Snap General Election Called

[BacktoDemocracy]

I still find it incomprehensible that working people believe that their best interests lie with a party that represents big money and exploitation of the working man and woman and whatever they say always will do.

How easily peoples allegiance is bought with promises " that you too can enjoy the benefits of the rich" membership of the golf club, access to the Club and the Masons, whilst always never quite being part of the real upper classes, always just being outside the real "in" crowd, always voting "the right way" for  the "right kind of chap" but never being " the right chap", and all the time having to pay through the nose for the privileges of the upper classes, the private education, the tutors, the private healthcare, the right motor, the right address in the right suburb, the charity auctions and the charity balls.

Always trying to break into the next micro layer of English society, always playing a part, always looking for someone to look down on and making  it their fault for why you're not quite as rich as the club captain.

A life spent trying and never quite making it, always needing a scapegoat and what for, just to feel superior 

 

[amibovered]

9 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

I still find it incomprehensible that working people believe that their best interests lie with a party that represents big money and exploitation of the working man and woman and whatever they say always will do.

How easily peoples allegiance is bought with promises " that you too can enjoy the benefits of the rich" membership of the golf club, access to the Club and the Masons, whilst always never quite being part of the real upper classes, always just being outside the real "in" crowd, always voting "the right way" for  the "right kind of chap" but never being " the right chap", and all the time having to pay through the nose for the privileges of the upper classes, the private education, the tutors, the private healthcare, the right motor, the right address in the right suburb, the charity auctions and the charity balls.

Always trying to break into the next micro layer of English society, always playing a part, always looking for someone to look down on and making  it their fault for why you're not quite as rich as the club captain.

A life spent trying and never quite making it, always needing a scapegoat and what for, just to feel superior 

 

Doesn't that tell you something about the Labour party?

[BacktoDemocracy]

26 minutes ago, amibovered said:

Doesn't that tell you something about the Labour party?

What it tells me is that messages about self interest and individualism are stronger than messages about community and joint enterprise for everyone's benefit.

Which one do you prefer.

[amibovered]

2 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

What it tells me is that messages about self interest and individualism are stronger than messages about community and joint enterprise for everyone's benefit.

Which one do you prefer.

What it tells you is not the point, you'd vote Labour no matter what.

[Rallyman]

Just reading Diane Abbott is stepping down as Home Secretary due to ill health 

 

[BacktoDemocracy]

1 hour ago, amibovered said:

What it tells you is not the point, you'd vote Labour no matter what.

I posed a question and you choose not to even engage and simply guess at what my voting intention is rather than consider the points made, just because I question how a working man can support the party of capital doesn't blind me to the faults of the left leaning parties, it's just that I'd rather live with those defects than the avarice of the party for capitalists.

[amibovered]

16 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

I posed a question and you choose not to even engage and simply guess at what my voting intention is rather than consider the points made, just because I question how a working man can support the party of capital doesn't blind me to the faults of the left leaning parties, it's just that I'd rather live with those defects than the avarice of the party for capitalists.

OK, the working class people won't vote for Labour because, they think they represent a London based liberal elite and do not have the same aspirations as them, they don't believe they are competent to govern the country and they don't want the children of today to be paying off Labours debts for the rest of their lives. 

[Gbye grey sky]

Is it just me or are the right becoming increasingly desparate?  Chucking as much mud as possible in the last few days on the basis that some of it surely must stick.

When you think politics cannot sink lower the Tories find new depths to plumb.

[newjez]

23 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Is it just me or are the right becoming increasingly desparate?  Chucking as much mud as possible in the last few days on the basis that some of it surely must stick.

When you think politics cannot sink lower the Tories find new depths to plumb.

They have realised that they have screwed up.

[amibovered]

Just you.

[newjez]

1 minute ago, amibovered said:

Just you.

Come on, the right wing papers are having fits.

[amibovered]

2 minutes ago, newjez said:

Come on, the right wing papers are having fits.

Are they, I haven't read any.

[BacktoDemocracy]

31 minutes ago, newjez said:

Come on, the right wing papers are having fits.

