pablo Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Biggest thing that affects deficit/surplus forecasts and therefore debt forecasts is the assumptions that are made in respect of economic growth All chancellors always overestimate this because they are politically motivated to do so. The point of setting up the OBR was to try and create an independent view to provide more realistic forecasts I don't know if Osborne's predictions are 250bn out, or the OBRs are 250bn out. Haven't looked into it tbh, because to me it's not the crux of whether or not the policies are correct I have always hated Osborne BTW. Thought Cameron could and should have got shut of him over the Mandelson/Deripaska affair, actually there was a bit of me thought Cameron might have cooked that one up to give him an excuse to get rid of a liability who he was otherwise too wedded to, but he chickened out. But I don't think when it comes to the general thrust of policy he has a lot of choice other than to attack the deficit and that means austerity It's not particularly radical economics to suggest one of the better ways of handling a recession is to spend on capital projects and stimulate that way. Trouble is, the last Labour government was so profligate in building up a structural deficit in good times that the current government has nowhere to go. That's my major objection to the government of 2005-2010 It might surprise people, given my economic views aired on here many times, that I've mostly been a Labour voter over the years. Blair's first government of 1997-2001 was actually fiscally extremely sound/prudent, as Stevie's deficit graph posted in this thread shows. 2001-2005 got a bit spendy, mainly because Blair was trying to buy votes to atone for dragging Britain into an unpopular war on dodgy ground. 2005-2010, though, was extremely profligate, I think because Brown and others started believing their own publicity and thinking that "an end to boom and bust" had actually been achieved. Very, very foolish, unforgiveably so for me. From 2006 or so onwards I became increasingly alarmed at the ongoing spending commitments (as opposed to one off capital projects) that were being built into the system. When the GFC did hit, that's what stuffed the deficit account and it's what a government of any colour today has to grapple with I still dislike Osborne but I don't think he's got a lot of choice. One of the saddest things for me in all this mess is that "New" Labour's hard-won rep for economic competence - which Blair and Brown worked so hard on pre- and post-1997 - has been p1ssed up the wall by the waste of the late noughties. Can't see them getting it back in a hurry Osbourne agreed with Labours spending plans up till 08 though,so would things have been "that" much different whoever was in power when the GFC hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Question is how much would Asda make over the next 5 years if it invested in 100 more shops!! More or less?? Basic economics Even more basic economics for you....If Adsa opens 100 shops, can they forecast the demand for those shop, they will have to pay rent, heating, staff wages, NI contributions, stock, and so on and the profit each shop will make Answer: No. If just investing more and expecting to get more back was guaranteed, every single person in the country would be doing it...nothing is guaranteed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Errrr goggle it, Gordon brown did, try and get your facts a little correct EPIC FAIL once again.... Brown graduated from Edinburgh with First Class Honours MA degree in history in 1972, and stayed on to obtain his PhD degree in history (which he gained ten years later in 1982) But feel free to try again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Skyba is far to intelligent for you steve and is making you look silly...best give up as you are showing signs of desperation which reads a little sad. You are funny, I'll give you that much..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 You are funny, I'll give you that much..... And you are rather sad, skyba is your daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 And you are rather sad, skyba is your daddy. Seriously, that's the best you've got? That's pretty pathetic, as usual you have offered nothing to an adult debate...all be it one with varying views and opinions and people will usually come down on one side or another, and that is the best you have to offer to it Can't blame you though really, it's the company you keep...must be a nightmare putting all those balls back in the kids ball pit every day at the Wacky Warehouse, you need something to stimulate your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 And you are rather sad, skyba is your daddy. And you pal, are clearly showing your propensity aka "aim" to set one member against another, and to "elevate" some and denegrate others.............as it suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 We are in real danger of slipping into a 3rd recession because of the stubborn policy this government is taking, this idiot Chancellor, George Osborne, is obsessed with reducing the deficit at all costs with No growth plans whatsoever, he has no plan B and this is gjving considerable risk of taking economy back into recession, has been brushed aside as an idiot by financial experts and his one track focus on cuts and more cuts is really worrying for our economy, they will never backtrack as losing face is more important than doing what is right for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 You could say that, but you would be wrong, but