Aussies are appalling and dangerous drivers

[rikyuu]

As for the law if any part of a car is in front of us and we hit it, we are in the wrong.

 

I also heard that somewhere too. Someone can swerve into you from their lane and providing a few cm of their car is ahead of yours, it's your fault. Can't be true can it? If it is, I know what to do when I need a new car!

[Johndoe]

seems a bit much. how do you know they're not Aussies?

 

I don't which is why I used the word "extraction".

 

warning: pedant head on. If the OP had titled the thread "The standard of driving in Oz is plss poor", then I would agree in general, and wouldn't even have bothered to respond, but I don't agree in labelling all plss poor drivers as "Aussie".

 

I had my share of witnessing similar driving in the UK so for all I know (having only recent experience of these two countries alone), it may well be the same anywhere and has nothing at all to do with nationality and more to do with how inconsiderate/lazy/thick a large population of any country may be. IMHO, standards have dropped across the spectrum of people in general, and not just in driving....................very little courtesy/goodwill around in many areas of life.

[rikyuu]

you mean with respect to privacy rights? I dunno, same as any security camera I suppose or any camera used in public.

[Johndoe]

There's a serious side to this; whilst the authorities continue to focus only on speed (a great money spinner) and whilst everyone else burries their heads in the sand knowing no different and not tackling the issue, the lives of our families and children will continue to be deleted.

 

It's just as well they do then isn't it, as speed was the biggest killer on our roads, having been overtaken only recently by "illegal manouvres"

[Harpodom]

FWIW I think the main issue with Aus driving (whether they be Aussies, Poms, Phillipino etc) is the erratic lane behaviour coupled with most cars having cruise control. So someone can sit in the middle/right lane doing 95 and the ONLY way to get past them is to oveertake on the inside. The other issue with cruise control is that someone who is overtaking may take a few minutes to do so (as their speed relative to yours is much less than walking pace) will then pull in front of you leaving you with a gap of about 10 feet, so you have to slow down as you're right up their arse.

[BrisDubBris]

Have to agree that in general the standard of driving here in Brisbane is pretty ordinary.

[Mojo48]

Spot on rikyuu

 

Every time i go out in car i always wonder if i will make it home for that reason! I very rarely take my grandchildren out in the car because of dangerous driving here. Ive been home to the Uk a few times in past 2 yrs and it was fantastic to come off a slip road onto the motorway and have everyone move over for me and have people leave a gap for me to pull into. It was also nice to have people smile and say thankyou! There is no courtesy here at all.

 

There are dozens of different nationalities driving on these roads and all have different driving standards. So makes for a bad mix. I remember seeing Top Gear a few years ago. Jeremey Clarkson was in India i think and they showed us an Indian driving test. If i remember rightly, all they guy had to do was drive the car in a straight line, on a dirt track for 30 seconds, A to B. And he was handed a pass!! :wideeyed: Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure that was it.

[Love Shoes]

you mean with respect to privacy rights? I dunno, same as any security camera I suppose or any camera used in public.

 

No I mean are they legal in the sense that certain speed detector camera´s are not legal whereas some are ........ I.e., would the Police get mad, really mad if they stopped you and saw that you had a speed detector in your car.

[Love Shoes]

I think most of the problems are caused because of some of the very poor roads, how can we all drive well, when we are dodging pot holes and trying not to fall off the edge of the road.

There is murder going on in our town, I was talking to a guy a few weeks ago, who said that Gillard had promised a new road to Brisbane as the one we have generally floods, and it is the main thorough fair for the lorries et. et. I haven´t done the drive yet, we plan to at the end of this month, and to be honest it is this road that has been putting us both off. This guy was going mad at the fact that this road has not materialised yet the government are spending a fortune on a national broadband, I know nothing of the politics here, I am only repeating what a local guy he said to me.

 

But the roads are poor for a first world country IMO ...... I know I cannot speak for the rest of the Country but they are awful here ....

