lebourvellec Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Don't kid yourself................there's always unscrupulous employers looking for cheap labour Correct - but the 457 visa stipulates that employers must pay market rates and there is a threshold salary of $49,300. From personal experiance some employers try to cheat this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Caveman feel free to PM me this guys name, DOB and current address. If you do this I will for the benefit of all intrested in wether its legal or Illegal have an answer by the end of next week and at the same time solve your dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fabricator Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 After all the comments i think the best thing to do would be a , tell him you dont want any come back on you and thus he should leave b , let him search for a job and if / when he comes home one day bragging that he's got a job then Boom !! DIAC will be waiting for him on the morning he starts his new job .. I do sympathise with you bud , , we only know half the story . as said he is allowed to look , report if he does obtain any work.. lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Sounds Personal to me rather than a moral feeling, a bit petty really, I say let them get on with it, whatever work they are offered isnt going to be regular anyway, probably the kind of work none of us want to do anyway but at least it keeps that person in a place that makes them happy, watching the sun go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It is against the conditions to seek to be simultaneously employed and not hold a visa that permits work. The behaviour you are describing is someone who is seeking to become simultaneously employed and on a sponsored work visa. Nothing wrong with that. You don't need the work visa until you start The tourist visa is for what it says on the tin.....to be a tourist, if this bloke has no intention to be a tourist or be visiting family or friends then the tourist visa is not the right one for them. Here is a line from the Aus immi website for tourist visas 'You must have a genuine intention to visit Australia as a tourist, for recreation or to visit your family and friends.' Pretty clear I think, now weather or not you would say/do anything, suppose only the OP can make that decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It's not clear cut. Basically, you can do what you want on a tourist visa except earn money or set up businesses (or get involved in crime, rabble rousing, appearing on TV making politically inflamatory comments, etc.). You can even do voluntary work if you want. Plenty of aspiring migrants come to Australia on tourist visas to do a recce or try to set things up and this doesn't cause DIAC any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockDr Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 There is a business visitor version of the eta visa, for: "attending educational or business related meetings, seminars, conventions, conferences, or networking; informal studies or training." Looking for work could be classed as networking I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's not clear cut. Basically, you can do what you want on a tourist visa except earn money or set up businesses (or get involved in crime, rabble rousing, appearing on TV making politically inflamatory comments, etc.). You can even do voluntary work if you want. Plenty of aspiring migrants come to Australia on tourist visas to do a recce or try to set things up and this doesn't cause DIAC any problems. Actually it is clear cut law -wise , but it is not made clear education wise. Tourist visas are for tourist purposes and family visits. Do anything else related to employment, work inluding volunteer, or business, and DIAC can cancel your tourist visa. Other visas exist or job search, business research, selling stuff, volunteer work, religious activity, in fact at present there are a many dozens of separate visas for almost every type of activity and are often labelled as such eg religious visitor, entertainer, medical visits etc. Makes it easier for statistically tracking visitor activities if only people used the right visa! The issue is DIAC are crap at telling people exactly what to apply for. The DIAC website homepage should have a clear statement about not using student or tourist visas for other than study or tourism/.family. And the visa lable should include warnings. Without that it is easy to see why so many get it wrong. For one person to do it deliberately it's a minor crime. More 100,000 to do it, it is a dilemma. The problem is, dilemmas ae made up of thousands of minor crimes and hence the individual should be warned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Actually it is clear cut law -wise , but it is not made clear education wise. Tourist visas are for tourist purposes and family visits. Do anything else related to employment, work inluding volunteer, or business, and DIAC can cancel your tourist visa. With respect, that's horse****. The DIAC website expressly says you can do voluntary work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeorgeD Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Actually it is clear cut law -wise , but it is not made clear education wise. Tourist visas are for tourist purposes and family visits. Do anything else related to employment, work inluding volunteer, or business, and DIAC can cancel your tourist visa. And yet the DIAC website says this about the eVisitor visa [h=2]Who is eVisitor for?