Onshore Defacto Visa Application

[Tom 84]

Hey guys, I am hoping someone can advise me on something. 

My partner and I are emigrating to Aus in 2 weeks and have been compiling evidence for the Defacto Visa application. We are both UK citizens, but she has a skilled Visa and the right to stay in Aus for the next 5 years. 

We decided not to apply offshore as the wait times seemed to be so long and have packed up our lives into boxes and bags ahead of leaving soon. Having spoken with 2 Immi lawyers I am confident that I can enter Aus on a tourist visa before applying for the defacto visa 3 months in when my tourist visa expires. Have saved up enough money to pay for the visa and survive without work for 3 months whilst awaiting my bridging visa. 

However, I have read a few of the forums recently and am slightly concerned about what I might say to the immi officers at border control when I arrive in Aus. I have a one way ticket and am arriving with someone who has a permanent visa.

Has anyone been in this situation before? Can anyone advise what to do?

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, Tom 84 said:

Hey guys, I am hoping someone can advise me on something. 

My partner and I are emigrating to Aus in 2 weeks and have been compiling evidence for the Defacto Visa application. We are both UK citizens, but she has a skilled Visa and the right to stay in Aus for the next 5 years. 

We decided not to apply offshore as the wait times seemed to be so long and have packed up our lives into boxes and bags ahead of leaving soon. Having spoken with 2 Immi lawyers I am confident that I can enter Aus on a tourist visa before applying for the defacto visa 3 months in when my tourist visa expires. Have saved up enough money to pay for the visa and survive without work for 3 months whilst awaiting my bridging visa. 

However, I have read a few of the forums recently and am slightly concerned about what I might say to the immi officers at border control when I arrive in Aus. I have a one way ticket and am arriving with someone who has a permanent visa.

Has anyone been in this situation before? Can anyone advise what to do?

Well if they question you and they may well do you'd have to tell the truth of course and they'd then send you back to the uk on the next flight. Lying to immigration is a criminal offence as is entering the country on a tourist visa with the intention of applying for a different visa.  You state you and your partner are emigrating, you do not have a visa to emigrate. You are playing a risky game which may result in a ban of several years if you are caught. I am shocked that any immigration lawyer would tell you you're ok to enter on a tourist visa, suggest you ask them what you should say at immigration clearance. Why don't you just do it the right way. You may wait longer offshore but the other possibility is your partner will clear immigration and you will be heading home. Then what? She stays there and you here or she returns and you both forget the Oz idea? 

[shaunfreo]

Yes this question has been discussed many times on the forum, and from memory others have done what you plan to do but as Tulip 1 says it’s risky, and a one way ticket is a bit of a giveaway if you are stopped!

[Marisawright]

This has been discussed on another forum and it's all about "intent to remain".    It's not illegal to enter on a tourist visa and then apply for a partner visa.  They will consider how honest you're likely to be - if the tourist visa expires and you don't get the partner visa, will you stay, or will you do the right thing and go back to the UK?  If they have a suspicion you'll overstay, you'll be deported and banned.  They won't look at how cast-iron or otherwise your partner application is, that's not the job of the guys at the airport.

I'd say it's too big a risk.  If you want to do it, buy a return ticket instead, don't arrive with all your worldly goods (send a few boxes with Seven Seas instead), and if you get stopped at Immigration (which is unlikely with a return ticket and a normal holiday-sized amount of luggage) say your girlfriend has brought you over to meet the folks. Otherwise, stay offshore and apply - it is a wait, but offshore applications do get priority.

[ali]

I agree with others that it's a big risk - only you can decide if you want to take it.  Someone posted recently about someone being not allowed entry in similar circumstances recently.

I'm not sure how they process partner visa's and what information that they ask for, but it may raise flags that 3 months after entering the country with a person on PR (who also only entered 3 months prior) you're applying to stay.

Personally, I'd do it the right way to avoid the risk and potential 3 year ban.

[Drumbeat]

I don't believe you can enter on a tourist visa with a one way ticket and I suspect Immigration have ways of finding that out.

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

This has been discussed on another forum and it's all about "intent to remain".    It's not illegal to enter on a tourist visa and then apply for a partner visa.  They will consider how honest you're likely to be - if the tourist visa expires and you don't get the partner visa, will you stay, or will you do the right thing and go back to the UK?  If they have a suspicion you'll overstay, you'll be deported and banned.  They won't look at how cast-iron or otherwise your partner application is, that's not the job of the guys at the airport.

I'd say it's too big a risk.  If you want to do it, buy a return ticket instead, don't arrive with all your worldly goods (send a few boxes with Seven Seas instead), and if you get stopped at Immigration (which is unlikely with a return ticket and a normal holiday-sized amount of luggage) say your girlfriend has brought you over to meet the folks. Otherwise, stay offshore and apply - it is a wait, but offshore applications do get priority.

You are advising the OP to lie to immigration and to put plans in place to disguise what they're planning to do?  Is this good advice? 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Tulip1

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

You are advising the OP to lie to immigration and to put plans in place to disguise what they're planning to do?  Is this good advice? 

