Working as a mental health nurse

[Ken]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Wow that sounds crazy.  I know you can salary sacrifice for a mortgage, but the employer pays the money directly to the lender.   If the money gets sacrificed and then gets paid to the employee, then the employee could go and spend it on anything, surely?  I'm curious if @Ken has heard of this.

Yes, the employer pays to a third party salary sacrifice company (such as RemServ). The salary sacrifice company then distributes the amount and in some cases (in theory they should have evidence that the employee has spent the money on allowable expenses) this involves them transferring it to the employee tax free. For most people there is only a very narrow range of things you can salary sacrifice for, but if you work in the Healthcare or Charity sector (and your employer allows it) there's a very wide range you can salary sacrifice for including ordinary living expenses so it's almost impossible for the employee not to have spent the maximum (which varies by industry but is $9,010 for public hospitals) on allowable expenses.

[Ken]

2 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Sounds good, I don't actually have any salary sacrifices at my job at the moment but had considered getting a lease car through my healthcare trust. The problem is it lowers your pay by the amount sacrificed and so lowers your pension. Is that the case here so you'd have less money going to super? 

A few years ago (I can't remember which year) they changed the rules so that employers have to pay Super on your full salary including any amounts you sacrifice. Before that employers could (and often did) only pay Super on the amount left after salary sacrifice.

[RubyMonday]

1 hour ago, Ken said:

A few years ago (I can't remember which year) they changed the rules so that employers have to pay Super on your full salary including any amounts you sacrifice. Before that employers could (and often did) only pay Super on the amount left after salary sacrifice.

Makes a good change from having to pay out of my salary for pension and getting a lower amount if I want to salary sacrifice. So if I get $85,000 wage the 11% would be based on that even if I sacrifice $5000 of it to take my wage down to $80,000 for tax purposes?

[InnerVoice]

14 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Sounds like a much better system that works in the employees favour rather than penalising. I'd rather pay for things along the way than have to wait on the tax return. 

I recall that in the UK you can't claim for very much in terms of expenses if you're on PAYE - our system here is a lot more generous.

As you approach 60 it's worth considering making post-tax contributions into your super, if you can afford to do so. My marginal rate of tax (the top rate I pay) is 37%, whereas the concessional rate of tax on super contributions is only 15%, so if I put $1,000 into my super fund $150 is deducted, but I can claim $370 back at tax-time. It's a no-brainer for anyone approaching 60 who has some disposable income..

[InnerVoice]

14 hours ago, Drumbeat said:

No it was salary sacrifice, I worked for WA Health so no expenses for me . You could also put money on an Entertainment Card for dining out, my friends did this but I never bothered.

13 hours ago, Ken said:

Yes, the employer pays to a third party salary sacrifice company (such as RemServ). The salary sacrifice company then distributes the amount and in some cases (in theory they should have evidence that the employee has spent the money on allowable expenses) this involves them transferring it to the employee tax free. For most people there is only a very narrow range of things you can salary sacrifice for, but if you work in the Healthcare or Charity sector (and your employer allows it) there's a very wide range you can salary sacrifice for including ordinary living expenses so it's almost impossible for the employee not to have spent the maximum (which varies by industry but is $9,010 for public hospitals) on allowable expenses.

Wow, what a great perk! 

Edited July 4, 2023 by InnerVoice

[InnerVoice]

On 03/07/2023 at 22:33, Jibba said:

Overall work life balance is great. They very much factor personal leave into your allowances - there's no shaming culture like there tends to be in the UK when you take a sick day or some carer's leave. The pay is significantly better too but the cost of living is very high here at the moment. Still, I have always lived very comfortably here and I doubt I would be if I was working for the NHS right now.

The concept of 'the great Australian sickie' was something it took me a while to get my head around, although I'm totally on board with it these days. There's no stigma about taking a day off for whatever reason, and I'm sure anyone working in health care needs a 'mental health day' every now and then, just as we do in teaching. I think the main reason is that sick days come out of your annual allowance over here, so effectively the employee is paying for them, whereas in the UK the employer generally foots the bill when staff are off.

[Marisawright]

54 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

 I think the main reason is that sick days come out of your annual allowance over here, so effectively the employee is paying for them, whereas in the UK the employer generally foots the bill when staff are off.

