starlight7 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If I was you I'd mind my own business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It depends on what they are actually doing. If they are meeting potential employers and sussing out the job market and possible opportunities or sponsorship and places to live, they are not working and obviously do not have a work visa ,I do not see any problem. If they are actively seeking work to start now, cash in hand etc then that would probably be illegal. There is nothing illegal about applying for a job without a proper visa providing they are honest with employers about it. An employer might agree to sponsor them providing the correct paperwork can be completed and a new visa issued. This may mean the person going back to the Uk and waiting for the new visa. You need to be very careful about dobbing them in and make sure you are 100 % sure of your facts. No one likes a snitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fabricator Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 How would you feel about would be immigrants to the UK arriving on tourist visas, with the intention of finding work and staying there permanently? I would not be happy if they stayed and took employment , of course , but to enquire about potential employment and then return home to obtain the correct visa i would be happy with . The rules say no job seeking , thats the law and thats fair enough . If this person is having a look around , putting the feelers out then i dont see harm , i bet there are lots of PIO members that have looked in local news papers when in oz to see whats around , maybe even make a couple of phone calls . but if this person intends to stay in oz and work on a holiday visa then that is wrong and deserves to be reported , looking fine working no Just my thoughts ...lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llessur Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Actually, a little while ago I was introduced to a lovely Australian girl (a friend of a friend - not my OH before you ask - she has dual nationality) who has overstayed her ancestry visa here in the UK and, as far as I am aware, has no intention of leaving. Let's just call it a swap - net impact to both countries is zero. Balance is restored... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If I was you I'd mind my own business. See, if we all turned a blind eye at everything like that, where does that leave society? Where do you draw the line? How many times do we turn a blind eye at things going on around us these days? Sometimes people need to make a choice and if they go with their conscience, so be it, even if others might not agree. Doesn't make the person a bad person for having their principles or morals that are different to our own. I don't know. Its just thoughts in my head. To the OP. I'd report something if it bothered me enough, regardless if it were visa related, claiming benefits when not meant to or concern for a child's welfare. If I had concerns for whatever reason, I'd rather tell someone, let it be looked at by professionals and let them decide. If its legit, the person should be ok, if its dodgy and they get thrown out or taken to court or something, so be it. Honestly, you have to do what you feel is right and if that is reporting someone and letting the authorities take a look at it, then so be it. If you don't wish to report it, fair enough also. But either way perhaps suggest to your friend to make it quite clear they are not going to do anything to aid or help this person look for work or anything else and perhaps cut off contact if it makes them so uncomfortable or they feel pressured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtlboi Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 People are always going on about illegal immigrants taking up jobs etc etc.... If you are on a tourist visa, you do not have the right to work in the country. There are rules for a reason and people who do not follow them really tick me off.... Mostly because I have spent time and money trying to get there legitimately and expect others to do the same. Peronally, I would call and make a complaint.... but only after the person has started working and you know for sure that they have breached their visa conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoandJon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I don't think anyone should pick on Caveman for being upset that someone appears to have entered Oz on a visa that isn't consistent with their apparent purpose. It's one thing to travel and then decide to stay, it's another to deliberately enter any country as a tourist when you know you're actually not. don't forget that the signature (whether electronic or otherwise) that declares your purpose of travel on your entry document is a legal document. if this statement is a falsehood, then that is an offence (off hand i can't recall if it's indictable or summary, and can't right now quote the act and paragraph, but can let you know tomorrow. ) (i'm sure even Mr Russell won't argue with me on this one) My questions are: Do you believe an offence is being committed? Is it an offence to facilitate the committment of an offence? Is it an offence to knowingly interfere with the work of an authorised officer? Are you potentially jeopardising your own visa if you fail to cooperate with authorities? (i believe there's a difference between not volunteering information that isn't actively sought and refusing to answer questions or provide information, however this is not a professional opinion as my expertise lies in other areas) If you are worried, write down a list of stuff that you're worried about (the evidence if you like), then go to bed and think about it for a day or two. Then if you still have concerns you know you've thought it through it's a tough one, and I hope you can sort it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fabricator Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 As an elployer in the uk , if someone approched me looking for a job on a holiday visa, they were exactly whart i was looking for and i couldnt find anyone locally then id ask them to obtain and return with a working visa , if they said that they wanted to work now , and with just there holiday visa id report them , Im sure genuine Oz employers would do the same as there are heafty fines involved ( uk is upto 10K fine per worker) your friend will no doubt trip themselves up at some point anyway . PS the law states employment as , working or doing a job for personal gain