Leaving because of racism experience

[Petals]

In Sydney that 'someone who is "different"' is likely to be 'European!'

 

 

Sorry, but do you mean that Europeans are not the subject of racism.

 

I posted somewhere this week about my daughter's experience in the supermarket in CBD Melbourne, a guy, English came up to her and said "why are all aussie women stupid" her response was "I do not know I am a stupid aussie woman". Now I think he had made an assumption that she was not Australian why have no idea.

 

I think we have to recognise that racism or difference as I like to call it, having actually spent my formative years living in a country with apartheid, affects everyone its just how we read it and how much offence we take.

[flag of convenience]

Look I am now an Australian citizen and I wanted to be I do not want to be a a pc Brit anymore. I am sure that a lot of people are just like me but that does not mean that we would be mean to rude to people. People who are mean and rude will be no matter what the law says.

More a case of infantile behaviour perhaps which is rather evident. Not sure about the pc Brit part though. Am I really the only one that don't really find Aussies as outgoing as is often stated.

[Petals]

More a case of infantile behaviour perhaps which is rather evident. Not sure about the pc Brit part though. Am I really the only one that don't really find Aussies as outgoing as is often stated.

 

Aussies who are three sheets to the wind overseas etc cannot be taken as who Aussies are. Aussies are very closed shop in a lot of cases, stick to the family unit. They may be friends with you for years and still never include you, as that is the way it is. Now this is a generalisation, of course not all Aussies are like this but a lot are. This of course is not only in Aus, depends on Briggs Myers wherever we are. Lots of introverts in Aus.

 

I do believe that Americans are definitely more extroverted though.

[Skani]

Australia has only had a visible immigration (non white) has only been part of the picture since fairly recent times with the arrival of Indo Chinese refugees in the late seventies.

 

 

Non white immigration in large numbers occurred earlier than that, but in rural areas, so not visible in the cities: Chinese migration to the gold rushes in the 1850s, Pacific Islanders to the Queensland canefields from the 1860s, and Indian Sikh migration to northern NSW in the late 1800s. (About 90% of the banana plantations around Coffs Harbour are owned by Sikhs).

[Petals]

Non white immigration in large numbers occurred earlier than that, but in rural areas, so not visible in the cities: Chinese migration to the gold rushes in the 1850s, Pacific Islanders to the Queensland canefields from the 1860s, and Indian Sikh migration to northern NSW in the late 1800s. (About 90% of the banana plantations around Coffs Harbour are owned by Sikhs).

 

Agree Skani and do not forget the Afghan people who brought the Camels to the outback and the Japanese who brought pearl diving to Broom. These people go way back

[flag of convenience]

I agree, although I believe that if people meet other races through friends or work they get to know them just like the natives and make their own assumptions on being friends or not.

 

I would say Aussies are less likely to approach someone who is "different" and try to make friends with them.

I very much agree with this sentiment. Australians do give the impression of discomfort with difference. At times we tend to forget that this is a rather conservative country for better or worse and people prefer things to change slowly if at all.

 

Connecting with locals can be difficult at the best of times even for those of us who look and speak similar let alone those who appear different due to reasons of colour, accent, or clothing etc.

[Skani]

Agree Skani and do not forget the Afghan people who brought the Camels to the outback and the Japanese who brought pearl diving to Broom. These people go way back

 

Thanks Petals. I had remembered the Afghans but couldn't remember when they started arriving (and they did give their name to the Ghan train!) but I had forgotten about the Japanese pearlers.

[flag of convenience]

Non white immigration in large numbers occurred earlier than that, but in rural areas, so not visible in the cities: Chinese migration to the gold rushes in the 1850s, Pacific Islanders to the Queensland canefields from the 1860s, and Indian Sikh migration to northern NSW in the late 1800s. (About 90% of the banana plantations around Coffs Harbour are owned by Sikhs).

Yes they did but under tough laws introduced at the time many of these were forced out of the country and returned home. Those days were not a shinning example of racial harmony sadly.

 

Although I believe a new crop of Sikhs have returned to the plantations over the past decade or so.

[flag of convenience]

Thanks Petals. I had remembered the Afghans but couldn't remember when they started arriving (and they did give their name to the Ghan train!) but I had forgotten about the Japanese pearlers.

There's the famous Japanese cemetary in Broome. Malays were also included in the Broome mix. Today you can find some people with mixed Aboriginal and Malay blood having distinctly Malay names.

[flag of convenience]

Aussies who are three sheets to the wind overseas etc cannot be taken as who Aussies are. Aussies are very closed shop in a lot of cases, stick to the family unit. They may be friends with you for years and still never include you, as that is the way it is. Now this is a generalisation, of course not all Aussies are like this but a lot are. This of course is not only in Aus, depends on Briggs Myers wherever we are. Lots of introverts in Aus.

 

I do believe that Americans are definitely more extroverted though.

Very much so. Not sure Aussies have the same concept of friendship as do Europeans and here I include Brits.

It seems to me a casual meeting and you can be called a friend but no idea of friendship maintainance at all.

A number also tend to collect 'friends' who they feel may be of use to them at some stage.