[/h]An eVisitor is designed for people who are outside Australia and want to visit Australia for tourism or business purposes. Tourism includes holidays, recreation and seeing family and/or friends. Business purposes may include attending a conference, negotiation or exploratory business visit. It then goes on to clairify about volunteer work... [h=2]Volunteer work tourism schemes [/h]In general terms, you may be able to work as a volunteer whilst on an eVisitor if: your main purpose in visiting Australia is tourism, and any voluntary work remains incidental to tourism the work involved would not otherwise be undertaken, in return for wages, by an Australian resident the work is genuinely voluntary and no remuneration is received in return for the activities. Note: It is acceptable, under the conditions of an eVisitor, to receive meals, accommodation and/ or reimbursement of out-of-pocket living expenses in return for voluntary work. I think the test is if you are being paid or recieve some sort of benefit then it is a no-no. I would say speaking to potential employers is acceptable, but the second you start a job then it is a breach of a tourist visa. I also think people should be reported...as should the employer. It's a job that a local person could be doing at a proper wage rather than someone who hasn't jumped through all the legal loops, so the employer has an opportunity to exploit them. Employers have a responsibility to check the visa/residency status of their staff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The misunderstanding is well highlighted there: may include attending a conference, negotiation or exploratory business visit Exploratory business visit is to assess a market, visit a factory, find a supplier. Nothing to do with working for a business, or trying to. The omission of job search commentary in DIAC speak means it is not permited. Volunteer work in this context is like say manning a Red Cross membership stall, helping a church organisation clean up after the floods etc. In those circumstances food and lodging are expected. eVisa is not there to allow one to volunteer to an employer to show one's skills pre-employment. There is a specific visa for that called a 456 business short stay. And the Working Holiday visa is there if age and no previous use are OK. Of course none of that is clearly stated anywhere, so many assume it is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Of course none of that is clearly stated anywhere, so many assume it is OK. The basic presumption in Australian Law is that if something is not clearly prohibited then it is permissible. I notice, by the by, that you haven't acknowledged the errors in your last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewebweazel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Its quite simple if anyone is so worried about it why don't they just Email the DIAC and ask the question. As for reporting the so called offender, Just remember Karma has a way of coming around and causing £$%&^ for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30085 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 To the OP, I can only imagine this person has done you a serious wrong? I really dont see the problem, many on PIO do not automatically qualify for a visa, other than an employer sponsored one, and surely most employers would prefer to meet a prospective employee in person, than some random email from 10,000 miles away asking for a job, free flight and 4 weeks of paid accomodation, thank you very much. The person in question isnt working, if he's only looking for a way to gain sponsored employment, then good for him. Live and let live, after all, who knows when you may be in a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Its quite simple if anyone is so worried about it why don't they just Email the DIAC and ask the question. As for reporting the so called offender, Just remember Karma has a way of coming around and causing £$%&^ for you! I'd feel fairly comfortable that Karma was going to reward me for reporting someone who is breaching their visa conditions.... Facts of the case are, ETA does not allow for applying for jobs.... Play by the rules and be rewarded, cheat and maybe Karma will get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Facts of the case are, ETA does not allow for applying for jobs.... Play by the rules and be rewarded, cheat and maybe Karma will get you. Facts of the case are: (a) the person is not on ETA so what ETA allows and does not allow is immaterial and (b) neither ETA nor tourist visa seems to me to prohibit making plans for a future visa application in another category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Facts of the case are: (a) the person is not on ETA so what ETA allows and does not allow is immaterial and (b) neither ETA nor tourist visa seems to me to prohibit making plans for a future visa application in another category. You have me on A. But B, Jamie Smith respected MARA agent has already pointed out that what "seems to you" is not correct. The definition of exploratory business visit has nothing to do with seeking employment... ** Just to add the ETA is less restrictive than the 12 month tourist visa of the person described by the OP. This (676) visa does not have any business eligibility.. (other than charity volunteering) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewebweazel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 There I have done it I contacted the DIAC and asked the question now all we have to do is wait for the Answer. I checked out the DIAC website and I can find nothing that requests job seekers on tourist visa's be reported, see below! http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/dob-in/ Immigration Dob-in Service On this page What types of activities should you report? What information should you provide to us? What will we do with the information you provide? Can you remain anonymous? Will we advise you on the progress or outcome of our investigation? How to make a report to the Immigration Dob-in Service What types of activities should you report? The department encourages the community to provide information about: a person you think: has overstayed their visa (such as no longer having a valid visa) is working illegallyExample: A tourist visa holder who is working has breached their visa conditionsExample: A student visa holder who is working more hours than their visa permits deliberately lied on their visa application provided false documents to the department arrived in Australia without a valid visa is on a student visa but is not studying in a fake marriage or relationship to obtain a visa a non-Australian citizen who has been convicted of a serious crime providing immigration advice but is not a registered migration agent a registered migration agent who has committed fraud against the department an education agent who has committed fraud against the department helping people to remain or work in Australia unlawfully fraudulently obtaining any benefit