Guest Andy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 see typical Tory presuming everyone else is stupid!!! The debt is going up and so is borrowing which is the problem. Hows this for some "basic economics" in relation to your "running a household" comment. I am a self employed electrician, I mainly work as a subby for big companies doing industrial work, a few months ago I realised that work through these companies wasn't going to be as plentiful and found myself having long periods out of work, what did I do?? I borrowed some money from my bank and INVESTED in a multifunctional tester, I also INVESTED in a membership to a part P scheme, some advertising etc, this in turn allowed me to work on domestic properties for myself as we'll as doing work as a subby. This ACTION gave me more earning potential meaning after spending a little money which I didn't have I increased my earnings therefore leaving me with more money in the end. Thats basic economics or as I like to call it, common sense!! What would have happened if I had refused to borrow and say back and waited for work?? I would have been in bigger trouble as I would have eventually ran out of money. The amount I had to borrow as a % of my income compared to my earnings is far far more than the government would need to borrow and spend to get things moving again. Alright Jack?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i'm well aware of the difference between debt and deficit, there's no need to write a little report on it. Also noticed you just skimmed over the response I gave you because you know that this is the only REAL way to fix the problem, thing is this may mean the rich will have to shoulder a little more responsibility for a bit and might not get their lovely tax break they all cherish so much. Also you said I hadn't acknowledged defecit? i thought it was fairly obvious, I stated that if i hadnt acted in the way I did the money would have run out, this obviously means that more money was leaving my household than coming in, I solved that defecit problem by investing!!! there are people much much much more clued up than you who agree with me, economists all over agree, the only ones who don't are the right wing supporters. And guess what, the proof that cuts don't work are there for all to see. Been doing some research I see... So you invested in your business, why didn't you just invest more then, surely if you borrowed more and invested more you would be even more better off? As for the tax break for the rich comment, that's why Labour put the top rate of tax up to 50p in 1997 was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Forget the deficit for a second,its not some mysterious mathematical calc is it after all,anyway,i will ask again,will it make it easier to achieve a budget balance with debts of 1.5 trillion to repay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Forget the deficit for a second,its not some mysterious mathematical calc is it after all,anyway,i will ask again,will it make it easier to achieve a budget balance with debts of 1.5 trillion to repay ? You cant just 'forget the deficit'.....I'll try and explain it once again.... The debt will continue to go up as long as there is a deficit, once the deficit is gone, then the debt can start to be paid off You cannot pay off the debt, until you clear the deficit. Capisce!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Its ok repeating the mantra "Labour will borrow as per usual",well its set to go up by 700 billion in just 5 yrs,and that without the GFC Labour had to deal with,yet only one of the tories on here addresses it,the rest ignore it (conveniently),nah,the tories dont borrow do they,or put debt up to 80% of GDP by the end of their tenure,not forgetting osbourne being 250 billion OUT in his calcs of a 50 billion debt,its 300,nearly (not)but no cigar eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 You cant just 'forget the deficit'.....I'll try and explain it once again.... The debt will continue to go up as long as there is a deficit, once the deficit is gone, then the debt can start to be paid off You cannot pay off the debt, until you clear the deficit. Capisce!!! Never mind all the daft foreign "understand" eh,save that,its not the soprano's,its pio I will ask again,paying off a debt of 1.5 trillion will impact on any deficit?,yes or no will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 It's not World War I either....but we all have our little sayings.... Now....you can't pay off the debt, as long as you have a deficit 1. You clear the deficit, while you are doing this the debt goes up 2. Once the deficit is clear, you can pay off the debt You do number 1, then number 2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 It's not World War I either....but we all have our little sayings.... Now....you can't pay off the debt, as long as you have a deficit 1. You clear the deficit, while you are doing this the debt goes up 2. Once the deficit is clear, you can pay off the debt You do number 1, then number 2.... Ok,so tory borrowing is ok,but Labours isnt,i get it now....... Still never answered the question,but anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 It's not World War I either....but we all have our little sayings.... Now....you can't pay off the debt, as long as you have a deficit 1. You clear the deficit, while you are doing this the debt goes up 2. Once the deficit is clear, you can pay off the debt You do number 1, then number 2.... As usual you a are talking a number 2, you have a snowballs hell in chance in paying off this massive deficit without investment, to try and pay off the massive interest with massive cuts is unbelievably stupid....all the financial experts are saying this useless government needs plan B but because of their privileged upbringing and stubbornness are taking us into a 3rd recession, when will peop,e get it into their thick heads that to grow you need investment ....not cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ok,so