that's never stopped you before, so carry on. Like I said, it’s not all about cuts, being efficient is a far better way to run any business, than making cuts, you will see that as you try to run your business, people hear the word efficiency and they think cuts, in some cases yea, in other cases it means trimming the workforce so you are left with the most efficient way of doing business, and EVERY business in the world wants to run efficiently. FACT! You have to look at the consequences of the actions that you take rather than just the numbers!! Yes they let anyone be project managers at 21 of multi million pound drilling contracts!! Just because I'm not a right wing extremist doesn't mean I am less intelligent than you, quite the opposite In fact, I have intelligence and a moral compass. Actually I think you'll find that the HMRC said the 50p tax wasn't bringing in anywhere near what it was forecast to, so it's been lowered to a level that will bring in the optimum rate Possibly not but according to the HMRC, tax avoidance went up massively when the 50p rate came in, that’s cause and effect, so why didn't it happen at the lower rate...possibly because people were comfortable paying the lower rate and felt aggrieved at being over taxed. I've insulted no-one, if you don't like my answers, then simply stop replying to my posts, carry on posting by all means, just don't quote me Again, PRESUMING you know more about business than anyone else, yes every company wants to be efficient but also every business wants to be as profitable as possible, this is not what is being done, if the government was taking every action they could to create growth and it wasn't working then nobody could complain, thing is they've done absolutely nothing, not a jot!! In fact you could easily say they've done the total opposite, they've done nothing to inspire any confidence in the uk and its role in the world, if they carry on the way they are there will be no growth at all and the deficit will not come down because the more you apply cuts/cost savings the more the people of this country rely on the welfare state, the first thing to go in cost cuts is the workforce. Eventually what you will end up with is the top 1% getting all the money, another day 40% of the population doing some low paid work and another 59% not working relying in benefits, now that's not a tough mathematical equation at all, if more people are not working than are and only 1% are earning enough to pay high taxes then it all falls apart. The only solution would be to cut all benefits so people are in the street, get rid of the NHS, and anything else that helps people out. I know this sounds like heaven to you doesn't it?!? Thing is in the real world the vast majority wouldn't accept the reality of this, you'd have some people who would, some of the 1%, but the rest would be because I'm afraid even you in your ivory tower would eventually fall foul of the system because if it got to that much of an extreme it would effect everyone but the richest. On and I noticed something earlier where you said if I borrowed more I'd earn more?? Why make such an idiotic comment, I am an electrician there's only a certain amount I can in eat into that before it becomes pointless, if I was an entrepreneur with countless fingers in countless pies then this would make more sense but if I'm a country with an infinite amount of possible ventures then that's very much the case to a point. The government at the moment is borrowing 0% to put into helping get growth, say I borrowed nearly 15% of my income to get set up, if the government borrowed even 10% think of the good it could do!! Thing is the government could borrow 35/40/50% and it would be able to make that back from what it invested in eventually if the government allowed a realistic timescale for getting the problem fixed. This entire problem had its seeds sewn with thatcher and it has snowballed from there, she de-regulated the banks, she began the distraction of the manufacturing inducted in this country and she destroyed the unions who kept people in work and paying taxes, she destroyed the mines and she sold off the council houses and the utilities just to try and buy votes. Just think how much all that would have brought in?? I pay a ridiculous amount to a FRENCH company for my electricity and gas!!!! Privatisation has destroyed this country beyond any real repair, labour had to try and make the best of a bad situation and did pretty bloody well until the crash (caused by American bankers) if thatcher hadn't sold all the utilities etc they would have had much more to work with and this wouldn't have been half as bad a recession. I'm only 28 how come I can see it yet some of these older heads can't, I have a theory, they lived in the times where it was rich or poor right or left, my generation look at it logically and without a stubborn mind, the types in the Tory party will never get away from this old fashioned train of thought because they are need together go to school together and work together so they never learn from new experiences, it's just old values being recycled over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Again, PRESUMING you know more about business than anyone else, yes every company wants to be efficient but also every business wants to be as profitable as possible, this is not what is being done, if the government was taking every action they could to create growth and it wasn't working then nobody could complain, thing is they've done absolutely nothing, not a jot!! In fact you could easily say they've done the total opposite, they've done nothing to