or reward , this can be the obvious pay cheque , also for food and a room for the night , " you are rewarded for your work " lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Personally my thoughts are if he isn't working and doesn't intend to work without gaining the correct visa then there is (in my eyes) no big deal. How many people go somewhere on holiday, fall in love with the place, can see themselves living there and start looking to see if there is work around. If they came and had a job lined up then yes I wouldn't be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anxiety Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I see a difference between coming to Aus and making a few inquiries, and coming to Aus with a ready resume and dishing it out on day 1. No intention to go back to the UK either - expecting sponsorship and to stay here permanently What's wrong in coming to Oz on a tourist visa and look for work and then come back again legally on a sponsored work visa?!! I can't understand this much of hate for someone you hardly know and he is not affecting you in any way possible? Live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Employers can check someone's visa Status by VEVO check, if they don't have work rights then the employer can phone the hot line informing DIAC this person is looking for work. There is nothing wrong with an employer phoning DIAC saying Mr/Miss X is on a tourist visa and actively seeking work just thought you should know. If you say this person is on a 12 month tourist visa then its likely a 8503 'No Further Stay' condition attached. They have to leave and wait for a 457 visa to be processed anyway. Maybe when they think they are on the home stretch a little surprise awaits them when they have to depart the country..... Don't bother coming back for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Could be wrong but I don't think 457 temp work visas have a limit...if they can find someone willing to sponsor them then they are not really taking anyone else's place in the queue. If this is true then it just seems a way of talking to employees in person and shouldn't harm anyone. To me the spirit of the law, ie are they disadvantaging someone else or the country, is more important than the letter of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Personally my thoughts are if he isn't working and doesn't intend to work without gaining the correct visa then there is (in my eyes) no big deal.How many people go somewhere on holiday, fall in love with the place, can see themselves living there and start looking to see if there is work around. If they came and had a job lined up then yes I wouldn't be happy. totally agree, you have to be certain that he/she is actually planning on working/or is actually working at the moment. Me and dave are planning on coming over for a holiday at the end of the year if nothing comes of migrating, maybe see if he can make any contacts etc but then come back home and try gain a visa. Even if i knew someone was looking for work i still dont think i would report them, im sure they would get caught eventually anyway. Thats just the way i am though, other people are different and would want to report them straight away. Everyones different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What puzzles me is how/why you found this forum and why you came here to ask the question having never posted before????????? Quite often on forums, folk will post a so-called hypothetical question or state that it is on behalf of a "friend of a friend" blah blah blah when in fact, they are actually seeking some kind of 'absolution' for something that they are considering doing themselves. I'm not saying that this is the case here..............just find it strange that with no previous posts or introduction, that you should pose a question to complete strangers? Surely if you are au fait with the visa process you can guess that DIAC monitors this site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Fox Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I would say if they aren't intending to actually work on a non-work visa then it's fine. People will always have a much better chance of securing work and sponsorship face to face, and likewise they may want to learn about the system in Australia. All they are doing is checking their chances of forming a life in Oz from the most logical place to do so. I would also say that if an employer is willing to sponsor them and can secure a 457 visa for them that there must be a need for the people with their skills anyway. No one loses out - Australia gets a new, keen, employed tax-payer on a legitimate visa in a role which is in some way difficult to fill, and the "villain" in question gets a chance at a better life on a legal working visa, and if they lose their job they leave Oz! I would definitely stay out of it, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BHIsacks Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Whilst I know this would aggravate many people out there that have paid a lot of money and spent a lot of time getting into Australia legitimately, it's hard to judge people as we don't know what their personal circumstances are. This person is clearly trying to make a better life for themselves and they might not be in a position to be able to pay a lot of money - hence maybe trying to find employer sponsorship. Whilst they are not going about it the right way, I would advise not to get involved. What people do in their lives comes back to them in some way or another and they have to face consequences for their actions, so I wouldn't let somebody's else actions affect your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewebweazel Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I suppose there is a lot of valid arguments for and against reporting this person, but for me it is quite simple, would you be able to look this person in the eye and say " I am reporting you to the DIAC for breaching your visa restrictions, as I feel what you are doing is wrong!". If you are unable to do it, you do not feel strongly enough about the "Transgression" to validate reporting them without feeling guilt afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest31881 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Interesting thread and some interesting ideas on what should be done. I cannot comment on the person who is allegedly looking for work on a tourist visa but i can make a couple of observations.... DIAC frown on anyone using a tourist visa to search for or take up work while in