Peach Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 My mum has very kindly offered to pay for it so we will be going ahead. I will keep you posted! We will get it done in the next month or so. As my mum and yourself rightly said if it gives a little help towards such an awful situation it is worth it! I would suggest that if anyone else chooses to go ahead to ensure you have a copy left in the UK with a trusted relative. Things are so easily lost in transit! I'm very grateful to my mum, I'd have never even known about this!! If I were your partner I would be mortified and feel conspired against by you and your mother. I would ask your mother to stay out of your marriage.. But that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 If I were your partner I would be mortified and feel conspired against by you and your mother. I would ask your mother to stay out of your marriage.. But that is just me. I think that is a pretty unfair comment. Sally and her partner have discussed this at length and agreed it is a good thing to do. It will help remove some of the stress if heavens forbid things go horrible wrong over here once they arrrive. Mum is simply offering some money to ensure both Sally and her partner feel comfortable knowing there is an agreement in place should things go wrong. The other thing it achieves is to ensure they are both aware before embarking on a move to Aus, just how difficult things can get if the marrage fails and the family court becomes involved. Far better than coming out here knowing nothing about what may happen. Whats that old saying ? For Warned is For Armed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I think that is a pretty unfair comment. Maybe it is an unfair post, but it does accurately describe how I'd feel if my mother-in-law was researching what might go wrong and presenting it to my partner. Once she has created doubt, she stretches it further by offering to pay for what nearly everyone describes as a useless piece of paper. Like I say, I would want my partner to tell her to mind her own, before she starts complaining about the quality of schools or spiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Maybe it is an unfair post, but it does accurately describe how I'd feel if my mother-in-law was researching what might go wrong and presenting it to my partner. Once she has created doubt, she stretches it further by offering to pay for what nearly everyone describes as a useless piece of paper. Like I say, I would want my partner to tell her to mind her own, before she starts complaining about the quality of schools or spiders. I guess i see it differently knowing exactly how Family Court operates in Aus, as I said coming out here not knowing anything about what happens would be far worse and I dont think it is planting a seed of doubt in there marrage. Would you travel overseas with out taking out insurance - just incase ? probably not, it does not say the plane will crash or I will get very sick if I go on that holiday, it is just making yourself aware of risks and making sure you have a back up plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I guess i see it differently knowing exactly how Family Court operates in Aus, as I said coming out here not knowing anything about what happens would be far worse and I dont think it is planting a seed of doubt in there marrage. Would you travel overseas with out taking out insurance - just incase ? probably not, it does not say the plane will crash or I will get very sick if I go on that holiday, it is just making yourself aware of risks and making sure you have a back up plan. Depends where I am travelling too. As the English parent of two dual national kids I certainly didn't lawyer up before making the move, despite knowing of the Hague Convention and the stance of Australian courts. More fool you I guess you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Do not put your head in the sand and pretend non of this would happen to you. Ignorance can cause immense problems. This is such an issue, MAJORITY of people relocating take more time researching a new car and shopping around for the best insurance deals than they do about their own 'insurances' for If something goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Do not put your head in the sand and pretend non of this would happen to you. Ignorance can cause immense problems. This is such an issue, MAJORITY of people relocating take more time researching a new car and shopping around for the best insurance deals than they do about their own 'insurances' for If something goes wrong. So true and really if you have not been or are not going through a very nasty disput with the Family Court you really dont understand how things can change. As you say people shop around for the best insurance deals than the time they take to look at "what if" situations. I am sure most who come over here will have sat down and talked about there plan if they get here and are not happy, they put a plan in place just in case. This is no different. Wonder how many people know that to talk about $200,000 (each) in court fees is pretty normal for a nasty family court case and that case can run into years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I presume you took out prenup agreements before you got married ? BTW Tina it is forewarned is forearmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Parleycross, some people do as I am sure you are aware. Or is this sarcasm? I am confused as to why you are asking this? Prenup is mainly financial - children do not have a price tag. Unless you have been in this situation, it must be rather difficult for you to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was just interested in whether you did ? I just wonder whether it is starting off with such a negative mindset that it becomes self fulfilling. But I can see the sense in it but it is a touchy area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was just interested in whether you did ? I just