Still here and still feel the pull

[Barnyrubble]

Thank you.  One of us is more inclined to take risks but the end result is we think we need to be with our kids when we are old/alone.  

So do we do it for further down the years or do we lose our RRV and visit occasionally until health no longer permits. What a quandary. 

 

And as UK have a reciorocal agreement we understand from an Australian lawyer that we would be taxed both countries but reclaim from the UK if our only residence is in Australia.

 

So am i reading correctly? If our income is small and we are mainly living from capital do we qualify for a senior's discount card or is it means / capital tested?

And the same question applies to the PBS medicine? 

 

Can anyone answer those questions please ?

[Parley]

16 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Thank you.  One of us is more inclined to take risks but the end result is we think we need to be with our kids when we are old/alone.  

So do we do it for further down the years or do we lose our RRV and visit occasionally until health no longer permits. What a quandary. 

 

And as UK have a reciorocal agreement we understand from an Australian lawyer that we would be taxed both countries but reclaim from the UK if our only residence is in Australia.

 

So am i reading correctly? If our income is small and we are mainly living from capital do we qualify for a senior's discount card or is it means / capital tested?

And the same question applies to the PBS medicine? 

 

Can anyone answer those questions please ?

There is a 4 year waiting period for new residents to get the card or other benefits. But after that you should be ok.

It is all available at the links posted earlier.

[Marisawright]

20 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

And as UK have a reciorocal agreement we understand from an Australian lawyer that we would be taxed both countries but reclaim from the UK if our only residence is in Australia.

So am i reading correctly? If our income is small and we are mainly living from capital do we qualify for a senior's discount card or is it means / capital tested?

And the same question applies to the PBS medicine? 

It's never a good idea to ask lawyers about tax matters, as I know to my cost.  You need a tax agent who is knowledgeable about the tax in both countries, because as you said, the two are related. You will fill out a British tax return and pay tax as a non-resident, then you will declare the British tax on your Australian return and the Tax Office will work out the balance due, if any.  Once a tax agent has done the returns for you the first time, you may well be able to do them yourself thereafter, but it's worth paying to get it done first time through as it gets fiddly.

The Seniors Health Card is income tested but not capital tested.  And you'll need the Seniors Health Card to get the concession prices on prescriptions.  Until you get that, you will pay the same as working people for your medicines which can be up to $30 or $40 per item on the PBS.

A note about the Australian pension.  If you hold a RRV, you are eligible for the Australian pension, provided you meet the residency requirements.  That means you must have been resident in Australia for at least 10 years total.  5 of those years must be continuous.   So even if you don't meet the residency requirements now, you will at some point in the future.  

How much pension you get will depend on how much money you have, because it's means-tested.  Again, you may have too much money now, but the pension will be there as a safety net as your savings dwindle over future years. That may make you feel better about your financial security in the long term.

[Quoll]

So you have a RRV? And so you have lived in Australia and know what to expect? You may have accrued some superannuation from when you lived here and any residence you had will help you to accumulate the years you need to get the Australian pension. 

Why do you need to be near your kids in your old age?  Could they not move back to help you?

[Loopylu]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It's never a good idea to ask lawyers about tax matters, as I know to my cost.  You need a tax agent who is knowledgeable about the tax in both countries, because as you said, the two are related. You will fill out a British tax return and pay tax as a non-resident, then you will declare the British tax on your Australian return and the Tax Office will work out the balance due, if any.  Once a tax agent has done the returns for you the first time, you may well be able to do them yourself thereafter, but it's worth paying to get it done first time through as it gets fiddly.

The Seniors Health Card is income tested but not capital tested.  And you'll need the Seniors Health Card to get the concession prices on prescriptions.  Until you get that, you will pay the same as working people for your medicines which can be up to $30 or $40 per item on the PBS.

A note about the Australian pension.  If you hold a RRV, you are eligible for the Australian pension, provided you meet the residency requirements.  That means you must have been resident in Australia for at least 10 years total.  5 of those years must be continuous.   So even if you don't meet the residency requirements now, you will at some point in the future.  

How much pension you get will depend on how much money you have, because it's means-tested.  Again, you may have too much money now, but the pension will be there as a safety net as your savings dwindle over future years. That may make you feel better about your financial security in the long term.