[Slean Wolfhead]

There are dozens of different nationalities driving on these roads and all have different driving standards. So makes for a bad mix. I remember seeing Top Gear a few years ago. Jeremey Clarkson was in India i think and they showed us an Indian driving test. If i remember rightly, all they guy had to do was drive the car in a straight line, on a dirt track for 30 seconds, A to B. And he was handed a pass!! :wideeyed: Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure that was it.

 

No you're right. In a lot of parts of India they don't even do that...just pay the man and you're away, or just don't bother with a license and bribe the policeman if you ever get stopped.

I once drove round a bend in South India and there was a man fast asleep in the middle of the road because it was the only shaded spot. The drivers all have a little personal "God" figurine in the front of the cars to protect them. They reckon that gives them more protection than learning to drive safely.

Also, you give way to bigger vehicles coming the other way, so if a lorry comes round a bend on the wrong side of the road, it's because he's bigger and he can do that....so it's your job to avoid him. If there's an accident, the police will say with a straight face "why didn't you get out of the way?" Unfortunately, people are normally dead so there are no witnesses to dispute anything.

It's actually a very logical place, even if it's mental, dangerous and makes no sense.

 

Back to Australia....

There's a lot on here I agree with, having bitten my tongue for 6 months when driving, it's a bit rednecky .

1. Outside lane hoggers.

2. Poor awareness of what's going on around them.

3. Poor driving skills, such as swinging out across the centreline of even wide roads when turning left. I mean....do you know how to turn a corner and keep the left hand kerb 3ft away so you don't smash into someone with your offside bumper?

4. When it rains, they don't seem to know how to change their driving technique, they just plough ahead and then blame the car if they crash?

5. Crap cars....how many drive without one or both headlights in the dark?

 

Surely though, the skills here are not going to be the same as the UK, with our little narrow streets, 90 degree turns, poor visibility at junctions, mini bloody roundabouts springing up everywhere, overcrowded roads and motorways, increasing numbers of traffic lights and regulations, ice, rain, experience of when to slow down and drive to the conditions......you have to develop sharper reactions and have much more awareness of what's going on around you, plus you need more control over a vehicle and the use of a manual gives you that?

The Aussies don't need a lot of that.....you can land an aeroplane on some of these roads and there's no other traffic so what does it matter normally if you don't indicate? Why learn about gear control when you haven't got any? I'd guess that the Aussies are better at driving long distances on very boring straight roads, just because they're mentally geared up for it better than immigrants?

 

Coming here was a godsend for the space and the visibility and the driving is brilliant. Same rules apply here as anywhere.....you drive to the local conditions. If the local conditions means you have to watch out more for local drivers...then so be it.

[rikyuu]

I haven't really found an issue with the condition of the roads, mainly because I drive around the outer city and the west where the roads are mostly new. The city roads where I lived in the UK were terrible.

Once you get out of the city here, off the main freeway, they can deteriorate a bit and some are a strip of tarmac (black top) with no proper edging. Some are only passable in a 4x4! The roads are wide, straight, open, clean, smooth and fairly new where I drive, so it should really be a nicer experience.

 

So when could I consider myself an Aussie driver? I've got a big V8, is that enough?:biggrin:

[Guest Guest69235]

I can only say about NSW. Handling tailgaters is easy. You brake slowly and force them to brake along with you. Until you are under the speeding limit and they can get on with their own business. It doesn't make for fast driving, but it does make for safe driving. Joining freeways is also easy. If there is a solid white line, its your responsibility to slow down and wait for a gap and give way to traffic behind you. Otherwise the car that is behind is supposed to give way to the car in the front. Finally, maintaining the 3 seconds crash space is your responsibility. Also, at intersections, you give way to vehicles on the right vehicles and coming straight. Even if you have a green light, you can't enter the intersection if there is risk of clogging it up.

 

QUESTION: You have a green light, you start entering the intersection, somebody comes speeding from the right and crashes into you. Who is at fault?

