Still here and still feel the pull

[Quoll]

3 minutes ago, Parley said:

Doctors and psychologists usually make things worse not better. Upsetting you even more.

True! They’ll never make the decision for you. The best they may be able to do is to help with the debilitating feelings that seem to be preventing a normal life - whether that be medication or talk therapies. Sometimes, however, they just increase the sense of hopelessness which can be counter productive. 

[Marisawright]

51 minutes ago, Quoll said:

True! They’ll never make the decision for you. The best they may be able to do is to help with the debilitating feelings that seem to be preventing a normal life - whether that be medication or talk therapies. Sometimes, however, they just increase the sense of hopelessness which can be counter productive. 

That feels like an irresponsible thing to say, you're telling people "don't bother seeking professional help, they're useless."   You can certainly be unlucky with doctors and psychologists -- it sounds like Nana got an unsympathetic doctor -- but what if you're at the end of your tether and have no one else to turn to?

I thought you found CBT has helped you cope -- or are you saying that's a waste of time?  You may have had the ability to learn that for yourself but not all people do.  

Edited June 22, 2022 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

That feels like an irresponsible thing to say, you're telling people "don't bother seeking professional help, they're useless."   You can certainly be unlucky with doctors and psychologists -- it sounds like Nana got an unsympathetic doctor -- but what if you're at the end of your tether and have no one else to turn to?

I thought you found CBT has helped you cope -- or are you saying that's a waste of time?  You may have had the ability to learn that for yourself but not all people do.  

I didnt say dont seek their support - it rather depends on what you seek their support for - if you expect a decision to be made for you then that only puts the stress back on you, sadly Nana did find one that was unhelpful which has not been very productive - I would have thought an offer of anti anxiety meds could at least have been discussed.

For counselling to work, the client has to be willing to participate - none of them are going to make the decision either and the possibility of helping you go round and round in circles for the process is often not helpful either, as I said, the best they can do is to help you cope with the outcome of the decision.  It rather depends on what you think the counsellor or doctor could do - make the decision=no, help you cope with whatever decision you do make=yes.  But you have to want to participate in the process and that takes work.

In this case there is no right or wrong answer and short of a crystal ball nobody on earth is going to know which outcome will be the most successful/fulfilling unfortunately. A decision has to be made and then lived with because perpetual limbo is an even more unstabilising situation than a less than optimal decision (most of the time, you can fix wrong decisions albeit at some cost, emotionally, financially, socially)

[Marisawright]

40 minutes ago, Quoll said:

I didnt say dont seek their support - it rather depends on what you seek their support for - if you expect a decision to be made for you then that only puts the stress back on you,

I didn't see anyone, anywhere in the thread, suggesting a doctor or psychiatrist could make the decision for you.   

Parley said doctors and psychiatrists only made things worse and you replied, "True". 

[Nanna]

 But here's another option.  I'm scared to not have something to fall back on- in case  But there is a little apartment here being built with sea views.  It gives me a bit of peace of mind to have something to fall back on  BUT we can't view till mid July and we have to agree to exchange in 6 weeks *end Aug. So I am wondering if we should sell this house now, sell most of furniture, still come to Australia  after viewing that apartment, and then decide which way its going to go.  We would lose £7k deposit if we don't continue with the purchase but if we come to Australia, realise in a couple of weeks it's not going to work then we have that apartment to complete on. ???  The apartment isn't ready till Oct so if we decide UK is for us we fly back then, get furniture out of storage   If its Australia we just don't buy it and ship furniture.   All costly BUT is it a good plan?

Edited June 22, 2022 by Nanna
Added to. And typographical error

[Parley]

5 minutes ago, Nanna said:

 But here's another option.  I'm scared to not have something to fall back on- in case  But there is a little apartment here being built with sea views.  It gives me a bit of peace of mind to have something to fall back on  BUT we can't view till mid July and we have to agree to exchange in 6 weeks *end Aug. So I am wondering if we should sell this house now, sell most of furniture, still come to Australia  after viewing that apartment, and then decide which way its going to go.  We would lose £7k deposit if we don't continue with the purchase but if we come to Australia, realise in a couple of weeks it's not going to work then we have that apartment to complete on. ???  The apartment isn't ready till Oct so if we decide UK is for us we fly back then, get furniture out of storage   If its Australia we just don't buy it and ship furniture.   All costly BUT is it a good plan?

