could you have stayed if things were different?

[whichway1]

I have been thinking about this for a few days. I did not like to live in Oz at all. But I absolutely know that I did not like living there because of my circumstances. Now, I think we are all responsible for our own happiness (except of course in matters outwith our hands) and I, for some reason gave someone else responsibility for my happiness.

 

If you know my posts, you'll know that I love my husband, but struggle to forgive him for what I perceive he did to me.

 

He took me to Oz, basically sold it to me. Before we left I asked him "what would you do if I didn't want to go?" and he said "well we'd split up then." Again, against who I am entirely, despite him saying that, I went with him. And I need to point out that he had only lived in UK for 14 months and was not depressed or anything but had just made his mind up. I cried all the way there, I cried for weeks when we got there, and eventually I stopped crying.

 

In all the 5 years we were in Oz, he never came to the beach with me, he never came with me to one expat meet, we never ever went out for drinks, if we went out for a meal it was the RSL and home again, and we prob did that 5 times. I will grant him that he came to one work night out but of course we had to go straight home after meal. He came with me once to an English couple's house that I met but never came back again. Only in our last year there did he walk the dog with me.

 

I somehow managed 5 years with no friends (in the end I got one) and no social life at all. I tried to meet people myself but basically my confidence was shattered so I just ended up getting drunk and I suspect putting people off me. Every outing was like a first date!! So even though I didn't like it, I stayed 5 years and could probably have stayed another 5 (probably actually my whole life!)...if...

 

He had helped me integrate

I had met friends earlier

If I had found PIO at the BEGINNING of my time there - not the end

If I had had some respite from the baby when she was crying (she was a crying baby)

If my inlaws had helped me like they said they would

If my life had been something other than going to work and then going home

 

I really hate that I go on about him, cos really he is nice and kind and all that, but I find it awfully hard to forget. In all honesty, I am only just now better, in terms of my mental health, and now at least I think of this rationally, but I cannot ignore the facts.

 

Anyway, this thread is totally going way off point. What I was really wondering was, do you think if some things had been different you might have managed to stay in Oz? Like I said, I would have been unhappy but I would have managed to stay.

 

Also, sometimes people downplay the feeling of isolation. I think unless you have been in that situation you cannot assume it is just a case of a weak person missing their peeps. It is much more serious and leads to all sorts. Please never criticize people for feeling isolated and struggling to cope unless you have felt this deeply yourself x x

[Jacaranda]

I know for a fact whichway,had my aussie OH been a different guy(or for the matter me a different woman???)I'd still be there.When we first got together,we lived in a crap area.We stayed there for 3 years and then moved to a nice country town.I had everything there,nice house,great mates,......but not a happy marriage.Your marriage sounds pretty similar to mine actually (think we spoke about it on another thread).My husband changed from the man I first met,and he told me anyway he's always been an arsehole,but was on his best behaviour to trap me.After a couple of times of leaving him,I figured the best thing to do was move 10,000 miles away.The girls and I needed a change.So had my OH not changed for the worse,yes we would still be there.I know anyway my ex OH would'nt of moved to the UK.Being married to my ex,I've never felt so lonely in my life.I did pretty much eveything alone or with the kids and dog.For the record he remarried and the poor woman has gone through exactly the same thing as me.

[Petals]

There is nothing more isolating than an unhappy marriage wherever you are.

 

I have only been married once, my oh twice but we struck gold when we met each other.

 

I have seen my friends and neighbours struggle for years, in the end they just have to split. Life is way too short to be unhappy. Don't ever be afraid to grab the life you want.

 

I am not for splitting with people for a lot of reasons but being isolated from life is one I think is a biggy.

[ali]

I think for me one of the things in your post WW was you said you gave someone else the responsibility for your happiness and acknowledge that you then blamed him when he didn't deliver the goods so to speak. It made me think about when we first arrived, my OH until you get to know him is much quieter and I probably went the other way and 'took over' getting him to come with me to meets etc., until he was up front with me and said he didn't actually enjoy them (he went because I'd organised them). Whilst my intentions were good for us/him to meet others I was really making him do something he didn't want to ... made me think twice about trying to impose what I wanted.

