Outlook for economy not good

[flag of convenience]

Yep, I've noticed a few complaints from you about what tradies are earning and how you think they should be brought down a peg or two flag.

 

Yep. A nation can hardly be held to ransom by the outrageous costs involved. WA charge the most. But I suspect the coming storm will correct a few oddities and a return to a more logical state of being.

[flag of convenience]

Another thread that's going to turn into a doom and gloom, especially about Perth thread. Honestly there is a downturn and I'm sure it's hurting some people. Not really noticed any difference in peoples outlook. It still comes across as fairly upbeat to me. Perth is still busy at nights, I was out Tuesday to watch Nickelback with my youngest, pubs and bars were busy on the way to the arena, lots of people out enjoying themselves, good crowd at the concert. Ears are just recovering.

 

Maybe they are all deluded and spending the last few dollars before going into hibernation for the next couple of years.:wink:

 

Funny we must be out in different Perth's. I had two hours to kill on Tuesday night and walked the length and breath of North Bridge and CBD and couldn't believe how quiet it was. (well could actually) Only a handful of Asian eating houses had any numbers of people in them. Some of the pubs about a dozen people. North Bridge actually had far less people around the CBD which came as a little of a surprise. But a boom city of approaching 2 million people? No way. It would equate a medium sized European town of 200,000.

[newjez]

If anyone knows how tax rules work VS it's tradies. I think you are seriously underestimating how much they earn too. There's a big difference between what they actually make and what they declare to the taxman. My son's a sparkie, bought himself a XR6 Turbo Ute as soon as he could and the tax rebates he used to get meant is was a better deal than my company car.

 

I remember visiting a farmer friend years ago. He had a load of 4wd sitting in a row near the house. I asked him about them, and the said the government let them write one off every year. So he bought a new one every year. I asked why he didn't sell the old ones. Who to he replied?

 

The govt can encourage people to spend, but generally it just makes them inefficient.

[Paul1Perth]

Funny we must be out in different Perth's. I had two hours to kill on Tuesday night and walked the length and breath of North Bridge and CBD and couldn't believe how quiet it was. (well could actually) Only a handful of Asian eating houses had any numbers of people in them. Some of the pubs about a dozen people. North Bridge actually had far less people around the CBD which came as a little of a surprise. But a boom city of approaching 2 million people? No way. It would equate a medium sized European town of 200,000.

 

We went in the Aviary and the Moon and Sixpence and both were pretty full on Tuesday night. Mind you we had come in on a pretty packed train as public transport is free with the Nickelback ticket price and I guess everyone was stopping for a pint on the way to the gig. Fast Eddies was pretty busy after the gig too.

 

Go to any City on Tuesday night flag and I think they are all generally quite. Back in student days in Brum it was student and nurses night, happy hours galore and free entry to a few clubs. Wednesday morning at Uni was not well attended.

[Paul1Perth]

I remember visiting a farmer friend years ago. He had a load of 4wd sitting in a row near the house. I asked him about them, and the said the government let them write one off every year. So he bought a new one every year. I asked why he didn't sell the old ones. Who to he replied?

 

The govt can encourage people to spend, but generally it just makes them inefficient.

 

You're telling me that if he had put a year old 4 wheel drive on gumtree or carsales.com for a decent price he wouldn't have sold it, when most of the posts on here are about the extortionate price of second hand vehicles? Your farmer friend was either loaded and couldn't be bothered or just lazy. He was missing out on a few thousand dollars a year.

[bristolman]

What is going to replace the manufacturing industry that is being devastated in recent years ? It's all very well pandering get to the overpriced trades but how does that help the country overall ?

[Diane]

Surprised you don't seem aware of all the initiatives for small business which is where a lot of new employment will come from

Reduced tax rate for small business (a welcome cut) and immediate tax deductions for new assets up to 20K.

 

The budget has been very well received and coalition are now level or ahead in the polls, so not sure how you have got this attitude tbh.

