Still here and still feel the pull

[Marisawright]

15 minutes ago, Nanna said:

Thank you.  I ghave tried, unsuccessfully  most of the time as Coles says it picks  up I'm not in Australia so access is denied.And Woolworths does not give prices of everything only where their products are sourced.

What a nuisance.  Woolworths does give prices for everything, but maybe you're not seeing them for the same reason Coles is blocking you out.  Aldi doesn't do delivery but they do have pricing on their site, have you tried them?  

[Nanna]

The body corp in the suburbs near our family is often $18000 per year which would reduce our purchase price potential and unbelievably some of the properties have rules that say you must vacate and rent it out for a period each year (usually Dec/Jan) -  some say you can only reside in them yourselves 90 days per year!

We dud consider the retirement village aspect.   Great social life etc. All properties at present sold within a reasonable distance from work and family.  Believe me I think I have covered as many bases as I can.   Oh and I've just downloaded the Coles App and used my families log in details.

According to friends there they spend $250-300 a week without alcohol.  We spend $200 equivalent in UK eating really well and with alcohol.  Believe me with all this stress that's becoming  a daily habit!

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Nanna said:

The body corp in the suburbs near our family is often $18000 per year which would reduce our purchase price potential and unbelievably some of the properties have rules that say you must vacate and rent it out for a period each year (usually Dec/Jan) -  some say you can only reside in them yourselves 90 days per year!

Average body corporate fees for South East Queensland are around $5,000 to $6,000.   If you're looking at complexes with fees of $18,000, they probably have a resident on-site manager and a range of facilities (swimming pool etc).  If you are obliged to vacate or are limited in how long you can stay, then it sounds like the complex is designed for the tourist market rather than the residential market.  If your family lives in a tourist area then that's bound to happen, but there will be ordinary body corps within a reasonable distance. 

Here's a couple of examples of a more "normal" body corp:

https://www.realestate.com.au/property-townhouse-nsw-kingscliff-140240031

https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-pottsville-139885515

As for how much your friends spend -- that's what they spend. Maybe they're extravagant, who knows?  You'll get a better idea once you've used the Coles app.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Marisawright

[Nanna]

Thank you for that. I have actually seen a few properties but it really really annoys me that they either put no price at all or POA or something similar so you have no idea how much any property is. On a different note I was just reading on the return to the UK chat something that made me laugh.  A family visited other family in Australia and when one of the children asked what were they doing today the response they got was "we are going to the beach" to which the child said " what again!?"  and in all honesty I can see where that's coming from. Mind you  Australian beaches are wonderful but I definitely need more than that and if I was not so obsessed with my children and grandchildren I would quite happily stay where I am.  I have had an opportunity to check out your food prices household goods personal items and they are definitely without doubt much more expensive than here.  A neighbour has just told me his only child lives outside Brisbane but the money he saves by Living in the UK in a beach front apartment rather than in Australia pays for him and his wife to visit her every year business class flights!  Food for thought.  

[FirstWorldProblems]

3 hours ago, Nanna said:

Thank you.  I ghave tried, unsuccessfully  most of the time as Coles says it picks  up I'm not in Australia so access is denied.

 

And Woolworths does not give prices of everything only where their products are sourced.

 

If you use a private browser, it can't detect where you are.  I've just tested using Google Chrome in Incognito mode and Woolworths works fine.  I can see the prices of everything and add them to the cart.

 

In Google Chrome, right click on the icon and select "New Incognito Window".  Alternatively with Chrome open, go to the 3 vertical dots to the top right of the screen and you can open it from there.

It's much the same for Microsoft edge.  Right click the icon and select "New InPrivate".  I just tried that on Woolworths and it works too.

[Nanna]

Thank you so much for that.  I will give that a go later.  And thank you everyone for trying to help.  Amazing !!  

[ramot]

If I can be bothered, I’m tempted to take a till receipt from Woolworths and Aldi back with me to compare prices when I go to UK for a month soon.  It would be interesting to really compare some prices of everyday items. 
 