The DM was positively hyperventilating this morning Dacre and Rothermere needed large paper sacks over their heads and a good slapping or they're going to end up in a psych ward.

[VERYSTORMY]

Some facts on Comrade Corbyn:

Fact 1. He voted against every piece of anti terror legislation

Fact 2. He did call Hamas his friends

Fact 3. He did invite a convicted IRA bomber to Westminster hours after they bombed

Fact 4. Only a year  before becoming leader he went to North Africa and laid a wreath in remembrance of the Islamic terrorists that carried out the Munich Olympics attack.

A vote for Corbyn is a vote in support of terrorism. You might as well put a flag pole in your garden and run up the black flag

[BacktoDemocracy]

1 hour ago, amibovered said:

OK, the working class people won't vote for Labour because, they think they represent a London based liberal elite and do not have the same aspirations as them, they don't believe they are competent to govern the country and they don't want the children of today to be paying off Labours debts for the rest of their lives. 

And the relentless years of right wing propaganda  by the Tory press has softened peoples understanding of what benefits there are in a Labour govt, there has always been a cultural and economic gap between London and the North even back in my childhood in the 50's in a mill town on the edge of Manchester the gap was infinitely bigger than today, so what has changed, the relentless attacks by a right wing press.

[BacktoDemocracy]

22 minutes ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Some facts on Comrade Corbyn:

Fact 1. He voted against every piece of anti terror legislation

Fact 2. He did call Hamas his friends

Fact 3. He did invite a convicted IRA bomber to Westminster hours after they bombed

Fact 4. Only a year  before becoming leader he went to North Africa and laid a wreath in remembrance of the Islamic terrorists that carried out the Munich Olympics attack.

A vote for Corbyn is a vote in support of terrorism. You might as well put a flag pole in your garden and run up the black flag

Gosh, what about having a thought about what the alternative is , toadying up to the maddest gaffe prone US president ever, antagonising our closest neighbours when we need their support, continuing to sell arms on a massive scale to countries which support a radical version of Islam which they want to make dominant in the Islamic world, consider statements such as "no deal is better than a bad deal" what a fatuous piece of gobbledygook that is, guaranteed to make the negotiations on brexit productive, a Prime Minister who still it seems has no doubts about cutting 1,100 firearms trained officers and 20,000 police officers.

In comparison Corbyn looks positively well prepared.

Just consider, we are looking for someone to lead a country which has a poor economy and facing an increasingly hostile Europe which is antagonised almost daily by abuse from May's party or the Tory press, Corbyn has at times talked to people who are on the fringes but he seems to have always been trying to reach accord thro talking rather than bombing the f**k out of people, which I think all commentators with half a brain agree has got us into the impasse we are in now. 

[amibovered]

46 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

And the relentless years of right wing propaganda  by the Tory press has softened peoples understanding of what benefits there are in a Labour govt, there has always been a cultural and economic gap between London and the North even back in my childhood in the 50's in a mill town on the edge of Manchester the gap was infinitely bigger than today, so what has changed, the relentless attacks by a right wing press.

Yeah, brainwashed, that's the problem.

[amibovered]

Even the Leftie can see the problem

Quote

If he wants to be Prime Minister, Jeremy Corbyn should get rid of Diane Abbott immediately

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/diane-abbott-sky-news-interview-embarrassment-offensive-jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister-must-get-rid-a7774891.html

How anyone can vote for this shower is beyond me!

[newjez]

3 hours ago, amibovered said:

Are they, I haven't read any.

Half the DM apparently.

[VERYSTORMY]

2 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Gosh, what about having a thought about what the alternative is , toadying up to the maddest gaffe prone US president ever, antagonising our closest neighbours when we need their support, continuing to sell arms on a massive scale to countries which support a radical version of Islam which they want to make dominant in the Islamic world, consider statements such as "no deal is better than a bad deal" what a fatuous piece of gobbledygook that is, guaranteed to make the negotiations on brexit productive, a Prime Minister who still it seems has no doubts about cutting 1,100 firearms trained officers and 20,000 police officers.