or allowance from the department [*]a business, employer or organisation you think is: exploiting its employees breaching its sponsorship obligations allowing people to work illegally an education provider that has committed fraud against the department [*]a person or organisation you think is: involved in sexual servitude or deceptive recruiting involved in identity fraud [*]a security risk to Australia Example: Involved in terrorist activities or associated with a terrorist organisation [*]employing or organising employment for people who have no right to live or work in Australia [*]facilitating immigration fraud or gaining a financial benefit from it [*]involved in organised fraud, people smuggling or people trafficking [*]a person committing any other type of fraud against the department such as falsely claiming money [*]an employee of or another person working for the department who is committing fraud of any type. What information should you provide to us? The department collects and records all information relating to immigration and citizenship offences and fraud provided to us. Usually the department requires a certain amount of information before starting an investigation. The following table details information to be provided with your report. Note: You are not required to respond to questions or provide information you do not know the answers to. [TABLE=class: tableborder, width: 1] [TR] [TH=bgcolor: #ECECEC]Who allegation relates to:[/TH] [TH=bgcolor: #ECECEC]Information to be provided:[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD]An individual[/TD] [TD]Their: name (including any aliases or nicknames) age or date of birth gender (male or female) nationality telephone numbers (home, work and mobile) email address marital status spouse/partner name and date of birth home address and details of when they are usually at home work address and details of when they are usually at work. Please also provide: the name of their employer a physical description of the person any character issues such as criminal background or history of violence passport number date of arrival and type of visa held details of the person’s vehicle (registration number, make, model and colour) details of any pets (especially dogs) at the person’s residence or workplace The reason why you think the person has committed an immigration or citizenship offence or fraud.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Business, employer or organisation[/TD] [TD]The business, employer or organisation's: business name (registered and trading) street address, phone number, email and website address the name of the business owner, employer and/or sponsor The reason why you think the business/employer/organisation has committed an immigration or citizenship offence or is committing fraud.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] What will we do with the information you provide? The department may only collect information relevant for the investigation of matters relating to Australian immigration and citizenship law and fraud against the department. Examples include information relating to immigration or other fraud, or a person living or working illegally in Australia. We are happy to assist you in redirecting your call should the information you provide be relevant to another government agency. The department takes seriously our obligation to protect your privacy. The department will take all measures to protect your identifying information, however, the information you provide may be disclosed to other government agencies and legal authorities, including courts, in accordance with the Privacy Act. See: Freedom of Information and Privacy For more detailed information about how the department handles personal information you should read information form 993i Safeguarding your personal information, which is available from the department's website. See: Safeguarding your personal information ( 74KB PDF file) Information provided by the community is sometimes too general for us to investigate. However, it can still help to identify immigration fraud trends, high-risk industries and issues that should be monitored. When handling allegations about immigration offences the department treats clients fairly and with respect. Our approach is outlined in our Client Service Charter. The department checks the accuracy of allegations by seeking independent information. See: Client Service Charter Please read the department’s general privacy statement and security of information before providing information to the department. See: Privacy Can you remain anonymous? Yes, you can remain anonymous. However, if you decide to provide your name and contact details we will treat this in the strictest confidence. It can greatly assist an investigation if we can contact you at a later time to request further information. Will we advise you on the progress or outcome of our investigation? For privacy reasons, no information can be provided to you on the progress or outcome of our investigations. How to make a report to the Immigration Dob-in Service There are several ways you can make a report to the Dob-in Service, including telephone, face-to-face, fax, online report and post. [TABLE=class: tableborder, width: 1] [TR] [TH=bgcolor: #ECECEC]Contact method:[/TH] [TH=bgcolor: #ECECEC]Contact details:[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Telephone[/TD] [TD]Telephone: 1800 009 623 – toll free Note: If English is not your preferred language, we will arrange for an interpreter to help you.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Online report[/TD] [TD]Please refer to section titled ‘What information should you provide to us?’ then complete an online report. See: What information should you provide to us? Immigration Dob-in Service Online Report[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Fax[/TD] [TD]1800 009 849 – toll free[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Post[/TD] [TD]Please mark all written correspondence ‘in confidence’ and post to: Information Collection Unit Department of Immigration and Citizenship GPO Box 241 Melbourne VIC 3001[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]In person[/TD] [TD]Locations of departmental offices in Australia and overseas are available. See: Departmental offices Note: You may need to make an appointment to attend an office.