wonder whether it is starting off with such a negative mindset that it becomes self fulfilling. But I can see the sense in it but it is a touchy area. No such thing when we got married Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Maybe it is an unfair post, but it does accurately describe how I'd feel if my mother-in-law was researching what might go wrong and presenting it to my partner. Once she has created doubt, she stretches it further by offering to pay for what nearly everyone describes as a useless piece of paper. Like I say, I would want my partner to tell her to mind her own, before she starts complaining about the quality of schools or spiders. I guess mothers never stop being mothers. She is not conspiring, she is trying to protect and advise her daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I guess mothers never stop being mothers. She is not conspiring, she is trying to protect and advise her daughter. You say potatotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was just interested in whether you did ? I just wonder whether it is starting off with such a negative mindset that it becomes self fulfilling. But I can see the sense in it but it is a touchy area. I'm not sure that it's a negative mindset but unfortunately relationships do fall apart and migration seems to open up the cracks in often shaky (and some not so shaky) relationships. One would like to think that in the event of a relationship falling apart that child access would be amicable - sadly, it is not and there is a huge difference when one party cannot happily live on the other side of the world for whatever reason but is trapped there by Family Court determinations to when both parties are happy where they are and can easily share access. Like some others here, I've had personal contact with (usually) women who want to return to their established support networks but have been trapped - it generally boils down to an exertion of power and control just because they can and they want their own back for the failed relationship. I daresay none of them ever envisaged the person they loved turning so spiteful and holding them hostage. Honestly, I don't know how one gets around the issue but if someone has even an inkling that their relationship is the slightest bit shaky then I would not be moving to the other side of the world in hopes of that repairing the relationship for it rarely happens. If forewarned then perhaps taking the initiative for early intervention with marriage counselling if things appear to be going haywire might avoid some of the nasty end result spite but I don't know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm not sure that it's a negative mindset but unfortunately relationships do fall apart and migration seems to open up the cracks in often shaky (and some not so shaky) relationships. One would like to think that in the event of a relationship falling apart that child access would be amicable - sadly, it is not and there is a huge difference when one party cannot happily live on the other side of the world for whatever reason but is trapped there by Family Court determinations to when both parties are happy where they are and can easily share access. Like some others here, I've had personal contact with (usually) women who want to return to their established support networks but have been trapped - it generally boils down to an exertion of power and control just because they can and they want their own back for the failed relationship. I daresay none of them ever envisaged the person they loved turning so spiteful and holding them hostage. Honestly, I don't know how one gets around the issue but if someone has even an inkling that their relationship is the slightest bit shaky then I would not be moving to the other side of the world in hopes of that repairing the relationship for it rarely happens. If forewarned then perhaps taking the initiative for early intervention with marriage counselling if things appear to be going haywire might avoid some of the nasty end result spite but I don't know! So well put Quoll, you nailed it when you say one partner is held hostage. The sadest thing of all is that there are kids in the middle of all this, and even if one partner is trying to make the seperation better if the other side is angry and determind to punish the other partner well thats when things get really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 But I can see the sense in it but it is a touchy area. It is indeed a touchy area and that is why people get caught out. Couples think they have everything covered by having a verbal agreement about how they will deal with things if it goes t*ts up, but the truth is, those verbal agreements stand for nothing. I expect for the majority, those verbal agreements are kept, but for the minority where they're not, that's when things get hard. It's not just the expense I talk about either, it's the mental and psychological trauma. Can you imagine going somewhere thinking you can go home again, only to find that once you'd got there that actually wasn't true (unless of course you are prepared to turn your back on your children and walk away from them forever.) Try and liken this legal document to a bank loan! If you wanted to borrow £1000 from your bank and you had every intention of paying it back, you had a good credit history, never been overdrawn, were basically very trustworthy from the bank's point of view, you still wouldn't expect to borrow it without a loan agreement drawn up would you? You'd sign the agreement knowing full well you would repay the money - and then you go and repay the money. The legal document was drawn up for an agreement, but because you didn't default on the loan the legal document was never needed for use in court so that the bank could get their money back. If a couple get a legally recognised agreement drawn up in advance that clearly states they will return to their home country with the kids if the move goes wrong, or if one of them decides they