I am sad enough to admit that I did compare Woolworths prices to Aldi’s quite a while ago, and Aldi was much cheaper. I can’t remember by how much, but ever since I have certainly shopped more at Aldi than previously. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by ramot

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Nanna said:

 On a different note I was just reading on the return to the UK chat something that made me laugh.  A family visited other family in Australia and when one of the children asked what were they doing today the response they got was "we are going to the beach" to which the child said " what again!?" 

Tell me about it!  It's something we often say to would-be migrants on these forums.  We ask them why they want to move to Australia and they say, "For the weather" or "For the beach".  We try to point out that really hot weather can be just as unbearable as cold wet weather, and that going to the beach is a novelty that wears off for a lot of people. But of course, no one listens. 

Having said that, there's more to Australia than the beach (depending where you live) and personally I prefer living here. Isn't it lucky everyone's different.

[Nanna]

9 minutes ago, ramot said:

If I can be bothered, I’m tempted to take a till receipt from Woolworths and Aldi back with me to compare prices when I go to UK for a month soon.  It would be interesting to really compare some prices of everyday items. 

If you compare Aldi and Tesco here to your equivalent in Australia,  particularly bananas, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, lettuce, capsicum  sausages, veg, razor blades  etc they are SO much cheaper in the UK.  UK also has Super Saver which is so cheap for cleaning products .  Good job Australians earn more because the difference in food alone is over 24% overall more expensive in Australia.  We buy 3 capsicums for less than $1.50.  

[rammygirl]

36 minutes ago, Nanna said:

If you compare Aldi and Tesco here to your equivalent in Australia,  particularly bananas, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, lettuce, capsicum  sausages, veg, razor blades  etc they are SO much cheaper in the UK.  UK also has Super Saver which is so cheap for cleaning products .  Good job Australians earn more because the difference in food alone is over 24% overall more expensive in Australia.  We buy 3 capsicums for less than $1.50.  

Fruit and veg are much more seasonally priced here than in Uk and it is winter now so hard to compare. Things are also expensive atm because of all the floods and rain some things are four times the usual price. Also higher wages are for farm workers too, there may be a surplus of lemons but they still have to be picked………..

 

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Nanna said:

If you compare Aldi and Tesco here to your equivalent in Australia,  particularly bananas, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, lettuce, capsicum  sausages, veg, razor blades  etc they are SO much cheaper in the UK.  UK also has Super Saver which is so cheap for cleaning products .  Good job Australians earn more because the difference in food alone is over 24% overall more expensive in Australia.  We buy 3 capsicums for less than $1.50.  

We are retired from UK, and have lived here comfortably for 19 years.  Have no idea if food is 24%more expensive here, but possibly other things are cheaper here and it evens out? Petrol for instance, 

Edited August 30, 2022 by ramot

[Nanna]

1 hour ago, ramot said:

We are retired from UK, and have lived here comfortably for 19 years.  Have no idea if food is 24%more expensive here, but possibly other things are cheaper here and it evens out? Petrol for instance, 

I suppose the difference on petrol is Australia is so vast that you travel further distances (?)

[FirstWorldProblems]

20 minutes ago, Nanna said:

I suppose the difference on petrol is Australia is so vast that you travel further distances (?)

Pretty similar annual car mileage in both countries.   Whilst Australia is much bigger, most people are clustered around 5 major population centres and do most of their driving within their greater city area.  Whilst you certainly can drive between them, air travel is more common.

[Toots]

28 minutes ago, Nanna said:

I suppose the difference on petrol is Australia is so vast that you travel further distances (?)

Do your kids who live in Australia worry about the cost of living here?  Would they move back to the UK to live?

