Guest Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hello, my name is Katy and I am wanting t Thank you xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You have to be very selfish and self sufficient to be a successful migrant. It's sad that they are guilting you but you can see where they are coming from - they are grieving for their lives not being the way they had thought they would be - you go and suck it up, expect for the hole you leave in their lives to heal over and probably be on the outer of your family forever. They may come around or they may not, you have no idea but expect the worst, hope for the best and take what comes. Personally I hate Skype, rarely use it and when I do I find it very frustrating and I wouldn't be hanging on to your old life via Skype - it's actually much easier not yo be picking at the scab of your life left behind. Why would you be expecting them to use their holidays to trek after you every year? You move, it's your responsibility to go back and visit them Good luck! This process will make you harder for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nienke Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I know it's hard, we've all been there. Leaving family behind and moving to the other side of the world was one of the hardest things I ever did. I still feel guilty about it. We probably all do, but it hasn't stopped me. What Quoll says is right though, you need to be selfish and self sufficient to be a successful migrant. That thought alone is enough to make you feel guilty. But you need to do what makes you happy, not your parents. Another selfish thing to say but it's your life and you need to live it the way you want to live it and feel is best for you. Yes, your parents are hurting and in their hurt have said some terrible things, but see if you can forgive them and keep trying. They are your family, no matter how far away you live. I disagree with Quoll about not hanging on to your old life. It's not about hanging on to your old life, it's about staying in touch with your family. Skype, email, telephone, facebook, etc., it all helps to stay in touch on a more day to day basis with family and friends. Technology is wonderful in that respect, make use of it as much as you can. All the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pob Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 What's the point in having a cake if you don't eat it? A really nice cake and you don't even get a slice? My family isn't as close as yours, with us being in Australia we are actually talking more. Skype is a good thing and people do like using it. My parents are pensioners and not the most technology savvy people and I now get texts saying are you on Skype? Which I think is kinda funny because they could just call, if they are on Skype. But hey ho small steps and all that. Skype is better than a phone call because you can see the people, wave, do a silly dance, ask them where they got such a hideous jumper and so on. Your parents sound petulant, they are throwing the toys out of the pram and using guilt to get what they want. You have to live your life for you and do what makes you happy. Your parents want the family together and that is admirable but at what cost? Your parents obviously love you and will deal with your decision and hopefully be big enough to come to terms with it. Just like you can go to England, they can come to you on holiday. If you do go to Australia, why not put some money aside and buy them tickets when you are all settled? Have they ever wanted to go to anywhere they could stop off mid way? Maybe give them a luxury weekend break in Thailand or Hong Kong or even L.A. and then on to Australia, that way the flight doesn't seem so bad. But if they come to you, you should go to them. Planes fly both ways you know. Have your cake and eat it? I'll have a passion fruit Mille Fuille please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakaal Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Have no words of wisdom but just wanted to say am going through the same as you at the moment. We leave in January and my poor parents are heartbroken. I feel awful. Had a dream last night my dad was dying in hospital and I had to talk to him over the phone instead of holding his hand I don't know if I am going to be able to live with the guilt and the daily requests from my mam not to go. I am just going along in a daze really waiting for the days to go by cannot even imagine the day I leave having to say goodbye some days I wake up all positive saying its my life I need to live it etc other days I am in blind panic thinking what the hell am I doing. Good luck to you hope things work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You poor thing . Your parents are hurt but they don't have the right to say hurtful things. My parents are both dead so I didn't have to go through this but my Daughter decided to go live with her Dad who was in Brisbane while we were still in the UK when she was just 15. It hurt like you wouldn't believe but I managed to see her off with a smile and broke down afterwards. I think you are going to have to be very strong my lovely, you are entitled to your life and they are going to have to come to terms with that at some point. I wish you lots if luck.:yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the bottler Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My brother was exactly the same with his son and daughter-in-law ... " I have absolutely no intention of ever going to Australia " etc ... he missed the granddaughter so much he did go ... loved it ... said " I can understand why they emigrated " ... Over the time I have been on pio there have been many people who have gone through the same as you ... it must be very distressing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest16631 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 ........if you have been a close family....... .......pop in and out of each others houses......... ........see each other frequently.... .........the move will leave a big hole in both parties lives........ .........but........it would if you moved to the other end of the country ...... ..........to Europe....... ..........maybe not as big,........but it would change the pattern........ ...........if for you the move's what you want to do..... ...........it holds all the ...needs .......for you both......and a lot of your wants.... ............then do it......! ............if your parents were your age they may of thought the same .....maybe not..... ..............but they have a different perspective to you....now....they are older with different needs and wants....... ...............they have had their early years and hopefully would of done what suited them...... .................what made them happy....... ...................now it's your turn...... ...................you have to live your life for you........if you live it for others.......that's a shame IMO.... ...............you get one........don't waste it.......follow your dreams...... ..........and help your parents accept this.......be firm but kind....... ...........eventually their lives will focus differently.......and hopefully that family tie.... .............will be just as strong..........just of stretched across the water.......! .............live your life.......to the fullness you can.....with as much enjoyment and wonder.... .............and your happiness will spill over and your parents will be able to experience joy from it.......... .............any parent deep down wants their child's happiness.........might just take a while before they share this ...........good luck to you and yours.............tink x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki244 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My mum also said 'that's it...we'll never see you again. There's no way I'm getting on a plane to go all that way.' About 15 months after we left, she came and stayed with us for almost four weeks, and absolutely loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My parents were upset when I came back from a WHV to Aus engaged to the man I'd gone there with. There were lots of reasons, some of them were because my mom in particular was concerned that I was getting into a situation that could be really painful if it went wrong. Some things were said that were very hurtful to me at the time, but I know that my mother was just lashing out because she was upset at the thought of me leaving. I was the baby my parents were told they'd never have, so of course for me to move to the other side of the world was always going to be extremely painful for them. Did I feel guilty? Yes, of course, and I still do at times. However, I was determined that this is where I wanted to be, and I have only one life. I'm grateful that my mother told me about some of the potential pitfalls of emigrating - yes, it's negative, but so many people make a decision without knowing all the facts only to regret their actions later. Do I miss my folks? Yes I do, especially when life isn't treating us so kindly. But I'm very lucky that I am able to feel close to my family without seeing them often. Now, when we visit, we get on really well. All that stuff my mom said is forgiven - she was scared we'd never visit, and that we'd forget about them (as if!). My parents have never visited, in fact, none of my family have - but I said from the start that I don't expect them to visit. It's a pain that almost all of my annual leave is used up visiting the UK, but that was part of the deal when I moved here (OH is Aussie), & I'm hoping that my parents will come over next year to see their new grandchild (assuming all goes well). But for me, that would be a bonus, and not something I'm expecting. Advice - well, I think you have to cut your parents some slack. I don't think that emotional blackmail is ever really called for, but people who feel desperate say and do desperate things. For your part, you have to try to let that sort of thing go over your head. I'd also say, think carefully about the reality of living on the opposite side of the world from your family and friends. When things go wrong in your life (which they will, none of us is immune from that), if you have a family of your own - think about how you'll cope without the support you would have if you lived near your folks. Having lived 4 hours' drive from my lot for 10 years before moving here, we were all used to maintaining our relationships without the frequent contact that many families have, and I think that helped me to feel less isolated. I also think it helped the rest of my folks too, because we're used to chatting on the phone every couple of weeks as our only contact for months at a time (now years at a time). I do think things will get harder for us all once the baby arrives, because it will make phone calls harder to organise and visits to the UK more difficult. But you need to be pretty strong of mind and will to make it as a migrant, in my experience. Some people object to being described as 'selfish', but essentially moving to the other side of the world is exactly that, in my opinion. I freely admit that I was selfish in wanting to move here (though I could argue otherwise, seeing as my husband wanted to come home), but I don't regret or apologise for that because I love living here and have no intention of changing anything. I hope you figure out exactly what you want, and that you reach an understanding with your parents. They are doubtless also worried that their little girl could make a decision that doesn't work out well for her - which is one of the eternal worries of parenthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 One other thing has just occurred to me, and is on a slight tangent, but the whole leaving thing - I discussed with my parents how we would manage the situation. I hate the 'airport goodbye' - in fact I hate protracted goodbyes in general, it's just more painful I find. Anyway, we agreed that we would