Please read my post again. I did NOT advise them to do it.  I said, this is what you'd have to do if you insisted on the onshore option.  I also said I felt it was too big a risk.  

IMO any sensible person would wait and apply onshore. They're making plans for the rest of their lives here, a few months delay is neither here nor there.

[Beffers]

5 hours ago, Drumbeat said:

I don't believe you can enter on a tourist visa with a one way ticket and I suspect Immigration have ways of finding that out.

I've posted elsewhere that someone was recently turned back at the border for doing exactly this and now have a three year ban from entering the country. 

[Quoll]

Just intrigued as to why, if you are in a de facto relationship you weren’t a dependent on her visa? Bit late now, of course, but I venture to suggest that you don’t go spruiking that you are emigrating to Australia in two weeks as you actually don’t have a visa which allows you to do that. I’d send the missus off, delay your own flight and wait until your offshore visa is in your hot clammy little hand.

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Please read my post again. I did NOT advise them to do it.  I said, this is what you'd have to do if you insisted on the onshore option.  I also said I felt it was too big a risk.  

IMO any sensible person would wait and apply onshore. They're making plans for the rest of their lives here, a few months delay is neither here nor there.

Ok, I've read it again and agree and apologise, it doesn't give advice but it does give suggestions (this is what you'd have to do) on how to get round it such as lie to immigration saying you're visiting her parents (who are almost certainly in the uk) and suggestions on flight tickets, sending goods via a different means so it doesn't look obvious and so on. Whilst not actual advice it could well be seen as steering someone in the wrong direction.  What he's doing is not allowed so surely best to just say that rather then offering deliberate alternatives which is wrong. I know you're trying to be helpful but he knows what he's doing is wrong which is why he posted asking for what to say to immigration etc.  He's going to risk it as it's all booked and arranged but I just don't think anyone should be offering helpful ways round it. If it all goes wrong for him and he knows it could then he only has himself to blame. 

[Nemesis]

48 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Just intrigued as to why, if you are in a de facto relationship you weren’t a dependent on her visa? Bit late now, of course, but I venture to suggest that you don’t go spruiking that you are emigrating to Australia in two weeks as you actually don’t have a visa which allows you to do that. I’d send the missus off, delay your own flight and wait until your offshore visa is in your hot clammy little hand.

Could complicate things still further if they were in a de facto reationship when she got her PR, but didn'r declare it. 

[Quoll]

6 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

Could complicate things still further if they were in a de facto reationship when she got her PR, but didn'r declare it. 

True!

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

Ok, I've read it again and agree and apologise, it doesn't give advice but it does give suggestions (this is what you'd have to do) on how to get round it such as lie to immigration saying you're visiting her parents (who are almost certainly in the uk) and suggestions on flight tickets, sending goods via a different means so it doesn't look obvious and so on. Whilst not actual advice it could well be seen as steering someone in the wrong direction.  What he's doing is not allowed so surely best to just say that rather then offering deliberate alternatives which is wrong. I know you're trying to be helpful but he knows what he's doing is wrong which is why he posted asking for what to say to immigration etc.  He's going to risk it as it's all booked and arranged but I just don't think anyone should be offering helpful ways round it. If it all goes wrong for him and he knows it could then he only has himself to blame. 

You're assuming he's stupid. The last person I explained that to thanked me and decided not to proceed, because me pointing out the implications led her to realise what a risk it was.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Marisawright

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

You're assuming he's stupid. The last person I explained that to thanked me and decided not to proceed, because me pointing out the implications led her to realise what a risk it was.

I'm not, I don't think for a minute he's stupid. What he's doing is looking for some hints and tips on how to work the system to give him the best possible chance of entering the country on a tourist visa with the full intention of 'emigrating' without getting caught. He mentioned in his original post he's aware there could be problems and he knows it's the wrong visa. It's lovely you helped the last person see sense but you may also be helping people get through immigration with your suggestions. He could now be rubbing his hands together thinking 'brilliant, I never thought of that one, I'll certainly try that' surely its best just to point out the implications and reasons why you shouldn't and leave it at that. If by doing that you help them realise the risk then great, if not and they still go ahead then on their head be it.  

[starlight7]

With the political situation as it is I would think they are highly likely to check.  I would't risk it, personally and anyway, who wants to be looking over their shoulders all the time?

[ramot]

See W Russel’s (MA)  post, under  quote “Bridging visas in Australia”  further down in Family/Partner other topics. 

Its interesting reading and starts

It is not illegal to enter Australia on a visitors visa with a view to lodging a further application on shore. etc.

 

 

[Marisawright]

33 minutes ago, ramot said:

See W Russel’s (MA)  post, under  quote “Bridging visas in Australia”  further down in Family/Partner other topics. 

Its interesting reading and starts

It is not illegal to enter Australia on a visitors visa with a view to lodging a further application on shore. etc.

That's true, but if you study it, you find that they Immigration still have to look at "intent to remain".