Most people wouldn't discover a move isn't for them in just a few weeks. Often it dawns on them after a year or 18 months. So I personally wouldn't think that is a great plan.

Better to commit in your own mind now and go for it or forget the whole idea.

[Tulip1]

2 minutes ago, Nanna said:

we come to Australia, realise in a couple of weeks it's not going to work then we have that apartment to complete on

It will be impossible to realise in a couple of weeks.  Moving there will take a lot of work to make it happen.  You will need to embrace all things new and put yourself out there to make it successful.   If I make the move out there, I will be thinking of all the ways in which to make the best of it such and how I can meet new people etc.  You seem to be putting far more work and thoughts into securing a life in the UK for when it doesn’t work out.  Planning is good but from everything you’ve put I think your mindset is it’s not going to work, so much so that you want to buy a new apartment ready for you for when it fails.  Making it too easy to come back isn’t a good thing.  Returning is always an option but when things go wrong and you’re feeling down (which will happen at times) having a new apartment just waiting for you is too easy.  You’re heart isn’t into the move and for that reason it’s likely to fail.  Your main reason for going is to not be alone when you’re very old.  You mentioned your husband has changed his mind because of interest rates climbing and price increases.  While it’s sensible to be aware of these things, you appear to be able to ride them more than many could.  Many parents move out there with nothing and little idea of how they will afford to live.  I’m not suggesting that’s sensible because it’s not.  What it tells you though is they are so desperate to move to be near family nothing will stop them.  An interest rate increase may stop you. You are finding lots of reasons not to go.  Even your long lost sister is saying don’t go.  Her opinion shouldn’t even be a contender.  Until very recently, she wasn’t in your life.  Nice she is but if you had your heart set on the move your suggestion wouldn’t even have registered.  One thing I do think you need to do is set a date on a decision and stick to it.  Say to your husband by the last day of this month we decide on stay or go and then put it to bed.  This isn’t doing you any good.  Once a firm decision is made you get on with it and forget all this upset. 

[Bulya]

13 hours ago, Nanna said:

 But here's another option.  I'm scared to not have something to fall back on- in case  But there is a little apartment here being built with sea views.  It gives me a bit of peace of mind to have something to fall back on  BUT we can't view till mid July and we have to agree to exchange in 6 weeks *end Aug. So I am wondering if we should sell this house now, sell most of furniture, still come to Australia  after viewing that apartment, and then decide which way its going to go.  We would lose £7k deposit if we don't continue with the purchase but if we come to Australia, realise in a couple of weeks it's not going to work then we have that apartment to complete on. ???  The apartment isn't ready till Oct so if we decide UK is for us we fly back then, get furniture out of storage   If its Australia we just don't buy it and ship furniture.   All costly BUT is it a good plan?

You’re setting yourself up to fail, you have the wrong mindset.  You be better off staying where you are and save yourself a lot of time and money.  

[Nanna]

Without doubt financially, house and travel wise it is UK - its the emotion I struggle with being away from my family for the most part of the remainder of our lives- but then if I live there my head argues that the money restrictions and the constraints put on us by limited property choice with other  big compromises to do with freedom there stops me!!!  I am still getting nowhere but nearer a looney bin.

[Nanna]

Plus the worry of losing the RRV if we don't come   

[Chortlepuss]

You will definitely lose the RRV if you don’t come, then possibly spend ages agonising that you missed the boat. To get the chance of living here permanently you have to take this option while it is open to you - unless you want your remaining life to be ‘what if’
There is a risk that you will not materially have the same lifestyle as you had in the UK. Australia is an expensive place. Does this drop in living standards really matter? I had a beautiful house in SE UK which we sold. Can’t afford an equivalent house here but we survive and as we’re older, don’t need a large house. 
You own a premium house that will attract premium rent - or a premium sale value. If you rent it, you will be taxed on income and you will pay CGT on it if you sell. Alternatively you could take all that money tax free and either invest in a decent place in Aus, or rent (tricky I know) while you make up your mind where you want to live. Then go back to the UK if it doesn’t work out, knowing you’ve given it a go but it’s not for you… 
Your house sale will force you to make a decision but be grateful you have options and have money. A friend is 60+ and going through the parent visa process - it’s agonising- she would kill for your RRV! I’m sure you will always miss your lovely house if you sell but chances are, you’ve outgrown it now and time for different adventures! 