visit a few days before we left, say our goodbyes, and then I'd call before we left for the airport & text once we were at the airport. That has become our family rule - when they dropped me off at the airport we had a big hug at their home before we left, a quick hug and 'goodbye' in the car park, & I walked into the terminal alone without looking back. I know that doesn't work for everyone (OH's family do massively long goodbyes that make him cry) - but for us it saves going through seeing one another upset. I know my mother will weep after we go, and I know she'll feel sad for a while after every visit, but seeing her upset would make it a million times harder for me to leave, & there is no point in that. I will always be grateful that my family spare me from their hurt, just because they love me and want me to be happy. I hope you all work things out - being a migrant is not easy, and being left behind is also very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabbycat Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hi Katy I agree with what Quoll says. I was lucky, I didn't get the emotional blackmail when we left 18 months ago, I knew my parents were sad at us going and taking our children with us so we eased them into it. You asked how different people have coped - we softened the blow by saying we were gong for 2 years to see how it worked out for us and then if it was working we might consider staying. I also started a blog. It was my sister's idea and it has been the perfect way to keep connected with all our friends and family. I started it as soon as we knew we were going to leave and made it really photo heavy so they could see everything that was happening. After 18 months I still write on it at least once a week. It means my family can share what is happening with us (and eachother) and when they email/skype they comment on what we are doing rather than always playing catch-up with each others lives. They feel part of the experience and when they did visit it was a pleasure for them to see things they had already read about. That was my way of coping, I'm sure you will find yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fensaddler Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I think what I'd very much want to say to the original poster is that your life is yours to live, not your parents to live for you. When we have children, we accept that we raise them, and give them all the skills and love that we can to make the best of their lives, and then we must let them go and live those lives. I am very close to my parents, and I miss them and think about them often now I'm in Melbourne, but they always brought me up not to think I had to live my life around them, and I am bringing my own daughter up to live her own life too, when the time comes. We've already said to her that her life might be in Australia, or it might be back in Europe, or it might be somewhere else, and part of the reason for coming here is to give her the life experience, the education, the confidence and the passports to do just that. Now whilst you will want to understand that your parents are just human, like the rest of us, and their reaction is one borne of pain and fear, they are out of order, and their response is petulant. They do not own you, or your life. You will be able to keep in touch, and it is much easier to do so now than it was for previous generations of migrants. You will see them again, and both their lives and yours will go on. They may well come out to see you, and if they do, like my parents and those of almost everyone else here they will say two things - 'I love it here', and 'I know why you moved'. Yes, you do need to be strong to migrate - because when things go pear shaped, you are far more on your own. Having said that, if you are as lucky as we have been in Melbourne, you will make good, strong friends, who will recognise that you need from them some of the support you would otherwise get from family. Our best friends here have said to us, and we to them, that they view us as an extension to their family, and in many ways our relationship with them is akin to that which many people have with with the partners of their siblings - not blood relations, but close family bonds nevertheless. I will say that we feel hugely lucky. We have good families who have let us go, with tears and good wishes, and we have made wonderful friends here. It will work out for you, and hopefully for your family too. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Good post fensaddler:notworthy: the only thing I would add is that I know my parents would be more upset if they thought I made a decision to stay for them, they never want to be a burden in preventing us from leading our lives ( even if on their death bed) they are content in the knowledge that they are always there if and when we need them. This I term this as a close & caring love and not a possessive love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolac34 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Sending you a big :hug: as that post was pretty upsetting OP! I hope they come around and realise that you aren't moving to the moon, you'll still be in touch. I text my parents every day when I'm here, never did that in England. I guess I'm lucky, my parents have always supported my decisions 100% and would never speak to me in that way. I've definitely decided that the way we emigrated was best..... came on a WHV and just never went back, so didn't have all the guilt trips and long goodbyes as we thought we'd be back in a year. Funnily enough my parents are going through it right now, they arrive on Monday and are moving here for good on a parental visa - they are finding it very hard packing up their lives and their parents are doing the same as yours "we'll never see you again" and getting very angry with them. It's hard when people you love don't support you and say hurtful things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 They are being unreasonable and