 

I haven't read the whole thread but felt I needed to respond to this - we were talking about it in the office today (I work at a bookkeepers which does the books for many small businesses). This tax deduction on assets up to $20k - I think the government are trying to foster the idea that they are actually giving money to small businesses, but in fact all it means is if you purchase an asset, you can claim against tax the full depreciation in the first year, rather than over the normal three or four year

 

Now, if you are a small business that is doing it tough at the moment, this means that not only do you have to find the money in your cash flow to purchase this asset, but you have to make enough profit this tax year to actually be paying that amount in tax anyway. I have to say that a struggling small business is going to be very lucky to (a) be looking at making a profit of $20k, and (b) to have enough spare funds around to purchase the asset, without taking out finance where the interest and charges will quickly swallow up any tax benefit. And all it means if you are doing well enough to be making a profit of more than $20k this year is that you will pay less tax this year, but more in the next three or four years - and who can possibly predict how much you will be making in the future with certainty these days.

 

I would actually go so far as to say the way this particular feature of the budget has been marketed to small businesses, who by definition are perhaps a little less financially savvy than large businesses, is actually borderline immoral as many have interpreted it to mean that if they buy, say a new vehicle costing $19,999 - the government will be giving them this money at the end of the year (in the same way I guess that the last government refunded the cost of school items in previous years). Many are taking out finance or putting the purchases on credit, without actually working out if they will be any better off in the long run. This is not the case.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Diane

[Paul1Perth]

You are assuming Diane that the small business owner doesn't know anything about tax rules and doesn't have an accountant who would be advising them? You do the books for people and know the rules, wouldn't small business owners be asking for a bit of advice before they went and blew $20,000, specially if they were doing it tough anyway.

 

People aren't stupid and the new rules are going to help some people and others, who probably couldn't afford to buy stuff anyway, well they're just not going to go out and spend $20,000.

[Parley]

Small business people are not the mindless idiots that some people make them out to be.

They know very well what a tax deduction is.

No one seriously thinks the government is going to hand them $20000 for nothing.

[bristolman]

You are assuming Diane that the small business owner doesn't know anything about tax rules and doesn't have an accountant who would be advising them? You do the books for people and know the rules, wouldn't small business owners be asking for a bit of advice before they went and blew $20,000, specially if they were doing it tough anyway.

 

People aren't stupid and the new rules are going to help some people and others, who probably couldn't afford to buy stuff anyway, well they're just not going to go out and spend $20,000.

 

Actually I think you are giving many people too much credit if you excuse the pun. People are indeed stupid and many will misinterpret the new rule and go out and spend.

[KIRK AND CO]

Mind you people have been saying that about China for at least a few years now, going on about their ghost cities etc.

 

But their economy continues to grow by 7% or so a year. The government seems to be able to intervene to keep bubbling along.

 

Not saying it can't happen, but we've been hearing doom and gloom stories for years.

 

Meanwhile the ASX is up 80 points today.

keep your head in the sand it might go away. NOT

[bristolman]

I don't tend to post up links but this one does seem to put things into some perspective when you look at the drop in investment right across the board. The drop in manufacturing investment should be setting off alarm bells.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/capital-investment-economic-outlook-slips-from-bleak-to-recessionary-20150528-ghbxls.html

[HelensvaleHoward]

I run a small business

 

It hasn't made me run out and spend $20,000 lol

[Diane]

You are assuming Diane that the small business owner doesn't know anything about tax rules and doesn't have an accountant who would be advising them? You do the books for people and know the rules, wouldn't small business owners be asking for a bit of advice before they went and blew $20,000, specially if they were doing it tough anyway.

 

People aren't stupid and the new rules are going to help some people and others, who probably couldn't afford to buy stuff anyway, well they're just not going to go out and spend $20,000.

 

I'm not assuming anything, unlike some - I am talking from experience. You seem to have a very rosey view of small businesses and the people that run them. It doesn't make someone stupid if the skills that allow them to make a living running a small business are not necessarily financial skills.

 

Small business people are not the mindless idiots that some people make them out to be.

They know very well what a tax deduction is.

No one seriously thinks the government is going to hand them $20000 for nothing.

 

Well obviously in my job I come across a very wide range of small businesses - with only one exception I can think of in my experience, they are run by lovely people, but no, not all of them are financial whizzes. Many of them are just trying to support their families in the best way they can, and some of them - like the one @VERYSTORMY mentioned earlier - have got the completely wrong idea about this budget measure. The ones that know they don't know may well ask for advice from their bookkeepers or accountants, but those that don't realise it's not as obvious as it sounds may well make expensive purchases on credit or take out loans to make purchases, thinking the government will be giving them the money back at the end of the year, regardless.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Diane

[newjez]

You're telling me that if he had put a year old 4 wheel drive on gumtree or carsales.com for a decent price he wouldn't have sold it, when most of the posts on here are about the extortionate price of second hand vehicles? Your farmer friend was either loaded and couldn't be bothered or just lazy. He was missing out on a few thousand dollars a year.

