Freckleface Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If you're in a stable situation and happy with your work, and you're offered a position in Oz on a 457.....beware. Insist on a company-sponsored PR visa, and if refused ask them why - does it smell like a good reason, or were they trying to bring you over for the short term ? If they will only offer a 457, demand that they commit in writing to sponsoring you for PR after 2 years if you are still with them - no quibble. If they refuse, it's a stitch-up. ... I just want to comment on this part of the OP as a reputable employer who has sponsored people on the 457 to PR. If a prospective employee attempted to 'insist on' much less 'demand' a commitment to sponsorship for PR I would instruct HR to terminate all negotiations. Not because we engage in 'stitch-ups' but because I won't commit to saddling Aust with someone until I'm sure they deserve sponsorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If you're in a stable situation and happy with your work, and you're offered a position in Oz on a 457.....beware. Insist on a company-sponsored PR visa, and if refused ask them why - does it smell like a good reason, or were they trying to bring you over for the short term ? If they will only offer a 457, demand that they commit in writing to sponsoring you for PR after 2 years if you are still with them - no quibble. If they refuse, it's a stitch-up. Yes, if they're offering you a 457 and claiming it's for the long term, it is definitely a stitch-up, because that would be illegal - so they're lying to you and the government at the same time. Having said that, I wonder why anyone "in a stable situation and happy with their work" would even think of emigrating to Australia. I see people like that on these forums all the time and it scares me - do they think Australia is some kind of paradise?? Yes, Australia is a nice place to live, but it's not so fabulous that anyone should move halfway round the world (and spend thousands of dollars) to move here, unless they're seriously unhappy where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I'm not on the plane yet !!! Just wanted to alert potential migrants to the risk - I feel there's a little too much economy with the actualite when it comes to just how easily you can find yourself in the departure lounge.. Yeah people should just make unsubstantiated statements instead to suit their own viewpoint. Seems to be an increasing trend on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes, if they're offering you a 457 and claiming it's for the long term, it is definitely a stitch-up, because that would be illegal - so they're lying to you and the government at the same time. Having said that, I wonder why anyone "in a stable situation and happy with their work" would even think of emigrating to Australia. I see people like that on these forums all the time and it scares me - do they think Australia is some kind of paradise?? Yes, Australia is a nice place to live, but it's not so fabulous that anyone should move halfway round the world (and spend thousands of dollars) to move here, unless they're seriously unhappy where they are. Sorry but yes it is for many. Maybe not you but for some, us included it is a gorgeous place to live and no we were not unhappy in England. We didn't however come out on a 457 because basically we didn't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Agree with the above, you don't have to be hating your life in the UK or be unstable in anyway to want to migrate and try something new. We had a pretty good life over there and was probably financially better off over there but we enjoy and prefer our life here right now. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Having said that, I wonder why anyone "in a stable situation and happy with their work" would even think of emigrating to Australia. I see people like that on these forums all the time and it scares me - do they think Australia is some kind of paradise?? Yes, Australia is a nice place to live, but it's not so fabulous that anyone should move halfway round the world (and spend thousands of dollars) to move here, unless they're seriously unhappy where they are. We did - had a pretty good life in the UK, fancied a change and to live and work in another country whilst we were still young enough to do it. Not everyone is unhappy, nor do they think that Aus is paradise, we came knowing we'd have to work bloody hard to re-establish ourselves in a new country and did just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes, Australia is a nice place to live, but it's not so fabulous that anyone should move halfway round the world (and spend thousands of dollars) to move here, unless they're seriously unhappy where they are. Have you been to Middlesborough ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We did - had a pretty good life in the UK, fancied a change and to live and work in another country whilst we were still young enough to do it. Not everyone is unhappy, nor do they think that Aus is paradise, we came knowing we'd have to work bloody hard to re-establish ourselves in a new country and did just that. As you say, you were young enough to take a risk, and you went in knowing it wasn't a paradise. I'm not thinking of the singles and no-kids couples who feel like an adventure - they can move more cheaply so if it goes pear-shaped, it's a lot less painful. I'm thinking of the people with families about "living the dream". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Have you been to Middlesborough ? No - but the thing is, if you don't like the city you're living in, it's going to cost a hell of a lot less to move somewhere else in the UK (or Europe) than to travel all the way to Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I'm thinking of the people with families about "living the dream". I think we're coming to the end of a wave of interest from the kinds of people you're talking about. Many people have had their dreams fuelled by the media and semi-reality TV shows, that show them a better life over here if only they would be brave enough to "go for it". Swapping a terraced house in Ramsbottom for 4x2 with pool in Perth. There's quite a latency between starting the process and actually arriving, often a couple of years. It's only been the last 18 months or so that there's been any negative stories concerning employment opportunities etc. Now it seems that emigrating isn't quite the no-brainer it once appeared to be. It's good that people are being a bit more careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 As you say, you were young enough to take a risk, and you went in knowing it wasn't a paradise. I'm not thinking of the singles and no-kids couples who feel like an adventure - they can move more cheaply so if it goes pear-shaped, it's a lot less painful. I'm thinking of the people with families about "living the dream". I was just over 40, married, two children and an established career .. Still considered ourselves young enough for an adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I was just over 40, married, two children and an established career .. Still considered ourselves young enough for an adventure We too...................with an 20 month old and 6 month old. The OH was dissilusioned with the NHS and crime in our area yes, but that in itself wasn't the factor................we wanted an adventure.................a challenge if you will. We seemed to be "running on empty" in the UK...............same old, same old, despite enjoying our lifestyle........away camping every weekend (even with the kids whatever the weather). I guess that in itself was a challenge, but somehow it wasn't enough. "We came, we saw, we conquered" sort of thing............what do you do then for a sense of acheivement?....................so........................Oz it was...................although the Hebrides was our original intent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissofthegypsy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We took a 457 to get us here and then QH sponsored us for PR after 6 months. When I was looking around, no one mentioned that my 457 was restrictive and in my specialist field I found a job pretty easily. That was nearly 5 years ago though and I know since then the government has pricked up the ears of employers with the many changes they have made to the visa since I obtained one. Everyones situation is different and reasons for moving most definitely are, I know people who have emmigrated and returned before their container arrived, others like myself find that working over here and building a network of opportunities is a s fruitful as you make it, but granted to the OP, you need to be able to get a steady foot in the market to get that chance. Sorry it didnt work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I was just over 40, married, two children and an established career .. Still considered ourselves young enough for an adventure We did too. We were in our mid thirties, had two small children aged 1 and 2, but still wanted to give it a go, for the adventure. We came on a 457, but with PR written in to OH's contract, so we had a bit of a safety net. We moved from a beautiful area in the UK, OH had a good job there and we lived in a lovely cottage in the middle of the countryside. Not everyone who moves to Aus does so because they are unhappy. We were happy there, and we are happy here. We have been fortunate in that OH's job here has exceeded his expectations, but we have had to work hard to get to this point, including having to budget for a drop (by almost half) in OH's salary for the first three and a half years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Have you been to Middlesborough ? I am from Middlesbrough and while it certainly has it's faults, it certainly has some pluses. A lot of old friends could move to Oz if they wanted but are perfectly happy in Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Outoftheblue Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Sorry for your disappointment. Is it really too late to try and get something else sorted out? I'm embarrassed to say but I'm a real fair weather person, and for us I don't feel we get a very good work life balance here in the UK, hubby works 8hr shifts, I work 12hr shifts and it can be sods law that I'm often stuck at work when the weathers sunny, warm and enjoyable. Only my daughter would be out in whatever weather, I've had to drag her indoors out of - temperatures, mind you when we went to UAE last year for a holiday and it was 42 degrees I had to drag her indoors then too. The boys however are much like me, poor mites. I'm hoping there is a way for us to get out to Australia to live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Have you been to Middlesborough ? Yes, that's where I am from - believe it or not I burst into tears of joy in the Cleveland Centre a couple of days after we returned to the UK. I must admit I even surprised myself I do understand though that it does not offer the best opportunities and I would not want to bring my son up there (it's be a hard call on whether to return to Australia if that was my only option but I think I would make the sacrifice for him and move back to Australia) Could you maybe consider moving back to elsewhere in the UK if you do have to return? We are very happy in Scotland, it offers for us the right combination of work opportunities, cost of living and 'salt of the earth' people. There are probably more opportunities in the South-East but the cost of living is much higher and whilst there are decent people and we had good friends especially in Essex, we found overall we didn't fit in the same as we do in the North and in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonafides9 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yes, if they're offering you a 457 and claiming it's for the long term, it is definitely a stitch-up, because that would be illegal - so they're lying to you and the government at the same time. Having said that, I wonder why anyone "in a stable situation and happy with their work" would even think of emigrating to Australia. I see people like that on these forums all the time and it scares me - do they think Australia is some kind of paradise?? Yes, Australia is a nice place to live, but it's not so fabulous that anyone should move halfway round the world (and spend thousands of dollars) to move here, unless they're seriously unhappy where they are. It is fabulous unless you're one of those poms with your head up your arsse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 . A lot of old friends could move to Oz if they wanted but are perfectly happy in Boro. Good on