[Lpool7]

Hi WW1, there are lots of us who feel isolated and have done the same as you. My husband is the same, nice guy but I always felt alone with him too. I think if I had found 'the one' here in Oz, I would have stayed but how long can you wait? In the meantime I am doing the same thing, going to work and coming home, talking to no-one out of work - it's demoralising and I just eat and eat, even though I try to go to the gym too.

 

I am now going home and realise that if I am going to be on my own, I'd rather be in a place I call home. I think no matter where you are, if you feel confident and safer you will heal and be happier. Its just making that call and saying enough is enough. I too have given other people a say in my life and happiness only to be disappointed. I think we just need to realise it's our lives and we do matter and should not put up anything that is not what we want if the other person does not make any effort.

 

I hope the future brings you lots of joy as you certainly deserve it XXX

[Quoll]

Having a great marriage certainly helps when you are battling all those other negatives. I think I would have done a bunk back to UK too had I not found my soul mate in my DH and we had decided to call it quits. Even so, we didn't have a totally easy time of it - neither of us are very sociable and we rely a lot on our own resources but we both had demanding careers and two small boys to contend with - it was very hard work. After the initial "woo hoo, this is an adventure" phase I became desensitised to Australia and hanging on for the time I could leave it. I could stick it, sure but in all those years there was the niggling feeling that it was the wrong place for me and that has been obvious from the lifting of my depression now that I have escaped. Situational (or as we used to call it in the old days - exogenous) depression is a very real phenomenon, solved only by removal from the situation - keeping on in the hope that you will "settle" is like continuing to bang your head against the brick wall in the hopes that it will make your headache go away.

[Warm but mild]

Good post Ali, I also agree that no one should expect another person to make them happy, that's a very large responsibility and pressure to place on someone else. We are all responsible for our OWN happiness.

[Quoll]

Good post Ali, I also agree that no one should expect another person to make them happy, that's a very large responsibility and pressure to place on someone else. We are all responsible for our OWN happiness.

 

That is so true but when there are two of you in a marriage, it does help if one member of the team isn't actively contributing to the unhappiness of the other by their actions. That's where compromise and communication are key!

[Guest guest76088]

If my partner was not the amazing woman she is, then I would ne regrette rien and be happy for all the past good times. You make your own choices and luck in life, some good some bad. I don't think holding someone else responsible for your ongoing misery or bitterness is very helpful: least of all to yourself.

 

BigD

 

(my bold in quote below)

 

 

I know for a fact whichway,had my aussie OH been a different guy(or for the matter me a different woman???)I'd still be there.When we first got together,we lived in a crap area.We stayed there for 3 years and then moved to a nice country town.I had everything there,nice house,great mates,......but not a happy marriage.Your marriage sounds pretty similar to mine actually (think we spoke about it on another thread).My husband changed from the man I first met,and he told me anyway he's always been an arsehole,but was on his best behaviour to trap me.After a couple of times of leaving him,I figured the best thing to do was move 10,000 miles away.The girls and I needed a change.So had my OH not changed for the worse,yes we would still be there.I know anyway my ex OH would'nt of moved to the UK.Being married to my ex,I've never felt so lonely in my life.I did pretty much eveything alone or with the kids and dog.For the record he remarried and the poor woman has gone through exactly the same thing as me.

[Guest guest68546]

Good post Ali, I also agree that no one should expect another person to make them happy, that's a very large responsibility and pressure to place on someone else. We are all responsible for our OWN happiness.

This is too simplistic an approach in my opinion; where does a victim of domestic abuse (regardless of gender) fit into this ideal scenario you write about? There are times when the victim of domestic abuse has in all likelyhood underwent years of mental and/or behavioural conditioning at the hands of the abuser. Its wrong to say that the victim is responsible when through such conditioning, the abnormal becomes accepted.

