calNgary Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I actually believe a lot of benefits should be paid in vouchers that can be exchanged at supermarkets, chemists etc and also (especially in the case of unemployment benefit) credit should be given on utility or mortgage costs rather than cash into a persons bank account. This would help stop a lot of misuse from the ones who do take advantage of the system. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Totally agree with your post Peter,, VS thats a pretty silly comment,, regardless of if I or joe bloggs decides to claim what he is entitled to, you will stay pay via taxes,, its the system and the goverment you need to point your frustration at not everyday working people. Cal x Sorry. But that is the problem. "entitled". Benefits were designed as a emergency relief. Now they are a way of life, not just for the long term unemployed, but for the masses who think they have a "right" to children allowances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 But when its means tested what difference does it make? It means those earning x amount get less than those earning nothing,regardless of which you are, if your entitled to it ,then there is no wrong in taking it. Not to , would be a bit like winning the lottery and saying 'even though its mine and im entitled to it, you keep it '' ??? Sounds crazy heh? I dont agree they are seen as a 'way of life' by the majoirty,, some abuse them (and this is where vouchers would help) but certainly not all.. We get Family credit and for the record we have 1 LCD tv, no Foxtel or equivalent, no nail and hair appointments every week , no fancy mobile phones,,,etc etc,, not all of us are out to abuse or cheat the system.. lol Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Sod Australia Lets all move to scotland sound like the place to be, what happened to the uk v oz debate. Me and my partner both work have 3 kids 2,8,15 cant afford child care so i work 7-5 + sat mornings and she works nights and weekends in a restraunt, she could be a stay at home mum and prob get extra benefits from a lower income but sod that, every penny counts were saving up to come to oz, where we will defo be spending more time as a family. For me personally there is more chance to get by on one wage plus family assist in oz than one wage plus tax credits and child benefit here. Regarding pensions then who knows age goes up money goes down more so now with all the changes at least what gets payed in for you in oz you have more of a say of what happens to it, + you have the option of paying more in so you have more to retire on.(up to you really) Regarding houses then most in oz are detatched on big ish blocks ie the burbs ? (average joes house) 3-4 bed. Same house where i live that would be classed as a very large house more like a 2 up 2 down terrace. Trying to buy a 4 bed detatched house about 30 miles out of manchester c/c 250,000 + on 35,000 year joint income could prove to be very dificult. House prices 30 miles out of perth c/c 400,000 + on single income 100,000 with benefits included so thats 7 years salary in uk and 4-5 years salary in oz. So for me as an overall better life style for a middle class moderate earner on an average salary both in uk and in oz then on this topic oz wins, there are loads more factors to work in which could throw it eather way but im deffo going to give it a go :-) I know you're joking but just in case anyone is interested Scotland is crying out for migrants! http://www.talentscotland.com/ Wages in Edinburgh have an exchange rate with Perth of about 2.00 for my profession - I live 20km outside of Perth in a new detached house 4 bed plus office on a 450sqm block which cost $660k, a similar distance outside Edinburgh I sold a new detached house 4 bed plus office with a slightly larger garden for 235k. Before we moved out I believed we could live in a house 30 miles out of Perth for $400k but when it came to it they were either too awful to contemplate (sold to be demolished) or in desolate, souless areas. Some people like them I guess but I've never aspired to the suburbs - it certainly isn't a 'better lifestyle' than living in a village in Scotland. Some professions are valued more in Australia and if your salary expectations are realistic then for you personally you might be financially better off in Perth but I still reckon you'd be better off in Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 apparently, not sure if its true, but aussie pensioners are one of the poorest in the world?????????? UK single pension 107 quid a week (not means tested I believe). Oz single pension (means tested with family home excluded) $356 a week with other concessions such as rent rebate, concession card for reduced prescription costs and depending on State, reduced transport fares, utility costs, rates, vehicle registration etc. Also many stores offer discounts to those holding pension cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomPrincesses Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I actually believe a lot of benefits should be paid in vouchers that can be exchanged at supermarkets, chemists etc and also (especially in the case of unemployment benefit) credit should be given on utility or mortgage costs rather than cash into a persons bank account. This would help stop a lot of misuse from the ones who do take advantage of the system. Cal x Then the person receiving them would get