Yes, and it still amazes me that so many people casually 'take a sickie', when you only get 10 days' sick leave per year.    I suppose people think they're bullet-proof and are never going to get really sick!    I remember, soon after I arrived in Australia, when one of the men in our office had a car accident and was off work for 6 weeks.  He was a young lad who'd been known for taking post-party sickies, and the result was that he got no sick pay at all for those 6 weeks.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Marisawright

[Ken]

14 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Makes a good change from having to pay out of my salary for pension and getting a lower amount if I want to salary sacrifice. So if I get $85,000 wage the 11% would be based on that even if I sacrifice $5000 of it to take my wage down to $80,000 for tax purposes?

Yes that's right. Just watch though that when they say $85,000 they mean $85,000 plus Super and not $85,000 including Super as some unscrupulous employers are known to do in their adverts.

[InnerVoice]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, and it still amazes me that so many people casually 'take a sickie', when you only get 10 days' sick leave per year.    I suppose people think they're bullet-proof and are never going to get really sick!    I remember, soon after I arrived in Australia, when one of the men in our office had a car accident and was off work for 6 weeks.  He was a young lad who'd been known for taking post-party sickies, and the result was that he got no sick pay at all for those 6 weeks.

I always keep at least a week on hand, although I have a couple of weeks at the moment. The longest I've ever taken off in one go was 7 working days when I got covid, but I appreciate that if one succumbed to a serious medical illness or accident then they'd be out of pocket. Financially I've got a decent buffer behind me and it's a risk I'm prepared to take for the benefit of having a better work/life balance. I don't take days off for fishing trips or jollies - usually it's to get through all the bloomin' admin I can't get through at the weekends!

The irony is that many people retire with tonnes of sick leave built up which never gets used, only to suffer a serious illness a couple of years into retirement. 

[Marisawright]

16 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

I always keep at least a week on hand, although I have a couple of weeks at the moment. The longest I've ever taken off in one go was 7 working days when I got covid, but I appreciate that if one succumbed to a serious medical illness or accident then they'd be out of pocket. Financially I've got a decent buffer behind me and it's a risk I'm prepared to take for the benefit of having a better work/life balance.

But why not just take a day of your annual leave?  

[Quoll]

2 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

The concept of 'the great Australian sickie' was something it took me a while to get my head around, although I'm totally on board with it these days. There's no stigma about taking a day off for whatever reason, and I'm sure anyone working in health care needs a 'mental health day' every now and then, just as we do in teaching. I think the main reason is that sick days come out of your annual allowance over here, so effectively the employee is paying for them, whereas in the UK the employer generally foots the bill when staff are off.

I never got my head around the sickie abuse - came as quite a shock when I enquired after a colleague's health only to be told he was building his bbq. I thought about taking one once but, as it happened, the day in question turned to sh!t very shortly after I got up so it was actually a sick day - culminated in me falling out of bed and breaking 2 fingers but the rest of the day before that was one thing after the other! But on the plus side I had plenty up my sleeve for an op that had quite a long recovery time and I never took a "sickie" for the rest of my career. 

[Jon the Hat]

One of my team built up a substantial sick/carers leave balance over 16 years, which has meant he could be a great support to his wife who has been having cancer treatment for the past year.  In that context, wasting it for a day off here and there seems pretty silly.

[InnerVoice]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

But why not just take a day of your annual leave?  

Because I'm a teacher, so I don't get to choose when I take time off.

And I know I've just laid myself wide open to criticism given the 13 weeks paid holiday we get (which is actually 11.5 weeks in Australia), but then it's not uncommon for me to spend the entire weekend working, so a sickie on a Monday or Friday takes the sting out of it. In my defence I'm the second-oldest teacher in our school and while I've been there I've seen the wheels drop off many a younger waggon, so I guess I must be doing something right.

[Toots]

4 hours ago, Quoll said:

I never got my head around the sickie abuse - came as quite a shock when I enquired after a colleague's health only to be told he was building his bbq. I thought about taking one once but, as it happened, the day in question turned to sh!t very shortly after I got up so it was actually a sick day - culminated in me falling out of bed and breaking 2 fingers but the rest of the day before that was one thing after the other! But on the plus side I had plenty up my sleeve for an op that had quite a long recovery time and I never took a "sickie" for the rest of my career. 

I also rarely needed to use a sick day.  Never seemed to get sick BUT like you I had plenty of sick days banked which I used when I also needed an operation and had time off to recover and I even had some left over after that.

[RubyMonday]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, and it still amazes me that so many people casually 'take a sickie', when you only get 10 days' sick leave per year.    I suppose people think they're bullet-proof and are never going to get really sick!    I remember, soon after I arrived in Australia, when one of the men in our office had a car accident and was off work for 6 weeks.  He was a young lad who'd been known for taking post-party sickies, and the result was that he got no sick pay at all for those 6 weeks.