selfish. They are thinking of themselves, nothing more. What di dyou have to do with them having a rough childhood? They are just putting you on a guilt trip hoping you will change your mind. You only live once and if you don't take the opportunity now it might never come again. My wife was worried about telling her parents but they were very supportive and said it's the best thing you can do. Her Dad had an opportunity to move to Canada and they lived there for a few years so he knew that there were other options than the UK. Hope they come around, stick to your guns don't give in as you'll regret it for the rest of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest km75 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hi Katy, I am currently feeling so guilty at leaving my widowed mum who is 78 (however, my sister and her family are close by so I know she won't be alone). I feel so guilty & stressed that I almost cancelled all our plans last week (we fly out 30 Dec, shippers coming 9 Dec). We have now decided to go, and if I still feel like this in 9 months or so we'll return. What I would say is guilt is an emotion we feel when we know we are doing something wrong. And even though my mum has said we should go and not stay for her I feel guilty as I do not feel comfortable to leave her when she needs us around & I know us leaving will break her heart. However, I don't want either me or my husband to resent my mum if we stay - it's a double edged sword. My sister reacted like your parents when I first told her the news and wouldn't speak to me for a week. But as I was stressing last week, she told me I couldn't make myself ill over it, we should go and we could always come back, and that surprised me, so people do come round. Your parents are shocked and hurt, but in time will understand you need to do what you need to do and this is an opportunity you don't want to let pass you by. The guilt will ease and your parents will come round in time. I am married to an Australian and lived in Australia for five years 2003-2008 and I didn't feel guilty back then - I just came home every 18 months or so and kept in regular contact. This time I do feel guilty as mum is 10 years older than the last time we left and dad was still around. I can't offer any advice, only if I was in your situation I'd proceed with the visa application and get everything lined up, and then go. You can always come back if things take a turn for the worse, but as others have said, your parents may surprise you and either visit you or skype you. I don't like skype, but will try and use it daily and other various communications methods to keep in touch. In the digital era everything is a little easier - sending photos and emails mean you can virtually be in touch the whole time, it's not like printing photos and snail mail. International phonecalls are cheap. Try not to feel too guilty, though know you are not alone in your emotions; it's something most migrants feel. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Don;t feel guilty as you have done nothing wrong. Your parents are in the wrong for being selfish and spiteful. Follow your dreams and give it a go because if you do not then you will wonder for the rest of your life "what if". When I told my dad he was understandably upset but he said straight away to go for it and if he was 30 years younger he would have done the same (hmmm so why didn't you dad?). We speak on the phone nearly every week and he has got on with his life and got remarried and seems to be on holiday or travelling more often than he is at home. I've mentioned this before in a number of posts but my grandparents almost emigrated to oz in the 1950s with absolutely everything paid for. When the movers came Nan got cold feet and refused to go as she didnt want to leave her sister. Six months later her sister met a Canadian airman, had a whirlwind romance, got married and emmigrated to Canada. I remember Nan saying it was the biggest regret of her life. You cannot live your life through other people and what they want, you have to do what you want and is best for you, your partner and your future together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tina0101 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I'm in a similar situation, except my mum flatly refuses to address or discuss us moving!!! Since we told my parents we were thinking of leaving in 2014, not 2016 as the plan was before, my mum has refused to discuss us moving to Australia with anyone. To start with she said that we were ruining my sons future by moving him straight after his GCSEs. She said she wouldn't fly that far (her best friend has just moved to India, so she could incorporate a big holiday involving us both). Since then, she has said nothing about it to anyone as it upsets her. It's been nearly four months and she still refuses to discuss our move with us, with her friends or with the rest of the family. We're now at the stage where she will talk to us as long as the topic of Australia doesn't come up. The way things are, I can honestly see us getting on a plane with her still refusing to speak to us about it. Even my dad, who is very sad we are going but understands why, can't see her coming round. It's taken the shine off of it all a bit, but I wont let her get to me. We were very close before this but now I feel like I cant tell her much at all. My husband's family is being great and so is my dad - he has said of course him and my mum will visit. All the way through school, my parents told me to be an individual and to not let anything stand in my way. It's a shame that mum is now trying to stand in my way, but I've got to be selfish or I wont do anything. Be strong. I live in the hope my mum will come round. If she doesn't I'm still going. Otherwise I'll regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyay1 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 wow, i can't believe some people's parents and families are so harsh. Have to admit though i was