State of the NHS

[DukeNinja]

On 07/12/2017 at 05:54, bristolman said:

Google really is your friend so I'll leave it to you ? I would love more to be spent on the NHS, I think some of it should be run by private companies, much like they do in Australia. A Government has a finite amount of money, unless you are Labour of course. 

I'm sorry, but wasn't a £1 billion money tree found to be growing in the Tory party's backyard recently?

[bristolman]

3 hours ago, newjez said:

From your comments I don't think you actually understand what is happening here.

I do believe the NHS needs to be means tested as happens in Australia.

That is not what is happening. It is being privatised but not in that way.

What is happening is similar to all parts of government. Aspects are being sold to private companies. These then perform 'the same role' at a lower cost.

But they don't perform the same role. They cut corners, perform a lesser role and are no longer accountable. I have seen nurses arguing with cleaners who just ignore them.

In addition, your comments about good experience are meaningless. I attend the Marsden and I have a brilliant experience. It is well funded, although most nurses seem to be Asian rather than European now, they are competent.

My wife attended Worthing and it was an unmitigated disaster.

It's luck of the draw. Your cool stories don't prove anything. It just proves how little you know about the NHS.

So what you're saying is its no different to Australia then or indeed anywhere else, you can have good and bad experience ? Thats not an NHS thing. 

[bristolman]

For those concerned about the terrible privatisation of the NHS its worth mentioning that that just 10% of the budget goes to non NHS organisations, bear in mind this includes dentistry and optical. Not really much to be worried about, any idea that it will become like the US system is farcical, it isnt happening.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/big-election-questions-nhs-privatised

[BacktoDemocracy]

9 hours ago, bristolman said:

For those concerned about the terrible privatisation of the NHS its worth mentioning that that just 10% of the budget goes to non NHS organisations, bear in mind this includes dentistry and optical. Not really much to be worried about, any idea that it will become like the US system is farcical, it isnt happening.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/big-election-questions-nhs-privatised

That is 10% of 116 BILLION which is 11.6 BILLION POUNDS.

SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF CASH IN PRIVATE CONTRACTORS HANDS !!!!

[newjez]

11 hours ago, bristolman said:

So what you're saying is its no different to Australia then or indeed anywhere else, you can have good and bad experience ? Thats not an NHS thing. 

No, that wasn't what I was saying.

[newjez]

11 hours ago, bristolman said:

For those concerned about the terrible privatisation of the NHS its worth mentioning that that just 10% of the budget goes to non NHS organisations, bear in mind this includes dentistry and optical. Not really much to be worried about, any idea that it will become like the US system is farcical, it isnt happening.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/big-election-questions-nhs-privatised

That would be this kingsfund?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/gary-walker/kings-fund-suggests-nhs-fees-but-is-it-really-independent

 

[bristolman]

19 minutes ago, newjez said:

That would be this kingsfund?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/gary-walker/kings-fund-suggests-nhs-fees-but-is-it-really-independent

 

Yes, thats the one. 

[bristolman]

30 minutes ago, newjez said:

No, that wasn't what I was saying.

Well thats a shame as you would have been spot on ?

[Peach]

There are no threats to the NHS!

[bristolman]

4 minutes ago, Peach said:

There are no threats to the NHS!

Thats a bit of a silly thing to say, we must remain diligent. 

[BacktoDemocracy]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/stephen-hawking-lawsuit-foiling-jeremy-hunt-nhs-shake-up

This makes interesting reading about the future of the NHS and how one of our finest brains believes its going

[newjez]

On 08/12/2017 at 08:22, bristolman said:

So what you're saying is its no different to Australia then or indeed anywhere else, you can have good and bad experience ? Thats not an NHS thing. 

What I am saying is that individual experiences don't tell you anything.

My brother recently had a horrible experience in a private hospital in Perth. Came round after surgery to remove a lump from his tongue. Still very groggy, guy with a sandwich cart offered him a sandwich. Couldn't feel anything in his mouth, too groggy to realise the danger.