In comparison Corbyn looks positively well prepared.

Just consider, we are looking for someone to lead a country which has a poor economy and facing an increasingly hostile Europe which is antagonised almost daily by abuse from May's party or the Tory press, Corbyn has at times talked to people who are on the fringes but he seems to have always been trying to reach accord thro talking rather than bombing the f**k out of people, which I think all commentators with half a brain agree has got us into the impasse we are in now. 

First, May hasn't toadying up to Trump. She has offered a degree of respect that the office of the President of the USA deserves. I think he is as mad as a hatter, but, I still respect his office and most importantly I respect the fact the USA is our single biggest trading partner - the EU is collection of countries not a nation. It is also a country with which we have a surplus trade relationship. So, while not behaving like stuffed muppets like some, she has stated where she thinks he is wrong.

No deal is better than a bad deal is perfectly correct. Unlike Corbyn who has effectively said he will take what ever is offered like a beggar asking for more scraps.

Yes, cutting police was wrong. But, unlike what the Grund and Indi seem to think, it would not have stopped a single terror attack. Not one. Also, consider Corbyn has stated as recently as the Paris attacks that the police should not have been permitted to shoot the terrorists. He would have been happy to see many more innocent lives lost than some of his friends.

Where on earth do you get we have a poor economy? We have effective zero unemployment, we have growth that is among the highest in the world, we have a manufacturing sector that has just reported its best quarter since the GFC and a construction sector that states it is struggling with demand.

As for Corbyn talking to people on the "fringes" I nearly just choked on my tea. You call people who have and want to commit act of terror and kill innocent people just on the fringe???????? Don't forget he is no pacifist. Or at least not when it is the right cause. This is a man who stated "the bullet and bomb is the right way to a united Ireland" - at an IRA gathering. Or printed as editor after a riot in which over 200 police were injured "the fighting was pretty good, but hopefully next time it will be better organized or that he gave a speech to 200 people dressed as suicide bombers and chanting for death. You call this on the fringe?

This is a man who used 20k of his own money to help prevent the extradition of a terrorist to Germany who was wanted over attempting to murder the wife of a soldier.

He never wanted to bring peace to Ireland by his association with the IRA, in fact, until the election campaign, he pretty much refuted it. He actually voted against peace.

 

[Collie]

45 minutes ago, VERYSTORMY said:

He never wanted to bring peace to Ireland by his association with the IRA, in fact, until the election campaign, he pretty much refuted it. He actually voted against peace.

 

Can you expand on this please?

Peace in NI was achieved by talking to both sides through a number of administrations in both countries.  It was John Major and Albert Reynolds who kickstarted it with John Hume and David Trimble.  Later followed through by Blair governments in the UK and the Bruton followed by Ahern goverments in Ireland.

Point of information - Germany is the UK's largest trading partner (c.14% bigger than the US) and the UK does about 4.5 times more trade within the EU than with the US.

[newjez]

1 hour ago, VERYSTORMY said:

First, May hasn't toadying up to Trump. She has offered a degree of respect that the office of the President of the USA deserves. I think he is as mad as a hatter, but, I still respect his office and most importantly I respect the fact the USA is our single biggest trading partner - the EU is collection of countries not a nation. It is also a country with which we have a surplus trade relationship. So, while not behaving like stuffed muppets like some, she has stated where she thinks he is wrong.

No deal is better than a bad deal is perfectly correct. Unlike Corbyn who has effectively said he will take what ever is offered like a beggar asking for more scraps.

Yes, cutting police was wrong. But, unlike what the Grund and Indi seem to think, it would not have stopped a single terror attack. Not one. Also, consider Corbyn has stated as recently as the Paris attacks that the police should not have been permitted to shoot the terrorists. He would have been happy to see many more innocent lives lost than some of his friends.

Where on earth do you get we have a poor economy? We have effective zero unemployment, we have growth that is among the highest in the world, we have a manufacturing sector that has just reported its best quarter since the GFC and a construction sector that states it is struggling with demand.