worried at the reaction mine would have, but they were pretty positive and were quite excited for me. my dad said to me he didnt blame me and slightly wished he had done the same when he was younger and lived abroad at least for a while. i used to live a few hundred miles away from them anyway but did visit pretty religiously every month or two and we remained close. Actually the distance is often a state of mind i find. it would be lovely to see them but they are still the same old selves when we speak on the phone or skype. I just wish they could have moved over too, but this is what you have to face when you migrate. you leave family thousands of miles away. i think about family every day and what they are doing but i don't let it get me down. it would be crazy to forget people i love so much. i think it's rotten that some people';s relatives guilt trip like this, i really do. parents should be supporting their adult children in major life decisions unless there's very good reason ( not selfish ones) not to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Sadly, when people grieve they can say and do things which are beyond rationality. I do think you have to cut the parents and families some slack and understand where they are coming from. In their eyes every ounce of pleasure the migrant gets from the move is like a stab in the heart for those left behind. Let no one tell you it is easy to be the one who is deserted - even the strongest of us has wobbles and with the best will in the world Skype doesn't cut it when all you want is a cuddle from the grand kids! You'd have to be very fortunate to get a win win situation, the vast majority are win lose unfortunately. That said, my parents never ever guilted me and I have never ever guilted my son who chose to leave Aus. The only guilting we have had and it is quite insidious and ongoing is from the daughter in law who keeps on reminding us that the grand kids are missing out on us! (And we aren't there as on site baby sitters!) We know that for heavens sake! However our decisions to move back were based on other far stronger factors. The only one I feel a bit sorry for is my son who has none of his family near - doesn't bother him much though but he is more inclined to Skype than anyone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea4too Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I would echo much of Quoll’s post. I think it’s a tall order to expect all parents to fully support their children’s emigration plans, no matter what. Great if they can, but not every one copes positively with heart ache or disappointment. To discover that a much loved family member is disappearing will be devastating news for some, and texts, Skype, occasional visits will not in any way compensate for that loss. The future they had taken for granted has been swept aside and a huge adjustment has been forced on them. In those circumstances I think it a little harsh to label family as selfish for reacting badly to emigration plans. They may not be coping well, but the situation is out of their hands and that sense of helplessness will fuel emotions. You don’t have to change your plans as a result of other people’s reactions, but by the same token family don’t have to pretend they’re happy either. Different sides of the same coin, perhaps. Tx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveandKirsty Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Situation seems vaguely familiar. We are still in the very early stages and have kept our parents informed right from the outset. Kirsty's mum is not dealing with it at all well, such that even though we went on a recce only a few weeks back, it has become a bit of an Elephant in the room. I cannot be done with such foolishness to be honest and my parents are ever so slightly more accepting, but cannot understand why we would want to move away when we "have everything here" Do we, really? All this and yet we are some way off making THE final decision as Kirsty has not even applied for, let alone been granted the visa yet. So, I'd say its a common thing really. But as was stated above, you only get one life and as I have said to my mum (not that it made much difference) if my grandfather hadn't have decided Ireland wasn't for him any more, neither she and thus I would have been born.. Life is what YOU make it, the rest simply have to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I just wonder what the relative's reactions would be if you told them you were moving to another part of the country and whether it would be the same. In practice, moving to Oz or somewhere a few hours drive away is the same as you can't just pop around when you feel like it but special occasions and emergencies are obviously a lot easier to manage. I've always lived many hours drive away from my family or abroad so they have effectively been strangers to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbkitty Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I've been in Aus for 4 years and luckily my parents haven't put any guilt trip on me, however I do worry about my parents (mum especially) & the future as my Sister has now moved here so they have 'lost' both their girls, and my brother who is in the UK with partner & little boy can be very unsupportive & selfish. I'm having a baby next year and my Sister is planning to start a family too - although my parents would never communicate their disappointment at us being so far away, I know they feel it. Saying that, they are currently here on their third trip to Melbourne & staying 5 months this time now they have retired - I wasn't sure they would be keen to make the journey but they love it here. They are both age 60 & I know the trips over will become increasingly difficult. I worry what will happen if they (or we) become sick. I guess you just have to be prepared to be flexible and review your situation when needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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