[Nanna]

They certainly don't worry about the money and live in beach front homes in very expensive suburbs.  We would go from a beach front home UK to something more expensive for far less , not where we would want to be, living a restricted lifestyle??!!  The reason we decided to move was because I am missing them so much and hate the cold but do I put us in a property that's more expensive than ours here, not as nice ,   be less financially well off, be restricted on travel because of finances and exchange rates and your cost of living  -v- staying in our beautiful beach front home,   financially security,   travel anywhere we want when we want including to Australia each year to be with our beautiful family for a few weeks - because I miss them SO MUCH! My husband  bless him will do whichever I choose but I can't choose as I have said before.  It irks me that I would have restricted my husbands choice of travelling but if we don't do it now we lose our residency.  HELP!!!  2 days to go before I have to sell my home.  The only reason  they would return to UK would be to visit us if we were unwell.   They are beach lovers with children that surf  paddleboard  fish etc.  We are 70!! Love walking the beach and biking and being with them  but is that enough for ever more???? Does that fulfill me?  In the short term no.  In the long term I need to be with them.   .  If only they lived in a place that offered me more  and whats so upsetting is if we say no they will be devastated and we lose any future opportunity.  All comments SO Welcome!!!    Hubby wonders if we should fly in for 6 months, remind ourselves, then if we decide its not for us we still have everything here and if we decide it is we go thru this all again - provided the Australian government grant us another RRV.  That's questionable.

OMG - all friends here say we are crazy to even consider the insecurity.  The family in Australia say just get here and we will sort it. 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Nanna
Typographical errors

[FirstWorldProblems]

All decisions like this involve compromise.  For most people the compromise is easier to live with that the one you face.  The benefits of one choice clearly outweigh the other choice and whilst there is often a degree of sadness in that compromise it's something they can live with.  Your situation clearly involves a far greater degree of compromise whichever one you choose.  I think you are beating yourself up because you don't want to get this wrong.  But there isn't a right and wrong choice to make here.  You're not gambling on red or black where one option is going to be wonderful and the other one a disaster.  Whichever you choose is going to leave a hole for you - there will be elements of your life that you are unhappy with.  That really is terribly unfortunate but if you can reconcile yourself to that, it might help you make the choice.  There is no "wrong".  You won't be admonishing yourself down the line for your decision because you know they both involve really tough elements.

 

Couple of other factors I would throw into the mix here.  You've probably considered these already.

My kids grandparents are late 60's.  My kids are aged 15, 18 & 23.  They love their grandparents, but I've watched as that relationship naturally changes as the kids get older and start to build their own lives.  We just waved the MIL off at Heathrow to return to Sydney after her annual couple of months visiting.  My wife and I felt a mixture of guilt and sympathy that she spent most of her time alone this trip.  When we started doing this the kids were little, we needed help over the holidays and she got to spend wonderful, concentrated time with the kids.  Every waking minute actually. They built a much better relationship than they have with my father who is only 45 mins away as a result.  But this time the eldest has a full time job, the middle one has a part time job, a girlfriend and can drive now and the youngest has a friendship circle and other things she wants to do.  Whilst they made time every day with her, an hour or two out of 24 isn't a lot.  So MIL spent a lot of time watching TV alone.  When you move there, will you get to spend the kind of time with your children and grandchildren that you hope to? 

As I embark on my mid-life crisis, I find myself endlessly trying to gaze into the crystal ball and I am driving my wife batty as I contemplate out loud:

•  "how many years do we have left?"
•  "of those years, how many will be be physically able to do the things we currently value/enjoy doing?"
• "should we just crack on and bring forward our plans to head back to Australia but with it all the compromises that means to our plan?"

None of us have that crystal ball and hopefully we are all still travelling the world and hiking trails in our hundreth year.  But many of us won't.  Reduced mobility and living with multiple health conditions is on the cards for most of us.  How do you want to spend the years you have left where you are still vigourous, energetic and able?

 

[Nanna]

9 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

All decisions like this involve compromise.  For most people the compromise is easier to live with that the one you face.  The benefits of one choice clearly outweigh the other choice and whilst there is often a degree of sadness in that compromise it's something they can live with.  Your situation clearly involves a far greater degree of compromise whichever one you choose.  I think you are beating yourself up because you don't want to get this wrong.  But there isn't a right and wrong choice to make here.  You're not gambling on red or black where one option is going to be wonderful and the other one a disaster.  Whichever you choose is going to leave a hole for you - there will be elements of your life that you are unhappy with.  That really is terribly unfortunate but if you can reconcile yourself to that, it might help you make the choice.  There is no "wrong".  You won't be admonishing yourself down the line for your decision because you know they both involve really tough elements.

