Poor poor Tories you couldn't make it up!!

[Johndoe]

No, your wrong, the US is doing really well and it is a fact because someone in a pub told me

 

Would that be a pub in brisbane?

[Life on easy street]

February 2013: Alan Johnson;

Asked whether Labour should commit to sticking to the government's spending limits for the first two years if elected – as it did in 1997 – Johnson said it was "difficult to think what else you can do".

"We can't get away from the fact that the fiscal deficit has got to come down," he said

 

So you won't vote Tory

You vote Libs

and Labour seem to be saying they will stick to Osborne’s plan....

 

 

As for the US, The US has $1 trillion in annual deficits, they have to borrow a TRILLION dollars EVERY YEAR and a $16 trillion national debt, so while they may have had some short term growth, right around the time of a Presidential election, who would have predicted that??? They have just announced $85 billion in Government spending cuts and what has happened??? The IMF is planning to cut its U.S. growth forecast for this year due to higher taxes and spending cuts

 

 

 

I have to agree about the U.S

 

 

U.S certainly looks like a financial mess.

 

 

I found this on youtube about the U.S

 

Warning it is an hour long.

 

[Skyba]

Oh right, so after 13 years in office, it's ok for Labour not to have a 'crystal ball' but after 3 years, Osborne is expected to have one...ridiculous comment

 

 

 

Yes, in isolation, Income Tax is the biggest earner, why would I deny it?

However it only accounts for about 25% of Government income, that still leaves 75% from other sources;

 

VAT

Corp Tax

Fuel Duty

NI

Council Tax and other sources

 

 

Didn't Osborne increased the income tax threshold to £10,000 in the last budget, from about £7,500 under Labour, putting money directly into the pockets of people

 

how is it so hard to understand that all those other taxation a you speak of are drastically effected if people aren't in work??

 

VAT : people not working = people spending less = less vat paid

Corp Tax : less work for companies to do = less companies = less corp tax

Fuel Duty : both of the above = less fuel paid as less people/goods/services moving around

NI : pretty obvious how this goes down

Council Tax and other sources : less people working more people on benefits less people paying those taxes, even if you force people to pay what they don't have as they are doing this will just cos even more in taking people who can't afford to pay to court and then settling on them payin £1 a month because they have no income.

 

 

Also labour needed a crystal ball to see the GFC, Osbourne knows what he's doing isn't going to work, the evidence in there and he still won't budge, no crystal ball needed.

 

Every comment you put back has such massive holes in it it's unreal.

[Skyba]

Oh and the tax threshold, if people don't have jobs he's putting money nowhere, if he put that mine into creating jobs he's give more money to more people. Also do you hinestly believe he'd do that I it wasn't for clegg?? It's the one thing they've given to make him feel as if he's doing something, they know that it's a small price to pay because less people are going to benefit because they don't have any work.

[Skyba]

No, your wrong, the US is doing really well and it is a fact because someone in a pub told me

 

 

Typical Tory comment!! Nobody could possibly not support the Tories and have a brain. Also I don't drink I have far more interesting things to do with my time than drink alcahol.

 

As for america, they have growth, and you can't expect the deficit to come down instantly whilst investing in growth but eventually it will, just cutting and cutting will end in going bust from a downward spiral, cut leads on less spending, leads to less money coming in.

 

 

Heres a very simple concept, for the deficit to be removed you must first get 2 things to meet in the middle, this will require 2 things moving toward each other, if you cut but don't work on getting growth you will have 2 things moving down, if you invest but don't try and make savings you will have 2 things going up, if you go for the middle ground and make some savings in some areas but also invest in things that will Get the job market moving again you will have 2 things moving towards each other.

 

 

For someone who is soooo intelligent and has made out that they are obviously of a higher intilect (only really based on the political views rather than any real evidence) this shouldn't really be a hard concept to grasp.