[Warm but mild]

This is too simplistic an approach in my opinion; where does a victim of domestic abuse (regardless of gender) fit into this ideal scenario you write about? There are times when the victim of domestic abuse has in all likelyhood underwent years of mental and/or behavioural conditioning at the hands of the abuser. Its wrong to say that the victim is responsible when through such conditioning, the abnormal becomes accepted.

 

Having never been a victim of domestic abuse, I cannot comment on how I would feel under those circumstances. But I would expect that I would not put up with any abuse, let alone years of it.

[whichway1]

I think that the only way I could have been fully responsible for my own happiness was to have not gone to Oz or to have left him and come home as soon as I realised what my life was going to be there. I really don't think I could have done any more in Oz to try and be happy. I do think in a marriage (or committed relationship) each partner has a duty to the other to at least try to help them be happy. People are always saying "he/she makes me happy" so are some people saying that as soon as said partner does not make you happy anymore you leave? I also understand that giving him the responsibility was a big burden but he WANTED me to go, he asked me to go, he told me I'd be happy there, he told me of all these things that we would do and how good my life would be EVEN THOUGH he knew I didn't want to go.

 

I wish I didn't blame him, I don't want to blame him, but I don't know how not to:frown:. Forgiveness is the key to happiness, I totally believe. I am not as bitter as I was, sometimes I feel like this is a form of therapy for me and everyone responding helps me see the different points and this is my way of healing.

 

Just in regards to domestic abuse. It is awfully easy to say I wouldn't tolerate that but it's like any situation - you have to be in it to know how it feels. It does destroy peoples' confidence and self belief and fear is a massive factor.

[ali]

I think depression can tangle emotions WW, and the fact that you're feeling better in yourself is clear in some of the statements you write

 

Edited to say: I meant that it's obvious you're feeling better.

[tea4too]

I think that the only way I could have been fully responsible for my own happiness was to have not gone to Oz or to have left him and come home as soon as I realised what my life was going to be there. I really don't think I could have done any more in Oz to try and be happy. I do think in a marriage (or committed relationship) each partner has a duty to the other to at least try to help them be happy. People are always saying "he/she makes me happy" so are some people saying that as soon as said partner does not make you happy anymore you leave? I also understand that giving him the responsibility was a big burden but he WANTED me to go, he asked me to go, he told me I'd be happy there, he told me of all these things that we would do and how good my life would be EVEN THOUGH he knew I didn't want to go.

 

I wish I didn't blame him, I don't want to blame him, but I don't know how not to:frown:. Forgiveness is the key to happiness, I totally believe. I am not as bitter as I was, sometimes I feel like this is a form of therapy for me and everyone responding helps me see the different points and this is my way of healing.

 

Just in regards to domestic abuse. It is awfully easy to say I wouldn't tolerate that but it's like any situation - you have to be in it to know how it feels. It does destroy peoples' confidence and self belief and fear is a massive factor.

 

Whichway, would it help to acknowledge that it was ultimately your decision to go to Australia, and you made that decision despite your reservations and because you wanted a good and happy life with your partner? I’m guessing, because I don’t know him, but maybe your partner was only responsible for sharing his dream with you, and when he described the life you would share, he was actually describing the life he hoped you would have, or maybe thought you could have. The reality was very obviously very different for you, both individually and as a couple.

 

 

We can’t change the past, but what we take from it is down to us to an extent. If you can focus on things that have made you stronger as a couple, maybe that will help to make the other stuff less important with time. Sorry if I’m talking a load of rubbish. Take care. :hug: Tx

[whichway1]

I think depression can tangle emotions WW, and the fact that you're feeling better in yourself is clear in some of the statements you write

 

Edited to say: I meant that it's obvious you're feeling better.

 

That's ok I kind of thought it may have been a typo:biggrin:

[Guest guest76088]

I would ask you the same question. At what point was abused raised in this scenario? It was not mentioned or even hinted-at by the OP. Notwitstanding that the point still holds: if a person is in a destructive relationship, they need to first recognise the problem and then permit help. Similar to addiction therapy. Without this two sane adults remaining within the law and not responsible for kids can refuse any assistance or interference.