Anyway, sparing you the details.

The surgeon said he couldn't go under a general again as he had just come out of one. So they used a hundred stitches to put his chewed tongue back together under a local.

Individual experiences positive or negative mean jack.

You have to look at the numbers and listen to the experts.

[calNgary]

The media is saying today that a thrid of GPs are closing their books to new patients, this is on top of those who have already close surgerys down, leaving many without a GP. Surely this will only add presure to already struggling A and E depatrments? what other alternatives do newcomers have ?

Cal x

[Sandgroper]

On 12/9/2017 at 04:30, bristolman said:

Thats a bit of a silly thing to say, we must remain diligent. 

'we must remain diligent' it's pretty obvious if something doesn't fit your rose tinted view of everything the UK has you will choose to ignore it, major changes are already starting to happen in the NHS. Maybe not in your lifetime but certainly your childrens the NHS will see massive wholesale changes in the way it is run and delivered. But she'll be right eh.

[bristolman]

2 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

'we must remain diligent' it's pretty obvious if something doesn't fit your rose tinted view of everything the UK has you will choose to ignore it, major changes are already starting to happen in the NHS. Maybe not in your lifetime but certainly your childrens the NHS will see massive wholesale changes in the way it is run and delivered. But she'll be right eh.

I think it's probably more important for those in Australia to be concerned about the massive funding hole in that system really. Yes I fully expect there to be significant changes in the way the NHS is run and delivered, although it is ranked as the No1 system in the world there appears to be massive inefficiencies and wastage. Its very important to get these under control, for instance there are lots of drugs and even food items on the prescription list that could and should be removed. I feel that some services should be delivered by private companies or organisations, much like in Australia. There is certainly need for changes to be made, I agree. 

[Sandgroper]

2 hours ago, bristolman said:

I think it's probably more important for those in Australia to be concerned about the massive funding hole in that system really. Yes I fully expect there to be significant changes in the way the NHS is run and delivered, although it is ranked as the No1 system in the world there appears to be massive inefficiencies and wastage. Its very important to get these under control, for instance there are lots of drugs and even food items on the prescription list that could and should be removed. I feel that some services should be delivered by private companies or organisations, much like in Australia. There is certainly need for changes to be made, I agree. 

Lets remember this thread is about the state of the NHS though we know how much you dislike taking a thread of topic so lets not worry about the Australian system, you could always start another thread if you are bothered about it 

Ranked No1 service in the world  depending on which list you are reading today, Melbourne is also the best place to live in the world apparently! Don't be naive enough to believe everything you read. 

If you feel certain parts of the NHS should be run by private companies and you are happy for that to happen you really have no understanding about why it was founded and for what reasons, you will have a system based on the US before you know it but like I said maybe not in your lifetime.

[bristolman]

4 minutes ago, Sandgroper said:

Lets remember this thread is about the state of the NHS though we know how much you dislike taking a thread of topic so lets not worry about the Australian system, you could always start another thread if you are bothered about it 

Ranked No1 service in the world  depending on which list you are reading today, Melbourne is also the best place to live in the world apparently! Don't be naive enough to believe everything you read. 

If you feel certain parts of the NHS should be run by private companies and you are happy for that to happen you really have no understanding about why it was founded and for what reasons, you will have a system based on the US before you know it but like I said maybe not in your lifetime.

Oh it never hurts to compare it to other systems around the world, just so we fully realise how good we have it. The Australian system is far closer to that of the US and will no doubt move even closer in coming years. Fortunately there is virtually no chance of the NHS becoming anything like the US, they are poles apart. Yes you are probably right, The World Health Organisation ranks it 18th which seems low but even then it's well above many other Western countries as you can see in the link so there is always room for improvement. 