[Guest]

I'm so showing this thread to my husband :laugh:

 

After 7 or so years in the UK his memory may be clouded somewhat. He often mentions how crap UK drivers can be in some respects (roundabouts and lack of proper indication on them are his pet peeve here) and says Aussies were better in some respects on the road (at least in cities).

 

Me. I can't say I noticed overly about how bad others were. I was a passenger most of the time last trip and was more worried about the person driving the car I was in than anyone else on the road :wideeyed: I don't recall it being too bad where we were. But saying that, heading out more rural the amount of crosses on the roadside was frightening.

 

I plan to cycle locally when we move over. Hubby plans to cycle like he does here. To work and back, for exercise on extended bike rides (he does 6 hours and doesn't blink at that these days). We'll have a car but we hope to be living in an area where shops are within walking distance or cycle and so on. That'll be a whole other ball game to get to grips with eh :eek:

[Petals]

Sorry? So if someone goes to overtake, gets their front bumper a few cm ahead of you then turns in and hits you, you're to blame? How about someone who pulls in front of you from a side road?

 

BTW cameras are on Ebay for about $50 or more expensive/better? from here (who where on ACA) http://www.autoblackbox.com.au/index.php?route=common/home

 

Basically in law which means when people are merging if you hit one and they are in front you get to pay. Coming in from a side road is usually going against a give way or stop sign so of course they would be in the wrong.

 

I hate people who indicate on roudabouts when they are going straight through.

 

Law comes in to it once you have to cross a line or a broken line. When in lane you have to keep a proper look out and therefore not run into people's rear.

[Guest Guest69235]

Basically in law which means when people are merging if you hit one and they are in front you get to pay. Coming in from a side road is usually going against a give way or stop sign so of course they would be in the wrong.

 

I hate people who indicate on roudabouts when they are going straight through.

 

Law comes in to it once you have to cross a line or a broken line. When in lane you have to keep a proper look out and therefore not run into people's rear.

 

You do indicate on roundabouts when going straight through... right before you are about to leave you give the left indicator. You don't indicate at the beginning though.

[fleabo]

Once you've wrapped it around a lamp post (if you can find one that is!)

 

So when could I consider myself an Aussie driver? I've got a big V8, is that enough?:biggrin:

[fleabo]

That's old school isn't it?

 

You do indicate on roundabouts when going straight through... right before you are about to leave you give the left indicator. You don't indicate at the beginning though.

[Guest Guest69235]

That's old school isn't it?

 

Dunno about old school, but the NSW road user's handbook has this to say:

 

Exiting a roundabout: If practical, you must signal left when leaving the roundabout.

[Sir Les Patterson]

In Queensland you have to indicate before exiting the roundabout

 

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-Road-Rules/Road-rules-refresher/Roundabouts.aspx

 

but then I'm one of those appalling and dangerous Aussies so WTF would I know.

[Guest MADTOM]

Warning - this is a rant, please don't read it if your after something nice! :biggrin:

 

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how appalling and dangerous Aussie drivers are? I'm an experienced driver with 20 years driving in the UK with no accidents or speeding fines, within 12 months of coming to Aus, I've been hit once and had 2 speeding fines (for going 4mph over the limit on empty straight roads). I'm not timid and like to make progress. I used to think there were some bad drivers in the UK, but mainly they were bad on purpose ie. trying to annoy you or trying to get ahead, but here the drivers are bad because they are absolutely clueless. They seem to have no idea what is safe and what is dangerous and crashing (according to my younger colleagues who have had several crashes in just a few years) is normal. There are crashes and traffic jams everywhere all the time due to bad driving. It's like the wild west of driving and it's probably my biggest concern, both for me and my wife an kids. The speed limits here are stupidly low, like 100kph (60mph) max, but mostly 30-50mph and stictly enforced, no 10% allowed here. I was comfortable doing 70mph+ in the UK all day long. Yet even at these low speeds here, I fear for my life, the driving is diabolical. There's lots of comment on the car forums about the UK getting a 80mph limit and why can we have it here etc. Well it's because of the appalling driving, which means you will crash a lot, which means it's best to have low limits to reduce the number of dead people.