[Blue Flu]

On 22/06/2022 at 08:11, Parley said:

Doctors and psychologists usually make things worse not better. Upsetting you even more.

A psychologist may be of help.  It depends on the professional in question and the person seeking assistance. In this particular case it may be worth a shot. It may lead to clarity with regards to the situation in a way reading comments on a forum may not. 

[ramot]

On 25/06/2022 at 17:26, Nanna said:

Without doubt financially, house and travel wise it is UK - its the emotion I struggle with being away from my family for the most part of the remainder of our lives- but then if I live there my head argues that the money restrictions and the constraints put on us by limited property choice with other  big compromises to do with freedom there stops me!!!  I am still getting nowhere but nearer a looney bin.

Obviously I don’t know your financial situation, or where you live at present or where you intend to move to in Australia, but you imply you are moving from a cheaper area in UK to a more expensive area in Australia? leaving a lovely house and unable to buy a similar property here, and that you will be financially worse off here. 

One of the reasons my husband wasn’t keen on us getting PR here, when the opportunity arose after living in Australia for 16 years on a long term temporary retirement visa, was that because all our income comes from UK he thought we would pay lots more tax when would be taxed here as  PR. There is actually almost no difference at all! In our case, and apart from our state pension frozen, all other pensions are in our case index linked, so only the exchange rate fluctuations, makes the difference to our income.

We certainly don’t have any less quality of life here than our UK friends. I absolutely prefer our life here, love the outdoor lifestyle, plenty free or very cheap activities around, and even though we were 60 with no immediate family here when we moved here we had no problem establishing a good friendship group. I have previously mentioned that if 2 of our children hadn’t followed us to live here, there could have been a thought that now in our late 70’s we might just have considered moving back to UK,  not what we wanted to do but perhaps practical? 

Take care, hope the above might help xM

Edited June 27, 2022 by ramot

[Nanna]

Ironically where we live isn't cheap but compared to Australia it is.  We lost 54% of our capital to live there and the exchange rates for the our state pension is a concern.  I am/have died I side.

[Nanna]

Our solicitor in Australia advises us we still have the potential to reapply within 5 years of the Re-grant.  Still a concern tho.

[Nanna]

And now hubby has covid just to add to the stress! 

[Tulip1]

8 hours ago, Nanna said:

Ironically where we live isn't cheap but compared to Australia it is.  We lost 54% of our capital to live there and the exchange rates for the our state pension is a concern.  I am/have died I side.

I’m not sure it’s possible to say compared to Australia it is.  Australia, just like the UK has many expensive areas but it also has many cheaper areas.  If you lived in a desirable part in the south of England for example and purchased a house in an undesirable area in Australia you’d probably come out of it with lots to spare.  It’s all relevant.  I’m sure not what the last bit of your post means.  The more I read your comments the more it becomes clear you shouldn’t go.  You have set yourself up to fail before you’ve even booked your flights. 

[Chortlepuss]

3 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I’m not sure it’s possible to say compared to Australia it is.  Australia, just like the UK has many expensive areas but it also has many cheaper areas.  If you lived in a desirable part in the south of England for example and purchased a house in an undesirable area in Australia you’d probably come out of it with lots to spare.  It’s all relevant.  I’m sure not what the last bit of your post means.  The more I read your comments the more it becomes clear you shouldn’t go.  You have set yourself up to fail before you’ve even booked your flights. 