inspire any confidence in the uk and its role in the world, if they carry on the way they are there will be no growth at all and the deficit will not come down because the more you apply cuts/cost savings the more the people of this country rely on the welfare state, the first thing to go in cost cuts is the workforce. Eventually what you will end up with is the top 1% getting all the money, another day 40% of the population doing some low paid work and another 59% not working relying in benefits, now that's not a tough mathematical equation at all, if more people are not working than are and only 1% are earning enough to pay high taxes then it all falls apart. The only solution would be to cut all benefits so people are in the street, get rid of the NHS, and anything else that helps people out. I know this sounds like heaven to you doesn't it?!? Thing is in the real world the vast majority wouldn't accept the reality of this, you'd have some people who would, some of the 1%, but the rest would be because I'm afraid even you in your ivory tower would eventually fall foul of the system because if it got to that much of an extreme it would effect everyone but the richest. On and I noticed something earlier where you said if I borrowed more I'd earn more?? Why make such an idiotic comment, I am an electrician there's only a certain amount I can in eat into that before it becomes pointless, if I was an entrepreneur with countless fingers in countless pies then this would make more sense but if I'm a country with an infinite amount of possible ventures then that's very much the case to a point. The government at the moment is borrowing 0% to put into helping get growth, say I borrowed nearly 15% of my income to get set up, if the government borrowed even 10% think of the good it could do!! Thing is the government could borrow 35/40/50% and it would be able to make that back from what it invested in eventually if the government allowed a realistic timescale for getting the problem fixed. This entire problem had its seeds sewn with thatcher and it has snowballed from there, she de-regulated the banks, she began the distraction of the manufacturing inducted in this country and she destroyed the unions who kept people in work and paying taxes, she destroyed the mines and she sold off the council houses and the utilities just to try and buy votes. Just think how much all that would have brought in?? I pay a ridiculous amount to a FRENCH company for my electricity and gas!!!! Privatisation has destroyed this country beyond any real repair, labour had to try and make the best of a bad situation and did pretty bloody well until the crash (caused by American bankers) if thatcher hadn't sold all the utilities etc they would have had much more to work with and this wouldn't have been half as bad a recession. I'm only 28 how come I can see it yet some of these older heads can't, I have a theory, they lived in the times where it was rich or poor right or left, my generation look at it logically and without a stubborn mind, the types in the Tory party will never get away from this old fashioned train of thought because they are need together go to school together and work together so they never learn from new experiences, it's just old values being recycled over and over. Stop it...Steve will be googling all night....:biglaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Even more basic economics for you....If Adsa opens 100 shops, can they forecast the demand for those shop, they will have to pay rent, heating, staff wages, NI contributions, stock, and so on and the profit each shop will make Answer: No. If just investing more and expecting to get more back was guaranteed, every single person in the country would be doing it...nothing is guaranteed, We are going on the idea that there is demand here as we are not talking about Asda it is an example, this country could create enough demand so if we use our Asda store as an example, it would be like opening 100 Asda stores in a country which has 0 shops. Why have a debate and act as if you are so intelligent and when someone uses an obvious metaphor you take it literally, oh that's right you're a Tory!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Again, PRESUMING you know more about business than anyone else, yes every company wants to be efficient but also every business wants to be as profitable as possible, this is not what is being done, if the government was taking every action they could to create growth and it wasn't working then nobody could complain, thing is they've done absolutely nothing, not a jot!! In fact you could easily say they've done the total opposite, they've done nothing to inspire any confidence in the uk and its role in the world, if they carry on the way they are there will be no growth at all and the deficit will not come down because the more you apply cuts/cost savings the more the people of this country rely on the welfare state, the first thing to go in cost cuts is the workforce. Eventually what you will end up with is the top 1% getting all the money, another day 40% of the population doing some low paid work and another 59% not working relying in benefits, now that's not a tough mathematical equation at all, if more people are not working than are and only 1% are earning enough to pay high taxes then it all falls apart. The only solution would be to cut all benefits so people are in the street, get rid of the NHS, and anything else that helps people out. I know this sounds like heaven to you doesn't it?!? Thing is in the real world the vast majority wouldn't accept the reality of this, you'd