Unemployment up, Migration to blame?

[wolvesaussie]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-07/unemployment-surges-to-12-year-high-at-64-pc/5654926

 

Unemployment at a 12 year high but its not because the economy is losing jobs, its because there are too many new arrivals in Australia.

[Que Sera Sera]

Mmm I suspect there going to start cutting back on the visas then.

[AJ]

Be a shame if people start to miss out but suppose it has to happen sometime, my OH is and Electrician, think there is quite a lot unemployed just now but still on the skills list!

[Xenon4017]

Be a shame if people start to miss out but suppose it has to happen sometime, my OH is and Electrician, think there is quite a lot unemployed just now but still on the skills list!

 

There's always a huge latency between what's really required and what's on the skills list. So we get a situation like now with lots of occupations on the list whilst unemployment climbs. Then the list will be shortened, unemployment will fall and we'll get stories of skills shortages again.

[VERYSTORMY]

I think it is a bit. There has been a lot of over use by companies on migrants rather than training.

[Parley]

There is a massive issue with 457 Visa fraud too.

Many unskilled people have been brought in as skilled project managers or whatever and are actually unskilled and taking labouring jobs.

 

I think this is part of the problem.

[fletchaman]

Was it not at 10.9% back in Feb last year how do they get it as 12 year high??

 

http://www.roymorgan.com.au/findings/finding-4870-201303070446

[Pumpkin]

Was it not at 10.9% back in Feb last year how do they get it as 12 year high??

 

http://www.roymorgan.com.au/findings/finding-4870-201303070446

 

Unemployment has not been at 10.9% in Australia, not measured in the usual manner anyway, which is based on participation i.e. adults looking for work. These figures are ether just duff or are perhaps based on all adults, whether looking for work or not. Not expressing an opinion on which method is best to use, but rather that it is apples and pears.

[Guest Guest66881]

The world is tilting and not much can be done short term, this is another of those long running storms.

[fletchaman]

Unemployment has not been at 10.9% in Australia, not measured in the usual manner anyway, which is based on participation i.e. adults looking for work. These figures are ether just duff or are perhaps based on all adults, whether looking for work or not. Not expressing an opinion on which method is best to use, but rather that it is apples and pears.

 

Is it based on 15 to 74 yrs old in Australia like Europe or is it a lower age gap, that may be the difference in percentages. I cant see how they calculated the 10.9% unless they used total adults above 15 or an extended working age gap.

[CaptainR]

The backpacker comments in the article is strange, because I assume that most of the countries they have reciprocal WHV agreements with have a lot of a Australian youth also going to work in the same kind of work in those countries. So many Aussie and Kiwis I meet have done a working holiday in the UK when they were younger. Although with the massive influx of unskilled migration from Europe you hear a lot less Aussie accent amongst hospitality workers then you used to.

[flag of convenience]

I think it is a bit. There has been a lot of over use by companies on migrants rather than training.

 

Along with misuse of 457's.

[flag of convenience]

The backpacker comments in the article is strange, because I assume that most of the countries they have reciprocal WHV agreements with have a lot of a Australian youth also going to work in the same kind of work in those countries. So many Aussie and Kiwis I meet have done a working holiday in the UK when they were younger. Although with the massive influx of unskilled migration from Europe you hear a lot less Aussie accent amongst hospitality workers then you used to.

 

Although Aussies tend to go naturally enough to English speaking countries. While many Germans, Italians and French come out here.

[Petals]

The reason we still need skilled people is not because there is a shortage of people able to work there is a shortage of training. Ever since the Kennett years when everything in Victoria that was not fixed was sold to private enterprise, apprenticeships have been thin on the ground. Also small employers pick up apprentices and drop them before they have finished their time and there should be more regulation about training and companies should be forced to do it. Private enterprise is always looking at the shareholders. Its ok to say government was not best but the government departments for the services trained so many young people years ago and there were cadetships etc. Now there is not much, TAFE has become very expensive unless people are on very low income etc. As I keep saying what seems to be a good idea often turns out to be a very very bad idea and its been a very very bad idea because now we have such high youth unemployment.

 

Of course the population are going to call for less migrants, its where you are, even those of us who are migrants if we have children who are finding it difficult to get work. Its where we are at the time whether we agree with it or not.

 

The libs are not going to train anyone they want rid of more people and now they are talking about privatising our medicare payments so that will mean less jobs eventually.

 

We do have to look after the local population if we want to live in a cohesive society, if we do not provide for the unemployed and low income people then we will get it back in spades with bad behaviour and unrest.

[srh82]

Here we go..... Lol.

 

Deja-vu.

[VERYSTORMY]

Along with misuse of 457's.

 

Agree. I have a neighbour that came as a blast hole driller. You can train someone to do this in a matter of days. But brought in a 457 instead.

[Echidna66]

I worked for a company who would bring in Indian and Singapore workers on 457 visas for short term contracts in WA...These workers paid no tax in their home countries and no tax in Australia either..Its a scam all of it...

[fletchaman]

I worked for a company who would bring in Indian and Singapore workers on 457 visas for short term contracts in WA...These workers paid no tax in their home countries and no tax in Australia either..Its a scam all of it...

 

Its what UK allowed to happen with the Eastern Europeans, cheap short term labour. It was the rise of the Recruitment Agency

[wrussell]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-07/unemployment-surges-to-12-year-high-at-64-pc/5654926

 

Unemployment at a 12 year high but its not because the economy is losing jobs, its because there are too many new arrivals in Australia.

 

Permanent migrants to Australia create more jobs than they take.

 

It might be a good idea to omit backpacker's and 457 visas.