 

Couple of other factors I would throw into the mix here.  You've probably considered these already.

My kids grandparents are late 60's.  My kids are aged 15, 18 & 23.  They love their grandparents, but I've watched as that relationship naturally changes as the kids get older and start to build their own lives.  We just waved the MIL off at Heathrow to return to Sydney after her annual couple of months visiting.  My wife and I felt a mixture of guilt and sympathy that she spent most of her time alone this trip.  When we started doing this the kids were little, we needed help over the holidays and she got to spend wonderful, concentrated time with the kids.  Every waking minute actually. They built a much better relationship than they have with my father who is only 45 mins away as a result.  But this time the eldest has a full time job, the middle one has a part time job, a girlfriend and can drive now and the youngest has a friendship circle and other things she wants to do.  Whilst they made time every day with her, an hour or two out of 24 isn't a lot.  So MIL spent a lot of time watching TV alone.  When you move there, will you get to spend the kind of time with your children and grandchildren that you hope to? 

As I embark on my mid-life crisis, I find myself endlessly trying to gaze into the crystal ball and I am driving my wife batty as I contemplate out loud:

•  "how many years do we have left?"
•  "of those years, how many will be be physically able to do the things we currently value/enjoy doing?"
• "should we just crack on and bring forward our plans to head back to Australia but with it all the compromises that means to our plan?"

None of us have that crystal ball and hopefully we are all still travelling the world and hiking trails in our hundreth year.  But many of us won't.  Reduced mobility and living with multiple health conditions is on the cards for most of us.  How do you want to spend the years you have left where you are still vigourous, energetic and able?

 

What if your kids in 2026 decide the UK is more beneficial? Won't that be difficult?

[Nanna]

How do you want to spend the years you have left where you are still vigourous, energetic and able?

Well if life was perfect I'd travel everywhere possible and have  a house in both countries. So that's not possible 

[FirstWorldProblems]

22 minutes ago, Nanna said:

What if your kids in 2026 decide the UK is more beneficial? Won't that be difficult?

Yes it will.  But our situation is different to yours.  After 25 years away we will be going back to spend time with family who are getting older whilst we still can. If our kids decide to stay in the UK we will come back after a while.

If we end up with some of them in Australia and some in the UK we have a tougher decision.  I guess we will live where our favourite lives

[FirstWorldProblems]

12 minutes ago, Nanna said:

How do you want to spend the years you have left where you are still vigourous, energetic and able?

Well if life was perfect I'd travel everywhere possible and have  a house in both countries. So that's not possible 

So in the realms of what is possible, how do you want to spend those really good years?

[Nanna]

3 hours ago, Nanna said:

I suppose the difference on petrol is Australia is so vast that you travel further distances (?)

We are never on the same page at the same time  sadly.  So maybe I need to let hubby decide - altho that could cause resentment in years to come.  

[ramot]

7 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

All decisions like this involve compromise.  For most people the compromise is easier to live with that the one you face.  The benefits of one choice clearly outweigh the other choice and whilst there is often a degree of sadness in that compromise it's something they can live with.  Your situation clearly involves a far greater degree of compromise whichever one you choose.  I think you are beating yourself up because you don't want to get this wrong.  But there isn't a right and wrong choice to make here.  You're not gambling on red or black where one option is going to be wonderful and the other one a disaster.  Whichever you choose is going to leave a hole for you - there will be elements of your life that you are unhappy with.  That really is terribly unfortunate but if you can reconcile yourself to that, it might help you make the choice.  There is no "wrong".  You won't be admonishing yourself down the line for your decision because you know they both involve really tough elements.

 

Couple of other factors I would throw into the mix here.  You've probably considered these already.