want to stay on alone after all then the other parent can return home with the kids, what's wrong with that? If all goes well, the agreement won't need to be referred to, but if it doesn't - well, just like the person who defaults on a bank loan, there is some legal action that can be enforced. Having been through this situation I would now never get married without a pre-nup. From my point of view, a future husband would never have to refer to it because I'm a woman of my word and would have no qualms signing a pre-nup because I wouldn't rip anyone off. If it gave him peace of mind that I am a woman of my word then that's fine by me. IMO, it's people who do have ulterior motives that are reluctant to sign such things because that means they then have to legally abide by them. In the case of Sally, whose mum has agreed to pay the legal costs, I know that she and her husband are in full agreement to sign this document together as proof of their verbal agreement. As far as I am aware, they are the first couple to do this, and I believe it's as a result of stories like those described on this thread that they've taken heed and done something about it to give them both peace of mind. I hope that more follow suit, because the dangers of this thread is that it will give devious minded people a whole lot of knowledge how they can lure a partner to another country under false pretences and promises, knowing full well that once they get them and the children there then there's nothing that the reluctant partner can do about it, unless of course, they are prepared to take on the trauma and expense of a Relocation Order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Rachel, I wonder how many people are aware of the restrictions of the Family Court ? Want to go on hoilday even interstate in Aus, no can do with out the approval of the other partner. Want to apply for a new job, cheaper housing even a couple of hours away, no can do with out approval or as you say unless you leave the children behind. Want to book them into a school you like - no can do same reasons, the list is exstensive, and as i have said if one partner is angry then the laws of the family court allows that partner to make the other person live in the same place until the last child turns 18, there is no requirement for either partner to be reasonable in traveling to see there kids not even an hour up the road. All these rules do is make the situation worse as resentment sets in. So to sit down and have an in depth talk about the - what if's is a very sensible thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasepom Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'm in that boat. Wife pushed us into going back to England which turned into one unholy disaster. Wanted to come back to Australia straight away. Now I find myself back here on my own looking for work in tough times, having thrown everything away that we'd worked hard for. So stupid, if only we could have seen what would happen, we would all have just stayed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'm in that boat. Wife pushed us into going back to England which turned into one unholy disaster. Wanted to come back to Australia straight away. Now I find myself back here on my own looking for work in tough times, having thrown everything away that we'd worked hard for. So stupid, if only we could have seen what would happen, we would all have just stayed here. i am so sorry to hear that, perhaps if you had seen this thread before going to Aus you may have been able to make plans for the "what ifs" I hope you are getting to see your kids and that in time you can put your life back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hi everyone.... I have already posted the note below in the 'Moving Back to the UK' section but was advised that I might have more luck attaching to this thread. Would be great to get some advice from anyone who can help.. [h=2]The Hague Convention; Child Abduction - Who has been through this....[/h] Hi everyone.... I have read through the various threads on the forum about The Hague Convention as it relates to Child Abduction and understand the process involved but would really like to speak with anyone who's been through it. Particularly interested in time-scales, support and effect on the children. Unfortunately it looks like I will be heading down this route now as my wife has taken our children to the UK under the ruse of her mother having had a heart attack. After two weeks of little or no contact and my own calls to the hospital having confirmed that there had been no emergency she told me this morning that she is not coming back. A lawyer in the UK has apparently told here that she has a good case and is willing to 'help' her (by help I think they mean charge) There has been no physical or psychological abuse and I had thought things had improved somewhat but clearly this wasn't the case.... Really hoping I can get some information from some of you. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer to keep it private. I'm still in shock and more than a little lost and scared of what lies ahead..... Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Very sorry to hear that mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 My mum has very kindly offered to pay for it so we will be going ahead. I will keep you posted! We will get it done in the next month or so. As my mum and yourself rightly said if it gives a little help towards such an awful situation it is worth it! I would suggest that if anyone else chooses to go ahead to ensure you have a copy left in the UK with a trusted relative. Things are so easily lost in transit! I'm very grateful to my mum, I'd have never even known about this!! So does your memorandum of understanding just suggest you should be able to return to the UK with your children if your husband wants to stay in Aus - or does it also allow your husband to return with them if you decide to stay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hi everyone.... I have already posted the note below in the 'Moving Back to the UK' section but was advised that I might have more luck attaching to this thread. Would be great to get some advice from anyone who can help.. The Hague Convention; Child Abduction - Who has been through this.... Hi everyone.... I have read through the various threads on the forum about The Hague Convention as it relates to Child Abduction and understand the process involved but would really like to speak with anyone who's been through it. Particularly interested in time-scales, support and effect on the children. Unfortunately it looks like I will be heading down this route now as my wife has taken our children to the UK under the ruse of her mother having had a heart attack. After two weeks of little or no contact and my own calls to the hospital having confirmed that there had been no emergency she told me this morning that she is not coming back. A lawyer in the UK has apparently told here that she has a good case and is willing to 'help' her (by help I think they mean charge) There has been no physical or psychological abuse and I had thought things had improved somewhat but clearly this wasn't the case.... Really hoping I can get some information from some of you. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer to keep it private. I'm still in shock and more than a little lost and scared of what lies ahead..... Thanks in advance I'm very sorry to hear of this. I can imagine that you are feeling very shaken by what's happened. Were you aware that your wife wanted to return to live in the UK and when she came to see her "sick" mother, were you aware that she wouldn't return to Australia or did she buy return tickets. You need to consult a family law solicitor asap, if only to try to thrash out contact and visits with your children. Don't leave this but let your children know that you DO want them. Are you prepared to move back to the UK? Is your marriage over or do you still want to try to make things work? These are things that you need to consider. The Courts can work slowly at times, especially if the other side drag their feet and you need to make sure that you establish contact with your children as a matter of urgency. Please seek legal advice xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hi everyone.... I have already posted the note below in the 'Moving Back to the UK' section but was advised that I might have more luck attaching to this thread. Would be great to get some advice from anyone who can help.. The Hague Convention; Child Abduction - Who has been through this.... Hi everyone.... I have read through the various threads on the forum about The Hague Convention as it relates to Child Abduction and understand the process involved but would really like to speak with anyone who's been through it. Particularly interested in time-scales, support and effect on the children. Unfortunately it looks like I will be heading down this route now as my wife has taken our children to the UK under the ruse of her mother having had a heart attack. After two weeks of little or no contact and my own calls to the hospital having confirmed that there had been no emergency she told me this morning that she is not coming back. A lawyer in the UK has apparently told here that she has a good case and is willing to 'help' her (by help I think they mean charge) There has been no physical or psychological abuse and I had thought things had improved somewhat but clearly this wasn't the case.... Really hoping I can get some information from some of you. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer to keep it private. I'm still in shock and more than a little lost and scared of what lies ahead..... Thanks in advance I'm so sorry to hear that this has happened to you - your wife probably hasn't read this thread or she would have realized that absconding with the kids is doomed to fail. However, it sounds like communication between you must've fallen down a bit or were you genuinely unaware of the depths of her feelings that caused her to take such a drastic step? You could try the cheaper option first rather than pouring tens of thousands into some fat cat lawyers Porche fund - can you take leave, fly over and engage in marriage counselling perhaps and try and negotiate a compromise that suits you both? If that doesn't work then recourse to the law may be your only way if you are not prepared to let your kids go. Either way you both need to be scrupulous and not engage the kids as pawns in all this - unless there can be some compromise there will be bitterness. Good Luck, I don't envy you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 So sorry to here this - the law is on your side but you may have a long and painful battle ahead. I honestly think your best option right now is to take some leave and go to where your wife and children are - I don't know how old they are but if they are at an age where they can understand then they need to know from your actions not just your words that they are the priority. As MTT says there are some tough questions you have to answer for yourself - do you want to try and save your marriage? Enough to move back to the UK if that's what your wife wants? Do you really want to force your wife back to Australia by applying the Hague Convention? Where do your children want to be? Would that be the same if their mother has been forced to live there? If your wife refused to returned are you willing (& able) to be a single parent in Australia? Would that be in the best interests of your children? Your heart is breaking right now and I would urge you to tread gently - there is nothing your wife can do that you cannot respond to at a later date with the same outcome, if you respond with heavy threats and lawyers however it may reduce the chance of any kind of negotiated outcome. I hope you have some good friends around you right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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