As a lawyer I agree with Marissa on the tax front. Tax law specialist lawyers are the most expensive lawyers to consult, typically charging a 20% premium on the average commercial lawyer rate. They are also more versed in how to help the very rich and corporations to avoid tax. A tax agent is the way to go. 

[Chortlepuss]

12 hours ago, Barnyrubble said:

And your food bills are up to 40% higher than here plus the cost of living there is 30% higher.   How do you all afford it!?

Remember if you retire here on a UK state pension it is frozen from when you first receive it and with inflation galloping along that is a worry. I am in a similar situation to you but already here in Australia. Approaching 60, will have a fair income  (nothing like Quoll’s)! But will live quite a compromised life because the things I like to do (travel, eating out, theatre etc) and healthcare are extremely expensive. I  have a house in the UK which is tenanted - I don’t want to give it up because then I would have nothing to return to. Nonsense really but psychologically tough. Your post worries me enormously. I have grandkids probably coming in the future, a MH son who needs us. I chose to come to Australia enthusiastically at first and my hubby loves is here. I now miss the UK every day particularly as I get older and yearn for the comfort of home. If it were possible I would be based in UK, come for long holidays to see loved ones. Health is an issue of course and we don’t feel we can justify business class which makes the journey wretched. It’s tough enough here for the 100% committed or the ‘stuck’. Can’t you buy yourself a bit of time? Could you use the proceeds of your sale to buy a smaller UK base and use the rest for long trips/business class? Australia is a high income high expense country - whereas I think of UK as low income low expense (changing now of course). Equivalent if you’re working here in a highly paid job but challenging to live on UK income here. 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Quoll said:

Why do you need to be near your kids in your old age?  Could they not move back to help you?

This is a very good question.   The son is clearly anxious not to have to disrupt his nice life for them, instead it's up to them to disrupt theirs.

[Barnyrubble]

Thank you and that is certainly an option but we have no time to decide as our house sale goes completes in 10 days  leaving us houseless.  Not a good place for me to be.

We could buy smaller property and have a brilliant and quite lavish life style travelling around Europe in a motorhome  as opposed to a compromised lifestyle there in the good weather with our sons.  We could visit, until we are unable or willing to take that horrendous journey, but to keep having to say farewell tears me apart - especially now i am in a mess! Im so emotional and not sleeping or eating properly but it will gave to sort itself out sometime.  Either that or i will jump off a cliff!   And the thought of the last survivor of us being alone without any support isnt something to relish.  

 

[Barnyrubble]

Sorry i missed an earlier thread.  We have no superannuation as it wasnt in the tax system in 81.

Both of our sons live there with our blessing and neither would return to UK. They have businnesses and a very comfortable lifestyle and i wouldnt ask it of them.

They too dont ask it of us. They suggested it for when we are even older so we have their support, have time to enjoy the grandchildren and avoid the UK winters.  

[Quoll]

55 minutes ago, Barnyrubble said:

Thank you and that is certainly an option but we have no time to decide as our house sale goes completes in 10 days  leaving us houseless.  Not a good place for me to be.

We could buy smaller property and have a brilliant and quite lavish life style travelling around Europe in a motorhome  as opposed to a compromised lifestyle there in the good weather with our sons.  We could visit, until we are unable or willing to take that horrendous journey, but to keep having to say farewell tears me apart - especially now i am in a mess! Im so emotional and not sleeping or eating properly but it will gave to sort itself out sometime.  Either that or i will jump off a cliff!   And the thought of the last survivor of us being alone without any support isnt something to relish.  

 

Definitely not a good place for you to be.  I am guessing that pulling the plug on it is not on the agenda.  Maybe you could look at seniors accommodation - you wouldn't be alone and unsupported.  A friend of mine went into one when she was in her early 60s and loves it (she's single and still very independent) but was hedging her bets against the day when she might not be able to cope so well.  I honestly think that if the thought of going is making you feel physically ill then it isn't a wise move to take until you can consider it with equanimity and look forward to going.

[Parley]

I presume you would not have sold your house if you weren't planning to move. Cold feet is understandable but a bit late to back out i expect.

[Barnyrubble]

I am really struggli g to leave my house knowing i cant afford to buy such a lovely location there. 