have some people who would, some of the 1%, but the rest would be because I'm afraid even you in your ivory tower would eventually fall foul of the system because if it got to that much of an extreme it would effect everyone but the richest. On and I noticed something earlier where you said if I borrowed more I'd earn more?? Why make such an idiotic comment, I am an electrician there's only a certain amount I can in eat into that before it becomes pointless, if I was an entrepreneur with countless fingers in countless pies then this would make more sense but if I'm a country with an infinite amount of possible ventures then that's very much the case to a point. The government at the moment is borrowing 0% to put into helping get growth, say I borrowed nearly 15% of my income to get set up, if the government borrowed even 10% think of the good it could do!! Thing is the government could borrow 35/40/50% and it would be able to make that back from what it invested in eventually if the government allowed a realistic timescale for getting the problem fixed. Unemployment at 59% wow, that pretty bad, wonder if it will get that bad when it currently stands at less than 8% and there are some, albeit small, signs of improvement As for the 'not a jot of investment' comment, what about this then? · £189 million for big data and energy efficient computing to build on the research base’s capacity for analysing big data sets, in areas like earth observation and medical science · £25 million of additional funding for the National Space Technology Programme for the development of commercial products and services using space technology and data from space-based systems · £35 million for centres of excellence in robotics and autonomous systems to be created in and around universities, innovation centres, science parks and enterprise sites to bring together the research base and industry · £45 million for new facilities and equipment for advanced materials research in areas of UK strength such as advanced composites, high-performance alloys, low-energy electronics and telecommunications · £30 million to create dedicated R&D facilities to develop and test new grid scale storage technologies, helping the UK capitalise on its considerable excess energy production, saving money and reducing the national carbon footprint · £50 million for vital upgrades to research equipment and laboratories · £25 million to develop the Advanced Metrology Laboratory at the National Physical Laboratory in Teddington, allowing scientists there to undertake leading edge research in measurement science · £65 million for world-leading research institutes, focused around the development of Rothamsted Research Campus, Aberystwyth, Harwell Oxford and SciTech Daresbury Or does this not count, because it isn’t an investment in the ‘working man’ This entire problem had its seeds sewn with thatcher and it has snowballed from there, she de-regulated the banks, she began the distraction of the manufacturing inducted in this country and she destroyed the unions who kept people in work and paying taxes, she destroyed the mines and she sold off the council houses and the utilities just to try and buy votes. Just think how much all that would have brought in?? I pay a ridiculous amount to a FRENCH company for my electricity and gas!!!! Privatisation has destroyed this country beyond any real repair, labour had to try and make the best of a bad situation and did pretty bloody well until the crash (caused by American bankers) if thatcher hadn't sold all the utilities etc they would have had much more to work with and this wouldn't have been half as bad a recession. I'm only 28 how come I can see it yet some of these older heads can't, I have a theory, they lived in the times where it was rich or poor right or left, my generation look at it logically and without a stubborn mind, the types in the Tory party will never get away from this old fashioned train of thought because they are need together go to school together and work together so they never learn from new experiences, it's just old values being recycled over and over. Brilliant, so what Thatcher did in the 80's has caused the mess we're in today?? What about when Labour got in and ran the country for 13 years, when things were booming, why didn’t they bother to fix things then, why didn’t they sort the banks out when they had the chance and let’s not even mention that they had a budget surplus for 4 years running, 98-01, what happened to that, oh yeah, they blew it by overspending With that comment, you, just like the glass-collector, have lost any shred of credibility you might have had in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Stop it...Steve will be googling all night.... Some of us do research into important topics, it helps us increase our knowledge as we go through life....some of us mop up slops for a living....but hey ho, each to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 We are going on the idea that there is demand here as we are not talking about Asda it is an example, this country could create enough demand so if we use our Asda store as an example, it would be like opening 100 Asda stores in a country which has 0 shops. Why have a debate and act as if you are so intelligent and when someone uses an obvious metaphor you take it literally, oh that's right you're a Tory!! Think you have got a bit lost here, suggest you go back and re-read, if you're struggling, ask PB to help you, he seems to have his finger on the pulse of the economy.....:laugh: Oh yeah, when have I ever said I'm a Tory?....I vote on the policies put forward at election