even less of the benefit as they'd be sold on the black market not to mention the humiliation of the genuinely down on their luck cases. the point is those taking advantage are a tiny minority so the majority shouldn't have to suffer as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 But why should you get family benefit? Someone is paying for that. People like myself. I believe in benefits. But that is a lifestyle benefit. You believe you have an entitlement to it. You don't. I want my taxes to go to people in emergencies. But when its means tested what difference does it make? It means those earning x amount get less than those earning nothing,regardless of which you are, if your entitled to it ,then there is no wrong in taking it. Not to , would be a bit like winning the lottery and saying 'even though its mine and im entitled to it, you keep it '' ??? Sounds crazy heh? I dont agree they are seen as a 'way of life' by the majoirty,, some abuse them (and this is where vouchers would help) but certainly not all.. We get Family credit and for the record we have 1 LCD tv, no Foxtel or equivalent, no nail and hair appointments every week , no fancy mobile phones,,,etc etc,, not all of us are out to abuse or cheat the system.. lol Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Ok, so we live in Sydney, and my husband has been working fulltime and I've been working 2 days a week: a baby & a 3 year old have been my other work. Sydney is incredibly expensive, we both work CBD so can't be miles out, and I refuse to travl over an hour each way, so those more affordable big houses in the lifeless 'burbs aren't going to happen. We don't qualify for Child Tax Benefit A or B (they take the preceding year's income into account and estimated income). But had to apply in order to get CCR, which we finally got for both. This weekend having done calculations on me being offered fulltime work (hurrah, maybe we can afford to set up a life here). Unfortunately the Rebate is capped at 7500 per child per year, so your bills over 1500 you pay the full wack. This works out at 2-3 days per week, and so for the remaining days we would have to pay 210 a day childcare, after tax currently that would give me 40 dollars!! Thankfully my pay is being reviewed but it doesn't help with trying to save up for extortionately priced houses, cars, food, bills, etc. So I think we're offsky, we're better off in the UK, my daughter will go to a good school in September and until then get her 15 hours a week childcare - at a good nursery - oh my goodness there are alot of shocking day care centres over here, but you don't have the choice as the waiting lists are so long. But perhaps if we were to live somewhere else, but you can't keep on moving when children need a settled life and the opportunity to make friends. Rant over, just thought I'd have my tuppence!! We have also had several horrible letters from Centrelink that have said we earn loads, I wish, aren't entitled to various things, goes on & on, and each time I've called up Centrelink they've realised that somebody has entered in the data incorrectly, it's frustrating when it's done online. So worth noting that their admin is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter bull Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I actually believe a lot of benefits should be paid in vouchers that can be exchanged at supermarkets, chemists etc and also (especially in the case of unemployment benefit) credit should be given on utility or mortgage costs rather than cash into a persons bank account. This would help stop a lot of misuse from the ones who do take advantage of the system. Cal x I totally agree, then the money gets used for what it is intended for, plus im sure the goverment could come up with some sort of plan with certain chemists and supermarkets etc to strike a deal that ever £1 spent in vouchers only costed the goverment say 90p for example then that would also help cut down on goverment spending and stop all the big supermarket chains from getting as rich, the only down side is all the smaller market retailers missing out ? It s surtainly something that could be looked at, there would me loads more ways to stop the goverment frittering away all the tax payers cash ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Then the person receiving them would get even less of the benefit as they'd be sold on the black market not to mention the humiliation of the genuinely down on their luck cases. the point is those taking advantage are a tiny minority so the majority shouldn't have to suffer as a result. Well if the recipient is stupid enough to try and sell them on the black market then they are probably the type of person to buy a plasma TV whilst their kids walk around in rags and deserve to end up with less !!! People use money off vouchers and gift vouchers without feeling 'humiliated' and the check out girl doesnt ask how you came to have the voucher...so i dont really see a difference. If you have a baby and a voucher for Asda or Woolys baby section why should you feel humilated using it for Baby products? Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Do you remember the baby payment the UK made in 2009? £180 or something, the actual initiative was to get poorer mums to eat a healthier diet, encouraging fruit and veg, however the mechanism to do this was too complicated so they just paid every new mum the money, sure that paid for some good booze & fags or the middle-classers towards their 'buggaboo', slightly didn't achieve the health objective!