is now, and I struggled to get a job, but the bottom line was that I loved Australia from the moment I got off the ship in Fremantle. I'll try and spell this out in simple words Dave: You are now, and were then, single. It makes ALL the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcorners Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The $100k argument is quite interesting. I earn $120k, and my partner earns the same. We have no children, and I would say we are very well off on combined $240k. We live off my wage, and spend $2k a month on rent, about $1000 on food, $1400 on our car repayments and about $300 on bills/fuel. That leaves me about $1300 per month spare for savings, unexpected costs and luxuries. So, then I imagined that my OH didn't have a wage, and we had 3 children. All of a sudden, my wage only just gets us by. We would spend more on food, possibly more on rent, and probably more on bills. That would leave less money for contingencies, and it would take a long time to save up enough for a trip back to the UK for a family of 5. And I don't even live in a major city, so I actually spend less on fuel (work provides transport), never pay for parking, gym fees are all cheaper etc. Some of my friends recently left and moved back to the UK. They had been here for 5 years and had come here with the aim of saving money whilst getting good work experience. They achieved the latter, but certainly not the former. Both worked full time until 18 months ago when they had their first child. They were living off $100k per year and left Australia with more debt than when they arrived. During the 5 years here they had two holidays back to the UK, one holiday to Bali for their honeymoon and had a couple of trips to Melbourne for the formula 1. They had one car, two dogs and had bought a house here. Whilst some of their financial choices haven't been great, they are probably pretty average. They've gone back to SE England to a wage of £42k and seem to be doing ok, their standard of living is about the same as it was here. At least now their daughter can get to know her grandparents/cousins/aunties/uncles etc. For us, it's very worthwhile being here as we can save so much. But I know that isn't the case for so many others. I for one wouldn't move here without the financial incentives of our particular situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fallguy Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Yes clever cloggs, but I did'nt state exactly HOW much over the $100000 dollars I earned, because it was unimportant & my calculation was approximate for a worse case scenario. Believe me I WAS in the 41% tax bracket & the deductions you talk about are not that great unless I am doing something wrong...I have, after all only been Sub-contracting for 28 years. Yeah, but that's your marginal rate, isn't it? You don't pay 41% of your total, it's a lot less than that I just checked fwiw, and a gross income of $102K ($8500 per month gross) results in a net income of $74.5K. Heck, I'm good. What a guess :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest popps Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I think you'll have a great time! - Its hard being away from friends and family at first, but you get used to it. I love the lifestyle here and the weather. People are very positive too. Yes maybe the job isnt in the centre of the world, but I find that the communities that are further out are very self sufficient and as the life is so different here, its not like being far out of town in UK, because life is more outdoors, there are different things to do that you just dont do in the UK. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheArmChairDetective Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 If you are going to struggle to make a living/make ends meet, you may as well do it where your roots lie rather than the other side of the world where you dont have the same network. This is only my opinion (as my folks are not getting any younger & have some small issues) & feel it safe to say on behalf of both the English & the Aussies.:jiggy: I'm sure your right, and this probably figured in your research before you migrated? So did you migrate intending to return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fallguy Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sorry to say I was'nt that thorough with my research, I suppose over 6 years ago my folks were in better health & my (older) brother was still in the UK, which relieved any guilt. Now that my older brother has moved over to Oz, there is only my youngest brother (who struggles to look after himself) there, and he still feels its his parents job to look after him even though he is forty!! I never migrated with the intention to return, but we are at a crossroads as to weather to move to Gold Coast where my bro is or return to UK, as we have not really settled in Perth. We decided on UK but have not ruled out returning to OZ in the future as end of the day, for what it costs for two visits back 'home', will get us & a container back permanently. I'm sure your right, and this probably figured in your research before you migrated?So did you migrate intending to return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 WTF do you people spend your money on?????????????????? I'm happy with Chateaux de Carboard Box @ $9 for 5 litres.............and the odd "happy carton" of squid rings and chips...................keeeping up with those Jones's, be they australian of Pommy, can lead to a downfall in integrity of assertions, and lengthy complaints on migrant forums God, you're easily pleased. BBQ wine, deep-fried elastic bands and polystyrene Australian chips. Maybe that's what's needed to be a successful immigrant in this country, being happy with less?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheArmChairDetective Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 God, you're easily pleased. BBQ wine, deep-fried elastic bands and polystyrene Australian chips. Maybe that's what's needed to be a successful immigrant in this country, being happy with less?. Hey come back to the UK and be happier with even less than that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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