 

Here are some examples that I see most days;

 

There's no lane discipline, people sit in the outside lane holding up traffic. I regularly see people join a freeway, go straight to the outside lane and sit there below the speed limit even when the other lanes are empty.

 

Due to the above, there's lots of over taking on the left and swerving around other traffic with dangerous lane changes.

 

There is no courtesy, people will not let you change lane, merge, enter a freeway or pull out of a junction.

 

People change lane frequently for no reason and dangerously into gaps that don't exist. During my typical journey to work I will have to avoid hitting around 5 cars randomly changing lane for no reason. Typically I'll see someone in a fairly empty right lane, they'll suddenly swerve into your lane forcing you to brake hard, you'll think they must be turning at the next junction, but no, it was just the irresistable urge to change lane.

A few weeks ago, I couldn't avoid one lane changer and she hit the front left of my bumper with the right rear of her car. Fortunately it was my company's car, but no word of an apology and a week later a letter came from her insurance company claiming it was my fault. It said she was turning right and I hit the rear of her (it was a freeway with no right turns and the damage was on the side), so my company is fighting against this or course. Because of this (and the general bad driving) I've fitted both our cars with front and rear cameras which record continuously.

 

People drive an inch off your bumber everywhere, through the housing estates, single lane roads and freeways. Then wonder why there are crashes, traffic jams and why no-one can join a freeway - no gaps to merge. As an example, within 1km of setting off this morning, I had 3 cars driving an inch off my bumper. My housing estate is quiet, not many cars that time in the morning, it's 50kph with some ramps, I do just under that. 1st car appears after 2mins on my bumper all the way then turns off. 30s later 2nd cars appears on my bumper, turns off again. I turn onto a faster 70kph single lane road and sit at 70. 30s later, another car on my bumper, weaving left to right, looking to overtake (it's only 200m to the freeway junction).

 

People overtake when you are joining the freeway. Unbelievably, when your booting it on the slip road to join the freeway the car behind you often tries to overtake, either blocking you from joining, or serving into the outside lane to avoid you and cutting up someone else. This happens regularly, I see it most days.

 

Even more unbelievably, people use the on ramp (slip road) for freeways to overtake, especially the ones that continue for a few hundred metres. They see an empty on ramp, swerve across the solid white lines to the on ramp and try to get ahead of the 1 or 2 cars in front of them before forcing their way back in, making everyone else brake and cause a traffic jam. I see this all the time. In fact everyone ignores solid white lines and cross hatching completed. If you're wanting to take the left lane to turn off and you're waiting for the solid white line to break up with your left indicator on, it's too late as everyone behind you will have already crossed over it and will be overtaking you on the left.

 

From all this you'd think that everyone is in so much of a rush that they'd all be speeding everywhere. But this isn't the case. The authorities have invested so much in reducing speeding with so many cameras, awareness ads and such low speed limits, that most of this happens below the speed limit or at relatively low speeds. It's almost as if it's all ok, because it's below or around the speed limit. It fact, the annoying thing is, if you move over for a tailgater on a multilane road, they won't actually go past, they'lll just sit next to you on the speed limit. I've done this several times and then been stuck in the left lane as the tailgater won't exceed the speed limit and just sits next to me.

 

Road works have stupidly low speed limits. For example, a 100kph section of freeway near me had some work being done to the edge. There were concrete barriers errected, tied together with steel cables (that would stop a tank) and a fence errected to prevent flying debris. The speed limit at that point was 40kph. Even with fairly low traffic, it was utter chaos with some cars slowing to 40kph, other continuing at 100kph for a bit and others somehwere in between, lots of lane swappnig, swerving and heavy braking. In addition to this, a lot of road works don't indicate where the speed limit has returned to normal. Hence again you get lots of speed differences, some still doing 40kph in the outside lane, others swerving to accelrate up to 100kph on the inside lane. All these safety measures, usually end up with carnage, or a lengthy traffic jam at best.