[Guest Andy]

Typical Tory comment!! Nobody could possibly not support the Tories and have a brain. Also I don't drink I have far more interesting things to do with my time than drink alcahol.

 

As for america, they have growth, and you can't expect the deficit to come down instantly whilst investing in growth but eventually it will, just cutting and cutting will end in going bust from a downward spiral, cut leads on less spending, leads to less money coming in.

 

 

Heres a very simple concept, for the deficit to be removed you must first get 2 things to meet in the middle, this will require 2 things moving toward each other, if you cut but don't work on getting growth you will have 2 things moving down, if you invest but don't try and make savings you will have 2 things going up, if you go for the middle ground and make some savings in some areas but also invest in things that will Get the job market moving again you will have 2 things moving towards each other.

 

 

For someone who is soooo intelligent and has made out that they are obviously of a higher intilect (only really based on the political views rather than any real evidence) this shouldn't really be a hard concept to grasp.

Sorry but are you saying that if you vote tory you don't have a brain or if you vote tory you do have a brain?

[Guest chris955]

Skyba, why does everything with you come down to insults ?

[Skyba]

Skyba, why does everything with you come down to insults ?

 

 

Ha the amount of backhanded insults thrown around on this thread has been unreal, just because you don't say it outright doesn't mean it's not implied, pardon me for not being snide and telling it how it is.

 

Guess who my favourite politician is??? Dennis skinner!! The only one there who says it his it is

 

Also is English so hard to read?? Nobody could not support the Tories, as in you have to be a Tory to have a brain, or if you dont Support the tories you dont have a brain. It's there in written English, I did write it in a rush on the park n ride bus and it could have been worded differently, still it shouldn't be that hard to work out it still says what it says.

[wakeboard1980]

Skyba, why does everything with you come down to insults ?

 

Its the intellect thing again. Personal insults when debating a subject and someone being wound up always ends up with swearing and or personal insults. It's happened on this thread from very early on.

 

Apparenly everyone that disagrees with him has no idea or a brain or common sense etc etc.

 

im quite enjoying reading this thread now having a laugh at the childish insults that are being posted.

[wakeboard1980]

Ha the amount of backhanded insults thrown around on this thread has been unreal, just because you don't say it outright doesn't mean it's not implied, pardon me for not being snide and telling it how it is.

 

Guess who my favourite politician is??? Dennis skinner!! The only one there who says it his it is

 

Also is English so hard to read?? Nobody could not support the Tories, as in you have to be a Tory to have a brain, or if you dont Support the tories you dont have a brain. It's there in written English, I did write it in a rush on the park n ride bus and it could have been worded differently, still it shouldn't be that hard to work out it still says what it says.

 

I found it hard to understand to the point Andy beat me to asking the question. Then again I do fail to understand the native tongue now and again.

[Skyba]

How many times have you lot insulted people's intelligence in this thread?? Many more times than me and you started it right from the outset, if you can't take it don't hand it out.

 

I don't need to state how intelligent I am in every thread as others seem to do, I know what I know and I'm far from stupid and have more than enough intelligence. You just pull out any dig you like to detract from the real argument and the real issues which you cannot argue against

[Skyba]

Haven't said anyone doesn't have a brain

the common sense comment was referring to George Osbourne's policies and I can't remember saying someone has no idea other than the government.

 

 

 

Try again

[pablo]

Yeah ok then, that's why you spent 3 days banging on about the debt, without acknowledging that the borrowing is as a direct result of the deficit left by Labour

I don't need to 'big myself up' the fact is Labour left the economy in a mess, with spending out of control and now someone is trying to sort it out.

 

Do you really think Osborne wants it to fail?

 

You havent had to explain the difference between debt and deficit to me or any of the others that disagree with you tho have you????thats just a lie isnt it?.

The initial debt was a result of the deficit left by Labour yes,they have increased it by 300 billion tho havent they?and the deficits down by 13%?,lower than expected,as are the growth forecasts arent they.