[Barnyrubble]

P.s. i wouldnt want my son to come back here just for us when he has two businesses there and is very happy with the outdoor life.  

[Blue Flu]

On 18/05/2022 at 23:24, Barnyrubble said:

I am really struggli g to leave my house knowing i cant afford to buy such a lovely location there. 

Looks lovely. I can see why the anguish. 

[Blue Flu]

On 18/05/2022 at 23:27, Barnyrubble said:

P.s. i wouldnt want my son to come back here just for us when he has two businesses there and is very happy with the outdoor life.  

If me, I'd stay put and travel to Australia while able. To feel comfortable in own lovely house and location , in the age among people whom have most likely known for a long time, must be worth a lot. 

[ramot]

The decision of where to live can become harder when you are in your late 70’s - and early 80’s, than in your 60’s.and whether you have children or not, which influences  your advice.

We have always been a very independent couple and still are, we decided to retire to Australia aged 60, with none of our children here. Two of our children decided years ago to follow us here, completely their own decision to move to Australia, and I have to admit even though we and they live our own lives, it is lovely to have them relatively near, now that we are older, realistic not just selfish. We have been lucky  so far with only a couple of times that their help has really been appreciated.

One sad thing to point out, is that as we age, so do our friends, so the support friendship group seems to diminish all of a sudden. It comes as quite a shock when with a group of long term friends, you realise you are one of the youngest in your late 70’s!! where have all those years flown. and although l we all claim to be fairly healthy, the truth is that most do have increasing health problems. The familiarity of your lifestyle and support of your friendship group is very important, and it’s a very hard decision to make, whether to continue with that or move nearer to family.

My only observation to make seeing friends in their late 80’s facing that dilemma, is perhaps consider moving closer to your children when younger? as it’s probably easier to establish yourself in a new area in your 60’s than feeling lonely without your friends if you move much later in life nearer your family, who I’m sure love you but lead busy lives.

Its such a personal decision, especially if moving countries, if all your children live overseas, some will say don’t, other’s will say do it, others say your children should give up their lives and move back to be near you. Ultimately only you can make the decision, and hope it’s the right one.

[Blue Flu]

Nothing especially wise to add on the matter, but will say a house with a view as shown, would be a dream in my reckoning. Surely a view to die for? I don't know where the location is or if there are other factors needing to be considered, but on view alone probably hard to match in Australia. 

I have some concerns about moving for kids. We've a friend, whose daughter lives just streets away from her mother, and much to her surprise, she saw her daughter far more when they lived many miles apart. 

My father's wife brought over her mother from Cromer, Norfolk, where she was well set up at age eighty. She lived less than a year in the house, before parked off to an aged care facility. (after 'her affairs' ) namely house was disposed off back in Norfolk.  (just a 'coincidence' I'm sure) It struck me at the time why not have left her in her familiar environment rather than pack her off to Australia? She was very fit, for her age and lived well into her mid nineties. 

No right way, but it really needs to be considered carefully from the side with the most to lose. 

[Nanna]

Gutted! After years of planning and being honoured to get Residency it looks like the dream to be with our whole family is shattered by lack of money. After buying a very small home there near to them we are now looking at having only $600k and with  UK state pensions  and private pensions equal to about $30k per year to last for life, however long that will be,  and with having to pay private medical etc should we risk it?  By our calculations it will only last 6-7 years at the most provided there are no medical issues and at 70 years of age!!  4  years to wait for senior health cards and no Australian pension.  Worrying!!reckless?

Edited May 28, 2022 by Nanna

[Barnyrubble]

I do hope you receive some realistic advice soon so someone is able to help you come to the right co clusion. This must be so stressful for you. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Barnyrubble
Change of words

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, Nanna said:

Gutted! After years of planning and being honoured to get Residency it looks like the dream to be with our whole family is shattered by lack of money. After buying a very small home there near to them we are now looking at having only $600k and with  UK state pensions  and private pensions equal to about $30k per year to last for life, however long that will be,  and with having to pay private medical etc should we risk it?  By our calculations it will only last 6-7 years at the most provided there are no medical issues and at 70 years of age!!  4  years to wait for senior health cards and no Australian pension.  Worrying!!reckless?

You mentioned "being honourred to get Residency", but I looked at some of your old posts, and you were asking about the 804/864 visas only two years ago.  Can you clarify?