I suspect that the OP is trying to match like for like and hoping that you can sell a seafront property in the South of UK to purchase in Bondi or similar. Waterfront in Australia is astonishingly expensive - local to Brisbane the canal side properties go for $2-3 million and even less flash areas down the coast won’t get much change out of $2 million. And we’re one of the cheaper states! You have to decide whether the trade off is worth it…

[Tulip1]

11 minutes ago, Chortlepuss said:

I suspect that the OP is trying to match like for like and hoping that you can sell a seafront property in the South of UK to purchase in Bondi or similar. Waterfront in Australia is astonishingly expensive - local to Brisbane the canal side properties go for $2-3 million and even less flash areas down the coast won’t get much change out of $2 million. And we’re one of the cheaper states! You have to decide whether the trade off is worth it…

That’s the point though, is it like for like.   If they live in Sandbanks in Dorset where property is in the millions then they can also look at the expensive places you mention. There are many places in the UK where waterfront properties are several million and many where they are far less.  If they have a waterfront property in Jaywick Sands then Bondi will be a stretch to say the least.  I agree though,  they have to decide if the trade off is worth it.  If they wanted to be near family more than anything then buying a smaller/not as nice house wouldn’t matter.  Many do that for many reasons.  I had to do that when I divorced.  The joint house was sold and shared.  I was happier than I’d been for years even though my house was half the size.  A fancy house doesn’t always equate to happiness.  Sometimes other things matter more.  

[Blue Flu]

7 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I’m not sure it’s possible to say compared to Australia it is.  Australia, just like the UK has many expensive areas but it also has many cheaper areas.  If you lived in a desirable part in the south of England for example and purchased a house in an undesirable area in Australia you’d probably come out of it with lots to spare.  It’s all relevant.  I’m sure not what the last bit of your post means.  The more I read your comments the more it becomes clear you shouldn’t go.  You have set yourself up to fail before you’ve even booked your flights. 

No reason why anyone would sell in a desirable location in England for an undesirable location in Australia. Such places would likely be fraught with difficulties, for most let alone a newcomer of a certain age. Not worth it in the slightest. You are correct though the poster should shelve any intent on a permanent move  .  

[ramot]

I sometimes wonder if people compare the exchange rate of the Australian dollar to UK pound? Or just look at the million$ price tag

1 million Australian dollars equates to 564 thousand UK pounds, 

My son’s house in Bristol in good  suburb, 1930’s  semi, with 3 double bed,  one tiny bed, with loft extension, garage too small for one car, and just adequate back garden, on a slightly busy road, 750,000 UK pounds. Equates to $ 1, 330,000

My sons house in good Brisbane suburb,  modern’sh , 4 double bed, 2 car garage, large block, quiet cul de sac $750,000, equates to 425, 776 UK pounds.

Obviously just one example, but interesting 

Edited June 28, 2022 by ramot

[Barnyrubble]

We don't work here  altho in Australia we would have to work part time with son to pay the bills! Financially stupid or what? So if you get sick there you get IN hospital treatment for free but any outpatients appointments,  equipment needed, home care, medicines you pay for? We get everything free.  Another stupid move?

[Nanna]

Will we have to pay for all outpatients appointments, all medicine,  all equipment needed,all homecare etc?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Nanna said:

Will we have to pay for all outpatients appointments, all medicine,  all equipment needed,all homecare etc?

No.  You'll have to find a GP that 'bulk bills", then you'll pay nothing for GP visits or tests.  You'll have to make sure to let your GP know that you want to be treated in the public system for everything, so he doesn't refer you to a private specialist.  Yes you will pay for medicines (it's $5.60 per item if you qualify for a Seniors health card, which you will).  

The fact is, the public health system in Australia is much the same as the NHS.  If you don't want to see a private specialist, you just have to wait for a public one and that might mean a long wait, but it's no worse than the wait you'd have in the UK.  Australians are so used to having private health insurance, they're horrified at the idea of waiting, but it's only because we're all used to paying up and it's made us a bit spoiled. 

My husband doesn't have private health insurance.  He has decided to pay for a couple of small procedures because he didn't want to wait, but he could have done the same in the UK.  My friend's dad doesn't have private health insurance (he's 85) and just relies on the public system.  He needed a spinal fusion and it didn't cost him a cent.

I don't know how benefits work if you're disabled or elderly and need support to live at home.  Maybe someone else can help with that.

[Nanna]

Thank you for that.  

 

An example :  dialysis at home etc.  Not that we need anything but we are all getting older - does stuff like that have to be paid for if you have no health insurance? Any ideas?