Unsure whether to go or not

[cg9456]

Hey all,

So my partner and I (both in late 20s) recently got 190 visas for Victoria. My job is a secondary school teacher, partner an accountant.

Since the visa was approved, I have become so unsure as to whether I want to go or stay. We have a dog, so the idea of going for a year and then coming back if we don't like it becomes a bit more complicated as I don't want to put our pet through the ordeal of flying back and forth.

We recently did a roadtrip around Europe and I realised that (1) I do want to leave the UK, but (2) I only applied for Australia due to Brexit and the limited options we face moving abroad now. I have contemplated applying for International schools in Europe, but those positions are extremely competitive (I have tried previously). This is a shame as I really love Europe - the cultures, the cities, the proximity to family and friends...

My partner and I have planned to do a "soft landing" to Australia so we don't lose our visas, but I guess I am looking for some reality-check feedback on what Australia is like for those who were hesitant to go? I know many would kill for our position and we are so lucky to have these visas, but I can't help but feel that I truly want to relocate to somewhere else in Europe. Then again, Australia is English-speaking and would maybe make more long-term sense...? Feeling lost, unsure, frustrated and scared.

 

[Marisawright]

Everyone is different.  I love my life in Australia (I've lived here over 30 years), and I have never once missed the UK.  The ONE thing I have always missed, is the ability to visit Europe.   While in theory, I could have afforded an annual holiday to Europe, it didn't happen in practice. Factor in the 2 days at each end for the journey, plus jet lag, and it's really not worth going for less than 3-4 weeks, and as soon as you decide you're going to Europe, you realise you can't fly all that way without visiting family and friends...and before you know it, you've spent the whole holiday with the folks and not seen Europe at all.  I used to go every 2 years, for 6 weeks, and always booked a European visit for the last week so I couldn't get sucked in by family hospitality.

A dog complicates things, of course.  If you want an annual or biennial trip to Europe for 4 to 6 weeks, does the dog go into kennels? 

I'd say what you need to do, is make that "soft landing" a month-long holiday, if you can.  Don't use it to see the sights (after all, if you decide to move, you'll have the rest of your life to see all those places).  Use it to see what it feels like to live here -- maybe a couple of weeks in Sydney and a couple in Melbourne, since those are the cities you fancy.

Sydney and Melbourne feel quite European to me.  They both had massive influxes of European migrants after World War II (which is why we all drink coffee, not tea). At one time, Melbourne was the second-largest Greek city in the world (after Athens). The food is much more European than British, too.  However once you get out into the country, things feel much more old-fashioned and conservative. 

You mention family and friends.  The biggest reason people go home is that they're missing family and friends.  The reality is that you're going to see them less than once a year.  They may say they'll visit but they probably won't, because of the cost and time involved. So it will be up to you and for the reasons mentioned above, you may not be able to visit that often. 

[Jon the Hat]

Unless the dog is very old I wouldn't worry about flight stress.  I reckon they just go to sleep after the first half hour.

[rammygirl]

Having said that. Relocating is very expensive and moving pets costs thousands. 

[Quoll]

If you are unsure, dont do it.  

We may speak English but we are still a foreign country and you can basically kiss goodbye to family and friends.  As Marisa has said, the "its only 24 hours" thing is a furphy - it's 24 hours plus airport time and getting to the airport time, plus jet lagged time, plus many thousands of dollars for even a bog standard fare.  If you are OK with leaving family, missing births, deaths, marriages (unless you get to be very rich and can manage to put the pup into kennels) then go for it.  Be prepared to be flexible about where you might get a job - although teachers are leaving in their droves, it's still generally that the nicer the place the more teachers there are to fill the roles - you might not get Melbourne or if you do it could be in one of those schools that nobody else wants to teach in, you could find yourself offered something at Woop Woop hours away from Melbourne.  Come for a holiday and check out Victoria which has sponsored you.

[BendigoBoy]

6 minutes ago, Quoll said:

If you are unsure, dont do it.  

We may speak English but we are still a foreign country and you can basically kiss goodbye to family and friends.  As Marisa has said, the "its only 24 hours" thing is a furphy - it's 24 hours plus airport time and getting to the airport time, plus jet lagged time, plus many thousands of dollars for even a bog standard fare.  If you are OK with leaving family, missing births, deaths, marriages (unless you get to be very rich and can manage to put the pup into kennels) then go for it.  Be prepared to be flexible about where you might get a job - although teachers are leaving in their droves, it's still generally that the nicer the place the more teachers there are to fill the roles - you might not get Melbourne or if you do it could be in one of those schools that nobody else wants to teach in, you could find yourself offered something at Woop Woop hours away from Melbourne.  Come for a holiday and check out Victoria which has sponsored you.