 

He was on a cattle station in the middle of nowhere. I guess it just wasn't worth their while.

[Zack]

Surprised you don't seem aware of all the initiatives for small business which is where a lot of new employment will come from

Reduced tax rate for small business (a welcome cut) and immediate tax deductions for new assets up to 20K.

 

The budget has been very well received and coalition are now level or ahead in the polls, so not sure how you have got this attitude tbh.

 

Hockey's Budget is a absolute waste of more Billions.Why on Earth would People earning $185,000 to $200,000 P/a be paid a extra $10,000 p/a to help them pay for child care?

Why should small Business get silly Tax deductions on new Assets to $20,000.The Country is Borrowing $100 Million a day.And growing to stay afloat

Most people in Australia can't afford to employ tradies,They charge so much,have you had your car repared lately? or Called a tradie out for a home repair? They charge like wounded bulls.You do it yourself in Australia,Unless you are desperate.They are out of touch with Reality.Like Joe Hockey

Even Small Business Retail Shops take your eyes out,in Regional areas.We would rather travel 64Ks to Gympie than shop local.it's so expensive.The Problem is with this government,they don't know how to govern,unless it's raining Billions into Government coffers.They have never governed in normal times.Only during mining booms/When a monkey could have ran Australia. The Liberals thought the mining boom would last forever.They ignored all the signs.Like when China Started Stock Piling Iron Ore.Australia is heading for a deep rescission.This Lot Will deny Everything Like the GFC or Global warming.They are lost. Lowering Interest Rates Is Insane.it puts more Billions on Debt,Puts the cost of living up.It's good for countries that are huge exporters.But Australia has nothing to export now.They relied TOO Much on Whats sitting in the ground.Now nobody wants it in Huge Quantities.

[bristolman]

Hockey's Budget is a absolute waste of more Billions.Why on Earth would People earning $185,000 to $200,000 P/a be paid a extra $10,000 p/a to help them pay for child care?

Why should small Business get silly Tax deductions on new Assets to $20,000.The Country is Borrowing $100 Million a day.And growing to stay afloat

Most people in Australia can't afford to employ tradies,They charge so much,have you had your car repared lately? or Called a tradie out for a home repair? They charge like wounded bulls.You do it yourself in Australia,Unless you are desperate.They are out of touch with Reality.Like Joe Hockey

Even Small Business Retail Shops take your eyes out,in Regional areas.We would rather travel 64Ks to Gympie than shop local.it's so expensive.The Problem is with this government,they don't know how to govern,unless it's raining Billions into Government coffers.They have never governed in normal times.Only during mining booms/When a monkey could have ran Australia. The Liberals thought the mining boom would last forever.They ignored all the signs.Like when China Started Stock Piling Iron Ore.Australia is heading for a deep rescission.This Lot Will deny Everything Like the GFC or Global warming.They are lost. Lowering Interest Rates Is Insane.it puts more Billions on Debt,Puts the cost of living up.It's good for countries that are huge exporters.But Australia has nothing to export now.They relied TOO Much on Whats sitting in the ground.Now nobody wants it in Huge Quantities.

 

As sad as that all is it is largely true. The current Government seems to want to put a bandaid on things rather than address the hard issues.

[gee13]

The current govt supports rich get richer scheme.. its no doubt their supporters are more interested in a false economy of separating the advantaged over the disadvantaged.. the bust part of the boom cycle is just about to happen... just look at the dollar fall from above parity to 75c now.. dont even mention the pound... ... Im awaiting the bust up of this nefarious scheme that the blind and money hungry despots have managed to dupe the other blind and money hungry voters... a sad reality for honest hardworking Australians...

[newjez]

The current govt supports rich get richer scheme.. its no doubt their supporters are more interested in a false economy of separating the advantaged over the disadvantaged.. the bust part of the boom cycle is just about to happen... just look at the dollar fall from above parity to 75c now.. dont even mention the pound... ... Im awaiting the bust up of this nefarious scheme that the blind and money hungry despots have managed to dupe the other blind and money hungry voters... a sad reality for honest hardworking Australians...