 

BigD

 

 

 

This is too simplistic an approach in my opinion; where does a victim of domestic abuse (regardless of gender) fit into this ideal scenario you write about? There are times when the victim of domestic abuse has in all likelyhood underwent years of mental and/or behavioural conditioning at the hands of the abuser. Its wrong to say that the victim is responsible when through such conditioning, the abnormal becomes accepted.

[whichway1]

Whichway, would it help to acknowledge that it was ultimately your decision to go to Australia, and you made that decision despite your reservations and because you wanted a good and happy life with your partner? I’m guessing, because I don’t know him, but maybe your partner was only responsible for sharing his dream with you, and when he described the life you would share, he was actually describing the life he hoped you would have, or maybe thought you could have. The reality was very obviously very different for you, both individually and as a couple.

 

 

We can’t change the past, but what we take from it is down to us to an extent. If you can focus on things that have made you stronger as a couple, maybe that will help to make the other stuff less important with time. Sorry if I’m talking a load of rubbish. Take care. :hug: Tx

 

OMG I think you are right!! I have always just thought he was being selfish but maybe he really did think we would have a great life there. I think he expected it would just happen without any effort but you are probably right in that is what he thought. And I know I suppose you are right in that sometimes I do not really acknowledge that it was my decision to go, which I suppose it was. I act like I went under duress when I didn't really. I could have left too but I didn't. I will keep that in my thoughts t4t. Thanks for that, honestly. Are you a marriage counsellor?

[Guest guest68546]

I would ask you the same question. At what point was abused raised in this scenario? It was not mentioned or even hinted-at by the OP. Notwitstanding that the point still holds: if a person is in a destructive relationship, they need to first recognise the problem and then permit help. Similar to addiction therapy. Without this two sane adults remaining within the law and not responsible for kids can refuse any assistance or interference.

BigD

 

I didn't mention the OP either, you've misinterpreted me nor was it having a dig at anyone. I just felt 'Warm but Milds' opinion was a bit simplistic and people being responsible for their own happiness is not such a black and white issue as how the comment came across. If it were that simple the world would be a happier smiling place! I gave domestic abuse as an example, I am sure there are other examples.

[PaulRaynor]

I empathise so much Whichway. 13 years ago my wife, young family and I emigrated to Brisbane for a medical reason involving our elder son. The climate was wonderful for them and they have grown up happy so I have no regrets. When we lived in London we both loved entertaining and had wonderful dinner parties with all our friends who were couples and had young children like us.

 

We are both teachers, she had a lot more experience and had no trouble finding a contract to begin with then a permanent post at a posh private school where she is now. Socially the sexes seemed to be segregated where all the fun seemed to be had on"girls nights out". Not wishing to spoil her fun I let her do what she wanted. I couldn't find a job so easily and wanted to socialise with new friends, couples as we had done before. The husbands didn't seem to want that, preferring the usual fishing, camping and going to rugby/league AFL matches. I had no interest in this and couldn't contribute as much as I tried.

 

Eventually I put my hand up and said, "I'm in trouble here" We decided to take tango classes for something to do together but just ended up kicking each other ha ha! We then booked ballroom dancing classes which I was looking forward to but her best friend Melissa said she wanted to go. She was going through a divorce and my wife felt sorry for her so once again and like a fool I let her go, for it was there she met her current partner.

 

I have no grudges and apportion no blame, life for her in Australia turned out exactly as she wanted, but it was for her and not us as a family. I have no family left in the UK as they have all passed away. Our sons have grown up now and are studying at Uni/TAFE here in Brisbane. I want to see them through that and then return home. I have set a date, Sept 2014.

 

We came with such hopes and dreams, the 4 of us together. Now I return alone

[Quoll]

I empathise so much Whichway. 13 years ago my wife, young family and I emigrated to Brisbane for a medical reason involving our elder son. The climate was wonderful for them and they have grown up happy so I have no regrets. When we lived in London we both loved entertaining and had wonderful dinner parties with all our friends who were couples and had young children like us.