time, only an idiot blindly votes for the same people time after time, without reading the policy manifesto....and in 2010, the Tories had the best policies Unless Labour can come up with some policies, I will be voting Tory at the next election as well, based on current evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I know who he gets advised by,its his watch tho,the buck stops with him as it does any chancellor,i was basically asking do you think he is "confidence inspiring"?The same fellah who said losing the AAA credit rating would be "humiliating",then lost it,yes i understand an economy is dynamic,but really wayward in his figures,dont you think? Like all the forecasts of growth that have been slashed now? you can avoid giving an opinion on him if you like,i will tho,the man is totally uninspiring,he gives me no confidence,and plenty in his own party lack confidence in him from what i read,and i doubt he gives companies much confidence,without confidence there wont be much growth,thats what were seeing.... Really don't know what you're fishing for Pabs, I never said I had confidence in Osborne, I have basically spent 3 days explaining the difference between debt and deficit to you But I do know this, you can't spend beyond your means and expect to get away with it for long, this is what Labour did and they got booted for it Is Osborne 100% right, no, but he is when it comes to getting rid of the deficit, that should be priority 1, for whoever is in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Really don't know what you're fishing for Pabs, I never said I had confidence in Osborne, I have basically spent 3 days explaining the difference between debt and deficit to you But I do know this, you can't spend beyond your means and expect to get away with it for long, this is what Labour did and they got booted for it Is Osborne 100% right, no, but he is when it comes to getting rid of the deficit, that should be priority 1, for whoever is in charge. Except of course after WW2 when British debt was gigantic, something cost effective(not) called the NHS was put into place by a Labour Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Biggest thing that affects deficit/surplus forecasts and therefore debt forecasts is the assumptions that are made in respect of economic growth All chancellors always overestimate this because they are politically motivated to do so. The point of setting up the OBR was to try and create an independent view to provide more realistic forecasts I don't know if Osborne's predictions are 250bn out, or the OBRs are 250bn out. Haven't looked into it tbh, because to me it's not the crux of whether or not the policies are correct I have always hated Osborne BTW. Thought Cameron could and should have got shut of him over the Mandelson/Deripaska affair, actually there was a bit of me thought Cameron might have cooked that one up to give him an excuse to get rid of a liability who he was otherwise too wedded to, but he chickened out. But I don't think when it comes to the general thrust of policy he has a lot of choice other than to attack the deficit and that means austerity It's not particularly radical economics to suggest one of the better ways of handling a recession is to spend on capital projects and stimulate that way. Trouble is, the last Labour government was so profligate in building up a structural deficit in good times that the current government has nowhere to go. That's my major objection to the government of 2005-2010 It might surprise people, given my economic views aired on here many times, that I've mostly been a Labour voter over the years. Blair's first government of 1997-2001 was actually fiscally extremely sound/prudent, as Stevie's deficit graph posted in this thread shows. 2001-2005 got a bit spendy, mainly because Blair was trying to buy votes to atone for dragging Britain into an unpopular war on dodgy ground. 2005-2010, though, was extremely profligate, I think because Brown and others started believing their own publicity and thinking that "an end to boom and bust" had actually been achieved. Very, very foolish, unforgiveably so for me. From 2006 or so onwards I became increasingly alarmed at the ongoing spending commitments (as opposed to one off capital projects) that were being built into the system. When the GFC did hit, that's what stuffed the deficit account and it's what a government of any colour today has to grapple with I still dislike Osborne but I don't think he's got a lot of choice. One of the saddest things for me in all this mess is that "New" Labour's hard-won rep for economic competence - which Blair and Brown worked so hard on pre- and post-1997 - has been p1ssed up the wall by the waste of the late noughties. Can't see them getting it back in a hurry Like you Northshore I have been a labour voter all my life. I was amazed how they have changed over the years though, especially under the leadership of Blair. He started off well enough but then changed till NuLabour was closer to Conservative policies than old fashioned Labour. There didn't and doesn't seem enough difference between the parties for people to know what they are voting for and how things might change. When they lost the last election I thought they wouldn't be able to get back in for a long, long time. Just a few years down the track and this government are so inept that people are going to turn back to Labour again, despite them having a leader who wouldn't fill anyone with confidence. TBH when things were going well for the old Labour government I think any government would have been doing well, just that the whole world