I find Brits are as a rule far more easier to connect with by than Aussies. Also have more to say . Must be all the emptyness that makes the introverted character so common in Australia.

[Skani]

Yes they did but under tough laws introduced at the time many of these were forced out of the country and returned home. Those days were not a shinning example of racial harmony sadly.

 

Although I believe a new crop of Sikhs have returned to the plantations over the past decade or so.

 

The tough laws were introduced around 1901 but many of the earlier migrants stayed and intermarried and many Australians are descendants - often unknowingly until they start researching their ancestry. Even Cathy Freeman, the much celebrated Aboriginal athlete, has a Chinese migrant ancestor - and also one who was a Dorset dairy farmer :biggrin:

Ricky Ponting, the cricketer, is also supposed to be a descendant of Chinese tin miners in north eastern Tasmania in the 1800s.

 

I spent my early childhood in northern NSW and the area around Woolgoolga was virtually all Sikh in the 1950s.

[Skani]

Very much so. Not sure Aussies have the same concept of friendship as do Europeans and here I include Brits.

It seems to me a casual meeting and you can be called a friend but no idea of friendship maintainance at all.

 

 

????? My Aussie husband died 8 months ago. As his friends collected around I was stunned to realise how many had been enduring friends for 45 years - since their first year at high school together.

[MARYROSE02]

Sorry, but do you mean that Europeans are not the subject of racism.

 

I posted somewhere this week about my daughter's experience in the supermarket in CBD Melbourne, a guy, English came up to her and said "why are all aussie women stupid" her response was "I do not know I am a stupid aussie woman". Now I think he had made an assumption that she was not Australian why have no idea.

 

I think we have to recognise that racism or difference as I like to call it, having actually spent my formative years living in a country with apartheid, affects everyone its just how we read it and how much offence we take.

 

Not at all, Europeans are subject to just as much racism as anybody, it's just not PC to say it.

 

And of course the only problem with apartheid was that it was created by Europeans. The Indians have practised their caste apartheid for centuries, as has the Islamic world with their gender apartheid.

[MARYROSE02]

????? My Aussie husband died 8 months ago. As his friends collected around I was stunned to realise how many had been enduring friends for 45 years - since their first year at high school together.

 

My most enduring friendships have been with Aussies, surviving my twelve-year return to the UK in a way that most of my UK friendships did not survive my coming to Australia.

[MARYROSE02]

I very much agree with this sentiment. Australians do give the impression of discomfort with difference. At times we tend to forget that this is a rather conservative country for better or worse and people prefer things to change slowly if at all.

 

Connecting with locals can be difficult at the best of times even for those of us who look and speak similar let alone those who appear different due to reasons of colour, accent, or clothing etc.

 

There's one thing that is guaranteed to get up an Aussie's nose - be patronising or condescending to them.

 

It may have been conservative up to about the 1950's or even 1960's but now? If I wanted to cause a scene in Sydney I don't know how I would go about it. Walk naked through the streets? I doubt anyone would even notice, too busy talking or texting to even bother to take a photo with their I phones.

 

Thirty years ago I got my first idea that there might be something a bit different about Sydney when I saw the grafitti 'Be Radical - **** the opposite sex!'

[Guest VickyMel]

I am in no way saying that any of what Jininiel has experienced is acceptable but I do think sometimes the problem may not people being racist but not having enough experience and having incorrect assumptions based on preconceptions and insufficient or TV education on the subject.

 

 

I have lived in countries where my skin was a different colour and have had people come up to me and touch or rub my skin or my hair, without asking, because it is different. I have had kids run up and touch me and run away screaming as part of a dare by their mates - and they are screaming in horror as if I have some awful lurgy that is going to get them.

 

One of my colleagues once asked me if my wrist was sick - I had taken my watch off - he was repulsed by the colour of the skin underneath (he said looking at it made him feel sick) and thought I must have some terrible disease.

 

I regularly had people shout across the street at me referring to me by the colour of my skin, some were friends others complete strangers.

 

However, none of these things was meant offensively (well a couple of times they were!) and were not taken by me as such. It was "racist" as I was different and stood out as such, the comments were based on my race or skin colour, and people without much experience of that did not even perceive that I might be potentially be offended.

 

I think that it is important to recognise that there are people everywhere who have not had much experience with other cultures or races and might say things that potentially sound offensive but were never meant to be that way.

 

 

I have also been attacked and threatened with death because of my race - it is out there, but I think that is a different issue again, and I think it is up to all of us to challenge this.

 

 

 

I might also have discussed the depth of colour of Jininiel's sisters skin with them, but out of pure interest and after my experiences in Africa I would have considered it to be polite. Where I was living it was certainly politically correct to notice the variation in skin colour and would have been imploite not to ask about a persons background and origins.

I might add that even among folks with paler coloured skins there is a constant awareness of the massive variation of the depth of colour of skin tone and things like body shape and I'm sure many of us would be able to point out the Swedes and the Italians etc - and might make comments relating to these types of things in conversation.

 

 

 

 

But this still does not take away from Jininiel's personal experiences and the way things are expressed can also give things a very different perspective. You have to feel comfortable and welcome in your community and if I was in similar circumstances I too would be looking for the best for my family and would want to feel comfortable and secure in my community.