Thats my point,so despite all the spending cuts,lay offs,and general tightening of the belts attitude it isnt working is it?

Which gives further indications that those economists that say achieve growth before consolidating the deficit may well be right,at least to me and millions of others anyway.

 

You have been bigging yourself up,lets just be straight here eh,you have continuously said in posts in this thread that your basically educating people as to what the deficit is,that others dont know what it is,therefore with that assertion you are undermining any views they have,or at least trying to,albeit in a not so subtle way

[StevieF8]

how is it so hard to understand that all those other taxation a you speak of are drastically effected if people aren't in work??

 

VAT : people not working = people spending less = less vat paid

Corp Tax : less work for companies to do = less companies = less corp tax

Fuel Duty : both of the above = less fuel paid as less people/goods/services moving around

NI : pretty obvious how this goes down

Council Tax and other sources : less people working more people on benefits less people paying those taxes, even if you force people to pay what they don't have as they are doing this will just cos even more in taking people who can't afford to pay to court and then settling on them payin £1 a month because they have no income.

 

 

Also labour needed a crystal ball to see the GFC, Osbourne knows what he's doing isn't going to work, the evidence in there and he still won't budge, no crystal ball needed.

 

Every comment you put back has such massive holes in it it's unreal.

 

See, your argument would have more sway if you bothered to do some research before just venting your tory-hate filled replies

 

Highest level of VAT collected under Labour = £80.6Bn in 2007/08, it was £63.7Bn in the year they got booted

 

Under the Tories, £73.4Bn, 2010/11, then £79.5Bn, 2011/12...forecast to be £83.8Bn in 2012/13 and £87.7Bn in 2013/14

 

I’m not even going to bother to check the other figures, because you will only try to change track again and again…to continually try to prove something???

 

You’re right, how could anyone, possibly see that 110% and 125% mortgages and uncontrolled spending would lead to a financial crash….

 

I don’t know what you are trying to achieve in this thread by continuing to reply and jump from one conclusion to another. Do you think everyone will come round to voting Labour, just because you and a few others can’t concede that under Labour they made terrible mistakes with the economy, that have virtually admitted as much themselves, without actually saying it.

 

Then you bring up the US but fail to see that their growth is masking an unprecedented amount of deficit and uncontrolled borrowing.

 

Is Osborne getting it all right? No. and I have said as much many times in this thread, I have said that getting the deficit down should be priority 1.

 

Labours idea is borrow even more and spend and HOPE that it will make a return on the investment, Osborne’s is to make efficiency savings

 

That has been Labour’s response throughout the last few years, continue to be borrow and spend, borrow and spend, along with mentioning ‘tax cuts for millionaires’…every time they get on TV..

They haven’t put forward a single policy to deal with it, not one….other that do the same thing that got them into this mess in the first place.

But even the ex-CoE has said they are likely to stick to Osborne’s plan if they got in….

[StevieF8]

You havent had to explain the difference between debt and deficit to me or any of the others that disagree with you tho have you????thats just a lie isnt it?.

The initial debt was a result of the deficit left by Labour yes,they have increased it by 300 billion tho havent they?and the deficits down by 13%?,lower than expected,as are the growth forecasts arent they.

Thats my point,so despite all the spending cuts,lay offs,and general tightening of the belts attitude it isnt working is it?

Which gives further indications that those economists that say achieve growth before consolidating the deficit may well be right,at least to me and millions of others anyway.

 

You have been bigging yourself up,lets just be straight here eh,you have continuously said in posts in this thread that your basically educating people as to what the deficit is,that others dont know what it is,therefore with that assertion you are undermining any views they have,or at least trying to,albeit in a not so subtle way

 

 

Im not looking for anyone to agree or disagree with me, I couldn’t care less, so I don’t know where you’ve got that from.

Fact is you banged on about the debt for days despite the fact that the deficit was blamed for the debt, but what did you do? Continue to bang on about the debt and only now have you started to mention the deficit, that’s your mistake, not mine.