seemed to be doing well at the time. There is only so much any government can do and it was a Global Financial Crisis that caused the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Really don't know what you're fishing for Pabs, I never said I had confidence in Osborne, I have basically spent 3 days explaining the difference between debt and deficit to you But I do know this, you can't spend beyond your means and expect to get away with it for long, this is what Labour did and they got booted for it Is Osborne 100% right, no, but he is when it comes to getting rid of the deficit, that should be priority 1, for whoever is in charge. Keep bigging yerself up,but you havent enlightened me one jot im afraid,deficit is simple household outgoings for the year against revenue,more or less,its not hard,i dont know why you are acting so arrogant as to assume i and others dont know what it is?but anyway ,keep trying to perpetuate that,it still isnt right,we know what it is,you are not the oracle sent to enlighten us,much as you keep implying Yes,and he's failing to meet the targets set for reducing it,failing on growth,and all this set against rising utilities,food petrol etc,working tax credit cuts,benefit cuts in general,for the working,unemployed and ill,there isnt a lot else left to cut is there?people are getting sick of it now,especially with no real sign of growth despite all the cuts. He will reach a tipping point where theres hardly anymore services to cut as far as i can see,Labour would still be in power if it wasnt for the GFC,and even then they had to cobble together a coalition to get them out. Labour said the deficit was a priority too,but were going to do it slower,wait for growth(which they left the tories remember?) Anyway,bed now,up at 6,to go to one of those jobs that theres plenty of.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Yeah ok then, that's why you spent 3 days banging on about the debt, without acknowledging that the borrowing is as a direct result of the deficit left by Labour I don't need to 'big myself up' the fact is Labour left the economy in a mess, with spending out of control and now someone is trying to sort it out. Do you really think Osborne wants it to fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Unemployment at 59% wow, that pretty bad, wonder if it will get that bad when it currently stands at less than 8% and there are some, albeit small, signs of improvement As for the 'not a jot of investment' comment, what about this then? · £189 million for big data and energy efficient computing to build on the research base’s capacity for analysing big data sets, in areas like earth observation and medical science · £25 million of additional funding for the National Space Technology Programme for the development of commercial products and services using space technology and data from space-based systems · £35 million for centres of excellence in robotics and autonomous systems to be created in and around universities, innovation centres, science parks and enterprise sites to bring together the research base and industry · £45 million for new facilities and equipment for advanced materials research in areas of UK strength such as advanced composites, high-performance alloys, low-energy electronics and telecommunications · £30 million to create dedicated R&D facilities to develop and test new grid scale storage technologies, helping the UK capitalise on its considerable excess energy production, saving money and reducing the national carbon footprint · £50 million for vital upgrades to research equipment and laboratories · £25 million to develop the Advanced Metrology Laboratory at the National Physical Laboratory in Teddington, allowing scientists there to undertake leading edge research in measurement science · £65 million for world-leading research institutes, focused around the development of Rothamsted Research Campus, Aberystwyth, Harwell Oxford and SciTech Daresbury Or does this not count, because it isn’t an investment in the ‘working man’ Brilliant, so what Thatcher did in the 80's has caused the mess we're in today?? What about when Labour got in and ran the country for 13 years, when things were booming, why didn’t they bother to fix things then, why didn’t they sort the banks out when they had the chance and let’s not even mention that they had a budget surplus for 4 years running, 98-01, what happened to that, oh yeah, they blew it by overspending With that comment, you, just like the glass-collector, have lost any shred of credibility you might have had in this thread. I'll just point this out for you! Just because you think something doesn't make it true, I've lost no credibility whatsoever. Yes what thatcher did all those years ago contributed massively to the current situation, 30 years in politics isn't very long when things that are done have such massive consequences, and another "why didn't labour do x y or s, it's all very good to say why didn't they do this before the crash to help after, hindsight is a beautiful thing, unless they had a Crystal ball they couldn't have foreseen the problem yet it is fairly obvious what problems selling off the public sector has before And after the event. and yes, the fact that money is not being spent on the working man makes a MASSIVE difference, taxation is the biggest earner, or are you going to deny this?? If people aren't working they're taking out and not putting back in which is such an easy problem to see. Maybe no in I'm Alright jack towers but its the biggest and easiest problem to solve, or we could just cook the books And add money to the books that doesn't exist like the 4G sales, that always solves problems in right wing land, well that's how they sort their tax so why wouldn't it work with the country?