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Well if the recipient is stupid enough to try and sell them on the black market then they are probably the type of person to buy a plasma TV whilst their kids walk around in rags and deserve to end up with less !!! People use money off vouchers and gift vouchers without feeling 'humiliated' and the check out girl doesnt ask how you came to have the voucher...so i dont really see a difference. If you have a baby and a voucher for Asda or Woolys baby section why should you feel humilated using it for Baby products? Cal x Would you mind getting your family credit in the form of vouchers? I'm not sure I know where I stand on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The same happens here with the baby bonus payment, some abuse the system and had a great old shopping spree at the electrical store when their payment came through, hence i also believe this is another benefit that should be paid in a voucher scheme. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If i recieved a Supermarket (woolys / coles) voucher then id be more than happy to use it yes, as it would cover groceries, fuel,, if BIG W etc was also included on the voucher but limited to clothing and household goods i also think that would be a good idea. I think its highly unlikely the vouchers would come with a flashing beacon and set an alarm off when you go to pay that screams 'pauper in da house!',,lol, so i really dont see a problem unless your maybe one of them people that wont be seen dead with an Aldi bag or have a BMW keyring on your fiesta key,lol Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Ah, we didn't qualify for baby bonus. Just slipped over :-( The problem people would have is the allegiance to a store...suddenly Big W gets loads more customers but the local shop goes out of business...just a thought!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thats true Cam but im sure some system could be put in place to try and reduce the absue it currently gets.. Even paying a percentage of the total benefit in credit or vouchers would help, lets face it, there isnt many families with kids that dont have an electric bill to pay , so a credit there for a % of your benefit would work and mean 'less' cash in the pocket to 'waste'.. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If i recieved a Supermarket (woolys / coles) voucher then id be more than happy to use it yes, as it would cover groceries, fuel,, if BIG W etc was also included on the voucher but limited to clothing and household goods i also think that would be a good idea. I think its highly unlikely the vouchers would come with a flashing beacon and set an alarm off when you go to pay that screams 'pauper in da house!',,lol, so i really dont see a problem unless your maybe one of them people that wont be seen dead with an Aldi bag or have a BMW keyring on your fiesta key,lol Cal x I'm not in receipt of any benefits/tax credits etc, but I don't think I'd have a problem using vouchers in supermarkets etc. how would anyone know the difference between them and the usual Tesco etc rewards? I wouldn't have minded my child benefit, when I got it, being paid in vouchers to make sure it was used for my children as long as they were widely accepted, but, on the other hand, does it further take away responsibility of the recipient and make them feel more state dependent? I don't know... I don't have any problem using Aldi bags and I promise, I would NEVER want a BMW keyring, or the car to go with it! :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hi buttercup i get 125 a month for child benefit, i think its about 18/19 pounds for first born and about 11/12 pounds for second and subsequent children. i think it has gone up a pound recently so in total i get about 200 pounds a month - up that by another 100 pounds in total when new baby arrives (though might be being a bit generous there haha!) so will be 300 pounds a month - australia still in the lead! (estimate only tho of course) anyway, my main point as i said, was that i was impressed that families/married couples dont seem to get penalised for being together. in the Uk it seems to make more financial sense to be a single parent which is probably why so many people cheat the benefit system!!! also families in uk don't seem to get as many tax breaks compared to rest of world (inc oz) However, in the UK children get free glasses and free prescriptions, and pregnant women also get free prescriptions and dental care - none of which will be free here in Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Well if the recipient is stupid enough to try and sell them on the black market then they are probably the type of person to buy a plasma TV whilst their kids walk around in rags and deserve to end up with less !!! People use money off vouchers and gift vouchers without feeling 'humiliated' and the check out girl doesnt ask how you came to have the voucher...so i dont really see a difference. If you have a baby and a voucher for Asda or Woolys baby section why should you feel humilated using it for Baby products? Cal x One of my jobs was as a "milko" back in the UK. A "war" started between the co-op dairies and Unigate based on revenue to be gained from milk tokens. We were instructed to treat milk tokens as cash that could be utilised to buy anything