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Note: If you are providing follow up information please include the: the name of the person or organisation you are reporting the date the original report was was made how the report was originally made.Example: Fax, online report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Except for "deliberately lied on their visa application", unless you were a tourist why else would you apply for a tourist visa? Especially as has been repeatedly pointed out, there is a visitor visa 456 that does allow for job seeking where the others don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wouldn't worry about it. Not a hanging offence as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Jamie Smith respected MARA agent has already pointed out that what "seems to you" is not correct. ) Have I missed something is Jamie an agent now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Have I missed something is Jamie an agent now? No, I'm stoopid.. I still respect him tho! xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 All I can say, is that we had allegations made against us by my ex husband, ( all completely untrue! ) and they (diac) took if VERY seriously we had to provide all sorts of stat decs, extra police checks and a court order, in doing this we missed one of the vital visa changes and our immigration was held up by 8 months, 8 months of stress and misery, and my ex even then put the boot in and reported us to customs, who then interegated us for 2 hours at the airport after all that travelling and to a country we had never been too. They sussed out the allegations were fake, apologised and welcomed us to Australia, we were late getting our car rental and we were really late getting to our rental home, it was all completely ruined by a selfish, nasty, peice of dirt. Be very very careful that what you are about to do is something your concience will not haunt you for!:frown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeorgeD Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 OK, so volunteer work isn't allowed... Actually it is clear cut law -wise , but it is not made clear education wise. Tourist visas are for tourist purposes and family visits. Do anything else related to employment, work inluding volunteer, or business, and DIAC can cancel your tourist visa. And now it is... Volunteer work in this context is like say manning a Red Cross membership stall, helping a church organisation clean up after the floods etc. In those circumstances food and lodging are expected. Even food and lodging aside, a few hours a week in the local Vinnies shop or cleaning out cages down at the animal shelter on a volunteer basis are allowed on the eVisitor visa and won't get you deported as long as you didn't come to Oz to spend most of your time doing that. I hadn't actually thought of any other context of volunteer work, but DIAC do actually specifically exclude the type Jamie suggested from being allowed when they say the eVisitor allows volunteer work as long as -the work involved would not otherwise be undertaken, in return for wages, by an Australian resident - meaning if it was work that an Australian resident would normally be paid for then it can't be done on the eVisitor, so a "trial run" for a job isn't allowed. Fair enough, the scenario the OP has explained doesn't include any of this. So if we or DIAC define "work" as doing any task for renumeration, then job searching is fine.. It's the second any actual work is done which breaks the conditions. Let's assume for a second that "job searching" is forbidden...define job searching...handing out your CV to employment agencies? What about writing your CV?? What about talking to recruitment consultants??? I spoke to one at a barbecue 4 years ago whilst in Oz on a tourist visa and asked about my chances of finding employment if I moved over. Did I break a visa condition? Responding to a job advert in a paper? What about flicking through the job ads on the way to the sport pages?? What about reading a job ad in a shop window? What about approaching people advertising for staff if they would sponsor you for a work visa? No money has changed hands, no services have been carried out...has any work been done? Some of the other examples aren't quite the same, for example, people going to conferences, trade exhibitions, etc...those people are being paid by someone overseas to be there and promote their wares. It's slightly different from promoting yourself (not your business mind), to prospective employers. Having said that...the second someone picks fruit for a day and gets a handful of dollars without a work visa, then that is a clear breach. There are plenty of people who have got visas the legal way, and had to pay for the privilege, so every job done by an illegal means there's one less opportunity for citizens and those others with the right legal status...like most of the migrants on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewebweazel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 All I can say, is that we had allegations made against us by my ex husband, ( all completely untrue! ) and they (diac) took if VERY seriously we had to provide all sorts of stat decs, extra police checks and a court order, in doing this we missed one of the vital visa changes and our immigration was held up by 8 months, 8 months of stress and misery, and my ex even then put the boot in and reported us to customs, who then interegated us for 2 hours at the airport after all that travelling and to a country we had never been too. They sussed out the allegations were fake, apologised and welcomed us to Australia, we were late getting our car rental and we were really late getting to our rental home, it was all completely ruined by a selfish, nasty, peice of dirt. Be very very careful that what you are about to do is something your concience will not haunt you for!:frown: I hope you sent your Ex a photo of yourself lying on the Beach in Oz with your middle finger extended on the one hand and a cocktail in the other, did the caption on the back say "Thanks Darling for your help,but were still got here!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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