Greggers68 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The problem here is, if you report one person, what have you really acheived as there will probably be others doing a similar thing. Although i beleive in integrity and loyalty no one really gains from reporting the person. Good luck with what ever you decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bazinga Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Are they breaking the law? Yes - report them. No - don't. It is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What puzzles me is how/why you found this forum and why you came here to ask the question having never posted before????????? Quite often on forums, folk will post a so-called hypothetical question or state that it is on behalf of a "friend of a friend" blah blah blah when in fact, they are actually seeking some kind of 'absolution' for something that they are considering doing themselves. I'm not saying that this is the case here..............just find it strange that with no previous posts or introduction, that you should pose a question to complete strangers? Surely if you are au fait with the visa process you can guess that DIAC monitors this site? Hi there Johndoe, Good question Firstly - I hadn't actually realised that DIAC monitor this website - never occured to me to be honest. Good thing it is anonymous. Second - I didn't find the forum - I was referred to it by someone who is a member and who has told me how invaluable the advice given on here is I didn't formally go through the introductions on the forum - I apologise if anyone is offended by that - I honestly was hoping for some views on what to do in this situation - my friend was really worried about all of this last night, and I admit, it did wind me up to see him so worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hi there Johndoe, Good question Firstly - I hadn't actually realised that DIAC monitor this website - never occured to me to be honest. Good thing it is anonymous. Second - I didn't find the forum - I was referred to it by someone who is a member and who has told me how invaluable the advice given on here is I didn't formally go through the introductions on the forum - I apologise if anyone is offended by that - I honestly was hoping for some views on what to do in this situation - my friend was really worried about all of this last night, and I admit, it did wind me up to see him so worried. Have you decided what your going to do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Are you potentially jeopardising your own visa if you fail to cooperate with authorities? (i believe there's a difference between not volunteering information that isn't actively sought and refusing to answer questions or provide information, however this is not a professional opinion as my expertise lies in other areas) This are exactly the questions my friend was stressing over for most of last night, and why I raised the question on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Personally my thoughts are if he isn't working and doesn't intend to work without gaining the correct visa then there is (in my eyes) no big deal.How many people go somewhere on holiday, fall in love with the place, can see themselves living there and start looking to see if there is work around. If they came and had a job lined up then yes I wouldn't be happy. I hear you! Perhaps a bit more background will help people to understand why I find it hard to be as understanding as you. When this guy arrived - not even off the plane for a day, and he was asking everyone to find him a job. Needs to work, and wants to stay here. So, we give him the number of a reputable RMA - result - we get told that the RMA is "stupid" and doesn't know what he is on about. A bit of probing, and the RMA has basically said, with this guys age and lack of qualifications, he is not able to apply to stay in Aus independently, he might be able to get sponsorship on a 457, but they advise he goes back to the UK and does it from there. Fine - so based on this "useless" information, the RMA is apparently clearly very thick and has no clue about immigrating! So we recommend RMA number 2. Turns out RMA2 is equally as stupid as RMA1, as he gave pretty much the same advice. Shock, horror. So the latest strategy is that this guy is going around and apply for jobs. Silly me asked the question - are you telling them you are looking for sponsorship - no, he has decided the company can sponsor him after they give him the job!! Yes - the arrogance of his approach irritates me. I have just ignored it up until now. But when my friend was so worried about things last night, I started to wonder if there was anything that could be done about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This person came here on a tourist visa, and was asking about work within the first day of getting here. When told that they should not be, and what the potential consequences are, they have been very flippant and the attitude has been one of "it won't happen to me" I find the attitude very frustrating especially after the hurdles every one else seems to have to jump through. Do you think I can still report them even if they do not get the job they have applied for? Should I? The behaviour you described does not breach any visitor visa condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Are they definately on a long stay tourist visa and not on a working holiday visa? Have you done your Inspector Clouseau on this? Definitely a 12 month holiday visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The behaviour you described does not breach any visitor visa condition. Is it not against visa conditions to come to Australia on a tourist visa in one hand and a cv in the other with the clear intention of securing a job? This is basically what this guy is doing I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yes indeed but why should it be of concern to you? Barely crime of the century and not a supporter of dobbing in folk for minor infringements. I have known a few in my time who have worked illegally while here as backpackers and done no harm.Goodness worked illegally myself in Greece as a 19 year old. I have far more concern about the abuse by firms with regards to the 475 visa. That is a clear abuse in employing outsiders ahead of Australian based workers in many instances. Thanks for your opinion. My view is more one that if we look after the little rules, the bigger ones have more chance of taking care of themselves. I don't think that by letting shop lifters get off scot free, you are going to stop murderers - murder is clearly a greater crime than shop lifting - But I don't agree with letting the shop lifter off because we should be worrying about the murderers, if you see what I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I hear you! So the latest strategy is that this guy is going around and apply for jobs. Silly me asked the question - are you telling them you are looking for sponsorship - no, he has decided the company can sponsor him after they give him the job!! Yes - the arrogance of his approach irritates me. I have just ignored it up until now. But when my friend was so worried about things last night, I started to wonder if there was anything that could be done about it all. As wrussell says, he's not breaking any rules. Have you tried saying to him that his manner is making you and your friend uneasy? My version of it obviously wouldn't be as polite as that, you understand......:wink:The problem might get fixed nice and simple with a face to face chat. If he is a a bit of a Doilum, then he'll be his own undoing eventually, so I wouldn't worry........