As for Corbyn talking to people on the "fringes" I nearly just choked on my tea. You call people who have and want to commit act of terror and kill innocent people just on the fringe???????? Don't forget he is no pacifist. Or at least not when it is the right cause. This is a man who stated "the bullet and bomb is the right way to a united Ireland" - at an IRA gathering. Or printed as editor after a riot in which over 200 police were injured "the fighting was pretty good, but hopefully next time it will be better organized or that he gave a speech to 200 people dressed as suicide bombers and chanting for death. You call this on the fringe?

This is a man who used 20k of his own money to help prevent the extradition of a terrorist to Germany who was wanted over attempting to murder the wife of a soldier.

He never wanted to bring peace to Ireland by his association with the IRA, in fact, until the election campaign, he pretty much refuted it. He actually voted against peace.

 

Are you saying he voted against the good Friday agreement?

[BacktoDemocracy]

2 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

First, May hasn't toadying up to Trump. She has offered a degree of respect that the office of the President of the USA deserves. I think he is as mad as a hatter, but, I still respect his office and most importantly I respect the fact the USA is our single biggest trading partner - the EU is collection of countries not a nation. It is also a country with which we have a surplus trade relationship. So, while not behaving like stuffed muppets like some, she has stated where she thinks he is wrong.

No deal is better than a bad deal is perfectly correct. Unlike Corbyn who has effectively said he will take what ever is offered like a beggar asking for more scraps.

Yes, cutting police was wrong. But, unlike what the Grund and Indi seem to think, it would not have stopped a single terror attack. Not one. Also, consider Corbyn has stated as recently as the Paris attacks that the police should not have been permitted to shoot the terrorists. He would have been happy to see many more innocent lives lost than some of his friends.

Where on earth do you get we have a poor economy? We have effective zero unemployment, we have growth that is among the highest in the world, we have a manufacturing sector that has just reported its best quarter since the GFC and a construction sector that states it is struggling with demand.

As for Corbyn talking to people on the "fringes" I nearly just choked on my tea. You call people who have and want to commit act of terror and kill innocent people just on the fringe???????? Don't forget he is no pacifist. Or at least not when it is the right cause. This is a man who stated "the bullet and bomb is the right way to a united Ireland" - at an IRA gathering. Or printed as editor after a riot in which over 200 police were injured "the fighting was pretty good, but hopefully next time it will be better organized or that he gave a speech to 200 people dressed as suicide bombers and chanting for death. You call this on the fringe?

This is a man who used 20k of his own money to help prevent the extradition of a terrorist to Germany who was wanted over attempting to murder the wife of a soldier.

He never wanted to bring peace to Ireland by his association with the IRA, in fact, until the election campaign, he pretty much refuted it. He actually voted against peace.

 

Why do you state so categorically that cutting police has had no affect, some of these attackers were reported and there was no follow up investigation, that is the clearest indication ever of a lack of manpower, if you want to hear who is becoming radicalised you have to have feet on the ground listening to peoples complaints and recognising what is happening on the streets.

I feel like your whole rant is inspired by the fact that the Tories slash and burn on all fronts has been shown to be what it is, a collection of lies and subterfuges to hide their complete incompetence and disdain for anyone who is not one of us. 

From Cameron's inability to stand up to his right wing and lack of preparedness through to May's incompetence and lack of a real set of policies beyond pure desire to exploit what she thought was a weak and disorganised Labour party. Well now she looks weak and disorganised with a party that is a laughing stock,  it will not matter if she wins this election her authority is gone and at the first opportunity she will be challenged by some other right wing plonker and her antagonising of Europe is going to ensure this country is shat on from a great height. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

2 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

First, May hasn't toadying up to Trump. She has offered a degree of respect that the office of the President of the USA deserves. I think he is as mad as a hatter, but, I still respect his office and most importantly I respect the fact the USA is our single biggest trading partner - the EU is collection of countries not a nation. It is also a country with which we have a surplus trade relationship. So, while not behaving like stuffed muppets like some, she has stated where she thinks he is wrong.