Australia. Employers are required to inform DIAC if anyone applies for work and does not not have the correct visa. If he is here in a 12 month visa, the chances are that he will have a no further stay condition so he cannot apply for any other visa while in Australia. IF DIAC do find out then he could banned for a minimum of 3 years from returning to Australia. As this site is monitored by DIAC they will now be aware of the fact that a lone male from the UK is on a 12 month visa is looking for work. I wonder how many lone males are in Australia at this time on a 12month visitor visa? It does not matter if you feel this person is doing no harm, or if you feel he is totally wrong. The DIAC attitude is that a visitor visa is just for visitors and not for looking for work. I think he is taking a big risk, as he could ruin his chances of a visa in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The DIAC site says the 456 visa allows business activity be it market research or employment search. That's what your "pal" should have applied for by the sound of it. If DIAC encountered them doing this at the aiport then it's easy for DIAC to apply a remedy - let off with a caution or terminate the tourist visa. On TV show Border Control "tourists" are being booted out next flight when they are suspected of wanting to work. But that's easy to do and makes for good TV as DIAC don't have to track someone down outside the airport and the remedy is at hand. 3 suggestions: a) You could encourage your "pal" to apply for the 456. Not that they will listen. People are allowed to act like selfish assh*les. b) You could do nothing and let them pat themselves on the back for being clever. c) You could dob them in. DIAC might or might not follow up. If DIAC think they would possibly have a problem finding this person they will do nothing. DIAC should make clear on arrival cards, embassy/consulate offices, websites etc what visa to apply for if the intention is job search. By not taking the time to educate people what visa they should have for job search, DIAC created the problem and the opportunity your "pal" is exploiting. Do whatever you think is right. But don't lose too much sleep over it. DIAC really should do a better job of educating applicants about visas for job search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 How would you feel about would be immigrants to the UK arriving on tourist visas, with the intention of finding work and staying there permanently? My feeling on this is very simple. If someone chooses to live in a country that I live in and pay taxes in, I would rather they look for work, than be a burden on the state. There are allot of people in countries all over the world that can work but choose not to because they feel they are better off on the dole. As a result, resources are stretched and benefits are reduced or taken away from people who really need them. For that reason alone, I will never have a problem with someone wanting to find work, no matter what their circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Not a friend - but it is causing problems for a friend who feels they are being pushed into helping this person try and find a job Be there to give your friend support but it is not your problem to get involved in. Do onto others etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I do not have a detailed understanding of visas, but I thought if you came to Aus on a tourist visa, it was against the rules to look for work. DIAC website says tourist visas are "for people to visit Australia for a holiday, sightseeing, social or recreational reasons, to visit relatives, friends or for other short term non work purposes" I have always been told that people should not be seeking employment on a tourist visa, and that they should apply for a business visa which allows them to look for work. Please correct me if I am wrong Thanks Yes indeed but why should it be of concern to you? Barely crime of the century and not a supporter of dobbing in folk for minor infringements. I have known a few in my time who have worked illegally while here as backpackers and done no harm. Goodness worked illegally myself in Greece as a 19 year old. I have far more concern about the abuse by firms with regards to the 475 visa. That is a clear abuse in employing outsiders ahead of Australian based workers in many instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I see a difference between coming to Aus and making a few inquiries, and coming to Aus with a ready resume and dishing it out on day 1. No intention to go back to the UK either - expecting sponsorship and to stay here permanently I am going down the legal route for my visa. But I also know ''a friend'' who ''may'' have attended a job interview whilst on holiday because there were no Skype interviews being held for him/her in the UK. Regarding sponsorship, they can ''expect'' all they want! Expecting and wanting doesn't mean getting. I had to work hard for my PR sponsorship and it was more difficult going through the process for that, than it ever was getting into my job in the first place. Also, this guy is being proactive and taking initiative. Nothing is ever handed to you in life that's worth having. He is trying to make a better life for himself and for that, he gets my vote. If he is foolish enough to outstay his visa and remain in Australia illegally, he will be looking over his shoulder for the remaining time he is there until DIAC catch up with him. And they always catch up. Every job he will ever take up being an illegal immigrant, will have to be off the books and not worth the money. He will also probably find it virtually impossible to ever get a PR visa because of this. Maybe it's not my suspicious Ninja nature but I am picking up some undertones of this being a bit more personal than you are letting on............:mask: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 That reminds me I have to cut the GRASS!! I see what you did there...:yes: lmao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Not living with me - acquaintance of a friend - only reason I have asked the question is cos my friend is worried about it. Personally I do think it is a bit wrong -surely that is not the intention of a tourist visa? I have family and friends who are going through the mill trying to get in to Aus, but they are playing it by the book. Are they definately on a long stay tourist visa and not on a working holiday visa? Have you done your Inspector Clouseau on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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