My kids grandparents are late 60's.  My kids are aged 15, 18 & 23.  They love their grandparents, but I've watched as that relationship naturally changes as the kids get older and start to build their own lives.  We just waved the MIL off at Heathrow to return to Sydney after her annual couple of months visiting.  My wife and I felt a mixture of guilt and sympathy that she spent most of her time alone this trip.  When we started doing this the kids were little, we needed help over the holidays and she got to spend wonderful, concentrated time with the kids.  Every waking minute actually. They built a much better relationship than they have with my father who is only 45 mins away as a result.  But this time the eldest has a full time job, the middle one has a part time job, a girlfriend and can drive now and the youngest has a friendship circle and other things she wants to do.  Whilst they made time every day with her, an hour or two out of 24 isn't a lot.  So MIL spent a lot of time watching TV alone.  When you move there, will you get to spend the kind of time with your children and grandchildren that you hope to? 

As I embark on my mid-life crisis, I find myself endlessly trying to gaze into the crystal ball and I am driving my wife batty as I contemplate out loud:

•  "how many years do we have left?"
•  "of those years, how many will be be physically able to do the things we currently value/enjoy doing?"
• "should we just crack on and bring forward our plans to head back to Australia but with it all the compromises that means to our plan?"

None of us have that crystal ball and hopefully we are all still travelling the world and hiking trails in our hundreth year.  But many of us won't.  Reduced mobility and living with multiple health conditions is on the cards for most of us.  How do you want to spend the years you have left where you are still vigourous, energetic and able?

 

 

We are going to UK shortly in the reverse visit to your MIL, and are very aware it will be different this visit, as we haven’t been back for 5 years. We have seen them since as they were here in 2019 for our daughter’s wedding, then covid hit.  I don’t think the 12 and 14 year old grandsons will be excitedly jumping up at the front window saying ‘they’re here!!!🥳. We are anticipating this and Luckily we have lots of  friends to visit, so any time with them at weekends will be special, but the last thing we want is to force them to be with us.  We plan to go away with the family over half term to somewhere like Centre Parcs, so everyone can have fun. I’ll report back in November.

Nanna I have no answers for you, only you can decide, and make the most of whichever decision you make.

We originally came here for a few years when we retired, after living as expats in Brunei for a bit more adventure,  we came with no family here, our 3 were in UK. 19 years later we love it here, never left and 2 of our children followed us here. One son and our only grandchildren are in UK, which is the only reason that we go back. The flight back is much less appealing now at our age, which is something for you to consider. We have a good support group of friends here, and plenty of activities we enjoy to keep us busy. The reality is of course that sadly quite a few of our friends here have died over the last few years, and obviously we are definitely getting older, so the reassurance that 2 of our children do live relatively near us  and not on the other side of the world is important as we get older. If all ours were still in UK, I don’t think we would be here, there is a comfort in knowing they are close as we get older. 

Could you consider renting out your UK home for 6 months/a year, and rent here. This might give you a better idea which life suits you best?

I wish you all  the best with whatever you decide, but I know long term, I would choose living near family, and that comes from someone who has led a very independent life, realising that family is more important than independence as I have got older.

 

 

[Nanna]

Hi and thank you.

The flight is gruelling and gets worse each time especially as we leave Australia never knowing when we can meet again.

One of the reasons this began was because we all worried about when only one of us is left or we needed the support of our family as we age so that is a factor in the mix.  Our sons so want us there just in case !  

It's very early morning and I don't sleep now as it is occupying my brain too much.

But as I am more obsessed with them I am asking hubby to decide as he is a bit less emotional altho he would like to live there if it wasn't so damned expensive and we didn't lose so much security.

So 2 days to go to sign on this house or not.  Either way I will cry, scream and I don't feel I will ever recover whichever way it goes. 

 

 

 

[Nanna]

11 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

So in the realms of what is possible, how do you want to spend those really good years?

Being happy with no regrets! 

[Jon the Hat]

If I were in your shoes I think I would rent out my house, and come to Australia and rent somewhere nice near the kids.  You might not be able to BUY nearby, but perhaps you can rent?  Especially if your kids help out a bit.

I saw you posted something about high tax cost selling your home later, but I believe you only pay AU tax on the capital gain from the day you become a tax resident, and in the UK I am pretty sure you pay CGT from the date it stops being your main residence, so in the greater scheme of things not a big issues.