 

Then we get onto traffic lights. Almost every junction has traffic lights as people can't be trusted to enter or leave a junction themselves without lights controlling it. Not ony that, the lights control every lane of the traffic and there's a filter light for every direction. In the UK, normally you can judge whether it's safe to turn left or right at a junction with out a filter light, but not here, it's all controlled. That means that the red light is on for an inordinate amount of time, whilst all the cars in the other directions are filtered through, left, right, straight on, u-turn, all in turn before it gets back to you. Not only does this cause huge congestion at almost every junction, but it means many, many people run a red light. I'ved stopped at red lights and had people behind me swerve around to go through it. I've pulled out of junctions on a green light and someones come through the red in the other direction after I've gone through and I've seen it many times and seen many crashes like this. So I try to wait before setting off, but as the lights change directly from red to green (no amber), if you don't set off instantly (which means keeping the car in gear), the cars behind immediately beep you.

 

There is no forward planning for junctions, turns, freeways etc. I see many cars driving in the lane opposite to the turn they will be making or in the outside lane of the freeway when they turning off the next junction - often under the speed limit holding up traffic, then swerve across 3-4 lanes at the last minute to make the turn or exit the freeway. When joining the freeway, no-one matches the speed of the traffic, then merges into the most convenient gap in the traffic. Everyone goes right to the end of the on ramp and forces their way in. I've often left gaps for people to merge, but they don't want to, instead going right to the end to get 1 or 2 cars ahead, then forcing their way in. That's why the traffic builds up, because everyone else has to brake to avoid them.

 

Trucks roll all the time, it's like a common event. These things are twice the length of UK trucks, can you imagine how dangerous one of these things are? They also drive an inch off your bumper, with bull bars on the front, as high as a house. I've recently learnt to drive a truck and I know air brakes take a second to respond. Add to this your reaction times and the cars in front are toast.

 

Add into this mix that the cheapest car for 17 year olds to buy when the pass their tests is either a 4 litre falcon or 3.8 litre V6 commodore, both with rear wheel drive and no traction control, it's easy to see why nearly every day it's on the news about another (commdore or falcon) crashing through a house or wrapping itself around a tree or pole killing the occupants.

 

There are driving schools around, but not many. Most kids are taught by their parents who are already appalling drivers. Judging by how easy it was for me to get me truck licence (1/2 day training) I figure the car license must

be easy too.

 

You don't need insurance (mostly the above 17 yo don't have it). Insurance required to drive the car is included in the registration, but it only includes injury insurance. So you have lots of kids driving 250hp cars with no third party insurance. You have to hope when they hit you, they stop and offer to pay for the damage (unlikely).

 

All the time I see cars crashed in the strangest of places, through fences, backwards/up side down in the central reservation. Usually the afore mentioned Falcons and commodores.

 

There's about 1 motor cyclist death a day on the news (in Melbourne alone). Not suprising when you see how they ride. I was a motorcyclist for several years in the UK, but would not consider it at all in Australia due to the poor car drivering. So you would think the motorcyclists here would be a bit more careful, not a chance. I've had them go past on the freeway, any which way, left right, between cars then place themselves a few inches off my front bumper whilst doing 100kph.

 

Amazingly, checking the roadworthyness of a car (like an MOT) is the job of the police! There's no annual check (apart from NSW I think), so there are many cars on the road with bald tyres, smoking exhaust, poor wipers, poor brakes, poor/broken/dangerous headlights (you get dazzled by maladjusted headlights all the time and fitting HIDs is all the rage and they just blind you as they spread light everywhere), all leading to lots of break downs and crashes. I say it's the job of the police, because in the absence of anyone else, they do a vehicle check when they pull you over and many are vehicle experts and check for engine mods and stuff. This is the only time a vehicle gets checked, apart from when it's sold to a new owner. An annual MOT would prevent most of the stupid mods people do and a lot of the break downs.

 

When people break down, they either make no effort to get off the road or can't do because people are not courteous enought to let them move over. Almost every broken down car/truck I see is left in the middle of the road or freeway causing chaos. Many don't have break down cover, so cars are just abandoned until 'a mate' can tow them. 7 out of 10 or my commuting journeys each week have long queues caused by crashes or break downs.