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsmark Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This person came here on a tourist visa, and was asking about work within the first day of getting here. When told that they should not be, and what the potential consequences are, they have been very flippant and the attitude has been one of "it won't happen to me" I find the attitude very frustrating especially after the hurdles every one else seems to have to jump through. Do you think I can still report them even if they do not get the job they have applied for? Should I? You may want to be careful about telling people they are breaking the law and threatening them with consequences. You are not a law enforcement officer or a DIAC employee tasked with uncovering visa violations. If you were, you wouldn't ask about reporting this on a website. You may in fact be wrong, and exposing yourself to liability or possibly even committing a crime by alleging wrongdoing that isn't actually a violation. For instance, if I believe that it is illegal for non-citizens to go to the Australian War Memorial, and threaten non-citizens who attend with reporting them and "dire consequences" (when in fact there is no such law), then that could be taken as harassment and they probably should sue me because I'm trying to harm them, have no legal basis or authority to do so, and I'm just plain wrong. A quick look at the DIAC website indicates that it is illegal to work in Australia on a tourist visa. It does not specifically say that it is illegal to apply for employment, or request sponsorship. It would only be illegal to lie about one's visa status or to actually work on the tourist visa. While it does say that if you want to work, you should apply for a visa that allows it, it doesn't say that you can't ask people to sponsor you while here as a tourist (which is part of some visas' application process). Nothing you have provided indicates that this individual seeks to work in Australia illegally. Only that they are seeking a path to LEGALLY work, and you don't like that very much. Now, there may be some portion of the law that is listed in the fine print that makes you technically correct, but then again maybe not. I would get my ducks in a row before I tried to get someone deported or harm them legally. You may find yourself facing some consequences of your own if you are wrong. There is no requirement that an individual on a tourist visa spend a certain amount of time viewing tourist attractions or taking pictures. If someone comes to Oz on a tourist visa and wants to sit in a dark room starring at a wall and eating take-out pizza, he may. I haven't seen anything that a tourist can't spend his/her days talking to people about how great he/she is and how they should sponsor him/her for a legal employment visa. He would be allowed to call or email said employers from his home country and seek the same thing, so I don't see a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Is it not against visa conditions to come to Australia on a tourist visa in one hand and a cv in the other with the clear intention of securing a job? This is basically what this guy is doing I think.It is against the conditions to seek to be simultaneously employed and not hold a visa that permits work. The behaviour you are describing is someone who is seeking to become simultaneously employed and on a sponsored work visa. Nothing wrong with that. You don't need the work visa until you start work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You may want to be careful about telling people they are breaking the law and threatening them with consequences. Just to calrify - I am not telling anyone they are breaking any laws or threatening them with any consequences - I recommended that this person took professional advice from a RMA - it was the RMA (actually 2 of them!) who told this person he should not be looking for work on a tourist visa, and what the potential consequences could be if he was caught. You are not a law enforcement officer or a DIAC employee tasked with uncovering visa violations.. Correct - I am not - but why do they have the DIAC phone numbers to report people in breach of their visa conditions? Is it only for DIAC investigative employees to phone in and report these issues? As an earlier poster commented - the Border Protection tv show shows examples of this time and again - if they believe you are here to look for work when you are on a tourist visa, they cancel your visa. How can they legally cancel a visa if the person is not breaking the law and is able to look for work on a tourist visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Theres no point in going on and on about it, it sounds like your going to report him anyway if you havent already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 As an earlier poster commented - the Border Protection tv show shows examples of this time and again - if they believe you are here to look for work when you are on a tourist visa, they cancel your visa. How can they legally cancel a visa if the person is not breaking the law and is able to look for work on a tourist visa? I thought this was where the discussion would head. The cases shown in Border Security are edited for TV. What actually happens is that the traveller is given an opportunity to present evidence and explanations. If the CV looks like it relates to casual work then it is hard to convince anyone you are not intending to work whilst on your tourist visa. Especially if the traveller has insufficient funds and no obvious means of support whilst in Australia. On the other hand, if the CV points to a professional background with skills that are in demand in Australia, and if you tell a credible story about wanting to combine a holiday with asking employers about the potential for sponoring for a work visa then the outcome may well be different. TV prefers things to be clearer cut, so it shows them that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Theres no point in going on and on about it, it sounds like your going to report him anyway if you havent