No deal is better than a bad deal is perfectly correct. Unlike Corbyn who has effectively said he will take what ever is offered like a beggar asking for more scraps.

Yes, cutting police was wrong. But, unlike what the Grund and Indi seem to think, it would not have stopped a single terror attack. Not one. Also, consider Corbyn has stated as recently as the Paris attacks that the police should not have been permitted to shoot the terrorists. He would have been happy to see many more innocent lives lost than some of his friends.

Where on earth do you get we have a poor economy? We have effective zero unemployment, we have growth that is among the highest in the world, we have a manufacturing sector that has just reported its best quarter since the GFC and a construction sector that states it is struggling with demand.

As for Corbyn talking to people on the "fringes" I nearly just choked on my tea. You call people who have and want to commit act of terror and kill innocent people just on the fringe???????? Don't forget he is no pacifist. Or at least not when it is the right cause. This is a man who stated "the bullet and bomb is the right way to a united Ireland" - at an IRA gathering. Or printed as editor after a riot in which over 200 police were injured "the fighting was pretty good, but hopefully next time it will be better organized or that he gave a speech to 200 people dressed as suicide bombers and chanting for death. You call this on the fringe?

This is a man who used 20k of his own money to help prevent the extradition of a terrorist to Germany who was wanted over attempting to murder the wife of a soldier.

He never wanted to bring peace to Ireland by his association with the IRA, in fact, until the election campaign, he pretty much refuted it. He actually voted against peace.

 

Just point me to one reliable verified source for Jermy Corbyn saying that the Frenvh police should not have shot attackers.

I fear you might be listening to some questionable sources.

I must say that I would expect a moderator to take a little more measured view of a series of highly contentious issues.

[newjez]

2 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

First, May hasn't toadying up to Trump. She has offered a degree of respect that the office of the President of the USA deserves. I think he is as mad as a hatter, but, I still respect his office and most importantly I respect the fact the USA is our single biggest trading partner - the EU is collection of countries not a nation. It is also a country with which we have a surplus trade relationship. So, while not behaving like stuffed muppets like some, she has stated where she thinks he is wrong.

No deal is better than a bad deal is perfectly correct. Unlike Corbyn who has effectively said he will take what ever is offered like a beggar asking for more scraps.

Yes, cutting police was wrong. But, unlike what the Grund and Indi seem to think, it would not have stopped a single terror attack. Not one. Also, consider Corbyn has stated as recently as the Paris attacks that the police should not have been permitted to shoot the terrorists. He would have been happy to see many more innocent lives lost than some of his friends.

Where on earth do you get we have a poor economy? We have effective zero unemployment, we have growth that is among the highest in the world, we have a manufacturing sector that has just reported its best quarter since the GFC and a construction sector that states it is struggling with demand.

As for Corbyn talking to people on the "fringes" I nearly just choked on my tea. You call people who have and want to commit act of terror and kill innocent people just on the fringe???????? Don't forget he is no pacifist. Or at least not when it is the right cause. This is a man who stated "the bullet and bomb is the right way to a united Ireland" - at an IRA gathering. Or printed as editor after a riot in which over 200 police were injured "the fighting was pretty good, but hopefully next time it will be better organized or that he gave a speech to 200 people dressed as suicide bombers and chanting for death. You call this on the fringe?

This is a man who used 20k of his own money to help prevent the extradition of a terrorist to Germany who was wanted over attempting to murder the wife of a soldier.

He never wanted to bring peace to Ireland by his association with the IRA, in fact, until the election campaign, he pretty much refuted it. He actually voted against peace.

 

I believe Corbyn was in support of the good Friday agreement. I would like to see evidence, (and by evidence I don't mean a 600 page document with no references) of him being opposed.

He opposed the Anglo Irish agreement. But even Thatcher regretted that. It caused an escalation of the violence. It was opposed by most NI parties, especially the unionists, so I'm unsure how this strengthens corbyns links with the IRA.

Like most of your posts you put in a seed of truth and water it with lies. You really need to get out more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34808797

Edited June 7, 2017 by newjez