 

According to the RACV, 50% of breakdowns are due to running out of fuel. You can't believe the traffic chaos these breakdowns cause, a 30 minutes journey becomes 3 hours with the resulting crashes caused by the queue. I can't believe so many people run out of fuel, but my colleagues seem to think it's fun seeing how low the guauge can get. To top it off, a lot of freeways provide free fuel to anyone who runs out and causes this chaos.

 

There are police everywhere, I mean everywhere and mostly in unmarked cars. But their only priority is catching anyone doing 1kph over the spead limit or modified cars, so the poor driving goes unoticed. In fact I've seen very poor driving by police cars and that's just the marked ones.

 

So that's all I can think of, congratulations if you made it to the end! LOL.

 

Wow hit the nail on the head...

[Eng32]

I have to say that this subject scares the living sh*t out of me :cry: I have heard on and off of the many deaths on the road and the appalling and dangerous driving i will encounter when we get there. We arrive in a weeks time in Queensland and out of all the difficulties we will face as a new migrant, it is this that really bothers me the most, as a mum with a 5 year old that will be in the car too :frown:.

 

My husband is a very keen cyclist who thinks nothing of going out on the roads on his racing bike for a few hours and i'm really concerned that he'll be in real danger from random swerving cars, cars running red light etc etc...... will he be safe out on his bike???? any advice pleeeeeeeeeease :wideeyed:

[Sir Les Patterson]

Don't believe everything you read....especially on here.

[freebo]

I have to say that this subject scares the living sh*t out of me :cry: I have heard on and off of the many deaths on the road and the appalling and dangerous driving i will encounter when we get there. We arrive in a weeks time in Queensland and out of all the difficulties we will face as a new migrant, it is this that really bothers me the most, as a mum with a 5 year old that will be in the car too :frown:.

 

My husband is a very keen cyclist who thinks nothing of going out on the roads on his racing bike for a few hours and i'm really concerned that he'll be in real danger from random swerving cars, cars running red light etc etc...... will he be safe out on his bike???? any advice pleeeeeeeeeease :wideeyed:

 

 

I'm in QLD.

 

Driving styles here are very different to the UK, never mind which nationalities are actually doing the driving, although I looked up road mortality rates after reading/contributing to this, result is that Aus is good (surprised me), but UK is better by most measures.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

Heaps of cyclists here, and they seem to do OK.

 

Maybe you'll find driving "different", maybe not but its a different country and not everything will be the same, not everything will be better.

[ozindublin]

I walk both my kids to school every morning, and regularly come across parents (mostly Dads(sorry Dads)) who are running late and park their cars vertically in a more than sufficient parallel car space, covering the footpaths, I can''t even walk past them! It enrages me, and this is the way they drive outside of schools, also parents on mobile phones whilst driving around schools, almost driving through lollypop man, reversing into the street from side streets (on mobiles), oh, and parents who don't even bother to put their kiids in seat belts... bad driving outside of schools is the worst! .... by the way I don't live in Australia yet... bad drivers are all over the world, more noticable in cities too, cause there's more of them!

[Guest]

My husband is a very keen cyclist who thinks nothing of going out on the roads on his racing bike for a few hours and i'm really concerned that he'll be in real danger from random swerving cars, cars running red light etc etc...... will he be safe out on his bike???? any advice pleeeeeeeeeease :wideeyed:

 

My husband is also. And cycled around his home city in Aus just fine for a number of years. He's been over here 7 years or so now and is often gone for the day cycling with his road club or by himself.

 

He also has a friend in Aus who is an avid cyclist and has cycled round Aus (as in the coast roads all the way round... took a fair few months) and he survived to tell the tale Got one hell of a cycle tan though :eek:

 

I think the worry (and risk) is always there with cycling but then the same can be said of crossing the road on foot, going for a swim or climbing a mountain or driving a car.