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Think you have got a bit lost here, suggest you go back and re-read, if you're struggling, ask PB to help you, he seems to have his finger on the pulse of the economy.....:laugh: Oh yeah, when have I ever said I'm a Tory?....I vote on the policies put forward at election time, only an idiot blindly votes for the same people time after time, without reading the policy manifesto....and in 2010, the Tories had the best policies Unless Labour can come up with some policies, I will be voting Tory at the next election as well, based on current evidence. You believe that taxing the poor to pay off the debt and getting rid of public sector is good policy?? Im sorry but for you to ever vote Tory would mean you believe in their unfair right wing politics which whether you bite for them every time or not makes you a Tory!! I didn't vote labour last time, mainly to keep the Tories out where I live, but before this election I could see reasons to vote for the lib dems, problem is now they'll never get my vote because they're the enablers in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Really don't know what you're fishing for Pabs, I never said I had confidence in Osborne, I have basically spent 3 days explaining the difference between debt and deficit to you But I do know this, you can't spend beyond your means and expect to get away with it for long, this is what Labour did and they got booted for it Is Osborne 100% right, no, but he is when it comes to getting rid of the deficit, that should be priority 1, for whoever is in charge. You are just as single minded as those lot though that's the problem, America have invested and are reaping the rewards, all Osbourne is doing is prolonging the pain, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat, cuts and savings along isnt one of them, you need to earn enough as well as make savings to cut the deficit, investment in the short term with savings alongside would do this much easier and quicker than what this lot are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I'll just point this out for you! Just because you think something doesn't make it true, I've lost no credibility whatsoever. Yes what thatcher did all those years ago contributed massively to the current situation, 30 years in politics isn't very long when things that are done have such massive consequences, and another "why didn't labour do x y or s, it's all very good to say why didn't they do this before the crash to help after, hindsight is a beautiful thing, unless they had a Crystal ball they couldn't have foreseen the problem yet it is fairly obvious what problems selling off the public sector has before And after the event. Oh right, so after 13 years in office, it's ok for Labour not to have a 'crystal ball' but after 3 years, Osborne is expected to have one...ridiculous comment and yes, the fact that money is not being spent on the working man makes a MASSIVE difference, taxation is the biggest earner, or are you going to deny this?? If people aren't working they're taking out and not putting back in which is such an easy problem to see. Maybe no in I'm Alright jack towers but its the biggest and easiest problem to solve, or we could just cook the books And add money to the books that doesn't exist like the 4G sales, that always solves problems in right wing land, well that's how they sort their tax so why wouldn't it work with the country?? Yes, in isolation, Income Tax is the biggest earner, why would I deny it? However it only accounts for about 25% of Government income, that still leaves 75% from other sources; VAT Corp Tax Fuel Duty NI Council Tax and other sources Didn't Osborne increased the income tax threshold to £10,000 in the last budget, from about £7,500 under Labour, putting money directly into the pockets of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 You are just as single minded as those lot though that's the problem, America have invested and are reaping the rewards, all Osbourne is doing is prolonging the pain, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat, cuts and savings along isnt one of them, you need to earn enough as well as make savings to cut the deficit, investment in the short term with savings alongside would do this much easier and quicker than what this lot are doing. February 2013: Alan Johnson; Asked whether Labour should commit to sticking to the government's spending limits for the first two years if elected – as it did in 1997 – Johnson said it was "difficult to think what else you can do". "We can't get away from the fact that the fiscal deficit has got to come down," he said So you won't vote Tory You vote Libs and Labour seem to be saying they will stick to Osborne’s plan.... As for the US, The US has $1 trillion in annual deficits, they have to borrow a TRILLION dollars EVERY YEAR and a $16 trillion national debt, so while they may have had some short term growth, right around the time of a Presidential election, who would have predicted that??? They have just announced $85 billion in Government spending cuts and what has happened??? The IMF is planning to cut its U.S. growth forecast for this year due to higher taxes and spending cuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 No, your wrong, the US is doing really well and it is a fact because someone in a pub told me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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