Leaving that aside, I don't see how $600K + pensions would only last 6-7 years?  That means you're expecting to need $130,000 a year to survive, which seems overly pessimistic.  We had a discussion earlier in this thread where Quoll (who's also retired) posted saying she and her husband spend $84K a year, and most people were astonished they spent so much.  We are also a couple around your age and we live very comfortably on about $60K a year.  That's not including any mortgage or rent, of course.

One thing to consider:  if the cost of housing near your family is an issue, have you considered living elsewhere?   I know the instinct is to say, "I'm moving to be near them", but you're not.  You're moving so you don't have to travel 10,000 miles to visit them.  If they were still in Britain, you wouldn't think twice if they were living in London and you were living in Bournemouth.  Why would that be unacceptable in Australia?  You may be able to find cheaper housing further away, but still within easy driving distance.  

I have friends who moved to be near their family in Sydney but can't afford Sydney prices. They settled in the Shoalhaven, a two hour drive from Sydney. It has worked out well for them, with a very social retirement community yet within reach of the family and less financial stress.

Have you got a quote for private medical insurance?  What kind of policy you get will depend on your visa status.  If you have to get Overseas Visitors Insurance, it will be expensive, but it does cover everything, so you won't have other medical costs to worry about. 

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, Barnyrubble said:

I do hope you receive some realistic advice soon so someone is able to help you come to the right co clusion. This must be so stressful for you. 

How are you doing, @Barnyrubble?  

[Nanna]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

How are you doing, @Barnyrubble?  

Not goid at all.  We need to be near the sobs to help run their business and with the grandchildren . We now think we will be taxed on our UK pension which we have tax free here but at 32.5% in Australia?  It just doesn't get better  a quote fir pvt health was £5000 2 years ago.  We calculate with the high house prices a high rates and vist if living about $80k with pvt medical.  So all in all  . So $600k and $20 now In  pensions it would last 19 years if no medical issues - unlikely at our  age and the stress we are under. We have the RRV, I think I mentioned which one earlier.  I can't sleep for fear of what to do.  

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Nanna said:

We need to be near the sobs to help run their business and with the grandchildren

This sounds a little sad to me.    In retirement, you need to be doing all the things you want to and hoped to.  That’s what your family should want for you too.  The above might be everything you wanted for your retirement but if it’s not then why are you worrying yourself sick over it.  If you have a RRV then you have PR and medical insurance isn’t a necessity.  If you are on a bridging visa then that’s different. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Tulip1

[Nanna]

I'm so confused and stressed out. Australia with children around especially if support needed but with extreme weather or UK with more  variety but dread of being alone in old age.  At any rate I might nio reach it cos I am so distressed. How can anyone choose!? It's heart wrenching either way.  

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Nanna said:

We now think we will be taxed on our UK pension which we have tax free here but at 32.5% in Australia?  It just doesn't get better  a quote fir pvt health was £5000 2 years ago.  We calculate with the high house prices a high rates and vist if living about $80k with pvt medical.  So all in all  . So $600k and $20 now In  pensions it would last 19 years if no medical issues - unlikely at our  age and the stress we are under. We have the RRV, I think I mentioned which one earlier.  I can't sleep for fear of what to do.  

Yes you will be taxed on your UK pension in Australia.  It is treated like any other income.  However there is a tax-free threshold so the first $18,200 (each) won't be taxed at all.

If you have an RRV, you are eligible for the Australian pension.  You need 10 years' residency total, of which 5 must be unbroken. So there's your safety net.  It is means-tested, but if your money has run out by then, you'll get the full pension. 

If you have an RRV, you don't need medical insurance. Save your money.  You are covered by full Medicare.  Just find a bulk-billing GP and tell him/her that you only want to use the public system, you don't want private specialists.  Australians will be horrified, but that's only because they've been spoiled--they're used to having private health insurance.   

If you're not one of those executives who has BUPA in the UK, you won't notice the difference between the NHS and the public system here.  It's true there can be long waiting lists, BUT they are no worse (and often better) than on the NHS.  If you never use private health in the UK, you'll never feel the need of it here.  The only snag is that you have to pay full price for dental and spectacles. You may be able to get just "Extras" cover for those, though.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Marisawright