tory borrowing is ok,but Labours isnt,i get it now.......Still never answered the question,but anyway That's what you deduced from that??? Where did I ever say Tory borrowing is ok, but Labour borrowing isn't? I will ask again,paying off a debt of 1.5 trillion will impact on any deficit?,yes or no will do No it won't. However if you asked will having a deficit of £150bn, impact on debt levels, then the answer is yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As usual you a are talking a number 2, you have a snowballs hell in chance in paying off this massive deficit without investment, to try and pay off the massive interest with massive cuts is unbelievably stupid....all the financial experts are saying this useless government needs plan B but because of their privileged upbringing and stubbornness are taking us into a 3rd recession, when will peop,e get it into their thick heads that to grow you need investment ....not cuts. Probably when you get it in to your head, that you can get growth without investments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 That's what you deduced from that??? Where did I ever say Tory borrowing is ok, but Labour borrowing isn't? No it won't. However if you asked will having a deficit of £150bn, impact on debt levels, then the answer is yes Rhubarb again,like the "loads of jobs comment",paying off a debt of 1.5 trillion will have an impact,deficit or no deficit,the repayments come out of the yearly budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Probably when you get it in to your head, that you can get growth without investments.... Ohhh Come on, trump all the financial experts with your little plan :biglaugh: I am sure Alan sugar is on tenterhooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Rhubarb again,like the "loads of jobs comment",paying off a debt of 1.5 trillion will have an impact,deficit or no deficit,the repayments come out of the yearly budget Yeah alright Pabs, you're clearly the economics genius..... Yes repayments come out of the yearly budget, that's the whole point....the yearly budget is currently £100BILLION short to make those repayments....so that leads to....what?....that's right....more borrowing to make up the shortfall.... Lets just look at half the picture shall we...if you can't see that the 2 go hand in hand then I'm not spending all night trying to explain it to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ohhh Come on, trump all the financial experts with your little plan :biglaugh: I am sure Alan sugar is on tenterhooks. All? Like someone that died 4 years ago? Anyone else you want to dig up to support you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yeah alright Pabs, you're clearly the economics genius..... Yes repayments come out of the yearly budget, that's the whole point....the yearly budget is currently £100BILLION short to make those repayments....so that leads to....what?....that's right....more borrowing to make up the shortfall.... Lets just look at half the picture shall we...if you can't see that the 2 go hand in hand then I'm not spending all night trying to explain it to you Chicken and egg then?dont try and make it all complicated as tho its an exact science,repaying the 1.5 trillion debt the tories leave will impact on the yearly budget(deficit),end of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 All? Like someone that died 4 years ago? Anyone else you want to dig up to support you.... Come on, don't be shy, what's this great plan of yours of getting the UK working again....this no investment plan of getting industry moving...no investment pan of getting schools and roads built...this no investment plan of getting the UK working and on the move again........:biglaugh:....plum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 OH FFS!!!! if the deficit is gone, the money that is being pissed down the grid to cover it will be left over to pay the debt.... You get rid of the deficit, then you can get rid of the debt.....the debt will go up every year there is a deficit If Labour got in tomorrow, the first thing they would have to do is BORROW £100Billion, to pay the deficit for this year, it doesn't matter who is in, they need to borrow to pay the deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 OH FFS!!!! if the deficit is gone, the money that is being pissed down the grid to cover it will be left over to pay the debt.... You get rid of the deficit, then you can get rid of the debt.....the debt will go up every year there is a deficit If Labour got in tomorrow, the first thing they would have to do is BORROW £100Billion, to pay the deficit for this year, it doesn't matter who is in, they need to borrow to pay the deficit. Plum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yes we know,and i'll say it again,the tories will have nearly doubled the debt in just 5 yrs,not great at getting the deficit down then eh?13% in nearly 3 years,at a cost of 300 billion more in loans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Plum. We can't all be glass collectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 We can't all be glass collectors Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yes we know,and i'll say it again,the tories will have nearly doubled the debt in just 5 yrs,not great at getting the deficit down then eh?13% in nearly 3 years,at a cost of 300 billion more in loans They could have wiped it out in 5 minutes, simply cut £150bn of spending every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 They could have wiped it out in 5 minutes, simply cut £150bn of spending every year Or put 150 billion of the 300 billion they've borrowed ?or 100 Billion a year for 3 yrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Or put 150 billion of the 300 billion they've borrowed?or 100 million a year? They borrowed £300bn, because they had a deficit....when the deficit is gone, the borrowing will stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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