them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marta Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Blewyn, that's really sad. But this condition should have been pretty clear right from the start when you applied for the 457!? Don't get me wrong, I'm on a 457 myself and it's been hard for me to find work in Australia. I'm sponsored by my partner who's sponsored by a university in Australia (working about 80 hours a week), and we know that if the sponsor doesn't move us onto PR we're out of here pretty soon. But that's the risk we took! The 457 visa clearly says 'temporary' so you cannot expect to get the same rights as someone on a PR. On top of that, what's wrong with upskilling oneself? I've paid a lot of money doing one of the TAFE courses to get an Australian accreditation as PM. I don't regret having done that in addition to working full time as a contractor in a badly paid job. Maybe your expectations were too high in the first place. It's pretty obvious that the job market is very competitive these days, and not only in Australia, it's the same all over the world. Mind you, one can never be too sure about one's own job future, regardless of the country you're living in, and not even if you're in a specialist profession. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 I posted my message as a warning to others, to help people avoid making the mistake I have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docboat Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Thanks Marta for your comprehensively unhelpful post. I do wonder what motivates people to write such "ahould have known" "told you so" "suck it up" drivel. I posted my message as a warning to others, to help people avoid making the mistake I have made. The warning to others is actually outlined on the DIAC website which states the purposes of a 457 visa, and should come as a surprise to those who have not checked the visa before applying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marta Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Blewyn, I agree that my post isn't very helpful and I apologise for being quite bold! However, I don't think your initial post is really that helpful either. To be fair, people who are registered at Poms in Oz looking around for info about migrating to Australia surely know to differentiate between a temporay visa and a non-temporary visa. It's in the name! Also, your posts are quite aggressive too (unnecessarily so I should think). I can see your initial post was caused by anger and disappointment, and I really feel sorry for your bad experiences. But there are many people moving to Australia and having to deal with a range of problems. It's not easy to migrate from one country to another! And nobody expects it to be easy. As docboat said, the condition of the temporary visa should have been clear before/whilst applying, particularly after last year's changes to the visa conditions which clearly make it even harder for foreigners to move from a temporary visa onto PR. I think we should still be grateful for the chance that we are given to work in Australia in the first place. Please note, this comment comes from someone who really, really had to struggle finding work in the first place. I also don't like being treated as 'the foreigner' on a 457 but I knew that it could be hard, and what doesn't kill me makes me stronger. It's funny I'm saying this because I do tend to complain about Australia a lot as you may have seen from my older posts, but this 457 thing is really something we cannot do anything about, and everybody on a 457 knows what to expect. I doubt anybody planning to move to Australia on a 457 doesn't know about the risk involved! I certainly would love to get the chance to get PR but I cannot be sure about that happening, and I've planned for that - in the worst case I have to leave Australia without even knoweing where to go to (because I'm not even a Brit so cannot 'just' go back to the UK, and I left my native country seven years ago so there's no home for me actually). I know, I cannot buy property in Australia as yet, I live in a shitty appartment and I have to pay over 500 bucks just for private health insurance (and on top of that I have to pay for each and every doctor's visit). But I live in Australia, in a highly developed and very sunny country! What more could I want? My partner and I are working very hard to survive here, but it's a choice we made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 We can do as much research as possible, but sometimes the pitfalls of certain visas aren't recognised until you experience something yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 We can do as much research as possible, but sometimes the pitfalls of certain visas aren't recognised until you experience something yourself. Exactly. For example, we were told that my spouse could work while here on a 457 visa. That sounds to me like she can go get a job, like anyone else. But guess what ? Aussie employers always ask for the applicant's residency status, and those on 457s can only be hired if no equivalent Aussies or PRs are available. So in actuality, your spouse pretty much has to find a 457 sponsor just like you did, just like any foreigner has to. Employers natuirally paint a rosy picture of work and conditions here in Oz - and let's face it, that's not difficult to achieve. But be warned ! All it takes is for your employer to finish a contract and need to drop headcount....and if you're a 457 in a department of Aussies, you're automatically closest to the door. Especially if the Aussies are all mates. Then all of a sudden it's cheers mate see ya and you have 90 days to find another sponsor or leave the country. Obviously this is less of an issue for those with widely-employed skills (tradies etc), but for those of us who are specialised, it can be a huge issue. People being asked to come here on a 457 may well be giving up a permanent position to make the move. It's only right that they are given the full picture as to just how temporary a position they may be getting in exchange. I know people who have demanded PR upfront, or a commitment to sponsorship for PR after 2 years. If you feel you may have enough clout to swing it, give it serious consideration. I post this message with the intention of warning and helping others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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