 

We are both teachers, she had a lot more experience and had no trouble finding a contract to begin with then a permanent post at a posh private school where she is now. Socially the sexes seemed to be segregated where all the fun seemed to be had on"girls nights out". Not wishing to spoil her fun I let her do what she wanted. I couldn't find a job so easily and wanted to socialise with new friends, couples as we had done before. The husbands didn't seem to want that, preferring the usual fishing, camping and going to rugby/league AFL matches. I had no interest in this and couldn't contribute as much as I tried.

 

Eventually I put my hand up and said, "I'm in trouble here" We decided to take tango classes for something to do together but just ended up kicking each other ha ha! We then booked ballroom dancing classes which I was looking forward to but her best friend Melissa said she wanted to go. She was going through a divorce and my wife felt sorry for her so once again and like a fool I let her go, for it was there she met her current partner.

 

I have no grudges and apportion no blame, life for her in Australia turned out exactly as she wanted, but it was for her and not us as a family. I have no family left in the UK as they have all passed away. Our sons have grown up now and are studying at Uni/TAFE here in Brisbane. I want to see them through that and then return home. I have set a date, Sept 2014.

 

We came with such hopes and dreams, the 4 of us together. Now I return alone

 

Oh dear, Paul! Sounds like you have been through the wringer too! I hope that you are able to reclaim your life and find real happiness with a move on to somewhere new! There is light at the end of your tunnel!

[whichway1]

paul that does sound sad for you. theres not much i coyld say except to echo quolls words. good luck x

[Paul1Perth]

If you didn't really want to come in the first place and he gave you the ultimatum about splitting up or going it might have been easier to split up.

 

I honestly don't know how you put up with it for 5 years. I would have been out of there. If you have moved on now and are back in Scotland has he changed? It wouldn't help you still holding a grudge after all this time, you have to let it go.

[Guest Guest16631]

..........if things were different.......???

 

..........or perhaps if my reaction was different.......if we cannot change the circumstance........change how we look at it............often it's not the situation but how we react to it..............though when in a family it's the ......whole...that needs considering........But not at the misery of one....iIMO.....

 

...........often we stay until our children are settled...........and if its not a destructive relationship......it's often workable.........though you have to do something for yourself.........not just waiting...........enjoy your life.......even if you have to do it separate to family....

 

.............I empathise with both whichway and Paul..............

 

..............sometimes a partnership does grow apart.............to of enjoyed and made the most of the good times.............and to let go when it no longer suits you both..........is hard...............especially when you stay around for children...........the hardest part is keeping animosity at bay................remembering that you both wanted the best for you and yours...............but accepting your interpretations .............now differ..............I wish you both luck with your choices............may they make........you .....happy.........and hopefully be acceptable to yours................tink x

[whichway1]

If you didn't really want to come in the first place and he gave you the ultimatum about splitting up or going it might have been easier to split up.

 

I honestly don't know how you put up with it for 5 years. I would have been out of there. If you have moved on now and are back in Scotland has he changed? It wouldn't help you still holding a grudge after all this time, you have to let it go.

to move on the most important thing ive had to accept is that even though he did give me the ultimatum, it was me that went, i didnt have to but i did, so he is not responsible really.

i know. i am getting much better at moving towards letting it go. at the time i really should have said no and split up, cos we didnt have family and then and he was putting everything before me. he has changed a lot, he is much more aware of my needs now as i am his.

[VERYSTORMY]

This is mainly for Paul, but I think applies to everyone. We all go through some bad times in our lives, the time of which it can seem hard and difficult to see light at the end of the tunnel. But, believe me there is. I have gone through pretty much every knock life can throw from being a homeless guy living in BHS doorway to death of spouse to suicides of both kid brother to daughter. And a whole lot in between. Heck, even the local undertaker recently commented "I don't know how you have got through it all". But, if there is one thing I have learned it is that all of them bad times will result in a positive down the track and when you can only see uncertainty the future will be better than you think, you just can't see it yet. It might seem that Oz hasn't turned out right and I am sure part of you is wondering what the UK will bring. I will put money it will bring some happiness. Just remember, when you have the positive happy times in the future that everything in the past was necessary to get you to that point.