[flag of convenience]

Agree. I have a neighbour that came as a blast hole driller. You can train someone to do this in a matter of days. But brought in a 457 instead.

 

It's been going on for some years but has escalated in more recent times. Far removed from the days of highly trained, hard to find professionals. The present situation is an assault on the working class, for want of a better term, with the savings on training and/or a passive work force to do with whatever at will.

 

With 20% youth unemployment (under24) government should take immediate action to prune back and stop the rorts. Fix up the housing rorts while they are at it and cease using the asylum seekers as a sign of toughness , when in fact it's as an inept government, probably far worse than the one it has followed

[flag of convenience]

Permanent migrants to Australia create more jobs than they take.

 

It might be a good idea to omit backpacker's and 457 visas.

 

Not at the present rate of one million every three years and a declining economy. It reduces the size of the cake that must be shared. We live by more than consumption alone. Certainly vested interests like business will peddle this line though.

[flag of convenience]

I worked for a company who would bring in Indian and Singapore workers on 457 visas for short term contracts in WA...These workers paid no tax in their home countries and no tax in Australia either..Its a scam all of it...

 

I'm afraid there are many scams going on and little apparent will to do much about it. The government only acts after the event has been publicised. Business is calling the shots or attempting to.Thier interests are lower living conditions all round as costs are cut to cater for higher unemployment numbers and the like. Fact is the jobs aren't there. government's response. Attempt to stop dole for six months for under 30's. One of the most cynical moves ever heard off ....Not hard to see this could all end very badly indeed.

[Guest guest30085]

How could a worker who is 'brought in' on a 457 visa, not have to pay tax on income earned in Australia?

[MARYROSE02]

If somebody goes through the long, complicated, and expensive process of applying to migrate to Australia, and knowing they will not be allowed in without enough money to pay their way, and knowing also that they will not get any help from the state if they are out of work, why is the 457 visa scheme bad for Australia?

 

And if you come here with a large amount of funds, and you are paying for your own upkeep, how can this be a drain on the Aussie economy?

 

Come to that, if you come here with no money and no skills, then how is that NOT a drain on the Aussie economy?

[MARYROSE02]

10 March 2013, 11.23pm AESTPolitical opportunism, not economics, drives the attack on 457 visas

 

Is the 457 visa system open to rorting? I don’t know. There appear to be plenty of safeguards in place to ensure that business has to jump through lots of bureaucratic hoops in order to bring an overseas skilled worker to Australia.

However, one thing is clear. The 457 visa program is not significantly increasing unemployment.

“There were 125,070 workers on 457 visas in Australia in the 2011-12 financial year”. This is less than 1% of the Australian workforce. So even if the 457 visa program resulted in a one-for-one ‘loss’ of jobs to local workers the effect would be to raise unemployment from 5.4% to about 6.2%. This would be undesirable, even though a 6.2% unemployment rate would be greeted with joy by most European countries.

But the 457 visa program does not have a one-for-one effect on unemployment. Indeed, it is quite likely that the program reduces unemployment in Australia and creates jobs.

How? Well the overseas workers who are employed under 457 visas have to live here. They will eat, drink, buy entertainment, buy clothes, run a car, and so on. In other words, they have to be part of our economy. And every time a 457 visa worker spends a dollar, that is an extra dollar of demand for things that we sell in Australia. And that makes jobs for other Aussies.

So what is the net effect? About a decade ago, the Melbourne Institute looked at ‘working holiday makers’ (WHMs) and their effect on the Australian labour market. Their conclusion?

“This means that for an annual intake of 80,000 WHMs, about 41,000 effective full-year jobs will be taken by WHMs, but about 49,000 effective full year jobs will be created through the WHM expenditure. This indicates that about 8,000 effective full year jobs are created by an intake of 80,000 WHMs" (page 9).

In other words, the working holiday visa scheme probably led to net job creation in Australia. The WHM’s not only had jobs but they spent their earnings, and that created more local jobs.

Now, WHMs are different to skilled workers, and it can be argued that they take ‘undesirable’ jobs and tend to bring funds into the country. So the WHM effect may be higher than the skilled migrant effect.

However, the WHMs can directly ‘take’ local jobs. A 457 visa applicant can only gain a job where there is no appropriate local worker. So it could be argued that 457 visa applicants will have a more positive jobs effect than WHMs. They fill jobs that would otherwise be vacant, and then spend their wages creating more jobs.

In the absence of a proper study we do not know which effect dominates. But we can conclude that any ‘unemployment’ effect from 457 visa applicants will, at most, be very small, and is quite likely to be negative. In other words, bringing skilled workers to Australia under the 457 visa programs may lead to a net creation of jobs in Australia.

Of course, this is only one effect. Having overseas skilled workers also improves the quality of what we produce in Australia.

As an example, the university sector has a relatively open international labour market. Australia’s top universities recruit young graduates and leading academics from around the world. That is why Australia has six universities in the world’s top 100. We punch well above our weight in tertiary education because we bring in the best people from around the world.

By bringing in skilled workers from overseas, the 457 visa system improves the quality of the services Australian’s receive. This is particularly the case for healthcare and social services, the areas with the biggest intake of 457 workers. But it applies to all areas of our economy.

If the 457 visa scheme provides significant economic benefits, why is there a debate about ‘tightening up’ the scheme instead of expanding it?

Unfortunately, the debate reflects political opportunism, not economics. By creating a false picture of ‘job stealing foreigners’, our politicians hope to stoke our fears to their own advantage.

Instead of recognising the employment and productivity benefits that Australia gains from overseas skilled workers, our politicians are creating a scare campaign. This may be good politics, but it is very bad economics.

Edited August 10, 2014 by MARYROSE02