 

You’re only looking at half the picture and think you have all the answers, that’s your fault not mine

 

As for the ‘bigging myself up’ comment again, I don’t need to, if you don’t like what I have to say simply ignore me. I’ve done my research and these are the conclusions I have come to, you’re the one resorting to insults, but that’s ok, you’re on this forum all the time, so that must mean you’re correct….

 

And yeah you’re right Pabs, the deficit is down by about a third…total failure isn’t it?

 

I’m done with this thread; you and others can continue to deny Labour’s mistakes all you like, you convince yourself that they were total saints with the policies they imposed on the UK, whatever it takes for you to get through your day.

[Guest Andy]

Ha the amount of backhanded insults thrown around on this thread has been unreal, just because you don't say it outright doesn't mean it's not implied, pardon me for not being snide and telling it how it is.

 

Guess who my favourite politician is??? Dennis skinner!! The only one there who says it his it is

 

Also is English so hard to read?? Nobody could not support the Tories, as in you have to be a Tory to have a brain, or if you dont Support the tories you dont have a brain. It's there in written English, I did write it in a rush on the park n ride bus and it could have been worded differently, still it shouldn't be that hard to work out it still says what it says.

 

I am still confused to be honest but maybe that is just me being a bit thick. Anyway you appear to be a very angry young bloke maybe you should try and relax a tad instead of getting so worked up.

[Guest chris955]

I am still confused to be honest but maybe that is just me being a bit thick. Anyway you appear to be a very angry young bloke maybe you should try and relax a tad instead of getting so worked up.

 

No, you arent being thick, it doesnt make a lot of sense. I was going to say the same thing about him being an angry young man.

[Skyba]

Got bored of reading your comments now, I started reading the one above where you talk about vat.

 

They raised the VAT by 3% that will mean that more VAT will be collected, they're also putting VAT on more items, it's not a difficult concept really

 

 

Also do you no read your own posts?? You say I'm just replying and trying to get people to my train of thought!! What have you been doing then?? Oh yeah educating lol.

 

You honestly believe that your opinion is the correct one and we are only of the opinion we are because we don't understand lol.

 

 

Also no anger here, just putting some Tories in their place, I'm also realising that this is difficult to d because regardless how much you point out the massive gaping holes in their teory they deny it till the end as they always seem to feel its other people's lack of understanding which is the problem lol.

[pablo]

Im not looking for anyone to agree or disagree with me, I couldn’t care less, so I don’t know where you’ve got that from.

 

#I havent said you do care have i?you argue your points,i will argue mine,easy isnt it?#

 

 

Fact is you banged on about the debt for days despite the fact that the deficit was blamed for the debt, but what did you do? Continue to bang on about the debt and only now have you started to mention the deficit, that’s your mistake, not mine.

 

#See post number 100 on THE BEDROOM TAX thread,date?the 24th.....#

 

You’re only looking at half the picture and think you have all the answers, that’s your fault not mine

 

#I will leave it to others to decide whether that applies to you or me more#

 

As for the ‘bigging myself up’ comment again, I don’t need to, if you don’t like what I have to say simply ignore me. I’ve done my research and these are the conclusions I have come to, you’re the one resorting to insults, but that’s ok, you’re on this forum all the time, so that must mean you’re correct….

 

#Nah,i wont ignore you,not if you are telling lies and they involve me,it WAS a lie,you havent spent 3 days explaining the deficit to me or anyone else,IE thats a lie,thats the truth,not an insult,your assertion you had been explaining the deficit to me for 3 days could be construed as an insult tho#

 

And yeah you’re right Pabs, the deficit is down by about a third…total failure isn’t it?

 

#Last i seen it was 13%?#

I’m done with this thread; you and others can continue to deny Labour’s mistakes all you like, you convince yourself that they were total saints with the policies they imposed on the UK, whatever it takes for you to get through your day.