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! That’s terrible. With the NHS it’s 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. I’ve only been off sick for a week in the last 6 years so it’s not that I need it but it’s nice to know it’s there. Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

Edit: So actually is it 10 days per year but if you don’t use them then they build? So I would have had 60 days minus the 4 shifts  so still left with 56 days?

Edited July 5, 2023 by RubyMonday

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, RubyMonday said:

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! ... Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

It's been that way ever since I arrived in Australia, i.e. almost 40 years, so not likely to change.  A lot of people take out Income Protection Insurance.

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, RubyMonday said:

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! That’s terrible. With the NHS it’s 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. I’ve only been off sick for a week in the last 6 years so it’s not that I need it but it’s nice to know it’s there. Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

Edit: So actually is it 10 days per year but if you don’t use them then they build? So I would have had 60 days minus the 4 shifts  so still left with 56 days?

Yep, sick leave accrues. So if you work for 20 years and never take a day off you've got 200 days sick leave entitlement.

[Parley]

38 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Yep, sick leave accrues. So if you work for 20 years and never take a day off you've got 200 days sick leave entitlement.

Which is worthless when you retire or leave.

Some large companies moves away from the concept of accruing annual leave like this in favour of just letting people take sick leave when they need it based on trust.

[Parley]

2 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! That’s terrible. With the NHS it’s 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. I’ve only been off sick for a week in the last 6 years so it’s not that I need it but it’s nice to know it’s there. Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

Edit: So actually is it 10 days per year but if you don’t use them then they build? So I would have had 60 days minus the 4 shifts  so still left with 56 days?

Maybe that is why the NHS is going broke.

Private companies probably aren't going to be so generous. But you can take out income insurance which will cover you if you are unable to work for a significant period of time.

[Toots]

11 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! That’s terrible. With the NHS it’s 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. I’ve only been off sick for a week in the last 6 years so it’s not that I need it but it’s nice to know it’s there. Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

Edit: So actually is it 10 days per year but if you don’t use them then they build? So I would have had 60 days minus the 4 shifts  so still left with 56 days?

6 months seems a bit over the top.  Does that encourage bludging?  Maybe working for the health service here is more generous than for the rest of us though.

[Blue Flu]

10 hours ago, Parley said:

Maybe that is why the NHS is going broke.

Private companies probably aren't going to be so generous. But you can take out income insurance which will cover you if you are unable to work for a significant period of time.

Or try NHS employing agency nurses at vastly highly rates for starters. 

[Blue Flu]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It's been that way ever since I arrived in Australia, i.e. almost 40 years, so not likely to change.  A lot of people take out Income Protection Insurance.

I think it has changed. It was a right of passage in the eighties and fully expected to be used. These times, more agencies, at least are demanding accountability. Two days or more requires a doctors cert or at least a statutory dec. If workers are felt to be taking excessive leave due to ill health, the company can insist on that worker seeing a doctor appointed by the company. 

[Blue Flu]

13 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! That’s terrible. With the NHS it’s 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. I’ve only been off sick for a week in the last 6 years so it’s not that I need it but it’s nice to know it’s there. Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

Edit: So actually is it 10 days per year but if you don’t use them then they build? So I would have had 60 days minus the 4 shifts  so still left with 56 days?

10 days is rather normal in the Australian context. Unpaid leave after that, if all annual leave used up. 

[Ken]

14 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Only 10 days sick leave per year!! That’s terrible. With the NHS it’s 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. I’ve only been off sick for a week in the last 6 years so it’s not that I need it but it’s nice to know it’s there. Is there any plans to increase that or are people just ok with it?

Edit: So actually is it 10 days per year but if you don’t use them then they build? So I would have had 60 days minus the 4 shifts  so still left with 56 days?

The NHS has such large amounts of sick leave due to the large numbers of workplace injuries (e.g. people straining their backs trying to lift patients). In Australia workplace injuries are covered by what is normally referred to as "Workers Comp" which is a compulsory employer insurance scheme overseen by state governments and pays an income to those recovering from workplace injuries.

[Toots]

28 minutes ago, Ken said:

The NHS has such large amounts of sick leave due to the large numbers of workplace injuries (e.g. people straining their backs trying to lift patients). In Australia workplace injuries are covered by what is normally referred to as "Workers Comp" which is a compulsory employer insurance scheme overseen by state governments and pays an income to those recovering from workplace injuries.

I forgot all about workers comp.  One of my co-workers had a carpal tunnel op and workers comp looked after her treatment and time off work.