Depends on your subject, as well.  I've a couple of mates who are teachers up here in Bendigo.  They're crying out for STEM teachers up here: and a teacher's wage will go a lot further in terms of a decent home here than even the outer suburbs of Melbourne.

I always get the "Oh, my goodness!  You're up in Bendigo, what a long way for you to come" when I nip into Melbourne for an arvo or a show.  It's less than 2 hours on the train.  The train's less than $10 return.  And I'll be in and back faster at rush hour than a lot of folk who spend a fortune to live in the outer suburbs and commute in.

Just wish the council would yield up some money to me for promoting the place so damned much, to be honest...

Also, Omari at the Botanical Gardens up here does an absolutely cracking brekky beside the little pond they have.

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

If you are unsure, dont do it.  

We may speak English but we are still a foreign country and you can basically kiss goodbye to family and friends.  As Marisa has said, the "its only 24 hours" thing is a furphy - it's 24 hours plus airport time and getting to the airport time, plus jet lagged time, plus many thousands of dollars for even a bog standard fare.  If you are OK with leaving family, missing births, deaths, marriages (unless you get to be very rich and can manage to put the pup into kennels) then go for it.  Be prepared to be flexible about where you might get a job - although teachers are leaving in their droves, it's still generally that the nicer the place the more teachers there are to fill the roles - you might not get Melbourne or if you do it could be in one of those schools that nobody else wants to teach in, you could find yourself offered something at Woop Woop hours away from Melbourne.  Come for a holiday and check out Victoria which has sponsored you.

Agree.  If you're not sure don't do it.  

[Drumbeat]

What are the reasons you applied for the visa and do they still apply? I would wait and see how you both feel when you visit - you might decide to come for a few years as an adventure.

If you do decide to move could you leave your dog with family for a while until you are settled? And with regards to care for your dog when you go on holiday many Australians (ourselves included) have housesitters stay to care for the pets and house while they travel at no cost.

Try to keep an open mind until you have visited.

[Marisawright]

@cg9456,  I'm confused why you're not going to Europe, which is where you really want to be?   If your partner is Lithuanian, then there are no barriers to you settling in any EU country you like.  Brexit makes no difference to you, because you're the partner of an EU citizen. 

I appreciate that it'll be difficult to get a job as a secondary school teacher in Europe, but you could offer tutoring in your subject and in English, and perhaps consider other jobs.  Once you are residing in a city, you'll have the advantage when applying for international schools in that city so eventually you could land one of those jobs.  

I guess it comes down to what's more important to you. My advice would be, activate your Australian visa, then move somewhere in Europe and try it out for a few years.  Once activated, you've got almost 5 years before you have to make a move to Australia.

Of course you could do it the other way:  give Australia a try for a few years, then if it doesn't work out, come back to Europe.  However, that's going to be a much more expensive way of doing it -- even taking into account possible periods of unemployment or under-employment if you try Europe first. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

5 hours ago, BendigoBoy said:

Depends on your subject, as well.  I've a couple of mates who are teachers up here in Bendigo.  They're crying out for STEM teachers up here: and a teacher's wage will go a lot further in terms of a decent home here than even the outer suburbs of Melbourne.

I always get the "Oh, my goodness!  You're up in Bendigo, what a long way for you to come" when I nip into Melbourne for an arvo or a show.  It's less than 2 hours on the train.  The train's less than $10 return.  And I'll be in and back faster at rush hour than a lot of folk who spend a fortune to live in the outer suburbs and commute in.

Just wish the council would yield up some money to me for promoting the place so damned much, to be honest...

Also, Omari at the Botanical Gardens up here does an absolutely cracking brekky beside the little pond they have.

You forgot to mention the Bendigo Woollen Mills - it's the reason anyone with any interest in textiles would go and live in Bendigo!  I remember talking to the chap in the bookshop a while ago and he was a cricket fanatic - he said Bendigo was great for access to cricket though I cannot vouch for that LOL.  I'm rather partial to the breakfast offerings at the Boardwalk!

[BendigoBoy]

Just now, Quoll said:

You forgot to mention the Bendigo Woollen Mills - it's the reason anyone with any interest in textiles would go and live in Bendigo!  I remember talking to the chap in the bookshop a while ago and he was a cricket fanatic - he said Bendigo was great for access to cricket though I cannot vouch for that LOL.  I'm rather partial to the breakfast offerings at the Boardwalk!

Ah, my wife is very partial to picking up yarn at the Woollen Mills; and it's nice for a wander around, too.  

There are a few good ovals up here, that's very true.  Fair bit of everything sportswise for those so inclined, to be honest, mate.