 

 

I may have mentioned it once but I think I got away with it...

[Johndoe]

Hockey's Budget is a absolute waste of more Billions.Why on Earth would People earning $185,000 to $200,000 P/a be paid a extra $10,000 p/a to help them pay for child care?

Why should small Business get silly Tax deductions on new Assets to $20,000.The Country is Borrowing $100 Million a day.And growing to stay afloat

Most people in Australia can't afford to employ tradies,They charge so much,have you had your car repared lately? or Called a tradie out for a home repair? They charge like wounded bulls.You do it yourself in Australia,Unless you are desperate.They are out of touch with Reality.Like Joe Hockey

Even Small Business Retail Shops take your eyes out,in Regional areas.We would rather travel 64Ks to Gympie than shop local.it's so expensive.The Problem is with this government,they don't know how to govern,unless it's raining Billions into Government coffers.They have never governed in normal times.Only during mining booms/When a monkey could have ran Australia. The Liberals thought the mining boom would last forever.They ignored all the signs.Like when China Started Stock Piling Iron Ore.Australia is heading for a deep rescission.This Lot Will deny Everything Like the GFC or Global warming.They are lost. Lowering Interest Rates Is Insane.it puts more Billions on Debt,Puts the cost of living up.It's good for countries that are huge exporters.But Australia has nothing to export now.They relied TOO Much on Whats sitting in the ground.Now nobody wants it in Huge Quantities.

 

Well there ya go go again Zack.................irrespective of how much I believe the content of your post to be correct.............most in fact................here you are again gobbing off a country that you gobbed off against before..........returned to the "wonderful Uk" and subsequently returned here after gobbing off about the UK................does anywhere suit you at all after all that tooing and froing?.............all that money eaten away by australian policies and Uk policies that you seem to despise with equal fervour?

 

I reckon you're just the kind of guy that would never be happy wherever he lived..........you've tried Oz and the Uk at least twice each so how about giving outer Mongolia a try?

Edited May 29, 2015 by Johndoe

[newjez]

Well there ya go go again Zack.................irrespective of how much I believe the content of your post to be correct.............most in fact................here you are again gobbing off a country that you gobbed off against before..........returned to the "wonderful Uk" and subsequently returned here after gobbing off about the UK................does anywhere suit you at all after all that tooing and froing?.............all that money eaten away by australian policies and Uk policies that you seem to despise with equal fervour?

 

I reckon you're just the kind of guy that would never be happy wherever he lived..........you've tried Oz and the Uk at least twice each so how about giving outer Mongolia a try?

 

 

Is there an inner Mongolia?

[flag of convenience]

We went in the Aviary and the Moon and Sixpence and both were pretty full on Tuesday night. Mind you we had come in on a pretty packed train as public transport is free with the Nickelback ticket price and I guess everyone was stopping for a pint on the way to the gig. Fast Eddies was pretty busy after the gig too.

 

Go to any City on Tuesday night flag and I think they are all generally quite. Back in student days in Brum it was student and nurses night, happy hours galore and free entry to a few clubs. Wednesday morning at Uni was not well attended.

 

Depends on what you think it busy I suppose. Twenty odd years ago, perhaps a little longer, more likely to be able to count passing folk on both hands. I looked in at The Elephant and Wheelbarrow less than twenty people, like wise two other pubs in North Bridge. As I noted the CBD was more active than the entertainment hub North Bridge. Still hardly busy.

I didn't go inside The Moon, but not many outside. No idea what central Birmingham is like but all cities outside provincial ones would have been far livelier. Totally different dynamics at work. The day of the week was hardly a concern of mine in my regular going out times which was nearly every night.

[Guest Mikimoto]

A 6 x 4 parking spot in Sydney sold this week for $264,000 and a 38sq m house (minute) sold last Saturday for $965,000. Doesn't appear people are worried when they are spending like that.

[HelensvaleHoward]

From what I read here on The Gold Coast things are booming

Gold Coast property market picks up again

 

Not all doom and gloom

 

Shopping centres very busy

 

But I guess if in work you don't notice it

 

Same anywhere in the world

[Jacaranda]

Except when the UK was in recession the whole of the UK was called a s***hole,it was all doom and gloom,all going downhill!Where I lived in the UK wasn't affected,but I still had posters disbelieving me.