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

[bristolman]

Much to be proud of but changes do need to be made, that is clear. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey

[BacktoDemocracy]

43 minutes ago, bristolman said:

Much to be proud of but changes do need to be made, that is clear. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey

Why do you think private firms will give you a better service, private firms have only one objective, to make a profit, why would they increase staffing levels , ensure there is spare bed and staff capacity to cope with emergencies, if they have monopolistic control why would they worry if their death rates rise, why would they pay for the most advanced drugs when it's cheaper to let people die.

Wake up private money making industries have only one motive in taking over the delivery of SOCIAL SERVICES it is to make money and it doesn't matter how many regulations are in place they will always find ways round them as the new school academies are showing, wake up it could be your grandma waiting 12 months for a hip replacement!!!!

Edited December 11, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

58 minutes ago, bristolman said:

Much to be proud of but changes do need to be made, that is clear. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey

You seem to always work from a premise that because organisations are based around socialised provision that everyone working in them is inherently lazy and workshy and that everyone is seeking to rip the system off because no one ever refuses them what they want. 

If you ever worked for a large organisation you would have seen much more petty and major corruption and skiving, look at BHS, look at RBS, the stories of firms going to the wall because of stripping out  profits and not paying pension contributions for the workforce are legion.

You are politically antagonistic of anything which works well for the common man, you stigmatise public servants because you just want to have a scapegoat, someone to make responsible personally than ever look at the system and say that cannot be right it is exploiting people.

Edited December 11, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

1 hour ago, bristolman said:

Much to be proud of but changes do need to be made, that is clear. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey

I do not know whether you ever think through the implications of your adherence to a Daily Mail view of the world, your stereotyping of the world into the deserving poor and the feckless poor, how private enterprise, regardless of how corrupt it is, is always better than anything provided by a social organisation run by professionally qualified staff.

It seems like the people who would benefit most from independent, non profit making, non discriminatory   services are the ones who protest that private profit driven entities are so much better at looking after people. 

[Sandgroper]

18 hours ago, bristolman said:

Oh it never hurts to compare it to other systems around the world, just so we fully realise how good we have it. The Australian system is far closer to that of the US and will no doubt move even closer in coming years. Fortunately there is virtually no chance of the NHS becoming anything like the US, they are poles apart. Yes you are probably right, The World Health Organisation ranks it 18th which seems low but even then it's well above many other Western countries as you can see in the link so there is always room for improvement. 

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

You really can't see what is happening in front of your own eyes can you, which is a shame because if you refuse to see it nothing will change and the cuts in funding and decline in service will just be allowed to continue.

Not sure where you see the benefits of privatization goes completely against the whole ethos of the NHS. Aged care is being sold off and some of the outcomes are pretty shocking there is no compassion in business.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

Ranked No1 service in the world  depending on which list you are reading today, Melbourne is also the best place to live in the world apparently! Don't be naive enough to believe everything you read. 

Its interesting as I read the link earlier in the thread in which it said about the NHS being ranked 1st overall. Yet in outcomes it ranks in 10th  

I went and did some more reading up on it. Found this one https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey

'But the NHS came 10th on healthcare outcomes, a category that measures how successful treatment has been – a significant weakness that was also identified in 2014. The experts concluded that the UK does very poorly in relative terms on five-year survival rates for breast and bowel cancer, and deaths among people admitted to hospital after a stroke, for example.

An NHS England spokesperson said: “This international research is a welcome reminder of the fundamental strengths of the NHS, and a call to arms in support of the NHS Forward View practical plan to improve cancer, mental health and other outcomes of care.”'

[starlight7]

I think the conclusion to be reached is avoid hospitals if you can- they are not holiday camps and they are, of course, full of germs so the likelihood of contracting an infection other than the original reason for admission is quite high. Wherever you are in the world.

[bristolman]

2 hours ago, starlight7 said:

I think the conclusion to be reached is avoid hospitals if you can- they are not holiday camps and they are, of course, full of germs so the likelihood of contracting an infection other than the original reason for admission is quite high. Wherever you are in the world.

I had a nasty infection following an operation on my spine about 10 years ago, hospitals really are the worst places to be if sick.