Oh, I'm with you on the Boardwalk.  Andy & Co rock up some mean numbers there.  That brisket benedict they've had on recently has been top banana.

[cg9456]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

@cg9456,  I'm confused why you're not going to Europe, which is where you really want to be?   If your partner is Lithuanian, then there are no barriers to you settling in any EU country you like.  Brexit makes no difference to you, because you're the partner of an EU citizen. 

I appreciate that it'll be difficult to get a job as a secondary school teacher in Europe, but you could offer tutoring in your subject and in English, and perhaps consider other jobs.  Once you are residing in a city, you'll have the advantage when applying for international schools in that city so eventually you could land one of those jobs.  

I guess it comes down to what's more important to you. My advice would be, activate your Australian visa, then move somewhere in Europe and try it out for a few years.  Once activated, you've got almost 5 years before you have to make a move to Australia.

Of course you could do it the other way:  give Australia a try for a few years, then if it doesn't work out, come back to Europe.  However, that's going to be a much more expensive way of doing it -- even taking into account possible periods of unemployment or under-employment if you try Europe first. 

My partner isn’t Lithuanian - did I maybe make a typo somewhere? I can apply for international schools but the positions are extremely extremely competitive. 

[Toots]

1 hour ago, cg9456 said:

My partner isn’t Lithuanian - did I maybe make a typo somewhere? I can apply for international schools but the positions are extremely extremely competitive. 

I think Marisa has you muddled up with another poster who had a query very recently.

[BendigoBoy]

Good shout, @Toots

That'd be this one here. 

 

Well, if it's Oz or Blighty... there's a hard 'un.

 

[Marisawright]

42 minutes ago, Toots said:

I think Marisa has you muddled up with another poster who had a query very recently.

You're right, I beg your pardon @cg9456

[DrDougster]

You'll get a lot of conflicting opinions but I would say definitely move from the UK. I love our life in Aus.

Don't take this personally, it is not directed at you as an individual: I'm always amazed by the dog in people's lives. I find it so odd that it's become socially acceptable to develop and cage an animal and then act like it's your "best friend" and, in this instance, let it cage you. There is no rational decision regarding the dog. That ship has sailed.

[InnerVoice]

@cg9456 firstly congratulations on your visa, which is a real achievement given how competitive it is these days.

With the exception of botched bank robberies and parachute jumps that didn't go according to plan, we generally regret the things we didn't do in life rather than what we did. Imagine how you might feel a few years from now if you're still stuck in the drudgery of UK life, looking out the window at that endless slate-grey sky, and knowing that you had a fantastic opportunity to escape all of that but you didn't take it? Yes, you may come here and find it isn't for you, but unless you try you'll never know. If you're really unsure, you could always rent your house out (assuming you're a homeowner), and find someone to look after the dog until you feel settled so at least you don't end up having to ship him/her both ways. I understand that people are very attached to their pets, but they shouldn't be an incumbrance when it comes to making life-changing decisions.

I'm also a secondary school teacher and have been teaching in the Australian state school system for over a decade. It certainly has its challenges, and I don't think that student behaviour is any better here than it is in the UK. Working conditions are definitely better though - we teach less hours for more money for a start, and schools are generally better resourced. Until recently you'd have probably found yourself having to go to the back beyond to do 'country service' for 3 years before you could get transferred to a school in a metropolitan area, but there is currently such a huge shortage of teachers you can pretty much write your own ticket these days. However, as others have mentioned the upside of being in a regional location is that housing costs are far more affordable, and if you're in a remote location you might even be entitled to free housing. It's also worth noting that around two thirds of Australian schools are state run while the other third are Catholic or independent schools, where working conditions are usually much better (although the pay is about the same).

I understand the desire to live in mainland Europe because that's something I've always wanted to do. My plan is to move there for the first part of my retirement (while hopefully I'm still in good health), and then return to Australia for the twilight years. I have no intention of working there though as I know the challenges I'd face. Even taking my age out of the equation, there's the language barrier and the fact that many European countries have unemployment rates far higher than the UK and Australia. In the worst case scenario that you really don't like it here, you could think of your Australian experience as a career stepping-stone. International schools value overseas experience very highly because they know you're able to adapt to teaching in a new system, and adjust to living in a different country. It immediately puts you ahead of candidates who only have UK experience. Europe will still be there in five years time if that's what you really want to do, but the opportunity to move to Australia will no longer be on the table. Having gone to all the time, trouble and expense of getting your visas I think you'd be crazy not to give it a whirl, but if you're still feeling really uncertain then head over for a recce first like others have suggested.

Edited November 30, 2023 by InnerVoice