already. Thanks for this constructive comment - through my comments today I was trying to add a few generic facts to the scenario to better explain myself and to answer the people who had been kind enough to spend their time offering me advice - whether I agree with it or not, I have not argued any advice offered -only sought to ensure that the facts of the scenario are perhaps a bit clearer. I apologise for "going on" about it - I thought I was discussing an issue on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebourvellec Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/132862-my-partner-refused-defacto-457-visa-need-help-asap.html It does happen - but what you have posted regarding this person, and the advice he got from the RMA agents he spoke to he may find it difficult to get a sponsor anyway, plus with his 8503 condition on his visa as cant apply for another visa while he is in Australia. He doesnt want to listen to advice from RMA well it might be his own undoing - no point arguing with an idiot as the idiot always wins hands down with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I didnt mean to offend you but theres 7 pages of this now and basically its going round in circles. Most people have told you not to report, at least untill you are CERTAIN its the right thing to do. You seem to believe this persons in the wrong which is fair enough so you either have to talk to him about this especially if its putting your friend in a uncomfortable position and then if he doesnt listen report him or you forget the whole thing. If he really is doing something wrong then it'll come and bite him in the ass eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I thought this was where the discussion would head. The cases shown in Border Security are edited for TV. What actually happens is that the traveller is given an opportunity to present evidence and explanations. If the CV looks like it relates to casual work then it is hard to convince anyone you are not intending to work whilst on your tourist visa. Especially if the traveller has insufficient funds and no obvious means of support whilst in Australia. On the other hand, if the CV points to a professional background with skills that are in demand in Australia, and if you tell a credible story about wanting to combine a holiday with asking employers about the potential for sponoring for a work visa then the outcome may well be different. TV prefers things to be clearer cut, so it shows them that way. I agree, on all points. The RMAs who have offered this guy advice believe he does not have the "professional background with skills that are in demand in Australia" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I agree, on all points. The RMAs who have offered this guy advice believe he does not have the "professional background with skills that are in demand in Australia" did you not say at the start that he may be eligible for a 457 visa? sorry i'll need to go to the start and re-read. well hopefully if he hasnt got a way to get a visa then he'll head home soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just to calrify - I am not telling anyone they are breaking any laws or threatening them with any consequences - I recommended that this person took professional advice from a RMA - it was the RMA (actually 2 of them!) who told this person he should not be looking for work on a tourist visa, and what the potential consequences could be if he was caught. Correct - I am not - but why do they have the DIAC phone numbers to report people in breach of their visa conditions? Is it only for DIAC investigative employees to phone in and report these issues? As an earlier poster commented - the Border Protection tv show shows examples of this time and again - if they believe you are here to look for work when you are on a tourist visa, they cancel your visa. How can they legally cancel a visa if the person is not breaking the law and is able to look for work on a tourist visa? There has already been an RMA on this thread, if I am not mistaken, stating the guy has not breached any visa conditions. Telly isn't real...... Apart from The Simpsons......TV programs are edited and cut to show you what they consider good TV. These people are normally held for 2-3 hours but you only see 5-10 minutes of their plight on these TV shows. They also go to Australia with $200 and a place to stay with someone they don't really know. I was brought up to address a problem head on in a non-confrontational manner. I don't agree with tale tattling/snitching/grassing. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I became one. But as Stacey said, there is a carrot dangling in front of you and I think you are gonna bite it. I think you are possibly on here looking for justification for your potential actions because I don't think, even you, feel it is the right thing to do. I'm quite opinionated and I tend to call a spade a spade and I apologise if this offends you in any way but I still stand by my beliefs. I am always true to myself:yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm confused....surely without the correct visa this person hasn't a hope of finding a job or a house, or a car etc....we have to jump hoops for every little thing here so regardless of whether this person is 'looking' for work or not, they're not going to get much further without the correct visa.... as for looking for work on a tourist visa, surely with nothing else in place that just makes good sense? Certainly it was something my dh considered before he was offered his job...had no idea it was illegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caveman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 But as Stacey said, there is a carrot dangling in front of you and I think you are gonna bite it. I think you are possibly on here looking for justification for your potential actions because I don't think, even you, feel it is the right thing to do. Not at all - I honestly don't feel I need to justify my actions to anyone. I'm quite opinionated and I tend to call a spade a spade and I apologise if this offends you in any way but I still stand by my beliefs. I am always true to myself Nothing to apologise for - I asked for advice and opinions -that was what I wanted, and that is what I have got. Life would be boring if we all had the same view of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm confused....surely without the correct visa this person hasn't a hope of finding a job or a house, or a car etc....we have to jump hoops for every little thing here so regardless of whether this person is 'looking' for work or not, they're not going to get much further without the correct visa.... Don't kid yourself................there's always unscrupulous employers looking for cheap labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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