 

Don't even get me started on people assuming I am not up to much job wise because I am now an appendage of my OH rather than an independent working female in my own right!

 

 

All the best Jininiel

 

Vicky

[flag of convenience]

There's one thing that is guaranteed to get up an Aussie's nose - be patronising or condescending to them.

 

It may have been conservative up to about the 1950's or even 1960's but now? If I wanted to cause a scene in Sydney I don't know how I would go about it. Walk naked through the streets? I doubt anyone would even notice, too busy talking or texting to even bother to take a photo with their I phones.

 

Thirty years ago I got my first idea that there might be something a bit different about Sydney when I saw the grafitti 'Be Radical - **** the opposite sex!'

 

Not sure why you felt the need to state what gets up an Aussies nose. Although two things not done with much degree of enthusasim or vigour here is speaking up or speaking out.

No one would ever accuse Sydney of being radical these days surely? Certainly not in thought. I am well aware how things were before prior to i'd say the eighties and how much progress has indeed been made in many areas.

Thing being of course is that few places in the world have stood still during that time.

Australia in general is generally thought of as a conservative nation and I have seen little to warrent a change of thinking alone those lines.

Sydney depending on where one lives is a pretty decent city considering many things to be in though.

[flag of convenience]

Not at all, Europeans are subject to just as much racism as anybody, it's just not PC to say it.

 

And of course the only problem with apartheid was that it was created by Europeans. The Indians have practised their caste apartheid for centuries, as has the Islamic world with their gender apartheid.

 

Although in the case of South Africa it was a minority government representing less than 10% of the population lording it over the rest.

 

In India the Caste system is officially illegal but tradition allows its survival.

 

The Islamic world is far from being a cohesive block of nations with the same laws. In Jordon last year I witnessed the women coming in all forms from traditional to very modern and could have easily been european fashion what many wore.

Meanwhlie in Qatar the women for the most part are covered up. While Egypt was somewhere in between.

Saudi Arabia has just given women the vote. Still some work to be done in certain countries but change is coming to that part of the world rather rapidly.

[JoandJon]

MARYROSE02 - I agree exactly with what you said -

 

Australians definitely detest people being patronising or condescending, and unfortunately I've seen many examples of this on some threads, and have to bite my tongue (?fingers?) to stop responding because I'm so annoyed or offended!

[flag of convenience]

MARYROSE02 - I agree exactly with what you said -

 

Australians definitely detest people being patronising or condescending, and unfortunately I've seen many examples of this on some threads, and have to bite my tongue (?fingers?) to stop responding because I'm so annoyed or offended!

 

Have you really? I've looked but failed to notice at all. Although as it's the 'Returning to UK ' thread I guess one shouldn't be too surprised if a few snippets come up from time to time.

[JoandJon]

Lol,

Oh I wasn't actually talking about this thread. Although a small number of the comments here have been patronising, in the scheme of things they are very low down on the scale of offensive compared to some truly horrid comments in other areas.

[flag of convenience]

Lol,

Oh I wasn't actually talking about this thread. Although a small number of the comments here have been patronising, in the scheme of things they are very low down on the scale of offensive compared to some truly horrid comments in other areas.

Oh I see. I do though hear the term patronising put about a bit and wonder what it all really means. Perhaps the message is trying to be conveyed in polite terms as the writer really doesn't care for Australia but the message comes out as patronising. Just a thought.

 

Actually people should say what they mean without being offensive about it so we all know what is meant.

Anyway Australians are known to have skins of old leather,they should be able to take a bit of a ribbing at times, Shouln't they?lol

Anyhow enjoy Melbourne. Canterburry is nice though.

[Paul1Perth]

Actually people should say what they mean without being offensive

 

Easier said than done. What may offend one person may be quite acceptable to the other 1,000 that read it or hear it. That's the problem in a nutshell.

[flag of convenience]

Easier said than done. What may offend one person may be quite acceptable to the other 1,000 that read it or hear it. That's the problem in a nutshell.

You can't please everyone for sure. But then it's peoples right equally to dissent.

[MARYROSE02]

Although in the case of South Africa it was a minority government representing less than 10% of the population lording it over the rest.

 

In India the Caste system is officially illegal but tradition allows its survival.

 

The Islamic world is far from being a cohesive block of nations with the same laws. In Jordon last year I witnessed the women coming in all forms from traditional to very modern and could have easily been european fashion what many wore.

Meanwhlie in Qatar the women for the most part are covered up. While Egypt was somewhere in between.

Saudi Arabia has just given women the vote. Still some work to be done in certain countries but change is coming to that part of the world rather rapidly.

 

The problem was not with the fact that ten per cent lorded it over the rest but that the ten per cent were white. There are a number of countries still where minority tribes/races/castes rule and of course plenty of dictatorships that existed both before and after apartheid and nothing is ever really said about them.

 

That's right about India and the Islamic world. It IS illegal but does that stop the honour killings, the murders of lower castes, female circumcision, legal rapes, death by stoning etc. etc.