on the back of a milk float..............the co-op got in first with eggs and bacon.................it ended up with Unigate milk floats actually carrying tights and nappies..........We actually, (the milkos,) started selling our own gear, keeping cash and handing in tokens in lieu.............WTF?...............don't give me that shlt about the unions and "morality" of the working class.................anything that fills your pocket was fair game and likely still is..............the dockers (wharfies) are testament to this and it was them, not the miners, that destroyed the Unions in the UK..............a digression........my apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I actually believe a lot of benefits should be paid in vouchers that can be exchanged at supermarkets, chemists etc and also (especially in the case of unemployment benefit) credit should be given on utility or mortgage costs rather than cash into a persons bank account. This would help stop a lot of misuse from the ones who do take advantage of the system. Cal x This already happens. It is called the Centrelink Basics card - it was first applied only to Aboriginals but has now been extended. The cards are hated. They announce to everyone that the person who holds the card is on benefits and the implication is that they cannot be trusted to make their own spending decisions. They are not universally accepted, further limiting the choice of the cardholder as to where they shop - they may not be allowed to take advantage of shopping around. They can be circumvented by dishonest shopkeepers who can ring through groceries but actually hand over alcohol - for a hefty mark up. And in any case, why shouldn't people on benefits be able to make choices - whether good or bad - about how they spend their money? In the olden days, workers used to be paid in company script redeemable only on overpriced and approved goods at the company store (this scheme effectively still ran on the Falkland Islands until 1982!) and workers rebelled. The idea was outlawed as anti-competitive and restrictive of personal freedoms. If choice is good enough for the waged, it should be good enough too for the unwaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I know a couple who are planning to buy a large screen TV with their baby bonus. I'm sure lots do it. I don't really like it but their argument is they 'need' a new TV anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I know a couple who are planning to buy a large screen TV with their baby bonus. I'm sure lots do it.I don't really like it but their argument is they 'need' a new TV anyway. Well they will need to pay it up cos you get the Baby Bonus in instalments now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomPrincesses Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 If i recieved a Supermarket (woolys / coles) voucher then id be more than happy to use it yes, as it would cover groceries, fuel,, if BIG W etc was also included on the voucher but limited to clothing and household goods i also think that would be a good idea. I think its highly unlikely the vouchers would come with a flashing beacon and set an alarm off when you go to pay that screams 'pauper in da house!',,lol, so i really dont see a problem unless your maybe one of them people that wont be seen dead with an Aldi bag or have a BMW keyring on your fiesta key,lol Cal x I have been behind a woman using the milk fruit and veg vouchers where the check out chick stood and started trying - unsuccessfully to add up the total in her head - stood up and shouted ver to her colleague for a calculator cos she's got one of these voucher things again and then gave the customer filthy looks because she'd had to heave her fat arse off her chair. So I can imagine Tesco's creating a separate que for the poor people or demanding they add it up first before joining the nice people paying with their own money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomPrincesses Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I know a couple who are planning to buy a large screen TV with their baby bonus. I'm sure lots do it.I don't really like it but their argument is they 'need' a new TV anyway. If they've a new TV might stop them producing another baby. Or not given how shite it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 You are not being penalised for having kids. You are getting 67 quid a month of free money paid for by taxpayers for your choice to have kids. I think that child benefits should be means tested or scrapped completely which should lower taxes and you can do whatever you like with the extra money. The free benefits system and culture of entitlement in the UK is one of the reasons why government debt is so high and the country is in an economic mess. Some benefits in Australia do seem generous compared to the Uk but that is a government policy which is not going to change as there are votes in it. The UK govt is only reducing them because the debt is so high and the country cannot afford them any more. Similarly, the Tories keep banging on about giving extra tax relief for being married which is discriminatory. Getting married or not is a choice you make so i dont see why married couples should get free money for their choices. As for NHS dentists, I never had a problem finding one when I moved around the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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