 

 

I dont deny Labours mistakes,ive pointed out plenty of things i think they've done wrong on here,because im not blindly loyal,however,i havent seen one admission from any of the tories on here that their party "might be" or have made mistakes

[pablo]

Just bumped up the bedroom tax thread for yer Stevie,interesting last post,kinda shows me admitting Labours faults,it also quotes me as saying Labour inherited a budget in balance,thats me "not" being blind,it also shows i was talking about the deficit "3" days ago!,like i say,if you want to debate,im still here,just dont come out with porkys about me and not expect a response,thats fair isnt it

[StevieF8]

I'm not replying in 2 threads......

 

Forget the deficit for a second,its not some mysterious mathematical calc is it after all,anyway,i will ask again,will it make it easier to achieve a budget balance with debts of 1.5 trillion to repay ?

 

You cant just 'forget the deficit'.....I'll try and explain it once again....

 

The debt will continue to go up as long as there is a deficit, once the deficit is gone, then the debt can start to be paid off

 

You cannot pay off the debt, until you clear the deficit.

 

Capisce!!!

 

Never mind all the daft foreign "understand" eh,save that,its not the soprano's,its pio

 

I will ask again,paying off a debt of 1.5 trillion will impact on any deficit?,yes or no will do

 

That's what you deduced from that???

 

Where did I ever say Tory borrowing is ok, but Labour borrowing isn't?

 

No it won't.

 

 

However if you asked will having a deficit of £150bn, impact on debt levels, then the answer is yes

 

Rhubarb again,like the "loads of jobs comment",paying off a debt of 1.5 trillion will have an impact,deficit or no deficit,the repayments come out of the yearly budget

 

Chicken and egg then?dont try and make it all complicated as tho its an exact science,repaying the 1.5 trillion debt the tories leave will impact on the yearly budget(deficit),end of

 

Yes we know,and i'll say it again,the tories will have nearly doubled the debt in just 5 yrs,not great at getting the deficit down then eh?13% in nearly 3 years,at a cost of 300 billion more in loans

 

You’re right I was lying; you had clearly connected the two things together in the right order…

 

I’ll say it again….. You cannot pay off the debt, until you clear the deficit

 

 

And I’m not blinded by loyalty either,

 

Is Osborne 100% right, no, but he is when it comes to getting rid of the deficit, that should be priority 1, for whoever is in charge.

 

Is Osborne getting it all right? No. and I have said as much many times in this thread, I have said that getting the deficit down should be priority 1.

 

 

How many more times do I have to say it?

[StevieF8]

VAT : people not working = people spending less = less vat paid.

 

They raised the VAT by 3% that will mean that more VAT will be collected, they're also putting VAT on more items, it's not a difficult concept really

 

Can you make your mind up?

[pablo]

I'm not replying in 2 threads......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re right I was lying; you had clearly connected the two things together in the right order…

 

I’ll say it again….. You cannot pay off the debt, until you clear the deficit

 

 

And I’m not blinded by loyalty either,

 

 

 

 

 

How many more times do I have to say it?

 

Again,post number 100,the bedroom tax thread,me saying Labour inherited a budget in balance without any prompting from anyone,hardly shows me as in denial does it?also its about the deficit,and its the 24th!

All the above (well some,havent read them all...),is me saying any deficit balance will be harder to achieve while paying back 1.5 trillion in loans ,and it will

[BritChickx]

Playground kids, awww :laugh:

[StevieF8]

Again,post number 100,the bedroom tax thread,me saying Labour inherited a budget in balance without any prompting from anyone,hardly shows me as in denial does it?also its about the deficit,and its the 24th!

All the above (well some,havent read them all...),is me saying any deficit balance will be harder to achieve while paying back 1.5 trillion in loans ,and it will

 

 

And yet again, no it won't....it's the other way round!

 

You can't pay back the loans, while you are in deficit......as long as you are in deficit the loans will keep going up

 

When you have cleared the deficit then loans will come down.